2023 NBA Playoffs
- Thread starter BaseballJones
- Start date
Phoenix already had an issue with depth. Take away two starters, and their only path to victory was stout defense and 80 from Durant/Booker. Swing and a miss, I guess.
It's easy to kill Durant (he really did take inspiration from Tatum), but in the 3 minutes he spent on the bench, Phoenix was outscored by 19. Maybe he'll be better next year when he's fully recovered, or maybe a combination of age/injury have finally moved him to the next stage of his career.
Both he and Booker played 21 minutes, and while Durant was -11, Booker was -31. That seems almost impossible.
It's easy to kill Durant (he really did take inspiration from Tatum), but in the 3 minutes he spent on the bench, Phoenix was outscored by 19. Maybe he'll be better next year when he's fully recovered, or maybe a combination of age/injury have finally moved him to the next stage of his career.
Both he and Booker played 21 minutes, and while Durant was -11, Booker was -31. That seems almost impossible.
Watching these games tonight with so many of those original Thunder guys still around (Durant, Harden, Green) bright back again how lame it was they broke up that team. World have been so great to watch them try to break through, and they would have battled the hell out GS and Lebron's teams.
This has been discussed a bunch and people are very set in their opinion (for and against)…personally I think they could have. I think Presti preferred to break up Hardens salary for 3-4 good players (as opposed to 1 really good player)
I kind of wonder if they’d have played well together as they all became stars or needed to play separately to find themselves.. hard to imagine there being enough shots for Westbrook, Harden and Durant to be happy long term.
He really is. Every year he’s been in the league he’s been on one of, if not the, most talented teams in the NBA. For how good he is and the teams he’s been a part of, his end results have been super underwhelming
I've been saying, I believe Denver comes out of the West. Jokic is not only amazing himself, but he makes everyone on that team leagues better. Gordon owes him some millions for sure. Jokic is also just easy to root for. No flopping, no barreling people over...just a fucking brilliant, make-it-look-easy game. I was too young for the Bird years, but in the limited highlights and things I've seen he reminds me of Bird in that way.
The suns will be better with a full offseason of tooling but KD will have to stay healthy for it to matter. And i know people love Booker but he's a smaller guard who works really hard to score. His game is very intensive, he'll be worn out by May.
When they started taking about it being an announcers final game, I thought Huber was finally going to retire.
And Paul will be another year older. Even if he and Durant are healthy and they improve the roster around them, this Suns team seems just as likely to regress as improve.
They may pass somewhat similarly but Bird moved a lot more like a forward/guard. Jokic def moves like a center.. maybe passes more like Sabonis the elder or Divac? He definitely has McHale-esque moves when he gets on the post.
I'll defer to your knowledge there, thanks for the insight. He's just quietly dominant, like a father playing hoops against his kids. Murray being all the way back has really raised their ceiling imo.
They owe $164M to Durant/Booker/Ayton/Paul, and while there are ways to reduce that, I'm not sure they are going to be able to sign a big name free agent.
Someone has to take the fall for this performance and it will probably be Monty Williams. If he is let go, who do the Suns target as their next coach?
View: https://youtu.be/Q9AbAtzz9zE
Look at some of these passes.. very similar to Jokic.
View: https://youtu.be/PrJxWXbGD-s
His up and under move is a direct copy of McHale.. Jokic is one of the only players doing multiple fakes in the low post like Kevin used to do.
I believe they'd need to trade cp by june 30 or his 30 mill is fully guaranteed. Also they have shamet on the books for 10mill. They're in a tough spot.
Blowing it up to what end? They have Durant and Booker under contract each for 3+ years and owe 5 outgoing 1st round picks. There's 0 chance they blow anything up, nor should they even consider it, unless KD somehow demands a trade again.
They also won't get anything like what they paid for Durant if they trade him, not after that series.
They effectively traded 7-9 firsts plus the swaps, given what Bridges and Johnson would fetch in trades.
They'll be better with a full season together (as long as they remain somewhat healthy). Probably not good enough to win, but entertaining enough to fill the arena and make some noise in a conference with a lot of teams at or near the end of their runs (GS, LAL, LAC).
Except that if Durant misses his customary 20-30 games, they'll be a crap seed and very run-down. They have zero depth and not much way to get depth.
I agree that's the move - both because they need the team to look different and because it's been clear since last offseason he and the team have issues with each other.
He's an interesting guy to try and value---what would you give for him? Is he potentially a "good player if you realize he's a third wheel at most" or is he a guy who will perpetually think he's more than he is and never really be part of success? I lean towards the former but it's very much about how he's wired and I don't really have a great sense of that
You'd love to dump CP3, but suspect that's not viable internally or externally (e.g. value/contracts in return). CP3 and parts for Ben Simmons - who says no? Other than Kevin Durant!
I’d think Kyrie is going to try and claw his way to KD and Phoenix. Sign and trade for CP maybe.
Does seed matter at all in the playoffs as long as you're not maybe a 10/11? Heat and Lakers both look like they'll be in the conference finals and the extra rest seems far better than fighting for a 3rd or 4th seed. If the best actual teams are often landing 2-6 anyway, who cares?
How superstars have played in this year's playoffs....
Jokic: 8-3, .549 FG, .475 3pt, 30.7 points, 12.8 rebounds, 9.7 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.7 blocks, 3.5 turnovers
Embiid: 5-3, .452 FG, .208 3pt, 24.8 points, 10.0 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 0.8 steals, 2.9 blocks, 3.9 turnovers
Harden: 7-3, .401 FG, .390 3pt, 21.4 points, 6.2 rebounds, 8.4 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.0 turnovers
Butler: 7-2, .551 FG, .394 3pt, 31.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 1.9 steals, 0.9 blocks, 2.2 turnovers
Randle: 6-4, .391 FG, .271 3pt, 16.8 points, 8.0 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
Tatum: 7-5, .435 FG, .336 3pt, 26.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.3 blocks, 2.5 turnovers
Brown: 7-5, .547 FG, .469 3pt, 24.6 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.2 turnovers
Curry: 6-6, .473 FG, .371 3pt, 30.3 points, 5.1 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.4 blocks, 3.2 turnovers
Klay: 6-6, .410 FG, .387 3pt, 19.4 points, 4.3 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.3 blocks, 2.2 turnovers
Durant: 6-5, .478 FG, .333 3pt, 29.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 1.4 blocks, 3.5 turnovers
Booker: 6-5, .585 FG, .508 3pt, 33.7 points, 4.8 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.8 blocks, 2.9 turnovers
LeBron: 7-5, .475 FG, .247 3pt, 22.8 points, 10.1 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 0.8 steals, 1.3 blocks, 2.6 turnovers
Davis: 7-5, .529 FG, .273 3pt, 21.5 points, 13.5 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.4 steals, 3.4 blocks, 2.5 turnovers
If I had to rank them best to worst, here's how I'd do it:
1. Jokic - dude has been absolutely ridiculous, and his team has now advanced to the conference finals.
2. Butler - the man has just an amazing will to win and has done it all this playoffs.
3. Booker - he was incredible until last night, when he put up a total stinker at home in an elimination game (4-13, 12 points).
4. Curry - he hasn't shot like we are used to seeing, but at times he's the only guy on that team doing anything.
5. Brown - he's been rock steady for Boston in both wins and losses.
6. Durant - he's been eliminated so this knocks him down some, but he has been pretty efficient and has done it all again.
7. Davis - he's not been super consistent, but at times he's been downright dominant.
8. Tatum - he's so weird to evaluate...like last night he was TERRIBLE offensively all game but rebounded and played D and then in the fourth quarter he erupts...so was it a good game? Who the heck knows. But his stats on the whole are pretty solid.
9. LeBron - for a 97 year old man, the guy is still amazing...just a solid basketball player even if he isn't what he used to be.
10. Embiid - hasn't shot great but the Celtics are playing good D on him; plus he's playing on an injured knee.
11. Harden - has had some monster games but also some games where he's totally disappeared.
12. Klay - not remotely the player he used to be.
13. Randle - he's got Knicks fans wondering if they should even bring him back.
Jokic: 8-3, .549 FG, .475 3pt, 30.7 points, 12.8 rebounds, 9.7 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.7 blocks, 3.5 turnovers
Embiid: 5-3, .452 FG, .208 3pt, 24.8 points, 10.0 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 0.8 steals, 2.9 blocks, 3.9 turnovers
Harden: 7-3, .401 FG, .390 3pt, 21.4 points, 6.2 rebounds, 8.4 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.0 turnovers
Butler: 7-2, .551 FG, .394 3pt, 31.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 1.9 steals, 0.9 blocks, 2.2 turnovers
Randle: 6-4, .391 FG, .271 3pt, 16.8 points, 8.0 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.6 turnovers
Tatum: 7-5, .435 FG, .336 3pt, 26.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 5.2 assists, 1.0 steals, 1.3 blocks, 2.5 turnovers
Brown: 7-5, .547 FG, .469 3pt, 24.6 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.3 blocks, 3.2 turnovers
Curry: 6-6, .473 FG, .371 3pt, 30.3 points, 5.1 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 1.0 steals, 0.4 blocks, 3.2 turnovers
Klay: 6-6, .410 FG, .387 3pt, 19.4 points, 4.3 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.3 blocks, 2.2 turnovers
Durant: 6-5, .478 FG, .333 3pt, 29.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 1.4 blocks, 3.5 turnovers
Booker: 6-5, .585 FG, .508 3pt, 33.7 points, 4.8 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.8 blocks, 2.9 turnovers
LeBron: 7-5, .475 FG, .247 3pt, 22.8 points, 10.1 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 0.8 steals, 1.3 blocks, 2.6 turnovers
Davis: 7-5, .529 FG, .273 3pt, 21.5 points, 13.5 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.4 steals, 3.4 blocks, 2.5 turnovers
If I had to rank them best to worst, here's how I'd do it:
1. Jokic - dude has been absolutely ridiculous, and his team has now advanced to the conference finals.
2. Butler - the man has just an amazing will to win and has done it all this playoffs.
3. Booker - he was incredible until last night, when he put up a total stinker at home in an elimination game (4-13, 12 points).
4. Curry - he hasn't shot like we are used to seeing, but at times he's the only guy on that team doing anything.
5. Brown - he's been rock steady for Boston in both wins and losses.
6. Durant - he's been eliminated so this knocks him down some, but he has been pretty efficient and has done it all again.
7. Davis - he's not been super consistent, but at times he's been downright dominant.
8. Tatum - he's so weird to evaluate...like last night he was TERRIBLE offensively all game but rebounded and played D and then in the fourth quarter he erupts...so was it a good game? Who the heck knows. But his stats on the whole are pretty solid.
9. LeBron - for a 97 year old man, the guy is still amazing...just a solid basketball player even if he isn't what he used to be.
10. Embiid - hasn't shot great but the Celtics are playing good D on him; plus he's playing on an injured knee.
11. Harden - has had some monster games but also some games where he's totally disappeared.
12. Klay - not remotely the player he used to be.
13. Randle - he's got Knicks fans wondering if they should even bring him back.
I could watch those McHale highlights forever. I think him and Olajuwon are the two best low post scorers I've ever seen. Obviously have to put Kareem in there too but he didn't have nearly the variety of moves that either McHale or Hakeem had.
no way Mavs want to do that. Rumor I've heard is they are trying to figure out how to clear enough tax space to swap Ayton out in a Kyrie deal, but it's tough because... they aren't going to cut Chris Paul and who is going to trade for him and give you cap relief in the deal?
Not intelligent Knicks fans, he is playing with an ankle he has sprained badly a few times, and he has been matched up against two guys who made the first two All-Defensive teams, Mobley and Adebayo.
How about Ayton for Myles Turner? The Pacers were the team that signed Ayton to the offer sheet, so they obviously are fans. Turner is a better player than Ayton is but he’s older and really doesn’t fit the timeline of the other Pacer players.
These moves would also fit the modern game so well; I'm surprised we don't see more of it. Imagine what McHale would have done with the space in the lane you see now. Seems like too many bigs default to fall away jumpers instead.
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The problem is that this is his second terrible playoffs in a row.
Last year: 1-4, .298 FG, .333 3pt, 18.0 points, 11.6 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.0 blocks, 4.6 turnovers
So for his career so far in the postseason:
.352 FG, .293 3pt, 17.2 points, 9.3 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.1 blocks, 3.9 turnovers
That's not a #1 guy you are hoping can take you to the championship.
Yeah, he's not the best player on the team (Brunson) and ideally he is a #3. That previous series in 2021 (not last year, they missed the playoffs), he had absolutely no offensive help, so they just swarmed him and no one else stepped up. No one has ever thought for a second that Julius Randle could be a #1 guy on a title team. That doesn't mean you trade him, part of the issue also is that idiot Thibs doesn't believe in resting guys and Randle played literally every game for the first 75 or so, then the ankle issues began.