10/12/15 B's vs Lightning
- Thread starter drtooth
- Start date
The team in front of him is shit, but Tuukka's been pretty lousy. He was decent last year, but nothing special.
I'm still putting the over/under of his murder rate at 0.5 this year.
I'm still putting the over/under of his murder rate at 0.5 this year.
Listen - no one is going to debate Julien is a good coach for the right team. And when people say Fore Julien! It's not because they believe he sucks as a coach.
But is it time to admit he might not be a good coach for THIS team?
But is it time to admit he might not be a good coach for THIS team?
Good news is there aren't enough people left in the arena for the young players to hear the boo's.
They looked good in the first period. They need to maintain that energy and execution for three, though.Luis Taint said:
They need top end talent, skill & speed. They're going to have to suck for 2-3 years to get those guys in the draft. I'm fine with sitting through a rebuild after seeing a cup, another finals appearance and 6 years of watching a contender.
They don't have the talent to hang with a team that good for 3 periods. The effort was definitely there today, just like the other two games. They're just not good enough right now.InstantKarmma said:
I think an organizational decision needs to get made that he's either safe and should go into development mode or he's going to keep trying to grind out what he can. If they're not willing to go the former route, they should have dumped him already.TheShynessClinic said:
Who is a good coach for this sort of a team? They have 1.5-2 NHL caliber defensemen. Is there an equivalent of Brad Stevens hanging around somewhere?
TheShynessClinic said:
TSC - I don't disagree that players may be tuning out Julien at this point, but IMO the primarily difference this year is that Julien always at at least a competent blue line. Here's the weakest blue line he had ('07-'08):
Chara (age 30), Wideman, Ference, Ward, M. Stuart, Alberts/Hnidy
Comparing what's available from today's game:
Old Chara > New Chara
Wideman = C. Miller
Ference < Krug
Ward > Morrow at this point
Stuart > McQuaid
Alberts/Hnidy > K. Miller
hell, even Bobby Allen > Matt Irwin
There are at least 4 areas where the worst blue line he's had to date was better than this one IMO. Tuukka obviously hasn't stepped up, but he's also playing in front of a completely unorganized d-corps that becomes frantic when pressure and cycling are applied. The transition game will pick up as Trotman, C. Miller, and Morrow get experience, but right now it's Krug and Krug alone. He's great jumping into the play and he'd have a spot on any blue line in the league, but he isn't a #1-2 guy yet.
The scoring isn't far out of line with years past, the power play looks terrific, and they're generating opportunities and getting cycles in the offensive zone. The Julien system however needs to start from the net out, and the foundation is fundamentally flawed for me.
If they're really going to go full-sell, they'd need to absolutely move Kelly/Eriksson, consider moving Chara/Marchand/Rask, and expose Seidenberg to waivers. Bergeron/Krug are untradeable for me, and Krejci would need an above-market offer as he looks to be on the way to re-establishing his value.
3 game losing streak, it happens. Slow your role.TheShynessClinic said:
You're the first jump on other posters overreacting in other forums (BBTL). Step back and relax, let's give this team at least the first month to figure it out before we bring out the pitchforks.
TheShynessClinic said:
Is it possible to coach a dumpster fire? This team has gaping holes so bad they'd be censored on Japanese television.
I don't post in BBTL, you're confusing me with someone else.FL4WL3SS said:
And this isn't a 3 game reaction. I've been saying for a while Julien isn't the kind of coach needed to coach a rebuild.
Yes, he doesn't have a lot of back-end talent. My concern is he won't have the patience to stick with some of the younger kids in hopes of squeaking out a win here or there to keep his job, as opposed to letting the young kids learn, even if it means a terrible season.
Not enough experienced talent -- and no confidence. As soon as they're scored on and the other team gets energized, the Bruins get spooked. Mistakes follow.Salem's Lot said:
This could still be a decent team later this season, if the new guys and the young guys start to figure things out and play to potential.
But until Sweeney gets them some help on D and Claude drops Hayes to the 4th line, "decent" is optimistic.
I don't think the Bruins are talent-less. They've got talent. I'm a believer in the group of forwards they've got. I mean, we've got a top 9 good enough to (when healthy) push Chris Kelly into a 4th line roll. Rask is still an elite goalie, despite the rough start. The D is young and experiencing growing pains. They're trying to move Krug into a legitimate top 4 role. Morrow and Colin Miller are getting their first real taste of NHL action.
They aren't complete, but they also aren't hopeless. Any talk of tanking or rebuilding is off the mark too. The current window is the Bergeron and Krejci window. If they go for the full bottoming out, by the time the draft picks and prospects develop, Bergeron and Krejci would be over the hill. It doesn't make sense unless you move those two, in addition to a guy like Chara and start completely fresh.
They aren't complete, but they also aren't hopeless. Any talk of tanking or rebuilding is off the mark too. The current window is the Bergeron and Krejci window. If they go for the full bottoming out, by the time the draft picks and prospects develop, Bergeron and Krejci would be over the hill. It doesn't make sense unless you move those two, in addition to a guy like Chara and start completely fresh.
I probably should've said "in their prime" talent. Bergeron & Krejci fit that mold but everyone else is too young, too old or not all that good.
You don't post in BBTL? Now you're just lying. I may be dumb as a rock, but I can still work the search function.TheShynessClinic said:
I think booting Julien this early is reactionary at best. The man has played the same defense-heavy style since he's come to Boston; if anything, it should be Sweeney who should take the heat for knowing that and still serving up the steaming hot pile of D-men we have now. If they decided they're going to make a concerted effort to get younger on the back end and that's why they didn't sign anyone on the blue line, then maybe they should have considered letting Claude go too, not as a firing but as an organizational fit issue. Maybe that's what Sweeney wanted but got overruled. But even if that's the case, he knew Claude was his coach before the draft started and he actively made the D-corps worse instead of working to his coach's strength.
If Claude goes before the end of the year, it should only be as a mutual thing. Both sides recognize they're rebuilding and the team is gonna go for a different style in the interim, no hard feelings, we'll grab some drinks on road trips. If Claude gets canned (and subsequently torched in the media the way it seems every big name coach in Boston does), I will be supremely disappointed.
If Claude goes before the end of the year, it should only be as a mutual thing. Both sides recognize they're rebuilding and the team is gonna go for a different style in the interim, no hard feelings, we'll grab some drinks on road trips. If Claude gets canned (and subsequently torched in the media the way it seems every big name coach in Boston does), I will be supremely disappointed.
There are exactly 2 guys above 30 in the group of forwards and they're playing less than meaningful minutes (Kelly and Talbot) - Bergeron and Ericksson are exactly 30 and they have a pair of 29 year olds. The defense has a similar story (except Chara plays a lot of minutes).Salem's Lot said:
It's a fairly young roster. I'm willing to give it more than 3 games to gel.
Outside of an occasional gamethread post? No, not really. My knowledge of football is even less than that of hockey.FL4WL3SS said:
Salem's Lot said:
I want to think this way but I just can't bring myself to the point of complacency here. Every condition you mention has been self-inflicted. We saw all that nice stuff, yes, and don't have any innate right to see a good team every single year -- but during and after that run of success they had top-end talent sitting in their lap and let it go. 2-3 years might not even be enough to see significant contributions out of the three-straight draft picks part of our future was already mortgaged for.
I'm not gonna read too much into three games but only because I cannot feel anything towards this franchise right now. I really think we're at the very beginning of a dark, dark period.
What do you want them to do? They already brought in a new GM. I'm willing to give him a couple years to rebuild, just like we did when they hired Chiarelli. I'm all for playing the young guys to see if they get better, even if that means we're in the lottery for a couple years. Every team has to go through a rebuild at some point.gingerbreadmann said:
Salem's Lot said:
Now? I really don't know. Looks like a rebuild is in order sooner or later, but they are sort of half-assing it if they're gonna try to keep (and waste) Krejci and Bergeron and Rask through all this. It doesn't bode too well, is all I'm saying.
4 months ago? Not rebuild. Build around young talent like Dougie Hamilton, who is the exact type of player you are hoping to get from this scenario within the next 4 years or so. Was that part of the rebuilding master plan? How about trading a 3rd round pick for a 4th-line goon type player who's not going to improve anytime soon?
I don't have the answers right now. I know it does no good to ruminate on the past, but what the front office (old and new GMs included -- I don't think the FO's mindset has really changed much here) has done to itself over the last 2 years is catastrophic. I get the sense they want to rebuild but also don't want to let go of what's made us good for 7 years, and the result has been to force roster moves that have set us back rather than align for the future. From where we are now, yeah, this will be a long process and we can't do anything to speed it up or change it -- but I sure as hell don't have any faith in the people who got to this point in the first place.
And as has been said, forwards peak around age 25-27 in hockey. Bergeron, Krejci and Eriksson are declining unless they buck the trend. And two of those guys aren't good enough IMO to be worth a market-value contract for their 30+ years (very few are). They need the younger guys to get better and no one making $6m+ to fall off a cliff. May happen, may not.FL4WL3SS said:
Last year he was 8th in the league in EV SV% and played far more minutes than anyone in the top 10 (min 1500 minutes). I guess we can argue whether than is special but it's pretty dang good.Myt1 said: