2014 NBA Draft Thread (No Spoilers You Clowns)
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I'm not in love with Payne either, he can shoot, but he can't protect the rim at all. He's 22 and his ceiling looks like backup/rotation Stretch 4. His floor is probably a bit higher than most as he has one clear skill, but I'd rather see them shoot for someone with more upside, especially considering we already have a frontcourt full of guys who can shoot but not defend the rim. Payne is unlikely to end up better than Sullinger or Bass, or even Olynyk. Payne strikes me as a guy who gets it done in College as a Senior, but can't do the same things against bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic NBA players.
My draft board today:
1. Parker
2. Wiggins
3. Embiid
4. Randle
5. Smart
6. Exum
I think the top six have separated themselves from the pack for the moment.
1. Parker
2. Wiggins
3. Embiid
4. Randle
5. Smart
6. Exum
I think the top six have separated themselves from the pack for the moment.
I would draft Embiid with #1. But back to the Celtics, even if they continue to play like crap (so disappointing after their decent start) and slip into a top 6 pick, there is still the Atlanta pick to consider, and that pick will likely be around #20. That's still high enough to find good value. I'd like to see them go big with that pick, or else find a pure shooter, which this roster definitely needs.
I think it is a top 7 with Gordon, but otherwise agree.amfox1 said:
I also agree that Embiid unless something happens is going top 4.
he's 6'9" with a 7'0" wingspan, from what I've seen he is making blocks on small guys with no talent. Jon Giovony at Draftexpress has a nice video of his strengths and weaknesses, and his defense gets a long look in the weaknesses section.http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Adreian-Payne-5286/Kliq said:
Cellar-Door said:
Gordon's up there for me as well. And Vonleh's not too far behind. After that, there's not many guys I'm too keen on, but Dario Saric has an interesting mix of skills. He can handle the ball really well for a guy his size, plus he's creative with nice vision, though he needs to shoot better to make up for his lack of athleticism.
For what it is worth, Payne also is a very good kid, great character. He had planned to enter the draft last year decided against it since he was good friends with a little girl with cancer who was going through treatments last year. He wanted to be around to support and help her. It was a big story around the area.BigSoxFan said:
He is a very hard working student who studies and tries his best in classes. I know since he was in a class taught by my spouse and despite a very difficult practice and game schedule last fall, he made it to classes and more than kept up with the readings. He out worked most of the other students in the class.
He is a high character kid, no doubt about it.
After watching Kansas lose at home to San Diego State, I'm starting to wonder what NBA teams are tanking for. Embiid was decent, but Wiggins and Selden were underwhelming. IMHO the best player on the floor was SD State's Marcus Thames.
Brickowski said:
The thing I don't like about Wiggins is that I've seen him a few times and he's very hit or miss on the offensive end. He relies heavily on his athleticism and is great in transition, but at times he kind of disappears on the court offensively. He's had some really impressive games, and you can see glimpses of what the scouts rave about, but I just don't see that killer instinct out there. He's got all the natural talent you could ask for, I just want to see him be more involved offensively. Maybe some of that has to do with getting comfortable with the Jayhawks offense. They are starting 3 freshman and I'm not familiar enough with the system Kansas runs, so I'm not sure how "superstar" friendly it is. But tonight, when KU got the game within a bucket, they went to Perry Ellis while Wiggins stood off in the corner. If Wiggins is the best player on the court, I want the ball in his hands when it matters.
Embiid was a guy I didn't think I'd like coming into the season, but I really like his upside. He's extremely raw, especially offensively, but he moves really well for a guy his size and is already making an impact on the defensive end. He can control the paint. He's probably the furthest from being ready of the top 5 or 6 prospects, but if everything clicks you've got yourself a franchise center and a guy you can build your team defense around.
For what it's worth, many teams in the NBA simply suck, and are not tanking yet.Brickowski said:
BTW his name is Xavier Thames, not Marcus. 5th year senior. My guess is that he can have a decent career in Europe or as an NBA backup.
Yes, many teams have sucked so far, e.g. the Knicks, who have no reason to tank. So it's hard to know which teams are playing for the lottery. But I think Ainge is quite content to lose. Now that Rondo is ready to play in games, they'll "rehab" him in Maine. That way he won't produce any unwanted Celtics victories if he happens to play well.
Yes, many teams have sucked so far, e.g. the Knicks, who have no reason to tank. So it's hard to know which teams are playing for the lottery. But I think Ainge is quite content to lose. Now that Rondo is ready to play in games, they'll "rehab" him in Maine. That way he won't produce any unwanted Celtics victories if he happens to play well.
I doubt he'll ever see the court in a Maine game. He's been cleared for full contact finally, but Boston is in the middle of a brutal stretch of games and the actual practice time is going to be limited. So he's going to Maine to finish the rehab process. I daresay that Boston prefers him on the floor sooner rather than later so that they can increase the premium for him. I imagine that the Knicks are lowballing them and that the other two two teams with FORs are hesitant to trade with him still rehabbing and the Knicks lurking in the background.
nighthob said:
The only reason the Knicks are lowballing is because they don't have anything to offer that wouldn't be considered a lowball offer. Unless they're taking both Wallace and Bass with Rondo, with Danny willing to take back Amare (unlikely), I don't see any way a deal gets done between the two teams. The Knicks don't have any draft picks to trade, Shumpert/Hardaway Jr are the only two players I'd be interested in and neither does much to motivate me to move Rondo. I just don't see a deal between the two teams happening at all.
The only deal I can come up with is: Rondo, Wallace, Bass for Amare, Shumpert, Hardaway Jr. and like a 2018 or 19 unprotected 1st round pick. That's not getting much for your best player, other than to get out of Wallace's deal. You can probably move Bass on his own in a deal like the one they just did with C. Lee, if you are really interested in getting out of that deal. Amare would be a huge expiring next season, but he's not worth much more than that. Shumpert hasn't really done much to progress as a player, and Hardaway Jr. seems like a decent guy off the bench. I'd rather just keep Rondo if that's all we were to get, even if we were able to get rid of Wallace in the process.
I'm not a Brandon Jennings fan, but this doesn't make much sense to me. The Pistons are already desperately short on perimeter shooting - they're shooting a league worst .318 from 3. I can't even imagine what that would look like with Rondo on the court.Brickowski said:
Rondo needs to go to a team with legit three point threats at the 2, 3, and 4. I'm not sure who that is honestly, other than maybe the Rockets.
nighthob said:
You're probably right that they're trying to get Rondo on the cheap. But even if they did include those swaps, is a team with Rondo/Melo/Chandler and whoever else they can get there to sign on the cheap to fill out the roster going to net you a higher pick than what the C's would have without Rondo? That's likely a team competing for a 4/5/6 spot in the playoffs over the next few years as Brooklyn ages and the C's rebuild.
If the C's deal Rondo, I'd want a young player with some really good upside, like a CJ McCollum, Harrison Barnes or Andre Drummond or a really promising draft pick (like one of the Knicks unprotected 1sts from Denver). I just don't think the Knicks have the assets to pull off a deal that would make Danny pull the trigger.
It's worth breaking out, but yes - I think that can work without a true stretch 4, but it's a lot more difficult. Ray Allen isn't just a three point threat - he was a HOF three point threat, shooting over 45% from 3 in some seasons on high volume.BigSoxFan said:
There are other guys like Ray out there, but not many.
ElcaballitoMVP said:
I won't argue any of this, the problem is that with the Knicks openly tampering and letting Rondo know that there's a max deal waiting for him in Manhattan Boston is going to have to go supermax to keep him. Are you really comfortable with building a team around a 5/104 contract given to a guy from a class of players that tend to fall off a cliff before that deal would be done? If we were discussing a top 10 guy I wouldn't hesitate for a minute. We're not. Hence my remark that I disagree that Boston doesn't want Rondo to return. I think they see the writing on the wall and want someone like Sacramento or Detroit to feel comfortable in trading for Rondo (and thanks to the Manhattan factor Boston's potential trade partners have been reduced to teams with FORs).
Maybe if Minnesota wants to give up on Rubio? He can't shoot either, and Rondo IS much better defensively and would be a major upgrade for them. Rubio + salary + picks might work out.
I still say if Rondo goes, it's to Detroit along with a first rounder and possibly another player for Jennings and Monroe. The Pistons do not want to match a max offer sheet for Monroe and Josh Smith wants to play with his Oak Hill buddy. Plus the Pistons get out from under their longish deal with Jennings.
Brickowski said:
Makes sense. There are a lot of trade options between Boston and Detroit. Something based around Rondo, Bass, plus one of Crawford or Bogans for Jennings, Monroe, Charlie V works, and you could add in young guys like Caldwell-Pope or Singler if Danny wanted more. Throw in a '16 or '17 1st rounder with limited protection and a deal looks feasible from both ends.
Danny could also mandate that any Rondo trade must include G. Wallace and his contract. A Rondo, Wallace, Bass or Crawford for Jennings, Monroe, Charlie V with two young guys like KCP and Datome works too.
ishmael said:
I'm not sure what anyone can do with Jennings that is going to make him anything other than who he is right now, which is a high-volume, low-percentage, shoot-first PG. I'm not particularly impressed with him, but he is only 24 and is signed for a bit cheaper and a year longer than Rondo is. If Stevens thought he'd be a good fit for his offense, I guess I could get behind it so long as we are getting additional pieces for the future in the deal.
Why is Rondo better than Rubio defensively? That actually seems to be Rubio's best skill, both from a scouting report, and a stats POV.Wake's knuckle said:
Two guys who are mighty intriguing - Jerami Grant and Jerian Grant.
Jerami is very raw an offensive player right now, but a freakish athlete for a small forward. If he comes out this year, he would be a hell of an upside play in the 10-20 range, which is where our pick could end up.
Jerian is a 6-5 combo guard with a lot more polish than his brother offensively, and less upside. Shot 40% from the college 3 and is a facilitator. He had to withdraw this year for academic reasons and has one year of eligibility left, so him coming out is unlikely, but if he does it would be easy to get him to come play with his brother in free agency.
Jerami is very raw an offensive player right now, but a freakish athlete for a small forward. If he comes out this year, he would be a hell of an upside play in the 10-20 range, which is where our pick could end up.
Jerian is a 6-5 combo guard with a lot more polish than his brother offensively, and less upside. Shot 40% from the college 3 and is a facilitator. He had to withdraw this year for academic reasons and has one year of eligibility left, so him coming out is unlikely, but if he does it would be easy to get him to come play with his brother in free agency.
Well, the Grant brothers' pedigree is good. Their father is Harvey Grant, a decent player for the Bullets in the early 90's, and their Uncle is Horace Grant. Plus, they both went to DeMatha.
Atlanta is now 2-4 since the Horford injury. I think the Hawks probably still make the playoffs by default but the chances of that Atlanta/Brooklyn pick being in the 15-19 range now seem pretty good. It seems like a given that the best ten records of playoff teams will be the Western conference contingent plus Miami/Indiana. The remaining six Eastern conference playoff teams will therefore draft 15-20 and I can definitely see Toronto and maybe 1-2 of Washington, Charlotte, and Detroit finishing ahead of both Atlanta and Brooklyn at this rate.
I'll use this post as an excuse to post this:The X Man Cometh said:
Jerami Grant's block against St. Johns
http://youtu.be/pjlCgQB-rGk
edit:
oh what the heck, one more, a putback dunk:
http://youtu.be/g5isAbqAUC0
Devizier said:
Wasn't Rondo considered more or less the top defensive PG in the league? I seem to recall seeing that he had insane numbers...
Wake's knuckle said:
Rondo gets a lot of steals which has bolstered his defensive rep over the years while the eye test would tell you he has generally been a pretty lazy defender whose matador D was covered up by Kevin Garnett being otherworldly at preventing opposing players from scoring.
It's all but meaningless and pointless at this early juncture, but ESPN's mock draft/lottery is online. Ford has the C's taking Cauley-Stein at their current spot and Parker with the #1, which took me a couple dozen spins.
By public rep, yes. Unfortunately even Boston didn't let him defend the PG spot and used Bradley in that role and let Rondo just wander around gambling for steals. Bradley and Phoenix's Eric Bledsoe are probably the best defensive 1s in the NBA at the moment.Wake's knuckle said:
I don't think any of the current 2014 mock drafts from the so-called gurus are close to being right.
There's definitely been a "worm-turning" at ESPN lately with Embiid showing up #1 on a lot of lists.
I've read that he was identified as a talent at an early age and was the protégé of the coach of Cameroon's national team. Maybe he started playing organized ball in 2011 (when he would have been the equivalent of a high school sophomore), but I bet Embiid has been playing longer than that.
Watching this Kansas-Kansas State game, and Wiggins looks like he's going to be a hell of a player to me. He's not as polished as you'd like, necessarily, but I think he's more polished than a guy like Giannis A. in Milwaukee, and he looks like he could be a franchise changing talent. A lot of people seem less impressed by this draft class than they were 2 months ago, but if a team could potentially land Wiggins at #3, that's a really good draft.
Wiggins hasn't impressed me. IMHO he's got too much Gerald Green in him. Maybe he will become a star, but not right away.
Apparently he was a soccer and volleyball player in Cameroon. Soccer makes sense, since Cameroon has historically been one of the best African countries.Brickowski said:
PS: Embiid tossed after throwing a KG-esque elbow in today's tilt vs. K-State.
But Wiggins projects to be an elite defender. That's what people seem to ignore in their critiques of him. He doesn't need to be a 30 ppg scorer if he's a force on both ends.Brickowski said: