2013-2014 Syracuse Basketball: Same Zone, New Conference

[DukeSox]

That's your own team's fault

Wait, you're doubling down on the UNC AD's joke? Yikes.

But ill play along - tell me how, after the game at midnight, the away team or refs or any driving fans were supposed to return home? You realize it's ATL v2.0 in RDU right know right?

 

[benhogan]

agreed.  I also was cursing when Christmas and Grant were in the game and Gbinije was on the bench for that last play...but I'm not complaining now.

Agree, think having Gbinije in, instead of Xmas, when you need to go the length of the floor in 4.4 seconds makes much more sense.  
 
But have to give credit to Jimmy for juggling a short bench. Although I'd like to see more (some) minutes for Roberson, Gbinije hit a big 3, played nice D, spelled 4 of the starters and is getting more comfortable.
 
Also, I got the feeling that Xmas and Grant both played a little more passive on defense without Keita available, which helped Pitt on the offensive boards. We really need a healthy Keita back so our bigs can play aggressive down low.

 

[ivanvamp]

Class of '94. What a great game. I've been rewatching those final 4.4 seconds over and over.

I miss Syracuse home games, though not living in Brewster my freshman year with all those prank fire alarms in the dead of winter.

 
What floor did you live on in Brewster your freshman year?  That would be '90-91, right?

 

[Doooweeeey!]

All right, I'll say it.  That shot was better, more important, tougher, what-have-you than the Pearl Washington half court winner against BC in the 80s (I witnessed it in person).
Both had about 4 seconds left on the clock.  Ennis was double-teamed and had to dribble up-court off an inbound.  Pearl took a rebound from a missed free throw, BC's defense wasn't necessarily set.  
 
Great game all around, and one I sure thought would go down as a loss.  Agree with benhogan about Xmas and Grant's D, they managed their games very well.
Loving this team.  More big games yet to play!

 

[Overlord]

What floor did you live on in Brewster your freshman year?  That would be '90-91, right?

Yes, I was there 90-91; I lived on Brewster 5. What floor were you?

 

[ivanvamp]

Yes, I was there 90-91; I lived on Brewster 5. What floor were you?

 
First.  Upperclassmen living there in a suite.  Kind of crazy at that point, but man we had a blast.  Moved back in from off campus (preferred on campus housing actually) and it was so much fun there.  Weird?  Maybe.  Fun?  Definitely.  We were serving as mentors to the freshmen.  One dude on our floor was a legit Satanist.  I remember this story.  Move-in day, that Satanist guy moves in first.  Big guy, about 6'4", really foreboding presence.  Scary looking guy.  He gets all moved in.  His roommate, some naive, happy-go-lucky kid from some small town, shows up with his eager parents.  They open the door.  It's pitch black, and the Satanist has all this Satanic stuff all over the room.  The parents and kid take one look, turn around, and leave.  Never saw them again.  

 

[Overlord]

First.  Upperclassmen living there in a suite.  Kind of crazy at that point, but man we had a blast.  Moved back in from off campus (preferred on campus housing actually) and it was so much fun there.  Weird?  Maybe.  Fun?  Definitely.  We were serving as mentors to the freshmen.  One dude on our floor was a legit Satanist.  I remember this story.  Move-in day, that Satanist guy moves in first.  Big guy, about 6'4", really foreboding presence.  Scary looking guy.  He gets all moved in.  His roommate, some naive, happy-go-lucky kid from some small town, shows up with his eager parents.  They open the door.  It's pitch black, and the Satanist has all this Satanic stuff all over the room.  The parents and kid take one look, turn around, and leave.  Never saw them again.

Wow. Great story. I think I remember who you were talking about. We Had a nickname for him on brew 5. Was he always playing pinball in the lobby area? I remember some guys on the 6th floor of Boland being expelled for throwing stuff out of the window. I think the stuff landed near and almost killed a security guard. Poor guy. I really liked him, but i think that security guard retired after that incident. As for brewster, I hated the those stairs to the main campus. I gladly moved to Sadler sophomore year. Nice to know that someone else can relate to Brewster.

 

[8slim]

I can't let a Syracuse nostalgia thread go without chiming in,,,
 
Class of '95, Newhouse.  Lived on the Mount freshman (Day) and sophmore (Flint) years.  Then moved off campus to Clarendon St in a dillapitated dump at the bottom of the steep brick hill, but such a great time.
 
One of my housemates randomly befriended Marius Janulis when he was a freshman, so he spent many a night at my house playing beer pong and hitting on our girl friends.  Nice guy, though.  Played pick up ball with him a few times... yeah, he could hit from anywhere on the floor.  
 
Was a 4-year member of the Sour Sitrus Society. Conductor my junior year ('93-'94) and traveled with the team through the NCAA tourney... which ended against Mizzou in OT in L.A. after a bogus waved-off basket by Adrian Autry.  Next year was in Austin to have my heart ripped out in person when Moten called the time out we didn't have against Arkansas.  Travelling for the tourney was kind of the best thing ever though.  Athletic Department gave us $75 every 2 days as a per diem, which meant we'd spend $15 on food and the rest on booze. 
 
Was at the Final Four last year, hope to make a return trip.  This team is special.  Really special.

 

[Doooweeeey!]

 As for brewster, I hated the those stairs to the main campus. I gladly moved to Sadler sophomore year. Nice to know that someone else can relate to Brewster.

No worse than Flint was and you guys were definitely closer to M Street! 

 

[soxhop411]

was up for 5+ min, but...
RT @Cuse Get your Tyler Ennis Jersey while they are still available!!! http://shop.cuse.com/COLLEGE_Syracuse_Orange/Nike_Syracuse_Orange_Number_11_Elite_Swingman_Aerographic_Twill_Basketball_Jersey_-_Orange …

 

[benhogan]

I'm watching Arizona V Arizona St and if this is the #2 team in the country I'm getting more confident.  Arizona's outside shooting is pedestrian at best.

 

[Rossox]

was up for 5+ min, but...
RT @Cuse Get your Tyler Ennis Jersey while they are still available!!! http://shop.cuse.com/COLLEGE_Syracuse_Orange/Nike_Syracuse_Orange_Number_11_Elite_Swingman_Aerographic_Twill_Basketball_Jersey_-_Orange …

Oops!

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2014/02/syracuse_athletics_commits_another_social_media_blunder_advertises_tyler_ennis_j.html#incart_river

 

[mjm3773]

Phew. Survived . . .

 

[Rossox]

I mean seriously? Unreal!

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Don't know how that wasn't a clear path foul. Syracuse deserved a loss there and got bailed out by the refs on home court.

 

[RedOctober3829]

That was a continuation for sure. NC State got jobbed.

 

[DukeSox]

The size of the horseshoe means extra painful extraction come March.

Good for SU tho.

 

[tims4wins]

The size of the horseshoe means extra painful extraction come March.

Good for SU tho.

This. SU fans are going to be rooting for a loss soon enough.

 

[benhogan]

Don't know how that wasn't a clear path foul. Syracuse deserved a loss there and got bailed out by the refs on home court.

Definitely a 50/50 call there and Cuse caught a break.  But I only watched the last 10 minutes of the game, and noticed Cuse only had 3 FTs in the first half, so I have no idea how the rest of the game was called.
 
BTW didn't notice you complaining here about the refs when Syracuse got absolutely mugged and assaulted by Pitt all night at the Pete.

 

[benhogan]

The size of the horseshoe means extra painful extraction come March.

Good for SU tho.

Maryland game yesterday?
 
Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[DukeSox]

what?

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Definitely a 50/50 call there and Cuse caught a break.  But I only watched the last 10 minutes of the game, and noticed Cuse only had 3 FTs in the first half, so I have no idea how the rest of the game was called.
 
BTW didn't notice you complaining here about the refs when Syracuse got absolutely mugged and assaulted by Pitt all night at the Pete.

 
I think that's more of an 80/20 call than 50/50, and I'm just posting my thought on clearly the biggest turning point of that game.
 
I was on a plane and didn't see a minute of Pitt/Cuse other than that highlights afterwards.

 

[benhogan]

what?

I thought your horseshoe comment implied that you think Syracuse got lucky yesterday?
 
Duke also got a nice break yesterday when Maryland's shot barely rolled off the rim in the waning seconds.

 

[benhogan]

 
I think that's more of an 80/20 call than 50/50, and I'm just posting my thought on clearly the biggest turning point of that game.
 
I was on a plane and didn't see a minute of Pitt/Cuse other than that highlights afterwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIDbU20WsY8
 
Go to 1:10
 
Cooney was bumping into him from the half court on. It depends when the foul happened, not when the whistle sounded.  Ref immediately pointed to right below the foul line/ACC marking. The announcer said "it happened right inside the lane".
 
So after watching the replay and hearing the announcers, I'll change my original 50/50 opinion and go with 100% right call.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

I just love that we're drawing Dukie hate. Cuse-Duke may be the best rivalry since Shoulder Towel John Thompson the Elder retired.

 

[ivanvamp]

This. SU fans are going to be rooting for a loss soon enough.

 
No chance.  Why would I root for them to lose, ever?  Wichita State's coach was on espn this morning and he poo-poohed that whole idea as well.  He said we coach to win every game.  We want to win every game.  
 
And I agree.  The goal is to win a national championship.  However they do that, great.  If they *need* a loss to get that, sure.  But there's no evidence that you need to lose in order to win the whole thing.  Just keep playing as well as you can.  If you win them all, it's gravy.  But rooting for a loss?  No way.

 

[tims4wins]

Oh I know you won't actually root for a loss (and nor should you), but having been through the 2007 Pats season, I'd gladly trade one of those December near losses (Baltimore comes to mind) for an 18-1 Super Bowl winning season.

 

[ivanvamp]

Well sure, if it has to be one or the other.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

I doubt you would have made that trade with about 2 minutes to go. Going for immortality is what makes sports fun. Chances are Syracuse will drop one before the NCAA's but I really don't see how winning a title is any easier if they're 31-1 vs. 32-0 or whatever.

 
If it seemed like their egos were out of control, like they had three Dion Waiterses on the team, Jimmy might not mind a loss or two to get 'em refocused.
 
I get zero cockiness from Fair, Ennis, Grant, Keita and Gbinije and maybe just a perfectly acceptable dash of cocky from Cooney and Christmas.
 
I agree. Don't think a loss gains you anything this year. My only curiosity at this point is if we took, say, a close loss at Duke in a week -- would we even lose the No. 1 ranking at 26-1?

 

[ivanvamp]

 
If it seemed like their egos were out of control, like they had three Dion Waiterses on the team, Jimmy might not mind a loss or two to get 'em refocused.
 
I get zero cockiness from Fair, Ennis, Grant, Keita and Gbinije and maybe just a perfectly acceptable dash of cocky from Cooney and Christmas.
 
I agree. Don't think a loss gains you anything this year. My only curiosity at this point is if we took, say, a close loss at Duke in a week -- would we even lose the No. 1 ranking at 26-1?

 
Great question.  I would hope not, although I could live with losing it to Wichita State, who would then be the only undefeated team in the country.  It would be bad to lose it to Arizona though, who suddenly has two losses and lost one of their best players to injury.

 

[ivanvamp]

Ok, let's take some time to think through the Syracuse players in terms of their pro potential.  Here's a mock draft site (http://www.nbadraft.net/2014mock_draft), and you can see they have the following SU players in the 2014 draft:
 
#10 - Gerami Grant
#13 - Tyler Ennis
#35 - C.J. Fair
 
Now, I think from this current group of SU players, those three, plus Cooney, have the best shot of having NBA careers.  I don't think Christmas or Coleman or Keita really have much hope of NBA careers, as much as I like them for the college game.  
 
Grant - Super athletic, but there are tons of really athletic wing players in the NBA.  Grant doesn't have the outside shooting ability of other top pro prospects, and that's an area he'd really need to develop.  But he can run, jump, play around the rim with the best of them.  I think his ceiling is a borderline NBA starter - I don't see him as a star in the making.
 
Ennis - Different story.  Not as athletic, but I think he's undersold from an athletic standpoint.  He seems to be able to get wherever he wants on the floor, no matter who is guarding him.  Finishes well with both hands, has a nice floater and scoring touch in the paint.  Could stand to improve his outside shooting, but not that many NBA point guards are also great shooters.  Very instinctive player, sees the court very well.  Excellent decision-maker.  I think he has the potential to be a very, very good NBA point guard.  
 
Fair - Steady, solid in every aspect of the game.  Can shoot, can drive, can finish around the rim.  Solid rebounder and defender.  Smart, leader.  I think he's actually underrated as a pro prospect.  I wish he used his right hand more (for those that don't know, he's a lefty), but still, he can get that shot off in the paint over bigger guys.  Very tough.  Has serious "onions", as Raftery says.  I think he's a guy that NBA teams would like to have, as he brings so much to the table.  The problem with him is that he's a senior, and for some reason that tends to limit his draft stock.  But I think his ceiling is as a starter in the NBA, never a star, but as a starter.  
 
Cooney - Big (6'4", 195 lbs), and much more athletic than you'd think just by looking at him.  Can really get up off the floor.  Runs well, has unlimited range.  Streaky shooter, but when he's on, forget it.  Has a better handle than you'd expect as well.  Could be a very nice shooting guard in the NBA, though I worry about his ability to guard the better 2's in the league.  But then again, how many people *can* guard guys like Wade?  I think his ceiling is as a solid bench contributor in the NBA.  Much better pro prospect than McNamara, mainly due to his size and athleticism.
 
So I think of this group, Ennis is the best pro prospect, even though Grant is getting more love in the mock drafts.  

 

[LeftyTG]

 
If it seemed like their egos were out of control, like they had three Dion Waiterses on the team, Jimmy might not mind a loss or two to get 'em refocused.
 
I get zero cockiness from Fair, Ennis, Grant, Keita and Gbinije and maybe just a perfectly acceptable dash of cocky from Cooney and Christmas.
 
I agree. Don't think a loss gains you anything this year. My only curiosity at this point is if we took, say, a close loss at Duke in a week -- would we even lose the No. 1 ranking at 26-1?

DukeSox's general all around douchiness aside, it isn't unfair to acknowledge Syracuse has been in several coin flip type games this season and is fortunate to have won every single one of those games.  Heck, Syracuse could easily have lost to St. freaking Francis.  Syracuse let the rotting corpse of a team in BC stick around well into the second half.  This team simply isn't a juggernaut that is dismantling teams - head and shoulder above all others - which is what you'd expect from a team that would go undefeated the whole season.  They are not the most talented team in the field (Kansas and Kentucky, at least, outpace them there).
 
I'll never be able to sit down to watch a Syracuse game and hope they lose.  That just isn't in me.  However I don't want them to be undefeated going into the tournament.  It isn't even so much that I think the team would learn from a loss.  I think LeoCarillo is right in that this team is pretty focused and not cocky (I'd even disagree on Cooney - I wish he had a touch more confidence/cockiness).  I just don't want the media scrutiny and intensity that would come with being undefeated going into the tournament.  I know Boeheim dismissed this, but it just seems to me that in our current environment of nonstop beating stories to death, it would be a heavy distraction.  I don't want the team to be thinking about going undefeated.  I want them thinking about winning the next game in the tournament.  Being a 1 seed and trying to win a championship is pressure enough, but at least you are one of a handful of favorites.  I don't see any good out of creating a media circus and being THE focal point and story line of the tournament

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Just a passing thought. If there's a place in the NBA for Kendrick Perkins, them there's hope for Christmas. The dude is evolving into a beast on boards and blocks.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yeah, but Christmas just isn't nearly as big as Perkins.  But maybe he (Christmas) could become an Antonio Davis (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisan01.html).  If he can get 8-10 rebounds and swat a couple of shots a game, while developing his jump hook and being a garbage man, I suppose he could be pretty useful to an NBA team for sure.
 
As for Lefty's last post, I agree.  SU is a superb team, but not an all-time juggernaut.  Way too many close games for that.  However, they've shown a tremendous amount of character winning some of these games.  As Boeheim said after the Ennis 35-footer, sometimes you need some luck.  Well, SU has had it so far.  Maybe that runs out in the NCAA tournament.  Who knows.  
 
I'm enjoying the ride so far, that's for sure.

 

[bsj]

Disappointed and surprised that Grant may come out. I thought we would get to see him actually blow up here rather than leave on "potential". 
 
Not saying I "blame" him....if he is a top 10 pick, he has to go....just surprised. 

 

[ivanvamp]

Well he hasn't announced anything.  Nor has Ennis.  That mock draft site is presuming they will, nothing more.  Of course I want both those guys to stick around for next year.  

 

[ivanvamp]

Is SU the least dominant 25-0 team you've ever seen?  According to their ESPN web page, here are SU's national rankings:
 
Points per game:  #221 (70.0)
Total rebounds per game:  #173 (35.0)
Assists per game:  #187 (12.6)
FG percentage:  #117 (.454)
Points allowed per game:  #7 (58.2)
Defensive rebounds per game:  #299 (22.1)
Blocks per game:  #40 (5.1)
Steals per game:  #17 (8.3)
 
So only in the top 10 in just one of these categories.  Granted, it's a big one, but still.  That overall profile certainly doesn't seem to indicate an undefeated, #1 team in the nation.  

 

[LeoCarrillo]

I think this is the least-dominant (certainly thinnest team) I've seen in this recent Cuse Renaissance. Certainly not as good as the title-possible teams that were undercut by Onuaku's injury and Fab Melo's inability to pass scuba, or whatever got him sidelined.
 
The depth is a real concern. But what it may prove to be is a team we look back on after NBA successes of Grant, Ennis, Cooney, Fair and I'm still saying Christmas as a banger (liked your Antonio Davis) comp. We may be sitting on the seedlings of some pretty successful NBAers.

 

[ivanvamp]

I agree, Leo.  Come tournament time, you don't necessarily need a ton of depth.  You need 7 guys, really.  So long as the stay healthy and out of foul trouble.  And SU has 7 guys, assuming Keita comes back healthy:  Ennis, Cooney, Fair, Grant, Christmas, Gbinije, Keita.  Roberson can fill in *if necessary*.  
 
And that 7 man group is just really good all-around.  It's plenty good enough to get to the Final Four and maybe win the whole thing.  As usual, they'll need some breaks along the way.  Even the '03 title team had a one-point win during their tournament run.  

 

[Rossox]

I just think the counting stats are a by-product of how this team plays, and more importantly how teams attack them on offense. We saw what they were capable of in the Duke game when teams wanted to run and shoot. Are they the '96 Kentucky team?  Of course not. Then again, due to the one and done nature of college hoops I just don't think you see historically dominant teams any more.
 
I agree w/ Leo that this year's group is probably the least dominant team of the past 4-5 years. However, it has incredible balance and the best PG in that span, which is huge in the Tournament. No coincidence that the recent run of close games has come with Keita out either. They're only playing 3 forwards right now -- all starters. Plus, you typically see teams flounder in February. The great thing about this team is that they continue to find a way to win even when they're playing lousy.
 
The Duke game this weekend will get all the hype, but right now I am circling the UVA matchup on the 1st. That is the one that is going to decide the ACC champion.

 

[ivanvamp]

Virginia's remaining schedule:
 
2/18 at Virginia Tech (9-15, 2-10)
2/22 vs Notre Dame (14-12, 5-8)
2/26 vs Miami (12-13, 3-9)
3/1 vs Syracuse (25-0, 12-0)
3/9 at Maryland (14-12, 6-7)
 
I think the game at Maryland (Maryland's last regular season ACC game, and it's at Maryland) could be tough, but I don't see them losing any of those three before the SU game.  
 
So I agree with you, the ACC champ will be either Syracuse or Virginia, and it'll likely come down to that head-to-head matchup.  That means that SU can afford to lose one other ACC game, so long as they beat Virginia.  

 

[LeftyTG]

Is SU the least dominant 25-0 team you've ever seen?  According to their ESPN web page, here are SU's national rankings:
 
Points per game:  #221 (70.0)
Total rebounds per game:  #173 (35.0)
Assists per game:  #187 (12.6)
FG percentage:  #117 (.454)
Points allowed per game:  #7 (58.2)
Defensive rebounds per game:  #299 (22.1)
Blocks per game:  #40 (5.1)
Steals per game:  #17 (8.3)
 
So only in the top 10 in just one of these categories.  Granted, it's a big one, but still.  That overall profile certainly doesn't seem to indicate an undefeated, #1 team in the nation.  

the majority of those stats just tell me that Syracuse and their opponents play a very slow pace.  Syracuse's adjusted numbers look much better (they are top 10 offensively and top 15 defensively).
 
I'm ok with a 7 man rotation, but I do worry about the distribution of the minutes and key guys wearing down as March draws near.  Gbinije usually doesn't crack 10 minutes in a game and Keita only really subs for Christmas.  Ennis, Grant, and Fair are more or less marathon men every game.  Fair, at least, is a senior and has played heavy minutes.  Ennis is a freshman and Grant is in his first year playing heavy minutes.  At this point it is what it is and you ride it til the end, but it's going to be in the back of my head for every game in March.
 
Also, in my opinion, the Cooney as a NBA player is misguided .  He's a nice college player with the potential to be a very nice college player, but he simply doesn't have the athleticism to play in the NBA.  Athleticism is more that jumping high - which Cooney is admittedly good at - it is overall quickness and explosiveness, where Cooney is subpar.  He can't even get to the rim against college players who are playing his shot.  He's strictly a spot up/catch and shoot shooter right now.  Even if you give him two years to develop a one/two dribble pull up game, his game still isn't going to translate to the NBA.  He's a smart and willing defender in the zone, but he has no prayer guarding anyone in the NBA.

 

[ivanvamp]

There are plenty of guys who have had long, successful NBA careers with far fewer physical tools than Cooney.  Not saying he *will* make it; just that I think he has a chance.  

 

[Rossox]

Virginia's remaining schedule:
 
2/18 at Virginia Tech (9-15, 2-10)
2/22 vs Notre Dame (14-12, 5-8)
2/26 vs Miami (12-13, 3-9)
3/1 vs Syracuse (25-0, 12-0)
3/9 at Maryland (14-12, 6-7)
 
I think the game at Maryland (Maryland's last regular season ACC game, and it's at Maryland) could be tough, but I don't see them losing any of those three before the SU game.  
 
So I agree with you, the ACC champ will be either Syracuse or Virginia, and it'll likely come down to that head-to-head matchup.  That means that SU can afford to lose one other ACC game, so long as they beat Virginia.  

 
Yeah, SU's schedule is definitely back-loaded this year. Speaking of which, if I hear Jay Williams or any other commentator refer to Syracuse's schedule down the stretch as being a "gauntlet", I'm going to puke. We get it already.
 
The ACC in general is down. Syracuse would have 2-3 losses easily by now in the old Big East. A lot of that has to do w/ teams' familiarity w/ their zone. But still...

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Another reason to root for unbeaten is that it means no way the committee can move them off the 1 seed or out of the East quadrant (though truthfully they've probably still got it with one loss anyway, maybe two.)

No. 1 in the East means tourney sites of Buffalo and Madison Square Garden. Oh, baby.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yeah, I think it would take a significant collapse for SU to not get the Buffalo/MSG spots though.  Look at the other teams in the top 8:  
 
1. Syracuse
2. Florida
3. Wichita St.
4. Arizona
5. Duke
6. San Diego St.
7. Cincinnati
8. Kansas
 
THe only other "east" team would be Duke.  But SU has zero losses and Duke has five.  It would take a lot for Duke to leap over SU, wouldn't it?  Florida will almost certainly be in the Memphis regional.  The other two are Anaheim and Indianapolis.  Wichita St. gets the Indy regional, while Arizona would end up with the Anaheim. 
 
As for the pods, SU will almost certainly end up in Buffalo anyway.  Again, barring a catastrophe.  
 
I don't think you could set up a tournament any better for SU than playing the first two rounds in Buffalo and then having the regionals at MSG.  

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Those JV unis. Good god.

 

[mabrowndog]

Those JV unis. Good god.

 
So ugly that they've scared all the quality production out of the players donning them.
 
BC is carrying play in the huge way in the 2nd half. All even at 41, under 8:00 to play.

 

[Rossox]

Play with fire long enough.....

Not playing well right now at all. When you can't even use your bench against this BC team then you know you're in trouble. BC made the shots they needed to make, including both ends of 1 and 1, which seemed to plague the Orange all night.

 

[jsinger121]

A loss like this could cost Syracuse a number seed especially with other tough games down the stretch.