2015 Washington Football: RGIIIrd String

Winger 03 · Aug 30, 2015

It's about damn time.

2012 seems like so long ago.

He can no longer be the type of QB he was then, nor does he seem to want to. He is incapable of being a Manning type of QB which he says he can be.

In sum, he is not a very good QB no matter what system he runs. If it were not for the $$$$$ and the man crush Snyder has on him, they would have pressed the button on him a long time ago.

DJnVa · Aug 30, 2015

If there's no interest from other teams, can you really say you've had trade discussions?

dcmissle · Aug 30, 2015

It is McCloughan and Gruden'vs Snyder and Allen, and it's about damn time. The first two understand sunk cost; the latter two do not, or don't care.

Here is the bottom line: in this system, RGIII is the third best QB on the team. There is no room for reasonable debate about that. He sucks. People around the League who have no ax to grind are in unanimous agreement on the point. The production is lousy, the game film far worse.

Assuming, hypothetically, you could change systems, it would not matter. It would not matter because RGIII is adamant about not going back to 2012. And for very good reason: he could not stand up to the beating. He is now on his third concussion and has still to reveal any ability to slip a hit.

Now Stich says the other two QBs suck too, so it may not matter. But it does matter because 52 guys on the the don't see it that way. So they are on the cusp of losing the entire team. Not to mention the town.

I suspect these leaks are not coming from any of the four men mentioned above. The first two are too smart; the leaks do not help the last two.

I suspect the leaks are coming from knowledgeable people on the inside who are sick to their stomach over this.

Winger 03 · Aug 30, 2015

Trust me, the Redskins have a long history of talking to themselves.

I am very much looking forward to sports radio tomorrow.

DrewDawg said:
If there's no interest from other teams, can you really say you've had trade discussions?

Stitch01 · Aug 30, 2015

dcmissle said:
It is McCloughan and Gruden'vs Snyder and Allen, and it's about damn time. The first two understand sunk cost; the latter two do not, or don't care.

Here is the bottom line: in this system, RGIII is the third best QB on the team. There is no room for reasonable debate about that. He sucks. People around the League who have no ax to grind are in unanimous agreement on the point. The production is lousy, the game film far worse.

Assuming, hypothetically, you could change systems, it would not matter. It would not matter because RGIII is adamant about not going back to 2012. And for very good reason: he could not stand up to the beating. He is now on his third concussion and has still to reveal any ability to slip a hit.

Now Stich says the other two QBs suck too, so it may not matter. But it does matter because 52 guys on the the don't see it that way. So they are on the cusp of losing the entire team. Not to mention the town.

I suspect these leaks are not coming from any of the four men mentioned above. The first two are too smart; the leaks do not help the last two.

I suspect the leaks are coming from knowledgeable people on the inside who are sick to their stomach over this.

Its time to end the RGIII era there but they don't have a solution the other QBs suck. The season is pretty much over before it starts, not like they are good outside quarterback either. Then next year will be lost as they try and groom a new quarterback barring catching 2012 RGIII lightning in a bottle, probably with a new coach as well. They should be looking towards 2017 but the coaches and GMs, who are going to get fired, can't really make personnel moves geared to it. Then they get to try to rebuild with Snyder and whoever is still willing to work for Snyder.

They're fucked and will be fucked for awhile. Maybe next time they get a QB who needs his athleticism to succeed they can maybe not play him while clearly injured and avoid setting the franchise back a decade.

Winger 03 · Aug 30, 2015

I have heard this $hit for so many years I cannot count them. The latest "adults in the room" are McCloughan and Gruden. Before them it was Allen and Shanahan, before that it was Gibbs, before that.......

Bullshit.

This team, a far far cry from the team of my youth, is so f'ed up it is seemingly beyond repair.

What Snyder and Allen think is salvageable with Griffin is beyond my comprehension. I can almost see a Steinbrenner-esque missive to Gruden "if we cut Griffin, you better win or else". With Griffin or without, they are only going to win 5 games anyway and Gruden is shown the gate and we start all over again next season.

YTF · Aug 31, 2015

Kirk Cousins named starter for the season opener. Speculation on Mike and Mike this morning that there is talk (not confirmation) of releasing RGIII
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13549307/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-named-week-1-starting-qb

dcmissle · Aug 31, 2015

Resolved. Look for RGIII to be cut or deactivated every game this season.

sodenj5 · Aug 31, 2015

I don't know much about the guy, but I have a hard time believing that RGIII will be ok with just sitting around waiting for an opportunity if he's fully healthy and deemed physically active. That could get really ugly. What a fall for him personally, and as an organization with the amount of draft capital and money they invested in Griffin, they could be set back years and years.

Cousins is exactly the type of quarterback that could lead them to being good enough to win some games, but too good for them to secure a top draft pick and get another franchise QB anytime soon.

nattysez · Aug 31, 2015

They can't play RGIII.

As Adam Schefter reported over the weekend, Griffin is owed $16 million next season, and that money is guaranteed if Griffin gets injured. As Schefter noted, because of how injury-prone Griffin has proved to be in his short career in the NFL, teams that might otherwise be interested in trading for Griffin are staying away because they don't want to take on $16 million in guaranteed money if he is quickly re-injured.

I expect them to cut him, but we'll see.

Winger 03 · Aug 31, 2015

Once he gets better (from the ... ahem.... concussion) I expect them to deactivate him and tell him to stay home or outright cut him.

What may be interesting is how this is handled. Sure he is Snyder's guy (and has been for a very long time), but give Snyder some space and let him have a more objective view of Griffin's actions over the years and in situations like that Snyder can turn vindictive. And that vindictiveness can manifest itself in trying to screw over Griffin in some manner.

Many years ago, the Redskins has Laveranues Coles on the roster. Here is how this one ended......

If you want to know how badly Coles and the Redskins needed a divorce, consider this: Redskins owner Daniel Snyder threatened Coles when the receiver's refusal to accept the trade without a contract extension thwarted the deal last month. "He said that if I stayed in Washington, he would turn me into another Terry Glenn," Coles said. (Glenn, now with the Cowboys, missed most of the 2001 season with New England as his public feud with head coach Bill Belichick resulted in various fines, suspensions and ultimately Glenn's benching). "He said he would send a flat-screen television to my home because I'd be better off watching the games there. That was his way of saying I'd be sitting for the next couple years until they cut me."

dbn · Aug 31, 2015

There's an opening for the starting position on a team for which he is already on the depth chart.

https://vimeo.com/83537952

SeoulSoxFan · Aug 31, 2015

The negative part of this scouting report from 2012 was pretty right on, per @LanceZierlein who linked to this article:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/draftcaps19-vn4vq55-148026515.html (bold mine)

"Everybody is just assuming because of the Heisman and the socks and all that bs. . . . they are ignoring a lot of bad tape that he's had," a third scout said. "I don't think he has vision or pocket feel, which to me are the two most important components of quarterbacking. He's just running around winging it. He's (Michael) Vick, but not as good a thrower." Finished with passer rating of 110.1 and 2,254 yards rushing (33 TDs). "He has better arm action and is more accurate with his deep ball, but he's not as good as Cam Newton," a fourth scout said. "As much as is written about his athleticism, his athleticism under duress in the pocket isn't even close to Cam Newton's. This guy, the only way he gets big plays with his feet is if he's got a wide-open field and the sea opens for him. He's got a little bit of a selfish streak, too. Everybody was laying on Cam, but for some reason this guy has become gloves off. He doesn't treat anybody good." Another scout also questioned the way Griffin deals with people.

Myt1 · Aug 31, 2015

What in RG3's past makes you think that he cares more about himself than the team? The guy kept taking the ball while on one leg while his coach was willing to get him killed to win.

He's been fucked his whole career.

Devizier · Aug 31, 2015

I'd be more concerned that Griffin is physically finished as a football player than all of the other nonsense. The Redskins are such a shitshow that the drama around him was to be expected.

lambeau · Aug 31, 2015

In speaking of RG III tonight, Brian Billick said the League sent a huge message with its response to the Suggs hit: "If you expose your QB like that, we're not going to protect him."

Winger 03 · Aug 31, 2015

That is spot on accurate. Something's interssting down here. There are a large number of people who are RGIII fans first and Redskins fans second. It is these folks who thing somehow he was wronged and that there was some sort of conspiracy to cause him to fail. There is a real blind spot for some of his fans.

DJnVa · Aug 31, 2015

Myt1 said:
What in RG3's past makes you think that he cares more about himself than the team? The guy kept taking the ball while on one leg while his coach was willing to get him killed to win.

He's been fucked his whole career.

No kidding. Washington is dysfunctional and has fucked up so many things. I'm not buying any spin out of that team or front office.

I'm not saying he's going to be good elsewhere, but come on, the Skins are horrible, from top to bottom.

dcmissle · Aug 31, 2015

I am sorry for creating this detour.

Eagle fans, reclaim your turf.

Van Everyman · Aug 31, 2015

I moved from DC before we got to see much RGIII but IMO, it's hard to overstate how badly Shanny fucked him up. That playoff game was one of the most awful and obvious mistakes I'd seen by a coach since Grady's boner. It was obvious to everyone watching that the guy was hurt – it was like Rocky insisting Apollo Creed go out for another round with Drago.

On my phone but my memory was that aside from not being able to avoid a hit downfield he had some special moments that rookie season – one insane back and forth game with the Giants sticks in my brain. That may be what is driving a lot of the sympathy from fans – true or not, this idea that RGIII was deprived of his chance to develop into a special player by a coach who either resented a QB being foisted on him or was so desperate to win a playoff game that he was willing to run a franchise player into the ground to do it.

Papelbon's Poutine · Aug 31, 2015

Snyder should look in the mirror of his fall is attributed to his knee. Of course Shanny shouldn't have played him, but the condition of the field directly led to the issue to begin with. There's no excuse for a professional football team to have a field in that kind of shape. Relay sod or install field turf. Christ even the Pats did it when they realized how dangerous it was.

Tony C · Aug 31, 2015

Van Everyman said:
I moved from DC before we got to see much RGIII but IMO, it's hard to overstate how badly Shanny fucked him up. That playoff game was one of the most awful and obvious mistakes I'd seen by a coach since Grady's boner. It was obvious to everyone watching that the guy was hurt – it was like Rocky insisting Apollo Creed go out for another round with Drago.

On my phone but my memory was that aside from not being able to avoid a hit downfield he had some special moments that rookie season – one insane back and forth game with the Giants sticks in my brain. That may be what is driving a lot of the sympathy from fans – true or not, this idea that RGIII was deprived of his chance to develop into a special player by a coach who either resented a QB being foisted on him or was so desperate to win a playoff game that he was willing to run a franchise player into the ground to do it.

It drives my sympathy for him. I have no stake in either the team or the guy and I'm not naive enough to either believe/disbelieve the stories about him as an a-hole, All that is noise. The only thing I know for a fact is that Shanny screwed RGIII big-time. That's indisputable. And a shame, because he sure as hell was a blast to watch during that first year.

Super Nomario · Aug 31, 2015

I think there's plenty of room to entertain both the ideas that Griffin was and is flawed and that the 'Skins have managed him poorly. He probably shouldn't have been a day one starter at all given the college system he was coming from, and because they largely adapted to him a) they had early success and b) he didn't develop. Then his knee injury, aside from all other stupidity, cost him his offseason, which is when players really have the opportunity to develop - there's little time for that kind of teaching in the grind of the regular season. Year two was a train wreck, and then Gruden came in last year and never really seemed to buy into RGIII and he got hurt again. Maybe he would have failed anywhere, but Washington's handling didn't help.

Fun with stats: RGIII completed 68.7% of his passes last year for 7.9 yards per attempt (would have ranked 2nd and 5th, respectively, if he'd had enough attempts to qualify). Both figures were much better than Tom Brady's. And Griffin actually had the worst Y/A on his team, as Cousins was at 8.4 and McCoy 8.3. Despite that, the Redskins finished 26th in points and 20th in yards and went 4-12.

Winger 03 · Aug 31, 2015

No doubt, 2012 was exciting. The close losses as well as the 7 game win streak. No finer Thanksgiving than seeing the Cowboys taken down that year. Big run against the Vikings, big hits from the Ravens and Falcons.

And then the playoffs against the Seahawks......

Terrible field, everyone knowing he was in bad shape, all hoping against hope that the lead would hold when we all knew it would not. Easy to ignore the BS when the team is winning. Then "all in for week 1" and it was downhill from there.

I wish he could have remained the player he was that season - even the losses were fun to watch. A small running QB with a quirky offense tailored to what he did best in a league of big lineman and defenses that eventually caught on. Lots of blame to go around in DC - Shanahan the elder, Dr. Andrews, Team Griffin, Snyder and Griffin himself. It all seems so long ago, how did they get here?

I hope he can catch on someplace else, but to what end? He is not an NFL caliber QB any longer, a change in scenery may only be just that with the same result as DC.

They gave up a lot to get him and Jeff Fisher with his BS of sending all the guys he got with the picks out for the coin toss last season aside, let me know when the Titans do anything with those guys. Hell, the Redskins would have somehow botched those picks anyway.

Frustrating........

SeoulSoxFan · Aug 31, 2015

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Snyder should look in the mirror of his fall is attributed to his knee. Of course Shanny shouldn't have played him, but the condition of the field directly led to the issue to begin with. There's no excuse for a professional football team to have a field in that kind of shape. Relay sod or install field turf. Christ even the Pats did it when they realized how dangerous it was.

Amen. That goes for McNair and the Texans too.

dcmissle · Aug 31, 2015

Everyone understands, I hope, that RGIII basically flat out refused to come out of that Seattlle playoff game.

I'll stipulate that Shamny should have pulled him anyway. But do people know that when RGIII was injured in another game that season, and Shanny tried to pull him, RGIII said, "you take me out, and you and I are done?"

That would be player speak for, "I will have your ass fired." Which RGIII eventually did.

Jason Reid, former WaPost reporter, and now radio host is my source for this.

This is what happens when you have a jock sniffing owner. Before RGIII, there was Clinton Portis.

It is all on Snyder.

As for 2012, RGIII should thank Mike and -- especially Kyle -- Shanahan, who ingeniously put in place a college offense for him that masked enormous deficiencies

it was never going to last. Pro defenses adjusted to it, and even if they hadn't, RGIII's body was never up to it long term. He cannot -- or refuses -- to protect himself, he not a big guy, he sustained his second concussion in 2012 before this recent third one, and that year, well before the Seattle game, Haloti Ngata damn near broke him in half.

Van Everyman · Sep 2, 2015

It's a good point, dcm. The player and the coach are each at fault in their own way but it comes back to Snyder. Snyder pretty much ruins everything, always.

FWIW, I thought this was an excellent piece on the unfortunate nature of the whole ordeal:

http://deadspin.com/rgiii-almost-saved-washington-and-then-he-didnt-1727780577?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Stitch01 · Sep 2, 2015

Of course the problem is Snyder. There's a reason we need concussion protocols, players are terrible at making the decision whether to pull themselves out of a game. Winning organizations don't create the kind of situations where players decide to play injured and the coach doesn't do anything about it for whatever reason. Winning organizations would have gotten more out of RG III rather than fostering his immaturity. They're facing 40 years in the desert with Danny Boy at the helm.

Erik Hanson's Hook · Sep 2, 2015

Winger 03 said:
No doubt, 2012 was exciting. The close losses as well as the 7 game win streak. No finer Thanksgiving than seeing the Cowboys taken down that year. Big run against the Vikings, big hits from the Ravens and Falcons.

And then the playoffs against the Seahawks......

Terrible field, everyone knowing he was in bad shape, all hoping against hope that the lead would hold when we all knew it would not. Easy to ignore the BS when the team is winning. Then "all in for week 1" and it was downhill from there.

I wish he could have remained the player he was that season - even the losses were fun to watch. A small running QB with a quirky offense tailored to what he did best in a league of big lineman and defenses that eventually caught on. Lots of blame to go around in DC - Shanahan the elder, Dr. Andrews, Team Griffin, Snyder and Griffin himself. It all seems so long ago, how did they get here?

I hope he can catch on someplace else, but to what end? He is not an NFL caliber QB any longer, a change in scenery may only be just that with the same result as DC.

They gave up a lot to get him and Jeff Fisher with his BS of sending all the guys he got with the picks out for the coin toss last season aside, let me know when the Titans do anything with those guys. Hell, the Redskins would have somehow botched those picks anyway.

Frustrating........

Did he really do this? Wow, Fisher is an even bigger asshole than I thought.

swiftaw · Sep 2, 2015

Winger 03 said:
They gave up a lot to get him and Jeff Fisher with his BS of sending all the guys he got with the picks out for the coin toss last season aside, let me know when the Titans do anything with those guys. Hell, the Redskins would have somehow botched those picks anyway.

Frustrating........

Rams?

Winger 03 · Sep 2, 2015

Sorry.... yes the Rams, not the Titans.

And yes, EHH he did send out the players last season for the coin toss.

Rams come into town week 2, if Griffin is cut, the Rams should snag him just for the comedy effect.

lambeau · Sep 2, 2015

http://thebiglead.com/2015/09/02/jessica-mccloughan-diana-russini-scot-mccloughan/

Trouble inside the beltway for McCloughan--accused of leaking hot take on QB's.

ipol · Sep 2, 2015

He said leaking.

dcmissle · Sep 2, 2015

The tweet is hilarious. The Redskins claim it's a fake account, but either way it's hilarious

dcmissle · Sep 2, 2015

Awesome. She fessed up. Can't wait for local sports talk radio tomorrow.

lambeau · Sep 2, 2015

Sad story. Drafted Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman, drank his way out of both jobs.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12014699/scot-mccloughan-nfl-best-talent-scout-self-employed-living-farm

soxfan121 · Sep 2, 2015

lambeau said:
Sad story. Drafted Frank Gore, Patrick Willis, Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman, drank his way out of both jobs.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12014699/scot-mccloughan-nfl-best-talent-scout-self-employed-living-farm

Well, now we know why.

Van Everyman · Sep 2, 2015

I think it's far more depressing that the only GM job a guy of his caliber could get was for Snyder.

I think I'd prefer the drunk tank in Ferndale.

LondonSox · Sep 3, 2015

Oh this could be entertaining today.

The best Tweet I saw overnight was (paraphrasing), your move Jets the Redskins are running away with this thing.

86spike · Sep 3, 2015

LondonSox said:
Oh this could be entertaining today.

The best Tweet I saw overnight was (paraphrasing), your move Jets the Redskins are running away with this thing.

My boss is a life long Skins fan.

This morning his comment was "No matter how bad it got I could always say "at least we're not as dysfunctional as the Jets"... now I don't think I even have that!"

Super Nomario · Sep 3, 2015

86spike said:
My boss is a life long Skins fan.

This morning his comment was "No matter how bad it got I could always say "at least we're not as dysfunctional as the Jets"... now I don't think I even have that!"

The Browns ... he's still got the Browns.

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) · Sep 3, 2015

Super Nomario said:
The Browns ... he's still got the Browns.

Maybe it's just me but the Browns dysfunction gives me more of a just sad vibe while the Redskins/Jets give a more hilariously deserved vibe. Maybe I just think that the good people of Ohio deserve better.

loshjott · Sep 3, 2015

That actually makes a fair amount of sense. Who uses will call at a sporting event?

soxfan121 · Sep 3, 2015

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
Maybe it's just me but the Browns dysfunction gives me more of a just sad vibe while the Redskins/Jets give a more hilariously deserved vibe. Maybe I just think that the good people of Ohio deserve better.

I know you're just using the phrase, but having lived in Ohio, I can tell you those people suck as much as people everywhere.

2015 Washington Football: RGIIIrd String

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