2014 Raiders: Gunfighter Gets to Name This Thread

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
SeoulSoxFan said:
Off-topic. Gunfighter 09, as a Raiders fan, why the hell did they give Marcel Reece a multi-year contract last year? And more importantly, why the hell wasn't he involved in the offensive game plan more?
 
I'm asking purely as a card-carrying Marcel Reece Fanboy Club (hi SF121).
Because he is the best FB in the league, whatever that is worth in 2014.

The hope is that, with competent Qb & line play, they can take better advantage of his skills. Reece also wasn't that expensive relative to the tailback market, and he certainly has tailback skills. His contract compares favorably with what Rashad Jennings & Toby Gearhart got, for example.

It is weird that Reggie started by paying his niche talents (Reece & janikowski) and then let Veldheer & Houston go. But, they are going to have $30M+ to spend the next two or three years, so it is not hard to see the plan and recognize that, if Reggie can draft and otherwise acquire younger talent, they will peak right as Denver, KC & San Diego are in a post spending / Qb lull in 15/16.


Can the powers that be chop out a Raiders thread? I get to name it, of course.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,104
A Scud Away from Hell
Gunfighter 09 said:
Can the powers that be chop out a Raiders thread? I get to name it, of course.
 
I've really enjoyed your updates & rants on the Raiders in the past GF. Happy to have you name this anyway you see fit.
 

Dollar

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2006
11,156
Any thoughts on why they let Veldheer go?  That move just seemed really odd to me, especially when they decided to give an even bigger contract to Roger Saffold (which ultimately was voided when he failed the Raiders physical).  
 
Locking up Veldheer for the long term seemed like the obvious move, unless they were worried about lasting effects from his triceps injury, or some other reason that I can't seem to figure out.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,104
A Scud Away from Hell
Would love to hear from GF but I thought letting home-grown talents Veldheer and Houston go were inexplicable, especially with all that cap space.
 
And obviously the Cards didn't think much of the injury by handing out that 5-year, $37.5m contract with $17m guaranteed to Veldheer.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
I will put up a summary once I get off of det later this week. Regardless of what you think of the Silver & Black, this offseason has been fascinating.
 
 
 
Dollar said:
Any thoughts on why they let Veldheer go?  That move just seemed really odd to me, especially when they decided to give an even bigger contract to Roger Saffold (which ultimately was voided when he failed the Raiders physical).  
 
Locking up Veldheer for the long term seemed like the obvious move, unless they were worried about lasting effects from his triceps injury, or some other reason that I can't seem to figure out.
 
I only have two theories for this one:
 
1. They just didnt like Veldheer that much for two reasons. First, Veldheer got much bigger between 2012 & 2013 and subsequently got hurt and was frankly less effective after his return in 2013 than he was in 2011 / 12. The thought is that his PED use was extreme even by NFL standards and the Raiders were concerned about this. Second, Veldheer was close to a deal in December and then fired his agent to hire his brother as his agent. Supposedly Reggie and the brother / father agent combination didnt get along very well in negotiations. I don't place much credence in this theory.
 
2. The McKinzie / Allen / Sparano Raiders leadership has viewed Veldheer as a very good RT and an average LT. I am under the impression that they offered Veldheer somewhere between what they paid Austin Howard (4 years / $6M per)  and the 5/$37.5 that Veldheer got from Arizona.
 
I am not qualified to question the opinions / espertise of an O line guru like Tony Sparano, but I would have paid Veldheer the $8M/per that it would have taken to keep him in Oakland for the next 5 years. I thought giving Saffold $8.5M / per for 5 years was excessive and was happy when he failed the physical. They are paying a motivated Donald Penn and last year's second round pick Menelick Watson a total of $5.6M against the cap to compete for the LT spot, so they did save some money in replacing Veldheer. The hope is that Penn plays to prove something and regains his pro bowl form while Watson continues to develop (he has only played football for four years after growing up in England) in the 3rd tackle / back up role into the eventual replacement who will get a long term deal. If Penn succeeds and Watson fails, they are back at square one in two years (Penn is 32) and if they both fail they are totally fucked relative to the, at worst top ~12 LT they had with Veldheer for just a little more money. I still would have paid Veldheer, but I like the current pairing more than Saffold for $42M.
 
SeoulSoxFan said:
Would love to hear from GF but I thought letting home-grown talents Veldheer and Houston go were inexplicable, especially with all that cap space.
 
And obviously the Cards didn't think much of the injury by handing out that 5-year, $37.5m contract with $17m guaranteed to Veldheer.
 
I would have signed Houston for $7M per and $20M guaranteed over 5 years. The Raiders supposedly want to flex between a 3-4 & 4-3 and Houston is the perfect mix between a 4-3 RE and 3-4 DE on either side, being big and strong enough to hold position and still have some pass rushing ability. He does not have the footspeed / quickness to every get more than 6-8 sacks and he will always have a disproportionate pressures to sacks ration because of this, but I think in a world where the last good seasons or two of DeMarcus Ware and Julius Peppers are worth $10M, Houston is worth $8M/per for 4 years of his prime. This strikes me as a market mis-read by McKinzie mixed with a little bit of Allen not liking Houston's attitude.
 
Signing Justin Tuck for $6M + drafting a RDE / 3-4 DE in the second round and paying them their rookie $1M is probably the thought behind thinking it would be easy to replace Houston.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
Raiders bring back Pat Sims: [URL="http://www.nfl.com/n...ign=Twitter_atl"]http://www.nfl.com/n...ign=Twitter_atl
 
GF - I thought Sims would be a low-cost rotational DT for the Pats before Wilfork was brought back. Thoughts
It is a good deal for the Raiders to get him back. Per PFF, he was the #5 free agent DT last yeast at +14.7 over 674 snaps. He is big enough to hold the nose in a 3-4 and is quite disruptive at times as a 4-3 DT.

The reason he is on his third straight one year deal is that he is quite inconsistent and has a rep for taking plays off. He can be dominant at times (+8.2 in the second Chargers game last year) but also disappears for long stretches. At 28 he is not going to find a consistent motor, but he will be productive on the net and is worth a moderate investment.

In terms of MJD, the rumor is that the Raiders had an offer out to Michael Bush to return to Oakland, but pulled it when MJD reached out to The Raiders. At this stage of their careers, I would rather have Jones-Drew, but Bush can play. I wonder if Bush is not a candidate to take the Blount role in NE.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
Fuck yay. It has been fun watching Raiderfan keep  #DjaxToOakland  ​trending through the weekend. 
 
They have 31 players signed for less than $80M next year. Even with draft picks this year and next year, they will have about 70M to spend on 40ish players just to get to 89 for camp. They can afford to have a couple of them making $10M+, so they have plenty of room to go big for Jackson with something like 4/40 with a giant signing bonus they can stretch over the life of the contract. Like I said in the other thread, a receiving group of DJackson, JJones, Rod Streeter and Denarius Moore is damn good, perhaps even good enough to get to 8 wins. 
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,688
Arkansas
Good News Bad News
 
 
The Good Oakland has improve esp on Offer Fence  but u lack the firepower to score with Denver plus Dennis Allen is the first coach in Raider History Scared of Denver      Darren M is a 3rd down back as best  and Jones-Drew is best in a platoon role  u have num 2 type of WR'S  Moore c'ant stay on the field    
 
The Bad  Dennis Allen is a poor in game coach  Mostly on Offence but J Tuck is on the Decline so is L Woodley  C'ant stay on the field  but your Sch is Bruat because of the Sch i Cannot see more than 6 Wins  which means Allen will be gone  and Reggie M will be on the HOT seat  
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,479
j-man said:
Good News Bad News
 
 
The Good Oakland has improve esp on Offer Fence  but u lack the firepower to score with Denver plus Dennis Allen is the first coach in Raider History Scared of Denver      Darren M is a 3rd down back as best  and Jones-Drew is best in a platoon role  u have num 2 type of WR'S  Moore c'ant stay on the field    
 
The Bad  Dennis Allen is a poor in game coach  Mostly on Offence but J Tuck is on the Decline so is L Woodley  C'ant stay on the field  but your Sch is Bruat because of the Sch i Cannot see more than 6 Wins  which means Allen will be gone  and Reggie M will be on the HOT seat  
Most of your good doesn't sound very good...in fact, you should have just said, "one good thing and a bunch of Raider things."
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,688
Arkansas
my bad  
 
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Most of your good doesn't sound very good...in fact, you should have just said, "one good thing and a bunch of Raider things."
its just the incosity of the  raiders   
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,024
Mansfield MA
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Most of your good doesn't sound very good...in fact, you should have just said, "one good thing and a bunch of Raider things."
"One good thing and a bunch of Raider things" should be the name of this thread.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
Well not so much, they traded Pryor to Seattle for a 7th round pick. 
 
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10819210/oakland-raiders-trade-terrelle-pryor-seattle-seahawks
 
If you are scoring at home the Raiders turned their two starting QBs in 2012, Carson Palmer and Terrelle Pryor, into two 7th round picks in the 2014 NFL draft, as well as about 30 picks of draft position in the 2013 draft. They also turned their 2014 5th and 6th round picks into 1 start from Matt Flynn and an upcoming season of Matt Shaub.
 
Essentially, they picked Matt McGloin to be the third guy between Matt Shaub and whatever QB they draft. I really liked Pryor and I think it is foolish to trade him, just like I thought it was foolish to go with Matt McGloin over Pryor last season. Of course, I really liked Wily Mo Pena and Pryor is kind of like the football version of Wily Mo Pena, he is the best athlete in the NFL, but there is a better than average chance that he does not have the make up to be a QB in the NFL. If Pete Carroll can convince him to play receiver, he might be an All Pro. 
 
I will miss him, but I will always have this: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVY3_poRWWo
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
Reggie McKinzie and Dennis Allen are ecstatic to get Kahlil Mack. Me, not so much, but he should match up well with Sio Moore and you can't help but think that Justin Tuck and Lamar Woodley are good examples to learn from for the young guy. 
 
I am bit devastated at the Minnesota move to get TBW, but supposed Mark Davis favorite Derrick Carr is likely going to be there for the choosing at #36. I don't like Carr either and would prefer two trade downs on day 2. 
 

bbc23

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2009
994
There's a pretty unprecedented situation at #33 with Houston and Carr. It'd be extremely tough to sell Derek Carr as the future when his brother is the franchise's biggest bust in their short history.  Outside of Carr, there's a heck of a lot of talent at the top of the 2nd for the Raiders to choose from.  I'd hope that Reggie picks between Carr, Marquise Lee, or one of the many d-lineman (Ealy, Nix, Tuitt, Jernigan, Van Noy) that are still there.  Pretty tough to make a "bad pick" among those considering the many needs.  
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
Gunfighter 09 said:
Reggie McKinzie and Dennis Allen are ecstatic to get Kahlil Mack. Me, not so much, but he should match up well with Sio Moore and you can't help but think that Justin Tuck and Lamar Woodley are good examples to learn from for the young guy. 
 
I am bit devastated at the Minnesota move to get TBW, but supposed Mark Davis favorite Derrick Carr is likely going to be there for the choosing at #36. I don't like Carr either and would prefer two trade downs on day 2. 
 
If there was no trade (down) to be had, picking Mack was the right move. Although not extorting Atlanta for a 5th rounder to swap spots is a poor decision, given the plethora of needs and Mack being somewhat redundant given Woodley and Moore, but talent is always a good thing to add. 
 
Is Marc at all rational? Like, if they suck again next year, is he gonna axe McKenzie or let him continue on with "the plan"?
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
soxfan121 said:
 
If there was no trade (down) to be had, picking Mack was the right move. Although not extorting Atlanta for a 5th rounder to swap spots is a poor decision, given the plethora of needs and Mack being somewhat redundant given Woodley and Moore, but talent is always a good thing to add. 
 
Is Marc at all rational? Like, if they suck again next year, is he gonna axe McKenzie or let him continue on with "the plan"?
They picked with 7:30 left on the clock, with both Lewan and Matthews on the board I don't think they had the ability to extort Atlanta, who was picking one of the two OTs no matter what. People close to the team are saying they had Clowney & Mack as basically equal and were shocked that one of the two were available. We do know they had a deal in place with Detroit if Watkins was there at 5.

As for today, they had Carr as the #1 Qb and considering the evaluations of Mayock and other smart guys, that is defensible. I can't get past the family history and how bad a really motivated USC team made Carr look, but what do I know. I fucking love the Gabe Jackson pick and really like getting an extra 4 out of Miami. They actually have 7 or 8 good offensive linemen in the team now. I don't mind passing on Nix relative to picking Jackson based on the number of DTs left vs. good guards.

As for Tommy boy firing people, I think D Allen has to win 7 games to keep him job and Reggie is back next year no matter what, unless Gruden wants both jobs, then all bets are off. The other wild card is if M. Davis has to take on other owners to get to LA or get a new stadium and those people might want changes.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
Super Nomario said:
Do other people see this hilarious picture on the ad sidebar: http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/12132163866487388473 (sorry, can't embed)
 
I know they're terrible ... but this is really the best the marketing department can do?
 
He almost looks like he is drunk. I'd also say it was a parody ad if I didn't know better.
 
This team drafted Khalil Mack.  Doesn't that seem like a much more interesting and exciting prospect for Raider fans?
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,717
Super Nomario said:
"One good thing and a bunch of Raider things" should be the name of this thread.
 
catching up on some of these team threads, just have to say I love this as a thread title, too.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
Mack is in plenty of their advertising. They do just fine in the publicity department. Where they are not doing fine is in getting a stadium in Oakland: 
 
 
nitially, the Athletics' lease at the Coliseum was to end following the 2015 season, which would have given the Raiders almost three years to build a new home for themselves on the site by 2018. The so-called Coliseum City project would include a hotel, restaurants, housing and stores as part of a revitalization project.
With the Athletics' desire to move south to San Jose well-known, Raiders owner Mark Davis has said that he wants the Coliseum area for his team, but he could envision two new stadiums on the site -- one for the A's and one for the Raiders.
"It will be critical to demolish the existing stadium in 2015" if the project is to be finished on time, Coliseum City attorney Zachary Wasserman said in the July 2 memo to Quan and City Administrator Henry Gardner, per the Chronicle report.
Wasserman added that the Raiders "are making arrangements to play elsewhere," the Chronicle added, without specifying where, exactly.
The stadium is actually controlled by the Coliseum Authority, whose chairman is Nate Miley, who is also the county supervisor. He told the Chronicle that demolishing the Coliseum was "totally preposterous. ... We still owe about $180 million on the stadium.
"This is either smoke and mirrors, or they're on crack."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11195647/oakland-raiders-reportedly-talks-demolish-oakland-coliseum-build-new-stadium
 
The Raiders thought they were close on the Coliseum city deal with international investors paying to help tear down the Coliseum and replace it with two new stadiums and a shopping center. That required tearing down the existing stadium in 2015. With the A's deal that won't happen. Without the Coliseum city deal, the Raiders don't stay in Oakland...... so where are they going to go: 
 
1. LA is probably where Marc Davis wants to go. I don't see the NFL letting him go back. The best case is that the NFL lets him take the inland empire deal that Ed Roski is offering and still has the down town carrot for other owners to extort their current cities with. 
2. Portland / Sacramento both want NFL teams, and neither can really support one. 
3. Vegas- once again, it will never happen, but apparently Al wanted it to happen: http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/norm-clarke/al-davis-envisioned-las-vegas-raiders
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,550
KPWT
Old Fart Tree said:
Al Davis. In Vegas. With the Raiders.
 
I think I just wet my pants a little.
 
 
It actually makes a ton of sense. It is equal distance  between the two fan base centers in LA and the East Bay and would allow them to keep most of the fans they have now. It would give them their own market, in one that is large enough to support a team. Vegas is probably much more willing to fund a stadium than any city in California. You have a large blue collar population that matches up well with the fan bases' historical profile. It would open up the awesome possibility of a Vegas Superbowl which might be the greatest event in history. 
 
But, Roger Goodell (and all of his predecessors) would like you to believe that there is little to no gambling associated with the NFL, so it would never happen. Sad, really. 
 
Personally, I want Marc to take the Roski blood money and play in Diamond Bar in a state of the art stadium.