I can't even express how much I want Malouda to score in this game and make it an even bigger cluster.
2017 Gold Cup: Our B team is better than your B team
- Thread starter AusTexSoxFan
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I am super confused. Was there a story before tonite? Malouda has a ton of caps for France. Not even a question.
French Guiana sucks anyway so what will people care? Or this was a threat prior to game?
French Guiana sucks anyway so what will people care? Or this was a threat prior to game?
French Guiana isn't a FIFA member, so he has played for them in the Caribbean Cup. They are, however, a CONCACAF member and were planning on playing him. Before their first game, a story came out that this tournament was using FIFA rules to determine eligibility, so Malouda was not eligible, and he didn't play. But now he's playing, so basically they are daring CONCACAF to DQ them.
Ohhhh. Interesting. Been moving so missed a lot.
And hell ya I hope he scores too then.
If United takes Kei off the Revs' hands, that will be pretty solid evidence of the Greater Fool Theorum.
Malouda looked to be the best player on the field tonight, I watched the 2nd half while washing up from dinner and there's no question he's a difference maker. They just took a point from a Hex team that's got an outside chance at the WCF if Panama slips a bit. Definitely think the controversy will continue.
At 76', the Honduran striker tried to Honduras and ended up drawing a yellow for simulation in the box, but it looked like more of a call on rep than on the facts. The guy got there first, nudged the ball aside, appeared to step over a sliding goalie, looked for contact, got the tiniest bit, and then made a meal of it and fell over. Were it not Honduras, I'd normally think a no-call to be the wisest decision there - yeah, you were an asshole about it, but you were also fouled juuuuuuust the slightest amount.
At 76', the Honduran striker tried to Honduras and ended up drawing a yellow for simulation in the box, but it looked like more of a call on rep than on the facts. The guy got there first, nudged the ball aside, appeared to step over a sliding goalie, looked for contact, got the tiniest bit, and then made a meal of it and fell over. Were it not Honduras, I'd normally think a no-call to be the wisest decision there - yeah, you were an asshole about it, but you were also fouled juuuuuuust the slightest amount.
I'll be in the house for this one tonight. Gonna make a last minute grab for endzone tickets. Forza USA or something.
That was some crazy shit with Malouda. Was in the mixed zone after Costa Rica-Canada and saw him coming back from initial warm-ups. Asked: "Are you playing?" Just smiled and gave a thumbs up. I hadn't seen the Honduras-FG teamsheet so I didn't know he was suiting up. Dude owned it last night. What a bizarre game. Honduras fans hate Pinto.
Still no comcast since they are the worst ever and I decided to venture to the bar to watch this riveting Martinique v USA B match.
Anyone else tuning in?
Anyone else tuning in?
Morris -- Agudelo
Zardes -- Acosta -- Roldan -- Arriola
Morrow -- Hedges -- Gonzalez -- Lichaj
Guzan
Zardes -- Acosta -- Roldan -- Arriola
Morrow -- Hedges -- Gonzalez -- Lichaj
Guzan
Guzan, Gonzalez, and Acosta are the only repeat starters.
Panama beat Nicaragua 2-1 earlier today, which is good for the US because winning the group could come down to GD.
Not a very convincing win. The midfield is still a work in progress. The defense seems to be missing an edge. Guzan let in a very soft goal.
I liked Agudelo.
I liked Agudelo.
You realize the difference between him and our #2 keeper (as long as Howard is injured), right? Be careful what you wish for.
I'm not thrilled by him. At the bar, I shouted "that's why you aren't in the EPL anymore!" after that facepalm-inducing first one. But let's our lack of alternatives when we talk about sticking with the devil we know. Dude spent 9 years in the PL, half as a starter... at least he knows what he should be doing out there, even if he can't always do it.
I'm also not convinced that we have better non-Howard options to Guzan at this very moment. Guzan's return to MLS will make comparing him to alternatives easy, though.
We need some of the younger GKs to grow up fast because there just hasn't been much high end talent born in the decade after Guzan (1984-1994). That's a big gap to bridge.
We need some of the younger GKs to grow up fast because there just hasn't been much high end talent born in the decade after Guzan (1984-1994). That's a big gap to bridge.
You guys are overthinking this. Just give someone else a chance, doesn't really matter who. Young guys are going to have to step up. Guzan is a known quantity, and a bad one. I'd much rather have Howard than Guzan in there if we're going the old bald guy route.
Regarding the game, I was fairly impressed with the US attack in the second half. Morris, Agudelo, and Arriola were active. Zardes made a really nice layoff to Morris for the second. I wish he would cut in a bit earlier - a few times he was out by the touchline with the ball on the weakside. Morris looks like a tank and I thought he would be plodding, but the dude has impressive burst. A homeless man's Rooney if you will. The MF was pretty disorganized and bad. Martinique were able to possess and break through all over the field with professional fouling our best strategy.
Regarding the game, I was fairly impressed with the US attack in the second half. Morris, Agudelo, and Arriola were active. Zardes made a really nice layoff to Morris for the second. I wish he would cut in a bit earlier - a few times he was out by the touchline with the ball on the weakside. Morris looks like a tank and I thought he would be plodding, but the dude has impressive burst. A homeless man's Rooney if you will. The MF was pretty disorganized and bad. Martinique were able to possess and break through all over the field with professional fouling our best strategy.
You can't just throw anyone out there as keeper. I think people are giving Guzan too much criticism. The first goal was totally his fault.The second was on the defense: they were too porous and he saved their asses with a good save, and then they let up and gave up a pretty fluke goal. Guzan also had a few other saves during the spell late in the first half when the team was floundering.
Also, I think calling this the B team flatters too much. This is the C team and and we'll see the B team when roster changes are made before the knockout phase
Also, I think calling this the B team flatters too much. This is the C team and and we'll see the B team when roster changes are made before the knockout phase
Given that this competition doesn't actually matter, I have no problems with giving youth a chance. But the idea Guzan should be ousted and "young guys" given a chance is sorta undermined by TB's comment about the midfield - which is where young guys are being given a chance. And with respect to TB, I'm choosing to interpret his "work in progress" as "these guys aren't playing well enough".
The problem remains the shallow talent pool; the lack of GK prospects is getting to be a real issue, given the age of the only acceptable options (Howard & Guzan). Ditto the midfield, where Bradley still gets all the run he can handle despite fans hating his face.
Credit to Arena, I suppose, for proving there's just not enough talent by calling up the MLS pretenders who aren't good enough. And if he were to go to Horvath, or whomever, instead of Guzan, I wouldn't begrudge him that either. Because he has no control over whether there are good enough players in the pool. And there are not. Which is being proven position-by-position and game-after-game.
Which is why the struggle to break down Panama and the second half shoot out against Martinque are good and productive for the USMNT overall. If we want to have a deep, flexible pool, we need a large number of players that have both been in camps with the current manager and have been in a few classic CONCACAF scraps. It would be nice to win this competition, but the real goal is maxing out the number of matches this group gets to play. There's no replicating this environment for this current roster.
Give me a break. If JK were the coach, he would be getting roasted for this "result" yet Arena gets a free pass because of the "this is a weaker team" card. It shouldn't matter if it's a B or C team. Many of those players last night were MLS Flavors of the Week who many were clamoring for full time NT roles. Hedges was MLS defender of the year and he got torched TWICE by semi pro players!
Yet those same players were at home and had trouble beating a semi pro team? Here the the roster and club of the team we beat yesterday.
Antoine Jean-Baptiste: Luçon (sixth tier French league)
Sebastien Cretinoir: Golden Lion (sixth tier French league)
Johan Audel: Beitar (Jerusalem Israeli premier league)
Daniel Herelle: Golden Lion (sixth tier French league)
Stéphane Abaul: Club Franciscain (Martinique amateur)
Kévin Parsemain: Golden Lion (sixth tier French league)
Kévin Olimpa: Platanias FC (Greek super league)
Nicolas Zaire: Club Franciscain (Martinique amateur)
Karl Vitulin: AS Samaritaine (Martinique amateur)
Jordy Delem: Seattle Sounders FC 2 (was on the team, cut but still going to give it to them)
Yoann Arquin: Mansfield Town FC (ENG League 2)
We should have wiped the floor against this team.
Wasn't one of the reasons that Arena was hired was because he supposedly could get more out of the MLS -based players because he was so familiar with them and would put them in positions to succeed on the international level? That's all bullshit because the US player pool is terrible because so few of our players are playing competitively abroad and fighting for their spots each day.
What I see from this Gold Cup MLS squad is that most of these domestic players have no sense of urgency and think they can just get a start because they have no one else to compete with for that spot.
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Scores from the 2015 Gold Cup, when we had most of our best players, including Dempsey, Bradley, Brooks, Yedlin, Johnson, Altidore (Howard was on sabbatical):
2-1 w over Honduras (Dempsey scored twice)
1-0 w over Haiti (Dempsey scored)
1-1 d vs Panama (Bradley scored)
6-0 w over Cuba (a bunch of players scored on a terrible team)
1-2 loss to Jamaica (Bradley scored a really crap goal out of a scrum)
Arena is getting similar results with none of those players. He understands that the main goal of the group phase this turn is to get players into the system and into the CONCACAF environment, so maybe a couple can make a roster for a WCQ.
Edit: Haiti had 5 USL/NASL players, an NPSL(!) player, guys playing in India, Malaysia, and assorted lower divisions in Europe. And US won 1-0 with basically our best roster sans Howard. They were outplayed for long stretches of every game except for Cuba. By Elo rating Martinique (85) and Haiti (88 in July 2015) were about the same
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This is the essence of our problems, and why Michael Bradley is still our first option in the midfield. The US simply doesn't have a good pool of midfielders to draw on.
I am so fucking sick of this argument.
By the time an American is 18 or 19 years old and ready to sign with an MLS team, they are already years behind their counterparts in Europe who have been playing professionally since they were 15 or 16. That is the problem. In Europe and South America kids sacrifice their education to become pro football players very young.
Pulisic is not a star because he signed with Dortmund. He is a star because he was good enough to sign with them as a 16 year old. Sending 22-26 year old MLS players to Europe isn't going to do much.
I know people who literally said that Jordan Morris was forfeiting a chance to be as good as Neymar by opting for MLS instead of Werden Bremen. Morris chose to spend years studying in high school and then Stanford instead of focusing full time of football, and thus doesn't have the skill of comparable foreign players. He probably would not have been starting at relegation-threatened Bremen.
If we want to build better American players, we have to start a lot earlier in the process than MLS.
I think it goes further than this.
In the 2015 GC, Klinsmann did poorly with the A team. Better players with more international experience and more familiarity with each other. Most importantly, though, the 2015 GC was four years into Klinsmann's tenure. Klinsmann had a very long honeymoon and widespread criticism didn't truly intensify until after the WC.
I don't buy the double standard at this point.
That being said, Arena doesn't deserve as long a honeymoon as Klinsmann because his familiarity with the pool and his ability to get up to speed quickly were part of the rationale for his hire. There's been little to nothing in the last two games that reflects well on Arena or the vast majority of the players.
Arena will be judged ultimately on WCQ and the WC itself, so it will be argued that if we find a few B team types ready to help the first team, the GC can be termed a success. But unless we start playing better, that won't sit well with me. I get that throwing a bunch of B team players together can be challenging because (a) by and large they aren't as good - that's why they're on the B team and (b) gelling/team chemistry really are big issues, but we need to be doing better against teams like Martinique.
I agree with @Statman that the lack of urgency is a problem. Regardless of their competition for spots in MLS (and many of them, in fact, do have competition), they know they certainly can't take a spot on the USMNT for granted. There needs to be more fire. Is being disjointed at least somewhat understandable, if disappointing? I say yes. Is a lack of urgency? No excuse.
Note: I see that Mexico drew with Jamaica 0-0 yesterday. I assume the Mexican press is taking this calmly.
CONCACAF has weighed in on L'Affaire de Florent Malouda
Honduras now has three points instead of one, which sets up an interesting match against Canada. The Canadians have been knocked out of WCQ at the semifinal stage in 2018 and, famously, in 2014 when they went to San Pedro Sula needing a draw and lost 8-1.
- French Guiana forfeits the Honduras game, 3-0
- French Guiana has been fined
- Malouda has been suspended for the rest of the tournament
Honduras now has three points instead of one, which sets up an interesting match against Canada. The Canadians have been knocked out of WCQ at the semifinal stage in 2018 and, famously, in 2014 when they went to San Pedro Sula needing a draw and lost 8-1.
I watched some of that Mexico-Jamaica game and it was utterly putrid. Jamaica had 2 lines of 4 stacked right in front of the box and Mexico did OK trying to break it down, but obviously lacked the quality to put one away. Jamaica didn't even try to keep possession on the few chances they had, but rather tried to hit on the counter. I couldn't watch more than 15-20 minutes. Let's hope the knockout round brings some more aesthetics.
It's funny. On the one hand, expectations should have been extremely low coming into this tournament. On the other, it's fucking Jamaica. So yeah, I'm sure the press is in full freak out mode.
I love that they suspended Malouda for the rest of the tournament. He already wasn't eligible, but I guess they really mean it this time!