This. I am thoroughly confused with the weird judgmentalism towards actually spending money on payroll.
Were you a big fan of the Steinbrenner Yankees? Getting all the free agents they want is reminding people of that and they're reacting negatively.
That's not at all what I'm doing at all, didn't mean it to come off that way, and as I said I'm not going to go deep here .There are a few levels to my thoughts, but begrudging the players isn't part of it. And as I said, I know I'm an outlier. I concede again that I should have used a word like "overkill" rather than "greed" initially, but it doesn't materially change the way I feel about the big picture.
I'm not a fan of any iteration of Yankees.
Yeah, honestly something really strange is going on inside the Boston Red Sox organization. First, we were in on the top FA arms. Then we weren't - it was the next tier dudes the team could "afford." So, we got one (though maybe Giolito is actually tier 3 rather than tier 2), with the suggestion more was on the way - a tier 2 guy (Storman)? - nope. Another tier 3 guy (Paxton)?, nope. A trade using some of our redundancies? Nope. Then we'd get a RHH power bat (Teoscar, Soler). Nope, not that either, without moving some contracts, which hasn't happened.
Say what you want about Steinbrenner, but he tried. Was I pissed that every FA always seemed to choose NY for a time? Yes. Did I laugh when some of those acquisitions failed to work? Yes. But honestly, I was more mad that Steinbrenner did what he needed to (money, trading prospects, whatever) to get the guys he needed to field the best team he could, consistently. He leveraged his resources - money, the appeal of NY, the appeal of the Yankees organization, whatever - in such a way that I can be upset that he had those advantages, but not upset that he used them. Furthermore, that highlights the... quirkiness, to be euphemistic, of the Sox, the third most valuable team in the league apparently having money problems. If Steinbrenner ran the Sox, in 2019 he would have kept everyone (except Price, who he would have banished to the As or something on principle) and re-loaded. The results were not always there, but I don't see how anyone can be mad at Steinbrenner for trying year in and year out to put the absolute best team on the field that he could.
Different conversation but yeah.
That’s fair.
Yeah, I understand where CR67 is coming from. It’s generally not good for the game when all this top talent is concentrated on one team and the economics of the game absolutely are gross. If anything, the potential greatness of Yamamoto almost gets diluted a bit sharing the spotlight with Ohtani. Imagine the 2 of them facing off in 2025 postseason instead of being Games 1 and 2.
I think that Boston presents a great opportunity for him to promote himself and what he believes in. There is also familiarity with the team, Breslow and a shared philosophy between the two.
FWIW, I don’t think you’re an outlier. Maybe on SoSH you are. But in the gen pop I hear constant complaints about payrolls and athlete salaries. (And very little about owner’s profits, which is confounding and a real sign o’ the times).I would, though I'd hate it less,. Everyone's a hypocrite sometimes.
Seriously, if I start following minor league/Cape League ball exclusively it won't be because the Sox don't spend enough, it will be because I'm sickened by the whole ridiculous goddamn set up.
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"How can anyone be grossed out by what the Dodgers are doing?"
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I hate the fucking rules, hate the economics, and understand I'm an outlier. Not expecting a lot of agreement, and that's fine. Not the thread to unpack all that, but maybe I'll start one sometime soon. And I don't mind being challenged, it's just a strongly held opinion. Here's just not the place to go too deep.
Also, I did agree that "overkill" may be a better word here, but semantics aside, I'm being entirely honest with my thoughts here.
Speaking for myself, working within the system is always necessary. That's why I agreed that "greed" was the wrong word, and agreed on "overkill" as far as what the Dodgers are doing. And that was partly an emotional response in the context of them signing Paxton. I didn't mean to create this sidetrack, that's my bad.
Like I said in my post that I think you must have read, steaming rolling the regular season and winning through the playoffs is still fun regardless of the cost. And yeah... I still don't like that super high payroll does tend to equal winning. So while I loved 2018, yes... yes it did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm curious what the cost for the actual product on the field was for 2018 though.... IINM, the Sox were still paying for Pablo, Pedroia and Hanley even.
Dunno, the game keeps changing, the top three payrolls last year missed the playoffs completely and the Orioles won 101 games with an A's-like payroll.
Can you clarify the bold? Just a bit confused on the wording, but I think you are saying that deferrals should be accelerated to count while the player is playing. I know the NHL had a similar issue awhile back where players on the wrong side of 30 would sign 12 year contracts, knowing that they weren't going to be playing those last few years but it allowed management to smooth out the cap hit at the cost of some dead money in years where those players were going to be sitting home. The NHL ended up doing away with those types of contracts though.
FWIW I don't think that it's a hijack. It's an understandable reaction to be stunned by what the Dodgers are doing. It's unusual for one team to shoot the moon in this way.
Honestly, I don't think it's THAT hard to see what could very possibly be happening.
I am sorry I was joking a bit there, I meant to add a picture of Lenin or a video of Soviet National Anthem. Tone and the internet.
I think if you were to put betting odds on the 2025 manager, there is much lower odds on Bailey vs Cora. I think he's your next manager.
This is where I am.
Out of curiosity - why don't you like the deferrals? Are you going to have the same view in 2034 when 39 year old Ohtani and 35 year old YY are collectively counting $98 mil towards the Dodgers CBT calculation? The Dodgers are willing to take a hit in the future for success now and I honestly don't see a problem with it. Again, this is something that is perfectly fine for the Sox (or anyone) to do, they just choose not to.
Yeah, what killed me was that I think without the Dodgers swooping in, there's a great chance he comes back at a reasonable price. Once he had that offer, I don't blame the guy a bit. Good for him, he already came back and gave us his all on the cheap last year when he didn't have to.
) or terrified they could be the next 2023 Mets. I'm thinking a good, anxious uncomfortable mix of both. Maybe now the fans will stay after the 7th...
Rob Bradford tweeted out this morning that Paxton really valued staying on the West Coast. It seems like he was waiting for one of those teams (Seattle, LA) to step up and make a comparable offer to the Sox
I spend too much time reading and rarely comment, but I must say you have absolutely nailed my biggest question...
Bailey and Breslow are legitimately best friends. Like brothers. This isn’t hard to understand.
On the first part, agree totally. I don't blame them for thinking it, even though I haven't thought it for some time. (Though I clearly admit this is my bias toward the farm system, I'm not saying they should have thought like I do, to be clear). Unfortunately, a heck of a lot of the teams in baseball have high upside middle infielders and outfielders and very little of baseball has cost controlled starting pitching to deal.
Bailey said he reached out to O'Halloran right after the season and weeks before Breslow was hired. He was leaving SF regardless because his young family lives in Connecticut.
Yep look at the recent Michael Busch trade. Cubs acquired a major league ready, consensus top 50 prospect and all it cost them was an upside 19 year old A ball pitcher.
That was a 40 man space thing though more than anything, NYY made a trade with LAD to clear 40 man space for them earlier and they got a lefty MLB reliever and a AAA SS for a AA SS (who did not need a 40 man spot).
Ha, thanks for clarifying, but you were perfectly fair given what I gave you to work with regardless. If anything I want players to make more across the board and the fans to get a break, but I'll put the pipe down now.
Woodruff is probably waiting to see Montgomery and Snell lands to see if he wants to grab some guarantee now if it is available. That said grabbing him for a multi year with an option if you can would be a fabulous deal. 2/20 with an 20 million options and a buyout ~5 million. so 25/2 with an option for 40/3 would be great.
There's even more to add to the confusion, when you consider that Werner also said the following this weekend:
I'd be a lot more optomistic in Giolito if 2023 was his only bad year. He was also bad in 2022 (even if not quite as homer prone); hes had a history of 350 inning over two years where he was anywhere from bad to terrible including an entire season (2022) when he was not traded at all or in the process of gettting divorced.
Worth noting here that the White Sox had an exceptionally bad defense in 2022, particularly the work of a few lugnuts in the outfield. Giolito's BABIP has always ranged between .255 and .274 over the full seasons of his career, but that year it was way up to .340.
True, but Giolito also has a career ERA of 4.43 and a career FIP of 4.44, so it would appear defense has been a neutral factor over his career. His FIP with the White Sox in 2023 was, you guessed it...4.43.
