Depending on how long he's shut down, this probably means he can start the season on the IL (and do a rehab assignment) and that can buy the team a bit more time to decide on him and Slaten.
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Yep. Hernandez is basically a left-fielder only at this point, and he may be worse than Yoshida defensively. In the meantime, they've got Duran, O'Neill, Refsnyder, Abreu, and probably Rafaella to juggle this year, with Roman Anthony perhaps ready next year.
I'm sure someone will propose "just trading" Yoshida, and that same kind of person will say "just trade Hernandez if there's a problem in 2 years."
But if it were all that effective to lateral players willy-nilly (i.e., for a fair return), Breslow would have done so by now.
View: https://twitter.com/bossportsgordo/status/1761871886206562729?s=46
Interesting quote from Breslow who has become the king at speaking without actually saying anything candidly.
Interesting quote from Breslow who has become the king at speaking without actually saying anything candidly.
I believe both of these things are true. He'll probably take meetings with the Dodgers, Mets, and Giants, (among others) too. And then he'll return and remain a Yankee in for the remainder of his productive MLB career.
The nugget I took from that is he acknowledged they are working under budget constraints.
Yes, but when the Padres, New York teams and Philly all decide to stop spending like drunken sailors after their bacchanal last winter, it's suddenly a lot thinner.
How much money? All these reports are vague and seem to be twisting words from the original sources. Are we supposed to assume the total guaranteed amount was greater or just the annual value. Unless we know the exact dollar amount it seems difficult to assume YY preferred destination over everything else.
The quote (apparently from multiple sources) was "offered more money than any team," which as far as reporting goes on these things is generally understood to be total guarantee. Of course the Philly offer could have been $325.1m but it seems strange that you'd get multiple sources confirming a higher guarantee unless it was actually substantive.
View: https://twitter.com/craigmish/status/1761942264740217268?s=46
Unbelievable that Cooper signed as a NRI. Seemed like someone who would have had a real shot at contributing with this roster.
You have legit major leagues begging to be on rosters right now. What a weird year.
Unbelievable that Cooper signed as a NRI. Seemed like someone who would have had a real shot at contributing with this roster.
You have legit major leagues begging to be on rosters right now. What a weird year.
He probably correctly feels that there is little chance of playing behind Casas. On the Cubs he is behind Busch who may not be a legit major league player. And Cooper could find himself with way more playing time.
Is he a legit major leaguer at this point in his career? He's a below average fielder and a below average hitter. So he's signing with a club where he has a chance to get some playing time, the other major 1B options being worse.
Cooper’s primary position is currently occupied by the Cubs’ top trade acquisition and potentially occupied by Chicago’s top domestic free agent signing once its top prospect proves prepared to assume the starting center fielder role. That seems ever-so-slightly more challenging than having to compete with such titans of the sport as Bobby Dalbec and Rob Refsnyder.
Then why did they offer him 2 years? I don't get your argument.
Meanwhile we get a report the Red Sox offered $300 million to YY.
Roster Resource has Cooper already slated as part of a platoon at first base with the Cubs. I stand by my argument that he gets more at bats platooning with Busch than he would have gotten playing behind Casas. We can agree to disagree if you think otherwise.
That is interesting.
i wonder if he means the trade of an outfielder now that certain teams missed out on Belli
I dont think he would speak that way if it involved a sox player. More likely just a Breslowian weird way of generically saying that the deal probably means other signing will happen.
Cooper isn't looking to compete with Dalbec or Refsnyder. He's looking to compete with Casas. And that's not a fair contest. Pretty clearly he sees that and sees a preferable path in Chicago.
Barring injury, is there a compelling reason for Casas to not play 150+ games this season? Probably not. So if you're a free agent that primarily plays 1B, do you want to sign on where you're likely only looking at 30-35 starts (assuming some DH time) unless Casas gets hurt? If you're the Sox, do you need to bring on a dedicated back up 1B and keep him on the 26-man all year for that role?
As the roster is constructed now, the bench is McGuire, Reyes, Refsnyder and one of Dalbec, Valdez, or Rafaela. With three spots occupied by guys with no options, having the flexibility to rotate that last spot as need dictates seems preferable. Ideally, if you want to upgrade from Dalbec, you get someone else with an option who can also be stashed in Worcester when necessary and maintain the flexibility of that 26th roster spot.
Seriously?
Because not all contracts are equal. Getting a guy for 2/10 is a different proposition than agreeing to pay 3/75 for the same guy. Nobody knows what the numbers and years were in this particular negotiation, but there wasn't a meeting of the minds between Hernandez and the Sox on the: years/money/role/terms. (Perhaps he wanted a no-trade or guaranteed time in the field or something.)
The Sox valued YY differently than they valued Hernandez. Probably because he was younger and better and a pitcher.
Seems like "WTF does that mean?" would have been an appropriate followup question.
Getting a guy for 2/10 is a different proposition than agreeing to pay 3/75 for the same guy
Seriously? That isn't close to what we know about the negotiation and you know it. The example is abssured. The evidence is the only issue was years, not salary per year.
The Sox valued YY differently than they valued Hernandez.
Wow, thank you for the explanation. I had no idea that they valued them differently.
Seriously? That isn't close to what we know about the negotiation and you know it. The example is abssured. The evidence is the only issue was years, not salary per year.
The Sox valued YY differently than they valued Hernandez.
Wow, thank you for the explanation. I had no idea that they valued them differently.
Straight out of Chat GBT.Seems like "WTF does that mean?" would have been an appropriate follow-up question.
Best news of the offseason.
View: https://twitter.com/buster_espn/status/1762095734009262427?s=46
Buster with a weirdly worded tweet.
They are still talking
Buster with a weirdly worded tweet.
They are still talking
“If signed to a long term deal, could be part of the staff rotation”.
LOL yeah I’d think that if they signed Jordan Freaking Montgomery to a longterm deal there’s a pretty good chance he could be part of the pitching staff - maybe even in the starting rotation if everything breaks right for him.
LOL
LOL yeah I’d think that if they signed Jordan Freaking Montgomery to a longterm deal there’s a pretty good chance he could be part of the pitching staff - maybe even in the starting rotation if everything breaks right for him.
LOL
Offering Teo 2 years but not 3 makes me think they have no real intention of moving Duran (hear me out).
A 2 year deal doesn't block their #1/#2 prospect in Anthony because if he is ready next year the final year of a Teo deal is easily movable. A 3 year deal wouldn't be nearly as easy to move.
In the case of a 3 year deal, if Anthony is somehow ready in 25, it leaves Duran as a far more movable asset than Teo. Teo is a nice player, but not one you are planning a future around. Duran and Anthony both potentially are.
Comparing Teo to YY is like comparing apples to a dolphin, though.
Not a big surprise that the Sox would have interest in him on a minor league deal. Also not a surprise that he'd choose the Cubs over the Sox if the offers were more or less the same.
Shrug. You're the one who responded to my post and asked me. Many times the obvious answer is the obvious answer - and there's not really much I can do about that, sarcasm notwithstanding.
As to your first point above, if what you're saying is true, and not just internet conjecture, then the Sox obviously didn't think Hernandez was worth acquiring with the third or fourth or fifth year attached. That's because players get older and decline, or are at a greater risk to be injured over a longer term contract.
As to the second, if you're capable of distinguishing why Hernandez and YY are two completely different players who would demand two completely different contracts. . .why did you bring up YY in the first place?
I'm guessing you're taking this tack because you might have a completely different point you want to make. If that's the case, and you have something to say, just say it.
FWIW, I interpreted the Breslow quote as meaning he hadn't seen the price/years drop yet on Montgomery.
What he said was "I think a lot has been made about the constraints or parameters that we are or aren't working under."
And it's true, a lot has been made about that.
I think Olney was trying to convey the idea of a pillow / short term deal vs the idea of a long term deal. Oddly worded, but at least that is how I read it.
As much as I want Montgomery on the Red Sox, I really hope for something (anything) with more than one freaking year of team control. Similar to how I liked the idea of signing Giolito, but don't in any way like the contract structure (for the Sox). I think the example I used was I'd far rather have the pitcher of Giolito than Lugo, but I'd far rather have Lugo on his deal in Boston than Giolito on his deal.
I'm really surprised the Red Sox were not willing to offer a major league deal; Garrett Cooper seems like a huge upgrade over Bobby Dalbec in a similar role.
Yes and no. Better defense at first, but can't cover third and that's significant downside. Better bat overall, but still a platoon guy. I think you can do better.
Solano and Montgomery would be a terrific way to close this offseason. I still think Solano finds somewhere else where he has a path to more playing time, but he'd be very nice to have. I was already really optimistic about this team's upside if a solid mix of Grissom, Story, O'Neill, Abreu, Duran, and Rafaela hit, and a few of the pitchers take a leap, but adding Montgomery would really have us in a terrific place.
I've refrained from posting anything in the "predictions" thread until we see where Monty (or Snell, but admittedly I prefer Monty) end up signing.
Put one of them on the Sox, and I think they're a contender for basically all the wild card spots. Don't add either, and I think they struggle to win 77 games. Huge swing, at least in my opinion.
Not sure on the "doing better", so I'll just take your word for it, but I think there are plenty of other options out there as far as RH bat that can play multiple positions IF they can sign a legit starting pitcher. If they can't, it's not like Garret Cooper (or whatever other player) matters.
The only way to get JM long term is to offer him a huge deal, though. Otherwise he will take the pillow (with a few player options) similar to what Bellinger got. Not sure that’s a great deal for the Sox, but take what you can get, I guess? Would imagine they would try to be creative and do something similar in structure to the Story contract.
We’ll see of course, but I think JM is much less likely to take a pillow deal than, say, Bellinger. With Bellinger you’re looking for him to prove consistency. Montgomery’s not going to enter a better FA situation than he is now, coming off a 4-win season and World Series heroics, and having no QO attached. He’ll be a year older too, and has definitely been an injury risk in the past.
I’d also think if he’s going to take a pillow contract, it’d likely not be in an extreme hitters’ park like ours, it’d probably be back in St. Louis or something.
"The Bellinger signing clearly shows that the market for the remaining free agents isn't anything close to what they were initially demanding but Boras and Jordan Montgomery are still pretending that they are gonna get 6/$150M so we have to wait a little longer."
4 years/$95M with opt outs after years 2 and 3. 5th year vested at $27.5M. Would this work for both sides?
I'm reminded of that piece in The Athletic from November about how Breslow led the Cubs' pursuit of Jameson Taillon, who of course is close friends with Jordan Montgomery.
https://theathletic.com/5072351/2023/11/20/craig-breslow-free-agency-blueprint/
Taillon and Montgomery are different dudes, but it's possible this sort of thing is appealing to free agent pitchers in general, and the familiarity couldn't hurt. Of course, the Sox stiffest competition for Montgomery are the Rangers, whose GM is also a fellow MLB relief journeyman like Breslow, so there may not be much of a distinction.
The Story opt out is after 2025, yes? (https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/trevor-story-18377/#:~:text=Current Contract,a total salary of $22,500,000.), so the team is guaranteed 4 years of control - something I'd be more than fine with for Montgomery.
Honestly, even after 3 years is fine. I'm just admittedly sick and tired of the band aid approach to starting pitching where the team does nothing but shuffle the deck chairs every off-season. I think that has been a major pain point for the lack of success of the team over the past 4 years. To be clear, I'm saying I think the philosophy is bad, I'm not necessarily blaming the "cook" but the "recipe."
Though I tend to agree with @chawson on this - that there are far better (and more likely) places for JM to take a pillow contract than Boston. Hopefully the Sox get the player to anchor the top half of their rotation (with Bello) for the next several seasons.
I'd think Boras would still be able to negotiate an opt-out after year 1 if the total guarantee gets that low. If he can't, then maybe he's mortal after all.
I am looking forward to the Red Sox signing Montgomery and the narrative in this thread shifting from “The Sox are too cheap, Henry wants to sell, we’re the new Tampa” to “Henry only did this because of the public outcry” and “they’re still cheap, just worried about NESN subscriptions” or the like.
That's right in the ballpark of what I was thinking, except I probably wouldn't offer an opt-out after year 2, since year 3 is when the big 3 prospects are most likely to be here and hitting their strides. I would offer to vest the fifth year if he hits 170 innings in year 4, with a buyout of 5M if it doesn't vest and he doesn't exercise the option (so 4/100 guaranteed). I'd also throw in an incentive if he's top 5 CY.
I suspect the sticking point is that he's still looking for at least five years guaranteed. There are probably a few teams that would be in the mix if he were willing to take a deal like Bellinger's (3 years with 2 opt-outs), but he probably prefers a higher/longer guarantee at this age and stage of his career.
I have to disagree there. We probably aren't in playoff contention without adding JM, sure. But it's still baseball, things happen. 2021 didn't have an overwhelmingly powerful rotation but they were good at staying healthy. A little good luck instead of bad goes a long way, but it helps to reduce the number of guys on the roster who are actively losing you games.
It's going to be something similar to this. He's going to get at least 4 years of guaranteed dollars. I'd assume a lot of the talk is around when the opt outs are placed. The Red Sox can't agree to a 1 year opt out, which I am sure Boras is pushing for.
Nothing will happen here until Boras figures our what the hell to do with Snell
I agree, he will either want 1 year or 5+. Something that locks the player in for 2-3, without an opt out after 1, probably isn’t appealing. I’d guess 5/130, with 30M the first year, and a player opt out after 1 is what Boras would probably be gunning for, minimum. Maybe there’s room to have an opt out that triggers after three only if a minimum # of IP are met? So, it protects the player (with 5 guaranteed) but also allows him an opportunity to hit FA again if he’s effective and healthy the first few years of the deal?
From where I sit, the reason for this is that the Sox FO have wanted the young armsto leap forward and stick in the rotation. These "band aid" types (Richards, Wacha, Hill, Kluber, Paxton to some extent) are much easier to jettison than a guy on a long contract.
I'm not arguing that it's been wholly successful, but this strategy has worked to some extent. They've clearly been invested in Whitlock and Houck sticking in the rotation, and there have been some successes there. Bello and Crawford's development have been really positive things for the org, and I'd argue that one or both might not have had the same opportunity to develop at the major league level had we signed a guy like Stroman two years ago, or Eovaldi last year.
The way injuries shaked out, sure, of course those arms would have helped. And it's complicated matters that we've had to reserve a spot in the rotation for Sale that he's seldom used. But in terms of strategy, I think they have prioritized getting MLB starts for Bello, Crawford, Houck and Whitlock.
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