2014 Horse Racing and Triple Crown Thread

WayBackVazquez

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I hope we'll get a little action in here before Derby Day.
 
I have only been to the track once or twice in the last couple of months, so I don't have any strong thoughts on the contenders. What does the SoSH handicapping contingent have to say about this year's crop of three-year-olds? I know Constitution won the Florida Derby, which is pretty cool since he didn't even race a a 2 year-old. I'm going to try to make it out to the Santa Anita Derby this weekend to catch California Chrome and Candy Boy.
 

mabrowndog

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This was the busiest weekend for Championship Series run-ups, and an interesting one as well. Vicar's In Trouble took the Louisiana Derby ahead of Risen Star winner Intense Holiday (on a track that was still pretty wet from the early-weekend deluge). ViT had run 3rd at Risen Star. Meanwhile 13-1 shot Toast of New York won in the United Arab Emirates. 
 
The buzz over California Chrome is everywhere, but it's hard to ignore unbeaten Samraat. He breezed a mile in 1:44:05 at Palm Meadows on Friday, and will fly up to Aqueduct tomorrow. A number of observers expect him to crush the Wood Memorial field there, Social Inclusion and Uncle Sigh among them. Rain's in the forecast for NYC on Wednesday, but three dry days thereafter ought to clean up the track. Samraat won there at the Gotham Stakes a month ago, besting Uncle Sigh in 2nd.
 
I'm keeping an eye on Ring Weekend, a Graham Nation-trained gelding that took the Tampa Bay Derby 4 weeks ago by 3 lengths ahead of Vinceremos (like Constitution, a Winstar/Twin Creeks entry trained by Pletcher which had won at Tampa in early February). In the Derby, RW led right from the gate on a dry track and finished just one second off the course record. He'll be running at Calder this Saturday with Alan Garcia on the mount.
 
Two Baffert horses also merit watching: Hoppertunity (4th at Risen Star; winner in the Rebel Stakes at Oaklawn two weeks ago) and Chitu (2nd in the Robert Lewis Stakes at Santa Anita; winner at Sunland last weekend). Baffert also trains Midnight Hawk, which won the Sham Stakes (a January derby prep at Santa Anita) and took 2nd behind California Chrome in the San Felipe (also at Santa Anita), but ran behind Chitu in both the Robert Lewis (3rd) and at Sunland (2nd).
 
 

mabrowndog

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It's worth pointing out that NBCSN will be televising both the Wood and Santa Anita this weekend starting at 5:30 pm EST.
 

WayBackVazquez

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mabrowndog said:
This was the busiest weekend for Championship Series run-ups, and an interesting one as well. Vicar's In Trouble took the Louisiana Derby ahead of Risen Star winner Intense Holiday (on a track that was still pretty wet from the early-weekend deluge). ViT had run 3rd at Risen Star. Meanwhile 13-1 shot Toast of New York won in the United Arab Emirates. 
 
Yeah, I know Toast of New York qualified for the Derby with that win, but it seems like a crazy schedule to me for a young European horse to travel from Dubai to Louisville, deal with quarantine, and get ready for this kind of race in just a month. 
 

mabrowndog

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Totally agree on the insanity. I'm still perplexed as to how and why a race on the other side of the world was granted such lofty status with 100 derby points to the winner. Aside from kissing up to the Middle Eastern oil princes and the billions they invest in the sport.
 
Anyway, here's Samraat's win in the Gotham. Helluva race, and you don't often see three horses running this tightly so close at the finish.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM60XZHnMVQ
 
And here's how Vicar's In Trouble ran end-to-end at Fair Grounds:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIxWY3gw5yg
 
 
 
 

mabrowndog

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Ring Weekend's upset in Tampa:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXwl2OfY-4w
 
 
Hoppertunity takes the Rebel:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYpR0HOC59E
 

mabrowndog

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Another horse worth watching: We Miss Artie, rallying from well back to win the Spiral
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFN5PSQmIQ
 
 
Finally, Chitu's win over Midnight Hawk at Sunland:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWXFpNoUhwg
 

Titoschew

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WayBackVazquez said:
 
Yeah, I know Toast of New York qualified for the Derby with that win, but it seems like a crazy schedule to me for a young European horse to travel from Dubai to Louisville, deal with quarantine, and get ready for this kind of race in just a month. 
 
Which is too bad, I think he is/would have been an interesting Derby entrant.  He is a grandson of Kingmambo out of a turf heavy mare.  The Kingmambo line has dropped Classic winners both in the US and Europe like Lemon Drop Kid and Henrythenavigator.  Also, the grass effect has been successful in the Derby in recent memory with Barbaro and Animal Kingdom coming out of turf pedigrees to win.  At the right price, I would bite.
 

mabrowndog

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No problem, I just wish there were higher-res versions of some of those races.
 
Might as well add these for those who missed them...
 
Candy Boy takes the Robert B. Lewis Stakes at Santa Anita:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFuzqYHABWc
 
 
Intense Holiday wins the Risen Star at Fair Grounds in Louisiana:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NrZHC6DKlk
 

mabrowndog

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Cairo Prince was being talked up quite a bit after winning the Holy Bull Stakes at Gulfstream in late January. The chatter seems to have dried up since he ran 4th over the weekend in Florida.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43W8tbKmm-Q
 
 
California Chrome wins the San Felipe at Santa Ana:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG_vuFdKqnA
 

mabrowndog

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Constitution wins the Florida Derby:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOOzCft7WVg
 
 
Toast of New York wins the UAE Derby:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF58KFGec58
 

Deathofthebambino

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Psyched to see this thread.  I recently bought a piece of 3 horses, all of whom are a shade over 2 years old, and just got broken and began training.  Hoping to see them start racing towards the middle of the summer, mainly in New York at Aqueduct and Saratoga and then down to Florida at Gulfstream.  I'll update you all as it happens if you're interested.
 
As for the Derby, I love Samraat, and will probably have my money there.  Hoping to see around 8-1 when the time comes.  I also love "We Miss Artie" as a longshot.  That said, no idea how to get away from California Chrome after that showing in the San Felipe.  IMO, it's the best race, by far, any horse has run this year.  A 1:33 mile, and takes it wire to wire while running away from the field at the end?  To realize how impressive that is, if you watch all of the other races linked in this thread, only a couple had the opening mile in less than 1:37, and of the ones that did, nobody was able to go wire to wire.  That's just all-world stuff, and if Chrome runs like that in the Derby, it won't be much of a race. 
 

WayBackVazquez

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Deathofthebambino said:
Psyched to see this thread.  I recently bought a piece of 3 horses, all of whom are a shade over 2 years old, and just got broken and began training.  Hoping to see them start racing towards the middle of the summer, mainly in New York at Aqueduct and Saratoga and then down to Florida at Gulfstream.  I'll update you all as it happens if you're interested.
 
I'm definitely interested in hearing about your experience as it goes. I've been thinking about doing this for a while, but can't bring myself to pull the trigger.
 

mabrowndog

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Greg, that's really cool to hear. My uncle and some of his newspaper publishing buddies bought a horse together about 40 years ago. It was stabled at Saratoga, and once he started heading there (from Springfield) nearly every racing weekend, it pretty much ensured he and my aunt would divorce (which they did). No matter, the guys kept buying and selling horses for the next 15-20 years (my uncle's 85 now), and while they didn't make much in the way of profits, they had the times of their lives.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Thanks guys.  A number of friends of mine are in the horse racing game in various capacities.  One, in particular, owns a stable and quite a few horses, and offers shares up for sale very often.  The stable has been up and running for a few years, but is really now getting into some pretty good horses.  This particular offering came up a few months ago, and I liked it for a few reasons.  First, the price was reasonable and most importantly, it's a one time fee which gives you ownership for 30 months, and I liked the idea of 3 horses.  I only bought 5%, and a bunch of my friends bought other shares.  Basically, we own the horse for the entire age 2, 3 and 4 racing seasons.  After that, it all depends on how the horse does as to whether or not we'll have to invest some more or if they'll have won enough that we won't need to and/or could sell off our interest.  Bottom line is that there are no hidden or surprise costs.  You pay the up front amount, and that's it for the 30 months.  I've got friends that own horses and it seems like every month, they have to cut a check for this or that, and when I told them what this would cost, they almost all wanted in because it was so reasonable.
 
My friend is a true horse man.  He's at Saratoga every Thursday-Monday during the racing season, and loves the sport, and I trust him explicitly.  He goes to everything, but he's never been to a Kentucky Derby, because he's vowed to never go until he's bringing one of his horses to the race.  Having him running the point, whereas the rest of us are just silent investors, is perfect for me.  The horses are being broken/trained by George Weaver, who I assume you guys have heard of, and have pretty damn good bloodlines:
 
Sire:  Fusaichi Pegasus (Yes, that one.  Winner of the 2000 Kentucky Derby, Wood, San Felipe and Jerome Handicap, 2nd at the Preakness.  Won almost 2 million in a short 9 race career with 6 wins).
Dam:  Gloomy I'm Knot
 
Sire: Langfur (Won 700k in 23 races, multiple stakes winner, including the Forego and the Vosburgh, in the money 17/23 races)
Dam: Twistaway (Won about 200k in 27 race career)
 
Sire: Bellamy Road (Winner of 800k in 7 races, including the 2005 Wood, came in 7th at the Derby and 2nd at the Travers)
Dam:  Zaskar
 
My wife really enjoys the horses, and we're all hoping that at least one of them might be ready for a race during this year's Saratoga season, but considering the oldest will only be just about 2.5 at that point, and Weaver doesn't like racing 2 year olds as a matter of policy, that might be a bit optimistic, but I'll certainly let you guys know how it goes.  If either of you are interested in potentially investing, let me know and I can send you a PM with a link to the stable's website and offerings. 
 

WayBackVazquez

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Cool. Good luck, man.
 
I'm set with the partnership I'm looking at, though; obviously I want my horse(s) to run out here on the west coast. The partnership I've been talking to and toying with for the last year or so is Blinkers On, and the horses are trained by Mike Puype, who I like a lot. Among the horses the partnership has owned are Turbulent Descent, which was a multiple G1 winner, and Red Outlaw, a 3-year old running now that I'm kicking myself for not getting in on last year ($3,495 for 5%). He's started 3-0, and already earned $115k.
 

Deathofthebambino

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$3495 for 5% is a killer deal.  Is it set up the same way as mine?  You own them for a period of time, or are you still paying monthly expenses, etc. as time goes on?   Ours worked out to $26,000 for 5% for the three horses, so just a shade under 9k per horse, but that covers everything for 2.5 years.  I'm pretty sure I made a few bucks on Red Outlaw in the Baffle a couple months ago.  That horse is the real deal.  Ran a 1:12 for 6.5 furlongs in that race, which is a time you usually see for a good win at 6 furlongs.  3 for 3 so far, and I'm really interested to see how it does going forward. 
 

WayBackVazquez

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No, you get absolute fractional ownership, including proceeds if the horse is sold, stud, etc, so you're also on the hook for your proportionate share of expenses, which is about $2k -$2500 a year. The cool thing from my perspective is that it's a true partnership, meaning you register and get licensed as an owner, so you get things like access to the track and stables, and can buy or put in claims on horses independently once you get into it if you want.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Yep, we have the same partnership deal.  The only difference is the up front payment as opposed to monthly/yearly fees.  I actually need to go through the whole registration to get licensed as an owner, but probably won't get around to it until I'm ready to head to Saratoga this summer.  It's a pretty cool perk and look forward to being able to get behind the scenes, so to speak.
 

Bongorific

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What websites and sources do you guys use to follow the sport? I live near Saratoga and make it out for 5-6 days a year. So I have a basic knowledge of the jockeys and trainers that return every year and read the local papers that cover the Saratoga season. However, I'd like to follow it on a more broad level as well so I know which horses to follow for the triple crown and which horses to look forward to seeing in Saratoga prior to reading about them the day of the race.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Daily Racing Form is the paper and website (drf.com) of record, and what you get at the track. ESPN.com does some really surface level reporting.

TVG.com is what I use to watch and bet when I'm not at the track.
 

Greg29fan

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The DRF started hiding a lot of their content behind a pay wall in the last few months.  If you want some free alternatives, The-Bloodhorse (bloodhorse.com) is probably the top magazine.  America's Best Racing (americasbestracing.net) is the NTRA's marketing arm.  The Paulick Report (paulickreport.com) is good too.  Equibase (equibase.com) tracks all the statistics, entries, and results.
 
All the tracks also have their own websites - nyra.com for Aqueduct, Belmont, Saratoga, etc.
 

Bongorific

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Thanks guys. Looking forward to opening day at Saratoga. Ended a couple hundred in the black last year. I was up there over the weekend for dinner and you could feel it was just around the corner.
 

mabrowndog

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Bongorific said:
What websites and sources do you guys use to follow the sport?
 
Along with the sites WBV noted, here's what I have bookmarked:
 
allbreedpedigree.com (A useful tool for tracing a horse's lineage. Here's the family tree for the late, great Timely Writer)
 
americasbestracing.net
 
anddownthestretchtheycome.com (A great SB Nation blog)
 
bloodhorse.com
 
brisnet.com - Handicapper's Edge news page
 
downthestretchs.com (another blog)
 
equibase.com
 
helloracefans.com
 
horseracingnation.com
 
jockeysguild.com
 
nbcsports.com/horse-racing
 
onefasthorse.com
 
paulickreport.com
 

WayBackVazquez

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By the way, I'm taking a week off this year and will be at the Oaks (for the first time) and the Derby again. We've got a wedding to attend in Charleston on the 26th, and then are going to spend the next week eating and drinking our way through South Carolina and Kentucky (a few days on the bourbon trail) before the races. Can't wait.
 
We've got everything booked (hotels, car, distillery tours) except our race tickets. Secondary market prices for clubhouse level are significantly higher than they've been the last 3 years, so I'm waiting/hoping for a last minute drop before pulling the trigger.
 

mabrowndog

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That's going to be an awesome trip. If you haven't hit Keeneland yet, hopefully you'll be able to make time to stop in and just walk around the stables and stands even if there are no races going on. Whenever I traveled there on business trips to IBM and Lexmark, it was refreshing to head to the track and just soak in the ambience for a while. On off-days, I always found people friendly enough and willing to chat about their work and the horses, from trainers to stable hands to maintenance personnel. It's the Fenway of thoroughbred tracks.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Deathofthebambino said:
Thanks guys.  A number of friends of mine are in the horse racing game in various capacities.  One, in particular, owns a stable and quite a few horses, and offers shares up for sale very often.  The stable has been up and running for a few years, but is really now getting into some pretty good horses.  This particular offering came up a few months ago, and I liked it for a few reasons.  First, the price was reasonable and most importantly, it's a one time fee which gives you ownership for 30 months, and I liked the idea of 3 horses.  I only bought 5%, and a bunch of my friends bought other shares.  Basically, we own the horse for the entire age 2, 3 and 4 racing seasons.  After that, it all depends on how the horse does as to whether or not we'll have to invest some more or if they'll have won enough that we won't need to and/or could sell off our interest.  Bottom line is that there are no hidden or surprise costs.  You pay the up front amount, and that's it for the 30 months.  I've got friends that own horses and it seems like every month, they have to cut a check for this or that, and when I told them what this would cost, they almost all wanted in because it was so reasonable.
 
My friend is a true horse man.  He's at Saratoga every Thursday-Monday during the racing season, and loves the sport, and I trust him explicitly.  He goes to everything, but he's never been to a Kentucky Derby, because he's vowed to never go until he's bringing one of his horses to the race.  Having him running the point, whereas the rest of us are just silent investors, is perfect for me.  The horses are being broken/trained by George Weaver, who I assume you guys have heard of, and have pretty damn good bloodlines:
 
Sire:  Fusaichi Pegasus (Yes, that one.  Winner of the 2000 Kentucky Derby, Wood, San Felipe and Jerome Handicap, 2nd at the Preakness.  Won almost 2 million in a short 9 race career with 6 wins).
Dam:  Gloomy I'm Knot
 
Sire: Langfur (Won 700k in 23 races, multiple stakes winner, including the Forego and the Vosburgh, in the money 17/23 races)
Dam: Twistaway (Won about 200k in 27 race career)
 
Sire: Bellamy Road (Winner of 800k in 7 races, including the 2005 Wood, came in 7th at the Derby and 2nd at the Travers)
Dam:  Zaskar
 
My wife really enjoys the horses, and we're all hoping that at least one of them might be ready for a race during this year's Saratoga season, but considering the oldest will only be just about 2.5 at that point, and Weaver doesn't like racing 2 year olds as a matter of policy, that might be a bit optimistic, but I'll certainly let you guys know how it goes.  If either of you are interested in potentially investing, let me know and I can send you a PM with a link to the stable's website and offerings. 
 
I don't mean to sound skeptical, but if it's such a great deal why are they offering it. (Note: I know nothing about horse ownership) Also, if a horse is successful doesn't most of the money come in the form of stud fees after it's retired? If you only own it for 30 months it sounds like you're essentially giving up any chance of that.
 

Titoschew

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Bongorific said:
What websites and sources do you guys use to follow the sport? I live near Saratoga and make it out for 5-6 days a year. So I have a basic knowledge of the jockeys and trainers that return every year and read the local papers that cover the Saratoga season. However, I'd like to follow it on a more broad level as well so I know which horses to follow for the triple crown and which horses to look forward to seeing in Saratoga prior to reading about them the day of the race.
 
His websites aren't great (www.derbytrail.com - message board and www.thoroughbredracingradionetwork.com), but Steve Byk's insight and commentary through his guests are fantastic.  He has the pulse on mostly anything on the East Coast, especially NYRA.  He has a daily radio show on SiriusXM, and it is streamed live and available to listen to anytime on the second website I mentioned.  He does a two week lead up to the Derby on this show that is second to none.  
 

Deathofthebambino

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Dernell, I think it's a good deal in that your costs are capped for the initial 30 months.  That's something you don't normally see in the industry, and that's the problem with ownership in a lot of cases.  Like I said originally, I have a lot of friends that own horses, and every month, they get a bill for some sort of vet visit or other random cost that they weren't expecting in addition to the costs of training, feeding, housing, transportation, etc. that they were expecting.  The reason they are offering it is the same reason anybody offers people the chance to invest in something.  Why does Google or Microsoft or Apple sells shares of their company?  Why do start-ups offer investors the ability to participate in and the reap the benefits of their company? The owners of the stable are passing off some of the cost and risk associated with their horses, just like any other business owner looking for investors.
 
As for the 30 months, our ownership doesn't end after 30 months.  That's just how long our initial investment covers the costs.  At that point, we'll have the option of deciding to continue on as owners or not.  For example, if the decision is made to sell a horse at that time, there wouldn't be any additional costs, and we'd just split the revenue from the sale.  If we keep the horse, it's like any other investment, if there is a profit on the horse each quarter (either through racing or stud fees or whatever), then dividends will be paid.  But if the horse is costing money, then we would now have to start paying for them out of pocket just like any other horse owner.   Or if it feels like it's just a money pit and want out, we can give up our ownership.  We still own the horses at the end of the 30 months, but at that point, we can revisit whether or not we want to continue on, or if we want to call it quits.
 

Deathofthebambino

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And just to be clear, there is no way of knowing if it's a good deal or not.  Horses are really just lottery tickets.  You could get the direct offspring of Secretariat, and still not be guaranteed to have a horse that can win a race.  All you can do is hope you've hired the right people to train them and care for them and manage them correctly.  There is a much larger chance that it's a losing proposition in the end, no doubt about that.  For someone like me, this is just a hobby.  I'm not, in any way, expecting one of these horses to make the derby.  Shit, they just turned 2 years old each.  All three of them could break down tomorrow and never see a race track, or all three of them could go on to win stakes races.  You really never know, which is why you have to do your homework and make sure your "backing" the right people, as much as the right horse.
 

Greg29fan

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Wicked Strong rallied from off the pace to win the Wood Memorial at Aqueduct for trainer Jimmy Jerkens and jockey Rajiv Maragh.  Samraat was second and favorite Social Inclusion was third.
 
Teresa Genaro ‏@BklynBckstretch  18m
Wicked Strong named for Centennial Farms' Don Little's hometown of Boston, MA, named after Boston Marathon bombing.
 
Americas Best Racing ‏@ABRLive  1m
1 percent of #WoodMemorial winner Wicked Strong's purse money is donated to @OneFundBoston for victims of the Boston Marathon bombing.
 

mabrowndog

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mabrowndog said:
I'm keeping an eye on Ring Weekend, a Graham Nation-trained gelding that took the Tampa Bay Derby 4 weeks ago by 3 lengths ahead of Vinceremos (like Constitution, a Winstar/Twin Creeks entry trained by Pletcher which had won at Tampa in early February). In the Derby, RW led right from the gate on a dry track and finished just one second off the course record. He'll be running at Calder this Saturday with Alan Garcia on the mount.
 
He posted as a 1-5 heavy favorite, but he ran second today in an unimpressive time of 1:54. Reports online indicate there he "swerved in at the top of the stretch" and that there "may have been some contact" so I'll need to see some video on this. Our Caravan (5-1) was the winner in the ungraded stakes.
 
More details:
 
 
[Ring Weekend] was keen at the start but eventually settled to rate fourth while 32-1 shot Charlie the Boss set the pace tracked by the eventual winner and Russian Humor.
 
Our Caravan put pressure on the longshot front-runner through a quarter in :24.07 and a half in :49.24 while Ring Weekend moved up to third behind three-quarters in 1:14.67. The leader was clearly finished heading into the final turn, at which point Our Caravan took the lead and Ring Weekend ranged up to engage him.
 
The Tampa Bay Derby winner overreacted, however, when corrected for drifting from Garcia's right-handed stick toward his inside rival. As Garcia momentarily took up to avoid a potential brush, Ring Weekend swerved outward and lost his momentum. In those precious seconds Our Caravan widened away, crossing the line on the fast main track in 1:54.32.
 

mabrowndog

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Man, that was impressive. A rough start as well as he got pinched between several mounts coming out of the gates before surging ahead. The field was packed tightly around the final turn, with all horses within about 5 lengths, and then he just kicked in the turbo boosters and built what looked like a 10-length lead down the stretch. Even with Espinoza pulling him up over the final 100+ yards, he still won by 5+ lengths.
 
Churchill Downs PR ‏@DerbyMedia 2m
Santa Anita Derby order (points):
1: 5-California Chrome (100)
2: 3-Hoppertunity (40)
3: 6-Candy Boy (20)
4: 8-Dublin Up (10)
 

WayBackVazquez

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California Chrome was absolutely dominant, and will be the heavy favorite at Churchill Downs. There were some other great races today, especially the Central Bank Ashland at Keeneland, a Kentucky Oaks prep that was a dead heat between Room Service and Rosalind, ridden by my man Rosario.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Last year, Game On Dude won the Santa Anita over Will Take Charge in a pretty impressive race, so it's hard to say what will happen in the Derby this far out, but I can't remember being this impressed by a horse like I am with California Chrome.  Bottom line, he's the real fucking deal.  Like I noted above, that performance in the San Felipe was just absurd.  He's won his last four races by a combined 24.5 lengths, and ran the Santa Anita 1 1/8 in 1:47.52, even though Espinosa eased him up down the stretch.  I didn't realize it, but the last time a California bred horse won the Derby was 1962 with Decidedly. I just read that the owners, who are supposedly not big time owners/breeders, just turned down a 6 million dollar offer for 51% of Chrome after the San Felipe.  Takes some big gonads to do that in this sport.  That's a real number.  Big question for Chrome is how he'll handle the extra distance at the derby.  That last eighth has brought down a lot of great horses.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
42,094
To realize how good Chrome was today, go up this thread and watch Browndog's link to the Rebel stakes that Hoppertunity won.  Hoppertunity had an outside trip, and still managed to outduel 3 really good horses down the stretch.  That's an impressive win in a big time race.
 
Chrome not only beat Hoppertunity today, he stripped him naked and laughed at him.   
 

mabrowndog

Ask me about total zone...or paint
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Dec 23, 2003
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Yesterday's race from Santa Ana:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a10u6V_Ldus
 
 
Wicked Strong's run in the Wood Memorial
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4jwGXrXETc
 

mabrowndog

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No video to be found of yesterday's Calder, but here's the back half of the Central Bank Ashland noted by WBV upthread:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5AyD7d1Iis
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
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I have no qualms with California Chrome at this point; he's done nothing wrong, but if you are a believer in gallop out (the ground gained/lost past the wire), then Hoppertunity blew right past him and galloped out much stronger.  Sometimes it gives a clue as to who does better in a longer race, but it's not fool-proof.
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
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Jul 29, 2005
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WayBackVazquez said:
By the way, I'm taking a week off this year and will be at the Oaks (for the first time) and the Derby again. We've got a wedding to attend in Charleston on the 26th, and then are going to spend the next week eating and drinking our way through South Carolina and Kentucky (a few days on the bourbon trail) before the races. Can't wait.
 
We've got everything booked (hotels, car, distillery tours) except our race tickets. Secondary market prices for clubhouse level are significantly higher than they've been the last 3 years, so I'm waiting/hoping for a last minute drop before pulling the trigger.
 
The Oaks is a ton of fun. Churchill Downs used to be a client of mine, so I would go every year for both the Oaks and the Derby. The stands during the Oaks have an infield-at-the-Derby-like vibe to them, albeit more genteel. It's very much a locals race, and is a lot more laid back while still boasting an incredible day of racing.
 
I've been to Millionaire's Row, and while it's cool, I actually enjoyed myself more in the grandstand. Secondary market prices for Derby tix haven't dropped in my experience, but Oaks tickets should be fairly reasonable. 363 days out of the year I wouldn't touch a mint julep, but on Oaks and Derby days, they're a must have.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Mar 24, 2008
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Deathofthebambino said:
Dernell, I think it's a good deal in that your costs are capped for the initial 30 months.  That's something you don't normally see in the industry, and that's the problem with ownership in a lot of cases.  Like I said originally, I have a lot of friends that own horses, and every month, they get a bill for some sort of vet visit or other random cost that they weren't expecting in addition to the costs of training, feeding, housing, transportation, etc. that they were expecting.  The reason they are offering it is the same reason anybody offers people the chance to invest in something.  Why does Google or Microsoft or Apple sells shares of their company?  Why do start-ups offer investors the ability to participate in and the reap the benefits of their company? The owners of the stable are passing off some of the cost and risk associated with their horses, just like any other business owner looking for investors.
 
As for the 30 months, our ownership doesn't end after 30 months.  That's just how long our initial investment covers the costs.  At that point, we'll have the option of deciding to continue on as owners or not.  For example, if the decision is made to sell a horse at that time, there wouldn't be any additional costs, and we'd just split the revenue from the sale.  If we keep the horse, it's like any other investment, if there is a profit on the horse each quarter (either through racing or stud fees or whatever), then dividends will be paid.  But if the horse is costing money, then we would now have to start paying for them out of pocket just like any other horse owner.   Or if it feels like it's just a money pit and want out, we can give up our ownership.  We still own the horses at the end of the 30 months, but at that point, we can revisit whether or not we want to continue on, or if we want to call it quits.
Got it, and this makes a lot more sense. I for some reason was taken your 30 month prepay as more of a lease where you have nothing at the end, but could they would then offer to sell you your previous share at whatever the new market rate was if it was a winning horse.
 
I'm definitely interested in hearing updates whether you're winning or having horrible luck just to hear what the experience ends up being.
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
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Aug 23, 2006
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RSN Diaspora said:
I've been to Millionaire's Row, and while it's cool, I actually enjoyed myself more in the grandstand. Secondary market prices for Derby tix haven't dropped in my experience, but Oaks tickets should be fairly reasonable. 363 days out of the year I wouldn't touch a mint julep, but on Oaks and Derby days, they're a must have.
 
I don't normally mind grandstand seats, but making this long of a trip as a horseplayer, I prefer to be closer to the wire, and the wife would prefer to be undercover. So it kind of has to be third-floor clubhouse for us both to get what we want. Also, when I was there two years ago, the infield tents and temporary seating were so high that if you wanted to see any of the backstretch at all, you needed to get as high as you could.
 
It's odd that tickets are being listed for some much higher this year. Each of the last few years I have set stubhub alerts at $1000 for 3rd floor clubhouse tickets, and got multiple hits each year except this year. Last year I bought two tickets in 313 for $799 each but had to resell because I couldn't make it. Right now there's nothing in that section available under $1,270. There are still a couple of thousand seats listed though, so I do expect them to drop.
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
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Aug 23, 2006
8,294
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It'd probably be remiss of us not to mention the Steve Asmussen scandal. Asmussen is one of the winningest trainers of the last several decades, whose horses include Rachel Alexandra. His nomination for the Hall of Fame was pulled a few weeks ago after a PETA expose' documented pretty awful treatment of horses by his stable. The PETA video was followed by a New York Times Article, and a couple of weeks later, one of his former employees committed suicide.
 
Asmussen trains one of the favorites for the Oaks, Untapable, as well as top Derby Contender Tapiture. Many in the industry are calling for him to hand over the horses and not show up at Churchill Downs, or for him to be kept out. If he's there, it will likely be a bigger mess than we saw with the Doug O'Neill mess a couple of years ago.
 
EDIT: The PETA video also included footage of Gary Stevens and D. Wayne Lukas laughing about Stevens's and other jockeys' use of electrical shockers on horses during races.
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
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Florida Derby winner Constitution is out of the Kentucky Derby due to a hairline fracture suffered in a training session.