Barring injury (knock wood), Tatum will once again compete for the league lead in minutes. He loves to play, and there’s an organizational philosophy that players need to be physically ready for lots of hard minutes in the playoffs.
And along with this, the bench is going to have a LOT of nights where it puts up 8 points or whatever, even when the team does well. The Celtics have 2-4 of their 5 (!) offensive creators on the floor at all times, and unless a team really sells out to leave PP/Hauser wide open (which is crazy), the play is going to get finished by one of the starters more often than not.I don't think any of the top 6 are going to have career highs in PPG and I hope they are okay with it. Because there is so much offensive talent, everyone is going to have to take a backseat to the hot hand once in a while.
Minus injuries, this is my biggest concern. By mid-season, I could see JB for Rob and Brogdon + looking far more palatable than anyone would have imagined a few months ago.2. Leaning too heavily on the starters.
It's 2023: Brisset's size is totally fine for a non-center. I don't think there's any way they deal Hauser (and his extremely appealing contract) unless an incredible deal comes along.Minus injuries, this is my biggest concern. By mid-season, I could see JB for Rob and Brogdon + looking far more palatable than anyone would have imagined a few months ago.
Edit: more realistically, I could see them doing a lateral move where they deal Hauser for a player of similar value but different makeup, less of a floor-spacer and more of an athletic banger. They just don't have size and athleticism off the bench. Horford is old, Hauser and Pritchard aren't strong, Brisset is the closest but undersized. The bench will have some good nights but— I fear— won't be able to give them enough quality minutes against some of the more physical teams.
He may be in Memphis but he is still costing this team!I love Marcus. I'm going to miss Marcus. The guy was my spirit animal. However, there are a lot of things about Marcus that are frustrating and it seemed a lot of those traits wore off on his teammates. I won't miss that. Team has plenty of veteran leadership.
If I were to accuse one player of caring about his stats the most out of the 6 it would be Jayson Tatum.I don't think any of the top 6 are going to have career highs in PPG and I hope they are okay with it. Because there is so much offensive talent, everyone is going to have to take a backseat to the hot hand once in a while.
I'm really not down on Hauser. I just think that if you were drafting this team from scratch and had the top 7 guys defined, you wouldn't think, "for our next pick, we should load up on more three-point shooting." He seemed more integral to the team coming into last season, when the overall 3pt accuracy and spacing was more of a question mark.It's 2023: Brisset's size is totally fine for a non-center. I don't think there's any way they deal Hauser (and his extremely appealing contract) unless an incredible deal comes along.
Horford coming off the bench in 25 minutes has looked pretty spry to my eye. Brisset looked good last night in that athletic guy off the bench, especially against a smaller team like the Heat.Minus injuries, this is my biggest concern. By mid-season, I could see JB for Rob and Brogdon + looking far more palatable than anyone would have imagined a few months ago.
Edit: more realistically, I could see them doing a lateral move where they deal Hauser for a player of similar value but different makeup, less of a floor-spacer and more of an athletic banger. They just don't have size and athleticism off the bench. Horford is old, Hauser and Pritchard aren't strong, Brisset is the closest but undersized. The bench will have some good nights but— I fear— won't be able to give them enough quality minutes against some of the more physical teams.
My way too early HOT TAKEZ on how CJM will adjust rotations & style of playIt's 2023: Brisset's size is totally fine for a non-center. I don't think there's any way they deal Hauser (and his extremely appealing contract) unless an incredible deal comes along.
Wing is one of their thinnest positions. They absolutely want a true SF who's a shooter.I'm really not down on Hauser. I just think that if you were drafting this team from scratch and had the top 7 guys defined, you wouldn't think, "for our next pick, we should load up on more three-point shooting." He seemed more integral to the team coming into last season, when the overall 3pt accuracy and spacing was more of a question mark.
Yep, the NBA Media loves lumping Hauser and Pritchard's defense together, they lean into the Unathletic White Man trope hard.Wing is one of their thinnest positions. They absolutely want a true SF who's a shooter.
Also, Hauser's individual and team defense has improved a lot, and they seem fine leaving him out their against more guys. He defended Butler credibly yesterday.
Yeah, there are legitimate Hauser/PP critiques, but most of what people criticize them for is just really lazy racial stereotyping.Yep, the NBA Media loves lumping Hauser and Pritchard's defense together, they lean into the Unathletic White Man trope hard.
Anyone who has watched closely knows that Sam Island consistently forces alpha WINGs into lower % FGA late in the shot clock.
Brisset is 6'7", 210 and Lamar Stevens is 6'6" 230 and both are spectacular athletes.Edit: more realistically, I could see them doing a lateral move where they deal Hauser for a player of similar value but different makeup, less of a floor-spacer and more of an athletic banger. They just don't have size and athleticism off the bench. Horford is old, Hauser and Pritchard aren't strong, Brisset is the closest but undersized.
Jalen Smith gets brought up a fair bit on Reddit, but I can't imagine Indy doing it.Brisset is 6'7", 210 and Lamar Stevens is 6'6" 230 and both are spectacular athletes.
I'm honestly wondering because I can't think of anyone off the top of my head - who are you thinking of that is bigger than these two, as athletic, and have decent contracts that could be acquired? I mean athletic 6'9", 6'10" guys are pretty coveted around the league, no?
Jalen Smith isn't what I would call a "banger". Also, as you point out, IND isn't going to give him away and POBOS isn't trading any assrts for him.Jalen Smith gets brought up a fair bit on Reddit, but I can't imagine Indy doing it.
Looking at this list, I dunno, I think maybe Precious Achiuwa depending on if Toronto wants to tear it down.Jalen Smith isn't what I would call a "banger". Also, as you point out, IND isn't going to give him away and POBOS isn't trading any assrts for him.
He was stretched in 2017.Looking at this list, I dunno, I think maybe Precious Achiuwa depending on if Toronto wants to tear it down.
But now I'm wondering why Demetrius Jackson is on this list for some reason under Celtics cap.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html
To argue against my own post for a moment (fascinating reading, I know): I suppose putting Hauser and Pritchard out there serves the purpose of basically reducing the game to 3-on-3 for stretches of time. The defense has to stick to those two guys, they don't create or do much, but when you can fill out the rest of the lineup with one half of your six all-star calibre players and rest the other half, it works decently for all involved. And maybe provides the optimal time for a player like JB a chance to scratch the iso-ball itch with the floor spaced.I'm really not down on Hauser. I just think that if you were drafting this team from scratch and had the top 7 guys defined, you wouldn't think, "for our next pick, we should load up on more three-point shooting." He seemed more integral to the team coming into last season, when the overall 3pt accuracy and spacing was more of a question mark.
This is where scouting comes into play. The player needs to be more of a banger and alright with being the clear 3rd big man on the totem pole (so probably someone that's older or not playing immediately for a new contract). The personality type is very important because you don't want to bring someone in that disrupts the chemistry and heirarchy.Jalen Smith isn't what I would call a "banger". Also, as you point out, IND isn't going to give him away and POBOS isn't trading any assrts for him.
Also, Miami is a particularly disciplined team that knows the Celtics' personnel well. They were a lot more attentive to not leaving Hauser than random January opponent will be.To argue against my own post for a moment (fascinating reading, I know): I suppose putting Hauser and Pritchard out there serves the purpose of basically reducing the game to 3-on-3 for stretches of time. The defense has to stick to those two guys, they don't create or do much, but when you can fill out the rest of the lineup with one half of your six all-star calibre players and rest the other half, it works decently for all involved. And maybe provides the optimal time for a player like JB a chance to scratch the iso-ball itch with the floor spaced.
As a hot take, this is the right thread for it. But the minutes to date could also be Joe trying to get these guys used to playing with each other. If we're still talking about big minutes for the 5+1 in December, I'll get on this train with you.The bench has been a mess, really the only negative so far this season, and Mazzulla needs to prioritize figuring that out rather than going the KC Jones route of just riding the starters until/inless the break down. I don't fully trust him to do that, but we shall see.
What specifically would you have done differently to this point? They've been going 9-deep, and Tatum played one 41 minute game in a week.The bench has been a mess, really the only negative so far this season, and Mazzulla needs to prioritize figuring that out rather than going the KC Jones route of just riding the starters until/inless the break down. I don't fully trust him to do that, but we shall see.
Not sure, but my point was more forward looking.What specifically would you have done differently to this point? They've been going 9-deep, and Tatum played one 41 minute game in a week.
Was just looking at his game log so far. Woof.NBA-wide hot take: Miami should trade Butler now (though I hope they don't). He looks a bit toasty.
He started off pretty hot last season and in '21-'22 he was great one game then mediocre the next early on. In any case, I don't think he'll fall completely off and will be close to his typical averages by the end. But it won't be enough for this Heat team without a bit more help.Doesn’t Butler always start slow and play poorly after extended rest?
Fun Butler fact: Before this year, his career ppg in October was 20.1. October is the highest scoring month of his career (for the regular season at least).Doesn’t Butler always start slow and play poorly after extended rest?
Interesting. I thought it was the opposite. Not sure where I got that perception.Fun Butler fact: Before this year, his career ppg in October was 20.1. October is the highest scoring month of his career.
I think the bench has two distinct problems . First, Hauser and Pritchard have not played up to expectations. Second, they don't work as a unit because it's almost entirely comprised of complementary players brought in to complement the Top 6 but lacking the NBA tools to work together as a unit 7-11. Other benches may have an emerging young player or a veteran scorer in their ranks that can create their own shot. This Celtics team has used those types of assets to acquire the Top 6 they have. Now they have a couple energy guys, a couple floor spacers, a tall guy that can knockdown a jumpshot, a ballhandler that's more of a shooter, and a ball handler who isn't very good at it. These are all guys who can fit in and contribute around the Top 6, but they are not guys that fit together as a unit.The bench has been a mess, really the only negative so far this season, and Mazzulla needs to prioritize figuring that out rather than going the KC Jones route of just riding the starters until/inless the break down. I don't fully trust him to do that, but we shall see.
There's something in what you're saying here. And it seems consistent with CJM's approach to have starters on the floor always and to spread them around with those role players s.t. we never have the old-school situation of "the bench is in, the starters are out". In that old school "bench unit" approach, you are correct that our bench is poorly constructed for that. I just don't think that Joe intends to play it that way, excepting blowouts like last night of course.I think the bench has two distinct problems . First, Hauser and Pritchard have not played up to expectations. Second, they don't work as a unit because it's almost entirely comprised of complementary players brought in to complement the Top 6 but lacking the NBA tools to work together as a unit 7-11. Other benches may have an emerging young player or a veteran scorer in their ranks that can create their own shot. This Celtics team has used those types of assets to acquire the Top 6 they have. Now they have a couple energy guys, a couple floor spacers, a tall guy that can knockdown a jumpshot, a ballhandler that's more of a shooter, and a ball handler who isn't very good at it. These are all guys who can fit in and contribute around the Top 6, but they are not guys that fit together as a unit.
Yes, Kornet looks like total garbage. That's the easiest position to upgrade, so I assume it will happen at some point.Agree with the above that our bench as a unit will never look that great, and that that fact doesn't really matter. Still, Hauser and Pritchard both have to shoot 40% from 3 for them to be useful bench players, and so far, they're 4-25. It's a long season and the Celtics shouldn't be overly concerned with their regular season record (none of the recent playoff teams have had too much trouble winning road playoff games) so they'll get a decently long rope as clearly the team thinks they are the 7th and 8th guys, but at some point Brissett/Stevens/Banton/Svi will get more run. Or Brad will have to make another move.
I'm less worried about Hauser/Pritchard than I am about Kornet and his spot. As the season progresses and Horford/KP get hurt or need rest the 3rd center spot will be more critical, and he's looked awful. Everyone noted that he looked slow in the preseason but honestly I thought that was largely because we now have another giant white guy on the court that happens to move unnaturally well for his size, and Kornet suffers in direct comparison. He's basically been the slowest guy on the court every time he's checked into an NBA game for his entire career, but it seems like he's always out of position now. Far worse than last year.
Yes, but before then we really have to let DeJesus try to make Quetanon happen.Yes, Kornet looks like total garbage. That's the easiest position to upgrade, so I assume it will happen at some point.
I was wondering if the starters had picked up a lot of speed playing with Porzingis, and never adjusted back to Kornet's speed, but it does feel like Kornet isn't as quick as last year.I'm less worried about Hauser/Pritchard than I am about Kornet and his spot. As the season progresses and Horford/KP get hurt or need rest the 3rd center spot will be more critical, and he's looked awful. Everyone noted that he looked slow in the preseason but honestly I thought that was largely because we now have another giant white guy on the court that happens to move unnaturally well for his size, and Kornet suffers in direct comparison. He's basically been the slowest guy on the court every time he's checked into an NBA game for his entire career, but it seems like he's always out of position now. Far worse than last year.
Agree with all this and @jasail makes a good point about 7-12 not really being a functioning unit.Agree with the above that our bench as a unit will never look that great, and that that fact doesn't really matter. Still, Hauser and Pritchard both have to shoot 40% from 3 for them to be useful bench players, and so far, they're 4-25. It's a long season and the Celtics shouldn't be overly concerned with their regular season record (none of the recent playoff teams have had too much trouble winning road playoff games) so they'll get a decently long rope as clearly the team thinks they are the 7th and 8th guys, but at some point Brissett/Stevens/Banton/Svi will get more run. Or Brad will have to make another move.
I'm less worried about Hauser/Pritchard than I am about Kornet and his spot. As the season progresses and Horford/KP get hurt or need rest the 3rd center spot will be more critical, and he's looked awful. Everyone noted that he looked slow in the preseason but honestly I thought that was largely because we now have another giant white guy on the court that happens to move unnaturally well for his size, and Kornet suffers in direct comparison. He's basically been the slowest guy on the court every time he's checked into an NBA game for his entire career, but it seems like he's always out of position now. Far worse than last year.
It's literally the thread title. This should be a safe space for posters with irrational/knee-jerk reactionsI know its the hot takes thread but, its been 3 games guys.
I guess I'm affirming the high heat levels of the hot takes in here.It's literally the thread title. This should be a safe space for posters with irrational/knee-jerk reactions
We do have the preseason.
Plus nobody is commenting on rookies. We have years of watching these players to see how they are moving (in Kornet's case)
They had 2 out and another playing injured in the 2nd half when it fell apart.When they have one starter out, this team is not great.
Al Horford is pretty close to done.
Yeah, their inability to meed adversity is why they always crumble in the playoffs when things get hard. No wait, they're 8-2 when facing elimination over the last 2 years. The Tatum/Brown lead Celtics has never been a team unable to get off the mat when hit with adversity, if anything the reverse has been their problem (playing down to opponents and not being able to finish teams off).I hate to say it, but the Tatum/Brown duo has always had a very strong "front-runner" vibe. The way they didn't threaten whatsoever in the fourth is pretty on-brand for what I've seen over the last four years. When they meet adversity, I don't expect them to find ways to keep the team afloat. That's a problem for a team that's short on depth and has durability questions.
As for the depth issues, the only way forward is to trade Jaylen for multiple pieces imo. See if you can get an athletic rotation big/ catch and shoot 3-D wing for Brown when he's able to be moved. There's just too much durability questions and too few NBA talents on this roster to withstand long absences to any of the top six.