2017 Celtics Offseason: News and General Discussion

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
24,742
Carmelo doesn't sound like the craziest idea to me if Hayward chooses to play elsewhere. The dropoff from Hayward to the next best free agent is enormous(not counting Durant). I'd rather just take Melo into my cap space for a year rather than sign a Rudy Gay or Danilo Gallinari for multiple years. Don't love the Melo fit either, but NY would probably just give him to you. I'd want him to decline his player option for 2018-19 to take him tho.
Agreed. The big issue with Carmelo at this point is he's a 2-3 option who thinks he is still an alpha. He can still score, still create, and give you useful minutes. So, if you change his environment, get good coaching and a legit organization around him, perhaps give him a sniff of actually winning maybe he buys in. And if not, you've preserved your space for next year (agree on the player option, though may need to pay some for him to decline).

Definitely not my first choice, and I'm not super optimistic it works, but I get why you might try as a fallback
 

Kid T

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
793
San Francisco
Agreed. The big issue with Carmelo at this point is he's a 2-3 option who thinks he is still an alpha. He can still score, still create, and give you useful minutes. So, if you change his environment, get good coaching and a legit organization around him, perhaps give him a sniff of actually winning maybe he buys in. And if not, you've preserved your space for next year (agree on the player option, though may need to pay some for him to decline).

Definitely not my first choice, and I'm not super optimistic it works, but I get why you might try as a fallback
Not only that, he's a ball hog that kills ball movement and would stunt the growth/development of other players. IMO at best he's a (very) expensive scorer for the second unit.

If DA can't sign Hayward, plan B might be to sign an Amir deal or two (high, non guaranteed salary) that might be useful for trades next year.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
5,459
Carmelo is signed for one more year with a player option for 2018-19, so relatively small commitment. If nothing else pans out and Stevens is on board, I'm good with it.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,911
Santa Monica
How about driving the price up on Otto Porter for our friends in DC

If Hayward moves on elsewhere, look at offering 2-3yr deal to Millsap. He seems like a high character guy, that may be a good influence on all the youngsters.

After all the contenders have spent up their cap money, look for a big guy on the cheap:
James Johnson
Ilyasova
Patrick Patterson
Dedmon
Gasol
 
Last edited:

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,314
Carmelo is signed for one more year with a player option for 2018-19, so relatively small commitment. If nothing else pans out and Stevens is on board, I'm good with it.
Woj tweeted last night Carmelo willing to waive his no-trade clause for Houston and Cleveland
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
19,254
How about driving the price up on Otto Porter for our friends in DC

If Hayward moves on elsewhere, look at offering 2-3yr deal to Millsap. He seems like a high character guy, that may be a good influence on all the youngsters.

After all the contenders have spent up their cap money, look for a big guy on the cheap:
James Johnson
Ilyasova
Patrick Patterson
Dedmon
Gasol
Porter and Millsap have signed since this post. There are nearly 100 FA who played in the NBA last season and not nearly enough money to get each what they were hoping. I do expect Ainge to do what Ainge does in signing a deep rotation guy #8-11 on the cheap as he's done many times once the market shakes out for these guys.

Of that list, Ainge hasn't shown much interest in Ilyasova (who is severely overrated imo), or in Dedmon who I pleaded for him to nab at the minimum when Orlando released him mid-season two years ago. Johnson loves Riley and has said he's willing to wait to re-sign with the Heat to allow them the opportunity to utilize their cap space. Gasol opt-ed out of his 2018 option for the purpose of doing the same with the Spurs in allowing them additional cap space then sign a longer term deal with the Spurs. The one guy to keep an eye on is Patterson now that the Raptors signed Ibaka to his 3-year deal......this is a guy who could get lost in the shuffle and be the guy on your list who somebody acquires on a nice short deal. I can see Ainge doing an Amir Johnson-like contract, one-year $11m with a team option if nobody steps up with an offer. This will give Ainge the flexibility to use this expiring contract as part of a trade thus replacing that of Johnson and Zeller's.
 

amfox1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2003
5,469
The back of your computer
Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 46m46 minutes ago
Adrian Wojnarowski Retweeted Adrian Wojnarowski

Sources: Milwaukee's been trying to shed contracts to create space. Bucks need to make moves to get into position to sign significant FA's.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 50m50 minutes ago
Free agent guard Derrick Rose is meeting with Milwaukee Bucks officials today, league sources tell ESPN.

Wouldn't mind if BOS got one of MIL's PFs if Hayward doesn't sign with BOS.
 

finnVT

superspreadsheeter
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,004
Which one? Teletovic/Henson/Hawes are all pretty uninspiring to me, and I can't see them moving Parker or Thon. I'd be more interested if they decided they had too many swing guard/SF types, with Giannis/Brogdon/Snell/Middleton all in the mix for them. Middleton seems like the only possible odd man out there (obviously not Giannis, Brogdon is young/cheap, they just re-signed Snell), and would be a great upgrade from AB.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
21,385
Porter and Millsap have signed since this post.
Not that it matters to this thread but I don't think Porter has signed yet. Reports are he's meetings with Nets today.

I hope the Nets sign him. Porter is going to be a much different player without Beal and Wall creating his shots for him.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
14,302
That contract Millsap just signed would have been ideal for Boston. Going from Amir to Millsap would have been a huge upgrade and addressed the teams biggest weaknesses. He only got a two-year commitment plus a team option, that would have been perfect.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,386
Not that it matters to this thread but I don't think Porter has signed yet. Reports are he's meetings with Nets today.

I hope the Nets sign him. Porter is going to be a much different player without Beal and Wall creating his shots for him.

Nets getting Russell and Porter on their squad would actually give their fans something to watch and hang their hopes on. Will be quite the turnaround for them even though it will likely have minimal impact on the W-L columns
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
21,385
That contract Millsap just signed would have been ideal for Boston. Going from Amir to Millsap would have been a huge upgrade and addressed the teams biggest weaknesses. He only got a two-year commitment plus a team option, that would have been perfect.
From the dimly lit cave where I live, Huywurd is the form of the signing but Milsap on a 2-year deal with a team option would have been nice. Can't blame Cs for wanting to hear from Gordo first though.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,228
Which one? Teletovic/Henson/Hawes are all pretty uninspiring to me, and I can't see them moving Parker or Thon. I'd be more interested if they decided they had too many swing guard/SF types, with Giannis/Brogdon/Snell/Middleton all in the mix for them. Middleton seems like the only possible odd man out there (obviously not Giannis, Brogdon is young/cheap, they just re-signed Snell), and would be a great upgrade from AB.
I can't see them moving Middleton. They are an entirely different team with him on the court. Moving him would be counterproductive unless the big name FA they are signing is Gordon Hayward.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
39,891
Washington has been adamant that they will match any offer, and given their situation they don't really have much of a choice if they want to stay relevant. Not a good look to let him go for nothing while they're trying to get Wall to sign an extension.
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
12,507
Washington has been adamant that they will match any offer, and given their situation they don't really have much of a choice if they want to stay relevant. Not a good look to let him go for nothing while they're trying to get Wall to sign an extension.
Their cap situation is a nightmare once they match, but I agree that they don't have a choice. Wall was tossing some shade his way during the PG recruitment, so I'm not sure Porter moves the needle much at this point.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
19,031
So, this can go in a new thread, but for now I figure since it's speculative I'll post it here.
IF we sign Hayward, the team is remarkably deep everywhere but C. Olynyk is obviously renounced in this situation. We'll likely play small a lot, but even then counting on ZIzic and Theis to be the only two other bigs on the roster is probably not great,,, therefore....
It's time to start looking for where the other rotation big comes from.

OPTION 1:
Free Agents,
Here's the list of guys who hypothetically could come here for the room exception (4.3M or so) or vet min.
Roy Hibbert
Aron Baynes
Brandon Bass
Mo Speights
Thomas Robinson
Zach Randolph(? maybe a stretch)
David Lee
Willie Reed
Andrew Bogut
Donatas Motiejunas
Nick Collison
David Lee
Jeff Withey
Jared Sullinger
Festus Ezeli

Not a great list, but a few of those guys could contribute.

OPTION 2:
TRADE
This is wide open, names that are being shopped are mostly salary dumps, which we can't do, but there may be someone who opens up in a Smart or Bradley deal.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
537
Brooklyn by way of Orono
From the dimly lit cave where I live, Huywurd is the form of the signing but Milsap on a 2-year deal with a team option would have been nice. Can't blame Cs for wanting to hear from Gordo first though.
It is also dim in my basement but this is pretty much where I'm at (including understanding the need to wait on GH). I would rather have had Millsap for 2yrs plus a team option than Blake on max.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
21,385
Their cap situation is a nightmare once they match, but I agree that they don't have a choice. Wall was tossing some shade his way during the PG recruitment, so I'm not sure Porter moves the needle much at this point.
Yes, the 'Zards have to sign Porter because they are over the cap and if they don't sign Porter they can't replace him with pretty much anyone.

Of course they are over the cap because last summer they gave the max to Bradley Beal (is he the worst max player in the NBA? Some thought so before the start of playoffs); signed Mahinmi for 4/ $64MM, Andrew Nicholson 4/$26MM (traded along with 1st round pick for Bogdanovic), and Jason Smiwth (30 year old) for 3/$16MM. None of whom made any important contributions in the playoff series. Mahinmi was a particularly weird signing since they had Gortat at $13M, so they are paying $29M to the center position.

And thus, they have 4 players - Beal ($23.7MM), Wall ($18+MM, which is a bargain), and Gortat + Mahinmi - accounting for over $71MM, or over 70% of the cap.

The only 4 players on one team that is a comparatively worse use of 70% of cap space is PDX (Lillard = $26.2MM, McCollum = $24.0MM, Crabbe = $19.3MM and Turner = $17.1MM, or approximately $86MM in total). But the Blazers have more young talent than WAS.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,511
So, this can go in a new thread, but for now I figure since it's speculative I'll post it here.
IF we sign Hayward, the team is remarkably deep everywhere but C. Olynyk is obviously renounced in this situation. We'll likely play small a lot, but even then counting on ZIzic and Theis to be the only two other bigs on the roster is probably not great,,, therefore....
It's time to start looking for where the other rotation big comes from.
I was thinking about this today. If the Celtics are able to sign Hayward, the thinking has been that they have to move Crowder. If instead they move Bradley and think of Hayward as more of a 2 guard, there's an avenue to keep Olynyk if they could sign him to a deal they like.

If they get Yabusele to stay overseas one more year(or move Rozier), and they moved Bradley for a future pick to clear salary cap space, they'd be able to fit Olynyks' cap hold of 7.7M just by waiving Mickey and possibly giving away Demetrius Jackson.

Then they could sign Olynyk.

Would give them a nine man rotation of

Zizic
Horford
Crowder
Hayward
Isaiah

Olynyk
Tatum
Jaylen
Smart
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
29,156
Melrose, MA
Olynyk is gone if Hayward comes. To keep him, the Celtics would have to renounce his rights and then sign him as a UFA - and with what money would they do that?

Also, Zizic won't be starting.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
19,031
Olynyk is gone if Hayward comes. To keep him, the Celtics would have to renounce his rights and then sign him as a UFA - and with what money would they do that?

Also, Zizic won't be starting.
I think what he was saying is clear an extra 7.7 by trading Bradley before you sign Hayward so that you don't have to renounce Olynyk in order to get Hayward.
I don't think the math works though, probably need to move Bradley and Smart, unlikely to be worth it to keep Olynyk.
 

finnVT

superspreadsheeter
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2002
2,004
You can do it if you trade AB, cut Mickey, and trade DJackson for nothing (actually, even cutting him is probably doable). If you cut those last two, you have DJackson's 650k guarantee and two 815k cap holds on the books, and are 29.4m under. Presuming one of those cap holds goes away when you sign Hayward, you should be able to offer him a max deal without renouncing KO if you wanted to go this route. I'm not really sure I'd pick one year of KO over one year of AB, though, especially given the rest of the roster makeup. (Although this scenario does presume Yabusele getting stashed again, so maybe you need that extra depth there).

edit: I perpetually forget about Theis. They haven't announced contract terms for him, right? Depending on where he comes in, that could change the numbers substantially (or at least, enough).
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,511
Olynyk is gone if Hayward comes. To keep him, the Celtics would have to renounce his rights and then sign him as a UFA - and with what money would they do that?

Also, Zizic won't be starting.
It's in the post, yeah?

Also, as currently constituted, I believe Zizic starts.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,511
You can do it if you trade AB, cut Mickey, and trade DJackson for nothing (actually, even cutting him is probably doable). If you cut those last two, you have DJackson's 650k guarantee and two 815k cap holds on the books, and are 29.4m under. Presuming one of those cap holds goes away when you sign Hayward, you should be able to offer him a max deal without renouncing KO if you wanted to go this route. I'm not really sure I'd pick one year of KO over one year of AB, though, especially given the rest of the roster makeup. (Although this scenario does presume Yabusele getting stashed again, so maybe you need that extra depth there).

edit: I perpetually forget about Theis. They haven't announced contract terms for him, right? Depending on where he comes in, that could change the numbers substantially (or at least, enough).
It wouldn't have to be one year of Olynyk. Once you fit Hayward in with Olynyks' cap hold, you can go over the cap and sign Olynyk long term. I'd only do this if I could agree with Olynyk on a deal. I don't think there is a big offer out there for him, so I think you could get him on a reasonable deal.

I think the roster makeup if they get Hayward would have much more of a need for Olynyk over Bradley. Their only big on the current roster who's played a minute in the league would be Horford. While you'd have Hayward, Jaylen, Jae, Tatum and some Smart minutes for the wing spots.
 

JakeRae

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
6,641
New York, NY
You can do it if you trade AB, cut Mickey, and trade DJackson for nothing (actually, even cutting him is probably doable). If you cut those last two, you have DJackson's 650k guarantee and two 815k cap holds on the books, and are 29.4m under. Presuming one of those cap holds goes away when you sign Hayward, you should be able to offer him a max deal without renouncing KO if you wanted to go this route. I'm not really sure I'd pick one year of KO over one year of AB, though, especially given the rest of the roster makeup. (Although this scenario does presume Yabusele getting stashed again, so maybe you need that extra depth there).

edit: I perpetually forget about Theis. They haven't announced contract terms for him, right? Depending on where he comes in, that could change the numbers substantially (or at least, enough).
Cutting Jackson costs more against the cap than keeping him. He makes less than his guarantee plus a minimum hold and there is pretty much no scenario where they are clearing cap space and have enough players signed to mean that cutting him doesn't create an extra minimum hold.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,511
Did you watch the summer league game? Based on that initial impression I'd say we're in big trouble if Zizic gets starter minutes. I think we're probably looking more at something like Horford Crowder Brown/Hayward Bradley IT.
Not worried about one summer league game at all. What do you consider "starter minutes". Amir started 77 regular season games last year. He averaged 20 minutes a game. I see Zizic taking that role.

I feel like we've heard enough reports from Horfords camp that he doesn't want to play center, that I'd be surprised if they didn't tell him when signing him last year that he wouldn't play much center. It's one thing to play him there a lot in the playoffs. I suspect he'd be pissed off if he's rolling out there at the 5 all season long.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
10,735
Nashua, NH
Woj reporting that Gallo is strongly leaning towards the Clippers, so it seems like if it isn't Hayward it might be nobody of consequence.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
7,166
Maybe it's a given he's staying in San Antonio once they figure the team salaries out, but if they miss out on Hayward I wonder if they'd take a look at Pau on a 1 or 2 year deal. He's recently developed a 3 point shot and is still a solid rebounder and rim protector. There aren't too many other options you'd want to spend money on besides Gordon.
 

Zereck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
84
Not worried about one summer league game at all. What do you consider "starter minutes". Amir started 77 regular season games last year. He averaged 20 minutes a game. I see Zizic taking that role.

I feel like we've heard enough reports from Horfords camp that he doesn't want to play center, that I'd be surprised if they didn't tell him when signing him last year that he wouldn't play much center. It's one thing to play him there a lot in the playoffs. I suspect he'd be pissed off if he's rolling out there at the 5 all season long.[/QUOT
Not worried about one summer league game at all. What do you consider "starter minutes". Amir started 77 regular season games last year. He averaged 20 minutes a game. I see Zizic taking that role.

I feel like we've heard enough reports from Horfords camp that he doesn't want to play center, that I'd be surprised if they didn't tell him when signing him last year that he wouldn't play much center. It's one thing to play him there a lot in the playoffs. I suspect he'd be pissed off if he's rolling out there at the 5 all season long.
Zizic isn't ready to start. Hopefully it's more conditioning than athleticism, but he's not ready to be in the starting lineup this season. He's skilled, but he's not strong enough or quick enough right now (yes, even compared to Amir).
 

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
1,996
Honolulu HI
That contract Millsap just signed would have been ideal for Boston. Going from Amir to Millsap would have been a huge upgrade and addressed the teams biggest weaknesses. He only got a two-year commitment plus a team option, that would have been perfect.
Yeah, I really don't understand why Danny wasn't interested. I mean, sure he prefers GH but it's not as if you can't approach multiple top tier free agents at the same time. Milsap would have known that he was the Cs second choice but if he's smart he would have waited just the same. The Boston situation is far better than what Denver can offer. Also not sure why Ainge isn't meeting with Gallinari. Gallinari was pretty awesome in the second half last year and would be a great fallback option if GH doesn't come through. I can only assume Ainge isn't interested in either which is kind of surprising/disappointing...
As I understand it, this is Ainge's last real chance to make a splash in free agency for a while. Considering this, I'm not seeing why he has put all his eggs in the GH basket....
 

southshoresoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,249
Canton MA
Zizic isn't ready to start. Hopefully it's more conditioning than athleticism, but he's not ready to be in the starting lineup this season. He's skilled, but he's not strong enough or quick enough right now (yes, even compared to Amir).
He is most certainly strong enough. He looked more rigid then I remember seeing in his Euro games. Hopefully that was more conditioning than anything else.
 

southshoresoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,249
Canton MA
Yeah, I really don't understand why Danny wasn't interested. I mean, sure he prefers GH but it's not as if you can't approach multiple top tier free agents at the same time. Milsap would have known that he was the Cs second choice but if he's smart he would have waited just the same. The Boston situation is far better than what Denver can offer. Also not sure why Ainge isn't meeting with Gallinari. Gallinari was pretty awesome in the second half last year and would be a great fallback option if GH doesn't come through. I can only assume Ainge isn't interested in either which is kind of surprising/disappointing...
As I understand it, this is Ainge's last real chance to make a splash in free agency for a while. Considering this, I'm not seeing why he has put all his eggs in the GH basket....
Probably the same reason he refused to make a deal before signing GH into the cap space...they know he's signing. Every move they have and haven't made indicates this.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
13,678
Somewhere
Of that list, Ainge hasn't shown much interest in Ilyasova (who is severely overrated imo), or in Dedmon who I pleaded for him to nab at the minimum when Orlando released him mid-season two years ago.
Who is overrating him? He's been passed around the league like a wet blunt.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,911
Santa Monica
First game and Utah's high altitude, but Zizic doesn't look the part of an NBA starter. Then again he's very young and Brad can make good stuff happen with new players.

Are the Celts allowed to bring Zeller back on a vet min. deal? Knows the system, good attitude and I actually think he has the stroke to eventually hit the top of the key 3 consistently.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,228
Zizic is going to struggle this year like any rookie big. Not sure what people were expecting. His defense has a loooooooooooong way to go.