I know, the end of the games does get a little ponderous.Anyways, I’m done with the NBA for a while. Fuck Kyrie and fuck his friends, too.
I know, the end of the games does get a little ponderous.Anyways, I’m done with the NBA for a while. Fuck Kyrie and fuck his friends, too.
HOU has the right to trade picks with them, I believe.The Nets are 1-5 with Kyrie and his idiocy. How much worse will they get without him? This team isn’t winning shit. Cut Kyrie, trade Durant and go into tank mode for Webanyama.
Don't assume the business and basketball decisions are all that far apart. From a basketball perspective, Kyrie is in the final year of his deal and there is zero chance he is returning to Brooklyn next season. The NBA is not kind to no-defense 6'2" guards when they break 30, especially guards that have an injury history like Kyrie's. Despite being a purported superstar, a team with him and KD look even worse than their 1-5 record.The owner tweeted he was disappointed and wanted to talk to Kyrie. Business men make business decisions. Cutting Kyrie isn't a good business decision.
He's not getting cut.
Well, of course. And I agree. But there's a half dozen people that have replied to me that seem to think Tsai is Mr Deeds and going to waive Kyrie out of a moral obligation.Not predicting a cutdown just yet, but a trade seems almost certain. And this could yet get even uglier (it's already hit the real ugly stage), and so a cut is not out of the question even as a strict business decision.
What happened this offseason is barely relevant. The Nets couldn't find a trade partner because trading for him appeared contingent on offering him a max contract.Don't be so sure, Tsai is done with Kyrie.
Kyrie is almost a sunk cost at this point, he has no value around the league, as was evident this offseason. If it becomes clear the team isn't going anywhere this season, he will have no problem telling Kyrie to stay home.
Respect for having that ready to on a Sunday morning.I think Tsai's longer-term interests and his multi-billion dollar investment in NYC/Brooklyn likely dictates him making a very loud and public announcement that he and the Nets organization do not and will not promote racism or racist theories, which target any ethnic group or religion, in any form or forum, including a basketball court.
Tsai's Nets, playing in the heart of Spike Lee's Brooklyn, but also in the heart of one of the world's largest Jewish communities, should do the right thing and distance themselves from the cancer that is Kyrie Irving.
Does anyone ever stop and question why the Lakers NEED to trade their picks in five and seven years to just to win right now? The Lakers have a lot of holes and Kyrie doesn't solve all of them; it's weird to me how so many people (not you specifically) think that it would be normal for a team to basically not have any first round picks for the next decade just so they can try to win with a flawed roster this year.If the Nets throw in the towel, and move KD for a ton of assets
who says no to Kyrie for RWB + the Lakers 2 Firsts ('27 & '29)???
Does Houston own pick-swap rights with the Nets this season?
I don't disagree, but I'm fine with the "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality. Once LBJ leaves, this team probably sucks for the next decade. Trading away your final few firsts to try and cash in while you have a (small) chance doesn't seem obscene.Does anyone ever stop and question why the Lakers NEED to trade their picks in five and seven years to just to win right now? The Lakers have a lot of holes and Kyrie doesn't solve all of them; it's weird to me how so many people (not you specifically) think that it would be normal for a team to basically not have any first round picks for the next decade just so they can try to win with a flawed roster this year.
I said this yesterday, but I think the league becoming way more switch-oriented makes it so that you are only as strong as your weakest player. If you have a weak defender on the court, the other team is going to get switches to get them onto their best offensive player and exploit it. On offense, if you have a weak shooter, teams will sag off them and double your best players. It's notable that the true best teams in the NBA, the Warriors, Bucks, Celtics, Grizzlies, don't really play any subpar players that much--they play a tight rotation of guys that could hang in a tough playoff series. Meanwhile the Nets and Lakers are playing Matt Ryan and Yuta Wantanabe significant minutes.I don't disagree, but I'm fine with the "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality. Once LBJ leaves, this team probably sucks for the next decade. Trading away your final few firsts to try and cash in while you have a (small) chance doesn't seem obscene.
But, FWIW, I agree with you. This teams issue isn't the top of the roster. It's probably an interesting discussion to have how teams with 2/3 top players - Lakers, Brooklyn - can no longer carry teams to wins like they used to be able to. I think it speaks volumes to how much more talented the league has become from top to bottom. The Lakers are getting NOTHING from a good chunk of its roster.
Anyway, I agree with you. If they swing a trade for Kyrie, I'd assume they'd want to add rotation pieces from the Nets as well. Otherwise Kyrie isn't enough to move the needle to make them a championship team.
This is simply not what happened.What happened this offseason is barely relevant. The Nets couldn't find a trade partner because trading for him appeared contingent on offering him a max contract.
There's definitely a point where cutting him IS a good business decision.The owner tweeted he was disappointed and wanted to talk to Kyrie. Business men make business decisions. Cutting Kyrie isn't a good business decision.
I'm not sure thats right, but your confidence has me doubting myself a little.This is simply not what happened.
No one wanted Kyrie on a 1 year expiring 36M contract, it had nothing to do with any future contract demands. The Lakers wanted him on the midlevel exception or as a way to dump Westbrook. There was no market for Kyrie at all.
He's crazy, a clubhouse cancer, and doesn't show up to play for a variety of strange reasons. Whatever he is ranked as a NBA player currently is barely relevant to his value.
He may not get cut straight out, but a Lakers trade for pennies on the dollar or a John Wall-style "we'll pay you but just stay home" plan are on the table.
I don't think your timeline is off, just the value of Irving around the league (or to the Nets currently).I'm not sure thats right, but your confidence has me doubting myself a little.
I thought the timeline of events went:
So, if those are the order of events that transpired, I think any team willing to trade for Irving would understand that he was requesting a trade from the Nets because he wanted a longterm contract. Due to his covid crap, nobody wanted to pay someone a max for 50 games a season. And, due to all the extenuating circumstances - personality, KD tandem, covid shit, flat earth, bad leader, etc - he was more valuable to the Nets than what people were willing to trade.
- Swept in playoffs, KD/Kyrie recommit to future of team during press conference.
- Irving requests max contract, Nets rebuff
- KD may/may not request a trade. Private leaks start to emerge. One theory was that it was in support of Irving getting the max extension they both were supposedly promised prior to joining the Nets.
- Irving gives Nets list of teams he'd be willing to get traded to
- No trade develops, so he opts into his final season.
- KD no longer wants out
BUT, if a team knew they could get Irving as a rental, and that he'd play the season out for his next contract? That's a completely different situation.
Have these hypothetical divisive top-20 players said anything as remotely fucked up as Kyrie?How many times has a team outright cut a top 20 player because he says something shitty or has a history of being divisive? It's probably happened, but off the top of my head, I can't think of any. In any league. Conversely, how many times has a professional sports team taken on a player with (too much) baggage on a low-risk contract?
Lakers get Kyrie, WatanabeIf the Nets throw in the towel, and move KD for a ton of assets
who says no to Kyrie for RWB + the Lakers 2 Firsts ('27 & '29)???
Does Houston own pick-swap rights with the Nets this season?
Additionally, Kyrie is absolutely not a top 20 player at this point. Top 20 players don't have any trouble getting max contracts. When he plays, he's a top 20 scorer. His rebounding and playmaking are mediocre for his position and his defense is below average at best. And that's when he plays, which is not often. He's averaged 46 games per year since leaving Cleveland, and has missed the end of the year 3 times over that stretch. And he's 6'2 and will be 31 before the playoffs. This is before you get to how his off the court BS depresses his value.Have these hypothetical divisive top-20 players said anything as remotely fucked up as Kyrie?
This post is perfect for a Kyrie thread. It makes sense, just totally unrelated to the discussion, haha.Hackett looked like the Jordan Peele sweating .gif trying to call that TO as the play clock was running down. He's a gift from the unintentional comedy gods and I hope he never gets fired.
Nets don't control their own pick until 2028, they can't tank. That also makes it way less valuable to trade KD.The Nets are 1-5 with Kyrie and his idiocy. How much worse will they get without him? This team isn’t winning shit. Cut Kyrie, trade Durant and go into tank mode for Webanyama.
Yeah, unfortunately for them, no reason to tank.Nets don't control their own pick until 2028, they can't tank. That also makes it way less valuable to trade KD.
I think they can wait out KD. They have him for years. Even if they cut Kyrie and KD instantly says he'll never put on the uniform again the Nets can still deal him from a position of strength. They can see what's on offer at the deadline or wait until the off-season.Seems to me the Kyrie decision for the Nets isn’t about Kyrie much at all, but rather how it affects their decision on KD. He’s all that’s left of value they have.
Maybe they’ll give things another 5-10 games to see if they look like a contender, but with Simmons working his way back (to put things very gently), this seems unlikely.
Do they think they can get maximum KD value on a trade in season? If they think yes, I’d expect a tear down soon. If they think no… I’m not sure the best short term plan.
Yeah, it's becoming clear the illusion they could keep KD/contend is fading away.I think they can wait out KD. They have him for years.
Moral obligation? Kyrie is on a one year contract and isn't returning. He appears to have zero trade value. The Nets are 1-5 and it seems likely that his divisive presence is a significant part of the problem (remember there are reports that Kyrie "hates" Nash and Marks). And I believe you are misremembering the part that he required a max contract extension with any trade. As I understand it, he wanted that early on -before he picked up the one-year option. Then he got more realistic and requested a trade to a few select teams, but without any added contract expectations. And "doing the right thing" here is also about his market. New York, and Brooklyn in particular, has a large Jewish population.Well, of course. And I agree. But there's a half dozen people that have replied to me that seem to think Tsai is Mr Deeds and going to waive Kyrie out of a moral obligation.
What happened this offseason is barely relevant. The Nets couldn't find a trade partner because trading for him appeared contingent on offering him a max contract.
As has been said before, he is not a top 20 player. Top 20 players have trade value - and Kyrie, apparently, doesn't. While a lot of the reason for that is his personality issues and his off-the-court behavior, teams clearly factor that into their decision making. Maybe, if the Nets are lucky, they might be able to trade him to the Lakers, straight up for Westbrook, but even that might be difficult now. Why would any team want to take him on during the middle of this fiasco?many times has a team outright cut a top 20 player because he says something shitty or has a history of being divisive? It's probably happened, but off the top of my head, I can't think of any. In any league. Conversely, how many times has a professional sports team taken on a player with (too much) baggage on a low-risk contract?
Again, this team is 1-5. Kyrie is untradeable. Cutting Kyrie is probably addition by subtraction. What really seems unrealistic is thinking that this situation gets any better by keeping Kyrie.If Tsai wants out on Kyrie - and I'm sure he does - he's not going to cut him for free. And he's not going to tell him, "stay home". That hand was already played last season and Kyrie called his bluff. Irving stayed home and Tsai let him back after a handful of weeks. The only thing that accomplishes this time is depreciating his own asset.
I'd love to be wrong, but I'm actually really surprised to be in the minority here. I get people saying, "Fuck Kyrie, I hope he gets cut." But that feels like real wish casting.
He's clearly not untradable. You think if they called the Lakers and said we'll give you Kyrie for RWB and something else that might have value they'd say no?Again, this team is 1-5. Kyrie is untradeable. Cutting Kyrie is probably addition by subtraction. What really seems unrealistic is thinking that this situation gets any better by keeping Kyrie.
Nobody is untradable, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to call him a negative asset at this point. To move him, Brooklyn either needs to add in real assets or trade him for an even bigger liability (Westbrook).He's clearly not untradable. You think if they called the Lakers and said we'll give you Kyrie for RWB and something else that might have value they'd say no?
It’s not that they couldn’t trade KD - it’s that they couldn’t trade him for enough value to make it worth their while.Question: If the Nets couldn’t trade KD in this last off-season, why will they be able to trade him going forward? Teams having different situations with the salary cap? Or something else?
RWB and picks was already rejected by the Lakers in the offseason. Kyrie clearly has less value now. I suppose they might be able to trade him straight up for Westbrook, but I’m not sure that it wouldn’t be better for them just to cut him.He's clearly not untradable. You think if they called the Lakers and said we'll give you Kyrie for RWB and something else that might have value they'd say no?
If anything was rejected it was RWB and 2 unprotected 1sts, pretty sure if Kyrie for RWB and 1 1st was actually on the table this summer Kyrie would be a Laker right now.RWB and picks was already rejected by the Lakers in the offseason. Kyrie clearly has less value now. I suppose they might be able to trade him straight up for Westbrook, but I’m not sure that it wouldn’t be better for them just to cut him.
Because they are delusional here in LaLa Land, along with the NBA National media.Does anyone ever stop and question why the Lakers NEED to trade their picks in five and seven years to just to win right now? The Lakers have a lot of holes and Kyrie doesn't solve all of them; it's weird to me how so many people (not you specifically) think that it would be normal for a team to basically not have any first round picks for the next decade just so they can try to win with a flawed roster this year.
I'm 100% on keeping JB (as long as he kicks the Twitter habit). I've been guilty of making up silly Brown trades over the years (I'm kicking that habit going forward )Lakers get Kyrie, Watanabe
Nets get Westbrook, JB, TL, picks
Celtics get Durant
Works in trade machine.
It’s definitely not the best decision for them, but they’ve made several poor decisions. GM Lebron does some curious things. I guess it’s easy when you don’t care about the future of the franchise.Does anyone ever stop and question why the Lakers NEED to trade their picks in five and seven years to just to win right now? The Lakers have a lot of holes and Kyrie doesn't solve all of them; it's weird to me how so many people (not you specifically) think that it would be normal for a team to basically not have any first round picks for the next decade just so they can try to win with a flawed roster this year.
I’m dying.If things don't improve soon, telling Kyrie to stay home, phantom injury for KD, play Simmons a lot to see if he has anything left... might be the move. Though not a great option of course.
The Lakers will take anyone they can getWhy would anybody trade for a bigot in the midst of this story? How does an NBA owner overcome the hypocrisy of making an affirmative decision to add him to their team while decrying what he said?
This is gold.This post is perfect for a Kyrie thread. It makes sense, just totally unrelated to the discussion, haha.
I mean "player X is tradeable if you're willing to take back the corpse of Russell Westbrook" is more or less untradeable. That shows how far Kyrie has fallen if Russ is the get.He's clearly not untradable. You think if they called the Lakers and said we'll give you Kyrie for RWB and something else that might have value they'd say no?
I am sad I can't find a gif of Mel Brooks in History of the World saying "Thhhhaaaank yooou," during his bit at the palace because this post deserves it. I feel like I am taking crazy pills.Why would anybody trade for a bigot in the midst of this story? How does an NBA owner overcome the hypocrisy of making an affirmative decision to add him to their team while decrying what he said?
Yes. I’m pretty sure the Laker offer would be RWB for the Demon Kyzuzu and a minimum contract to make the trade legal. No one is giving Brooklyn assets for a guy that might, legitimately, be too crazy for the NBA.He's clearly not untradable. You think if they called the Lakers and said we'll give you Kyrie for RWB and something else that might have value they'd say no?
New York City is the home of the most Jews in the world, approximately twice as many as #2 and #3, Jerusalem and LA. Tel-Aviv is 4th.People don't actually think the Nets are going to cut Kyrie, do they?
The Nets don’t have much leverage with one other team in a KD trade, but if they can get more than one team drooling over KD, the resulting auction will have the same effect.Yeah, it's becoming clear the illusion they could keep KD/contend is fading away.
Their leverage is what it is at this point... not great. But he will still get them a bunch of assets eventually.
No, the get would be whatever came with Russ, he's just the matching salary.I mean "player X is tradeable if you're willing to take back the corpse of Russell Westbrook" is more or less untradeable. That shows how far Kyrie has fallen if Russ is the get.
The Lakers are 0-5, Lebron is 37, Russ looks terrible, Davis is already hurt, and they don't have their own pick. But yeah I'm sure they'd rather just tank the season rather than give up an asset to hope they can make it work with Kyrie.Yes. I’m pretty sure the Laker offer would be RWB for the Demon Kyzuzu and a minimum contract to make the trade legal. No one is giving Brooklyn assets for a guy that might, legitimately, be too crazy for the NBA.
Boston's 7th.New York City is the home of the most Jews in the world, approximately twice as many as #2 and #3, Jerusalem and LA. Tel-Aviv is 4th.
Yeah, their "leverage" is just that KD is really good and a lot of teams would be interested.The Nets don’t have much leverage with one other team in a KD trade, but if they can get more than one team drooling over KD, the resulting auction will have the same effect.