Bruins sign Mitchell Miller to an ELC - now "parting ways"
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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View: https://twitter.com/_tyanderson/status/1589450907439321090?s=46&t=gc8mUFYBMAJzWh_ad2mFWA
Holy fuck what a disaster. This is the line he is going to take?
Holy fuck what a disaster. This is the line he is going to take?
Tomorrow will be interesting as Neely is absolutely horrible at media. He is incredibly thin skinned, and doesn’t handle even the slightest bit of criticism well. He had a weekly spot on the local radio station with Felger who everyone loathes but to his credit is a very good hockey interviewer. After a first round playoff loss, Felger asked him a legit and good question about their difficulty drafting and Cam got pissed, canceled his spot and has never come back. Not sure he has done much if any media in the past few years.
Neely is the head of hockey operations so this all falls on him. He’s not taking any responsibility for this which is incredibly weak as a leader. If he is throwing Sweeney and others under the bus for this, he’s a fucking weasel.
This strikes me as less likely than they just didn't think people would care.
I just don't see this at all.
This whole thing was really stupid, and poorly thought out. But I think that few will remember it in a few months, much less focus on it.
Im honestly not a huge hockey fan but i just read this whole thread and have a few things to say…
-Myt1’s post on this should be must reading. It really seems like Miller hasn’t done the work needed and honestly doesn’t deserve a second chance yet.
-From Sweeney’s opening lukewarm statements and what’s happened since, it seems like this was solely a Neely decision.
-this was completely embarrassing for the organization. If my thinking is correct and this was a Neely decision he should absolutely be fired or allowed to fall on his swords and retain some grace for this shitshow. Completely disgraceful
-Myt1’s post on this should be must reading. It really seems like Miller hasn’t done the work needed and honestly doesn’t deserve a second chance yet.
-From Sweeney’s opening lukewarm statements and what’s happened since, it seems like this was solely a Neely decision.
-this was completely embarrassing for the organization. If my thinking is correct and this was a Neely decision he should absolutely be fired or allowed to fall on his swords and retain some grace for this shitshow. Completely disgraceful
Surely. Neely and Sweeney are old school, guessing they probably aren’t super online guys. So they likely had no clue how this thing would blow up.
I think this is probably right. In a league that employs plenty of shitty people, I think they banked on this guy being considered just another one.
He right there in the greatest Bruins who did not play defence and have the intials 'or' in their name, discussion.
Orgs named in the Eustace King letter saying "no we haven't done this" "we only had discussions" also torpedoed what little fig leaf they were relying on.
Can we start debating if Cam deserves a second chance or if he should be fired now?
It was a dumbfuckery decision to sign this piece of shit. It was a hard, but correct decision to walk away from it.
Nobody will remember this in 3 months.
Go Bruins.
It was a dumbfuckery decision to sign this piece of shit. It was a hard, but correct decision to walk away from it.
Nobody will remember this in 3 months.
Go Bruins.
This was so embarrassing for the organization. I cant imagine they can actually can get out of the contract but if they do, that's good news. This kid doesn't belong in the NHL.
Special shouts to @Myt1 for his post picking apart the very bad article that was being used as evidence of something that wasn't there. When the organizations the agent claimed were involved started publicly stating that they were not, the bruins HAD to do something.
What a mess.
Special shouts to @Myt1 for his post picking apart the very bad article that was being used as evidence of something that wasn't there. When the organizations the agent claimed were involved started publicly stating that they were not, the bruins HAD to do something.
What a mess.
I hope that the unified response from the core leadership guys and coaches opened some eyes in the front office and ownership. Talent doesn't supercede character.
Just drop the fucking mic already.So, here are most of his statements, broken down. Even allowing for the fact that he’s certainly not a communications professional, I don’t have as positive a view on his statements as others. Part of that is the shitty writer. But I just don’t think he comes off well at all.
OK. So, what has he done?
So, for starters, a court ordered apology is, definitionally, not “in the immediate aftermath of the incident.” This seems to be the interested reporter carrying water for him, rather than puffery by Miller himself, but it’s nonsense.
Next, I mean, do we even give credit for a court-ordered apology? It’s not like he volunteered and did it on his own.
OK. So, tried to add him on Snapchat.
This isn’t the only usage of the word “friends,”and it seems both completely incongruous as to the behavior at issue and the mother’s version of things. Yet Miller repeats the usage, such that it’s possibly a tell of coached behavior or self-interested narrative deflection that misrepresents both the scope of the bad conduct as well as the relationship between the two.
Again, “We we’re friends, and we could be friends again,” seems to badly misstate reality in which a Court gave you a stay away order and the kid’s mother says he’s emotionally traumatized and scarred. It’s possible that this is self-deception, but it feels worse than that.
Rhetorical primacy.
So, here’s how it affected him again. And he also sees a counselor now. So, we’re up to a court mandated apology and some counseling.
So, yeah, it’s really difficult to see this as anything but clumsy narrative deflection/gaslighting. It’s not just Miller, here. It’s “these boys.” We can make an allowance that the guy writing this is bad at what he does, but, Miller’s and his mom’s quotes are accurate, they’re very likely practiced and intended to minimize the problem as an unfortunate issue between good friends.
OK, so what was the “above and beyond”?
Court ordered 25 hours of community service.
That’s like . . . three weeks of being a Little League coach. It’s less time than some posters here have spent complaining about the 2015 draft. And it’s court-ordered.
So, what else?
OK. So his former coach notes that he participated in what at first blush seems a lot like the Bruins going and visiting Children’s Hospital, right? What was the scope and time commitment? I have to think that, if it were truly substantial, the specifics would have been noted by one of the many interested parties. Given that they weren’t, this feels a lot like, “He went along on our soup kitchen and nursing home and high school visits.”
So, I have this thing about kitchen sink argumentation: when you pile on shitty arguments, it calls into question the credibility of your whole narrative. So what we have here is Miller “working with” a teammate who has a certain impressive sounding credential for borrowing, in the hopes of doing something that he didn’t actually do, because we certainly would have been told if he did.
Continue what work, exactly?
Anyone got this letter? Because I see:
1. Court mandated apology;
2. Court mandated community service;
3. Participation in team community service at a rate similar to others; and
4. Seeing counselors.
“North Dakota lied to me and protected themselves instead. NHL teams are protecting themselves as well.”
So, I guess other people who interviewed him feel much the same way I do when I read this article written by someone who, admittedly, is doing Miller no favors.
This article is super long on letting Miller try to take credit for stuff he never ended up doing.
Jesus, dude. Read the fucking room.
Obviously, I come at this stuff from a certain tradition and method and view it through a certain lens. But this really does not strike me as a good article for Miller.
Edit: And, apparently stuff happened as I was breaking this down. Viewing Newley’s statement charitably, it seems that the org was stupid/lazy/negligent enough to take Miller’s dishonest framing of the incident as accurate?!?
I'd also like to positively call out @Myt1 for their efforts in trying to steer the conversation away from the more emotional responses as it carried on. I've lurked here for about 20 years, and their cut-to-the-heart-of-the-matter questions and article dissection are the perfect examples of improving the signal-to-noise ratio this place prides itself for. Well done.
Thanks for the kind words re: the analysis, everyone.
I want to note that I don’t mean to belittle @TSC ‘s take on things here. He’s a person whose opinion I greatly respect, particularly on issues like growing up and changing for the better, second chances, and the possibility of redemption. My mind just works in a different and not always entirely pleasant way in connection with stuff like this. Makes me a big hit at parties.
I want to note that I don’t mean to belittle @TSC ‘s take on things here. He’s a person whose opinion I greatly respect, particularly on issues like growing up and changing for the better, second chances, and the possibility of redemption. My mind just works in a different and not always entirely pleasant way in connection with stuff like this. Makes me a big hit at parties.
Looking back on Sweeney's initial comments, it sure sounds like he was against this signing and Cam made him do it. I have never seen someone in sports question "a move they made" in the presser announcing it like that. I don't think Cam has a scapegoat on the team, Sweeney made sure of that, and I hope the pressure doesn't relent
100%. it’s almost like Sweeney was distancing himself from the signing as it was announced
“There was no new information. The Bruins had simply not pursued it.
On Saturday, Meyer-Crothers said nobody from the Bruins had contacted her family prior to Friday’s signing or after the transaction. As of 9:50 p.m. on Sunday, she had not received a call from the organization.
“Like the Bruins are saying, he said it was a one-time thing,” Meyer-Crothers said. “If the Bruins would have called us, they would have known that it wasn’t a one-time thing. I’m very happy they apologized to Isaiah. They owed Isaiah that apology. But there still is a victim that was re-traumatized again by all of this. What’s anybody going to do to help Isaiah?””
https://theathletic.com/3770433/2022/11/06/bruins-mitchell-miller-victims-family/?source=user_shared_article
On Saturday, Meyer-Crothers said nobody from the Bruins had contacted her family prior to Friday’s signing or after the transaction. As of 9:50 p.m. on Sunday, she had not received a call from the organization.
“Like the Bruins are saying, he said it was a one-time thing,” Meyer-Crothers said. “If the Bruins would have called us, they would have known that it wasn’t a one-time thing. I’m very happy they apologized to Isaiah. They owed Isaiah that apology. But there still is a victim that was re-traumatized again by all of this. What’s anybody going to do to help Isaiah?””
https://theathletic.com/3770433/2022/11/06/bruins-mitchell-miller-victims-family/?source=user_shared_article
I'm not trying to be insensitive, but this family needs to learn to move on. He's gotten a lot of love and support, more than 99% of kids that have been bullied. I mean, shit, he's got a professional sports team recognizing and apologizing for his pain. At some point, you gotta move on. "What's anybody going to do to help Isaiah?" What are they doing to help him move on? I hope they are getting him the help he needs.
Your whole post is very well laid out and informative. I’ll echo others as I’m very appreciative of the time it must’ve taken. also I want to thank you for this line, as there wasn’t much to laugh wrt to this situation over the last few days, but this received a very vocal chuckle from me that startled the dog.
As to second chances and if there are any lines too far for youthful mistakes, I was reminded of Islanders Casey Czikias. He killed someone in a youth rugby game by a pile driving tackle. The victim’s family forgave him, but he was still found guilty by the Courts
In 2009, Cizikas was found guilty of manslaughter by Judge Bruce Duncan, who believed Cizikas used "unnecessary force." He was given a sentence of one year probation and 100 hours of community service.[20]
not sure what to make of this, as it seems a crime less reflective of ongoing character. But how would it be if the victims family were as vocal of their opposition?
In 2009, Cizikas was found guilty of manslaughter by Judge Bruce Duncan, who believed Cizikas used "unnecessary force." He was given a sentence of one year probation and 100 hours of community service.[20]
not sure what to make of this, as it seems a crime less reflective of ongoing character. But how would it be if the victims family were as vocal of their opposition?
So does Neely get sacked for this? I think he should - for sheer incompetence alone in not doing due diligence , not to mention not understanding the impending firestorm.
I feel bad for the kid. Like, if he has actually tried and this is the result, I think the NHL and the Bruins did him dirty. While, like many, I appreciate @Myt1 takedown of the article, I also think it's kind of unfair to pick through a young adult's comments like he is a politician and reading into every sentence and psychoanalyzing it...but if that's all we have, then so be it. I also find it unfortunate that the agency that represents him would fudge the facts, and another thing I was hoping for (because I do like a story of redemption), is to hear from any organization that isn't directly connected to him to come out and say "you know what? This kid did help out and volunteer here", and I do think it's quite telling that no one has stepped up.
I sided with @TSC because so many people were making judgment calls on this kid (and ultimately, it looks like most of them, sadly for Miller, will be right in the end) without having all of the "story" (I won't say facts, because now it appears as if the facts might actually not be true).
As for the Bruins, agreed with everyone from the very start as to "why was this even necessary?"
I sided with @TSC because so many people were making judgment calls on this kid (and ultimately, it looks like most of them, sadly for Miller, will be right in the end) without having all of the "story" (I won't say facts, because now it appears as if the facts might actually not be true).
As for the Bruins, agreed with everyone from the very start as to "why was this even necessary?"
Some times it comes down to multiple reasons. And a superstar gets more chances than an average player. And Cam has not been a superstar in his role with the team. If he made this call he should be gone.
As always, @Myt1 proves himself much more adapt at [strike]being a loser[/strike] being much better at analyzing words for flaws/weaknesses in those words.
I tried connecting a few pieces of information and assumed that otherwise non racist people wouldn’t set their careers on fire for someone who, at least at one point in his life, is clearly a piece of shit (the articles author, the management agency, the fucking Bruins).
But I was wrong, and I expended SoSHial capital on someone who seemingly doesn’t deserve it. That’s on me.
Apologies to anyone I got into it with in regards to this kid. While I stand behind my belief in second chances for kids, this was the wrong person to use it on.
Anyways. His father seems like a real piece of work.
View: https://twitter.com/iankennedyck/status/1589430016840204291?s=46&t=_XkajB9KralaOcKXOrYz0g
I tried connecting a few pieces of information and assumed that otherwise non racist people wouldn’t set their careers on fire for someone who, at least at one point in his life, is clearly a piece of shit (the articles author, the management agency, the fucking Bruins).
But I was wrong, and I expended SoSHial capital on someone who seemingly doesn’t deserve it. That’s on me.
Apologies to anyone I got into it with in regards to this kid. While I stand behind my belief in second chances for kids, this was the wrong person to use it on.
Anyways. His father seems like a real piece of work.
View: https://twitter.com/iankennedyck/status/1589430016840204291?s=46&t=_XkajB9KralaOcKXOrYz0g
Other than noting the fact that Sweeney's original statement didn't appear to be coming from him, I really had trouble processing all this. I had thought I was in the "second chance" side of things, but I'm pretty confident now that he's already had some chances to learn and doesn't seem to have learned much.
I do take issue with the dichotomy of "court-ordered" vs "voluntary" actions. Its not how the act comes about, its what does the act look like. His acts look like going through the motions. You can be sentenced to community service and really do something worthwhile. Or you can volunteer and do nothing. Same with apologies. But even reading the most recent stuff as charitably as possible, and even accounting for his age (which I think too many people are giving short shrift to) there seems to be a whole lot of "I'm gonna's" and "I' tried's" and and not a lot of "I did's."
Ultimately, while it may be unreasonable to expect a complete transformation between then and now, my take on reading whats been posted/linked here, is that he has shown close to zero indication that he "gets it" at a human level.
Obviously, the organization-whoever it is -- fucked up. I dont think its fireable. Sports today is littered with executives who double-down on errors. That they (whoever they are in this instance) didn;t do that is enough to avoid firing.
EDIT- And @TSC--you (and me and others) may have been wrong, but I think it takes more than being wrong to expend capital.
I do take issue with the dichotomy of "court-ordered" vs "voluntary" actions. Its not how the act comes about, its what does the act look like. His acts look like going through the motions. You can be sentenced to community service and really do something worthwhile. Or you can volunteer and do nothing. Same with apologies. But even reading the most recent stuff as charitably as possible, and even accounting for his age (which I think too many people are giving short shrift to) there seems to be a whole lot of "I'm gonna's" and "I' tried's" and and not a lot of "I did's."
Ultimately, while it may be unreasonable to expect a complete transformation between then and now, my take on reading whats been posted/linked here, is that he has shown close to zero indication that he "gets it" at a human level.
Obviously, the organization-whoever it is -- fucked up. I dont think its fireable. Sports today is littered with executives who double-down on errors. That they (whoever they are in this instance) didn;t do that is enough to avoid firing.
EDIT- And @TSC--you (and me and others) may have been wrong, but I think it takes more than being wrong to expend capital.
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The why? Is probably as simple as they think he is a good, young hockey player. The system needs them. They probably figured they’d deal with a bad news cycle and then everyone would move on. How they reached that conclusion is anyone’s guess.
For all the talk of Boston Bruins fans (and Boston fans in general) being racist, it is a small victory when the team literally gets bullied by their fans into releasing a player that has done the racism.
Yes, you do. You hear it from friends or on the playground at school, regardless of where you grew up.
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The Bruins fans on the hockey Reddit have been great too in their universal condemnation of this signing and the organization's actions.
And the core players, man I couldn't admire them more. The locker room culture won't tolerate a piece of shit like Miller being part of the organization. That's a tremendous positive.
Neely ought to lose his job over this, but he serves as a convenient shield for JJ and Charlie so I highly doubt he's sacked. But holy shit he ought to be.
I think so, too. Regardless of where a kid first hears it, most kids eventually repeat what they hear on the playground at home, which is a parent's chance.
I agree that this is probably how they perceived it would go down, but this is 2022 not 2002. How could they have thought that way?
Did they not witness the Logan Mailloux fiasco in Montreal just last year where sponsors were threatening to pull support of the Habs and even the Prime Minister was chiming in?
What the kid did or didn't do to atone for his past is relevant but not the main issue - this is really about the Bruins' executive and their inability to comprehend that this would not blow over and that there would be a public outcry.
Come on, this isn't binary. I was convinced by a fellow classmate when I was in elementary school to call some a n-word, and I have literally no clue what it meant and my parents certainly have never uttered the word. It could be the parents, it could be his classmates, it could be both (and in this case, it does sound like it possibly was both his home environment and his school environment).
Don’t even have to look at Mailloux. They literally had an example of this exact player trying to enter the league 2 years ago. Everything that happened over the past 3 days happened step by step in Arizona. It was right there in front of them and they ignored it.
I also was wrong, but I don't necessarily think it was a waste of time. This is something that happens a lot today (and I'm also very guilty of it) in that everyone jumps on the information that is made available to them with immediate judgement, and when there is evidence provided (and no one knew at the time that all of the "volunteering" claims were possibly false), they stick to their initial judgement and refuse to even acknowledge the existence of contrary evidence.
Now, was I fooled by the article that was posted, as well as the tweet by Miller's agency? Yeah, I was, and I think it sucks that what I was hoping for (redemption for Miller) is quite possibly turning out to be not possible. I believe in 2nd chances for stupid things that kids do. And I'm kind of disappointed that it won't turn out this way for someone.
And please don't misunderstand me, if he's truly still a piece of shit, then he can go f himself, but I like to hear stories of reformed pieces of shit, and I guess he won't be one.
You’re a good man, Charlie Brown. And this is exactly the sort of thing you should expend SoSH capital on. This is what we do here.
This is interesting. I think both are important. If he were doing 10 hours a week of coaching, and kept going long past his court ordered deadline, and made a difference in the lives of a bunch of kids, I’d concentrate less on the Court-ordered aspect of things. But, when it’s the only stuff that he did, it feels much more box-checking to me, which lends support to the notion that he wouldn’t have done it unless required, and that it didn’t stem from true remorse and a desire to make his world better than it was.
That is, I think we’re ultimately in agreement (surprise, surprise); I’m just tagging the thought process a bit differently.
This is perfectly fair: I had started by trying to parse the actual facts, but the author leaned into the bullshit in a way triggers my particular set of skills. It’s like Taken, but for assholes.
FWIW, the “friends” signposting probably isn’t his originally. I’d put my money on his parents or advisers.
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I was probably not clear. Assuming its first heard "on the playground,".....if you then repeated it at home (as most kids do), that would be your parents' chance to let you know it's not acceptable. In no way was i trying to suggest that it "must" have originated at home.