Fair point, but I completely disagree.I know it's silly from an outside observer, but it's a work place. People get pissed at any job when the good co-workers/ friend leave or are on the way out over money while they bring in a new guy that can't do the job.
And Branch, who's fallen of a cliff. Collins has been awful, so he wasn't the answer at 13 million a year. Hightower just looks hobbled and afraid of contact, but that has to be a long-term concern given age and history.Harmon was paid too
Agreed. It sounds so douchey to say that about a guy, but I think it's true. Which made me think - for every Hogan and Gillislee that you snatch away from a bad team, there are the other players that make up the elements of what constitutes poor play and poor results for that team. AKA, the guys that actually suck and thus contribute to what makes their teams suck. Gilmore's starting to feel like that player that wasn't "good talent surrounded by bad talent," but the actual bad talent that lessened the potential of good talent.I'm not sure Gilmore is smart enough to play for the NEP
"New players" is not the issue. They integrate new players all the time.Where are the DBs we can pick up in week 5 for everyone saying to get new players? And I thought "new players" were the issue here?
Yeah, agreed. Gilmore made the glaring error today. He hasn't been good, and the contract puts a glaring target on him. But its been pretty much hot garbage everywhere for a month. Replace Gilmore with an in his prime Revis and this would still have been a bad defense. 29 for 140 against on the ground today and they continue to have no idea how to defend any sort of option or misdirection plays.Has Gilmore made the pass rush bad, Alan Branch disappear, the linebacker play awful, Rowe tackle like a child, Chung and McCourty lose one on one battles, and Butler get burned repeatedly? There are a lot of issues that go beyond Gilmore.
Butler's been a bigger disappointment to me than Gilmore. Even that INT was a gigantic bit of luck, he left his man wide open.
When guys are wide open because he's missing assignments, then yes he is making guys worse. The front 7 needs time to get to the QB, at the end of the half Cam was able to just drop back and throw immediately to any one of the wide open receivers.Has Gilmore made the pass rush bad, Alan Branch disappear, the linebacker play awful, Rowe tackle like a child, Chung and McCourty lose one on one battles, and Butler get burned repeatedly? There are a lot of issues that go beyond Gilmore.
Butler's been a bigger disappointment to me than Gilmore. Even that INT was a gigantic bit of luck, he left his man wide open.
Ryan, Sheard, Long, and Nink. Replaced by Gilmore, Guy, Butler, and Wise. Everyone else is the same (Flowers, Brown, Branch, Hightower, Van Noy, M Butler, McCourty, Harmon, Rowe, and Chung).So they lost Logan Ryan and now the defense is shit? I don’t buy it - clearly have the talent and have just played awful. Clean it up, work on communication and figure it out. You’d think they brought in a whole new defense reading this thread - they didn’t and we know they can get it done.
The team has made a huge deal out of how important Hightower has been over the past couple of years setting the defense, and he has not been out there in that role since he went down early in the KC game. Having High back in his customary role may help.Ryan, Sheard, Long, and Nink. Replaced by Gilmore, Guy, Butler, and Wise. Everyone else is the same (Flowers, Brown, Branch, Hightower, Van Noy, M Butler, McCourty, Harmon, Rowe, and Chung).
There's no freaking way that those four replacements turn the #1 scoring defense in the NFL into the worst defense of all time.
There's more going on here. I don't know whether that makes me optimistic or pessimistic that they can fix things.
Hightower misses games every year and they don't have these kinds of breakdowns. Moreover, I don't think Hightower has much to do with the secondary assignments we are seeing bungled.The team has made a huge deal out of how important Hightower has been over the past couple of years setting the defense, and he has not been out there in that role since he went down early in the KC game. Having High back in his customary role may help.
They completely shut down the run in the first half yesterday thoughI haven't had the availability to study every game, but I have watched them all. My takeaway about this defense is that all the bad starts with the fact that they can't stop the run. Too many 8, 9, 12, 14 yards runs. It means that they can't really set up "passing situations" because even 3rd and 8 is a makeable rushing first down.
It seems like the front 7 is having a lot of trouble maintaining any sort of gap discipline, including edge-settjng.
Do Your Job is not just a pithy bumper sticker; it's a key element to the success of this defensive scheme. In my mind, the emphasis in those three words is on YOUR not DO. If everyone does HIS job, and trusts the other guys to do theirs, there is less to worry about, less to try to cover for, less heroic play. Fill these gaps, and someone else will make the tackle. Go for the tackle instead and end up leaving a huge hole.
I think like most things, it's a combination of factors.Ryan, Sheard, Long, and Nink. Replaced by Gilmore, Guy, Butler, and Wise. Everyone else is the same (Flowers, Brown, Branch, Hightower, Van Noy, M Butler, McCourty, Harmon, Rowe, and Chung).
There's no freaking way that those four replacements turn the #1 scoring defense in the NFL into the worst defense of all time.
There's more going on here. I don't know whether that makes me optimistic or pessimistic that they can fix things.
Butler and Rowe were getting torched in man, as has McCourty at times. Gilmore has nothing to do with that. Branch isn't even getting snaps and he's been near Pro-Bowl caliber the past couple years.When guys are wide open because he's missing assignments, then yes he is making guys worse.
You're wrong. Gilmore got benched to start the second half yesterday (reported several times in today's Globe) but Rowe got hurt on the very first play of the second half so Gilmore had to go back in, just in time to play like shit and cost the Pats the game.Butler's been benched for poor play this season, not Gilmore.
No, but Van Noy/Roberts do. The Whitaker TD was the clearest example of a communication breakdown combined with a recognition/assignment problem. The problems at the back end are somewhat - a small amount - the fault of the linebackers, and their awful play. Hightower's (and Branch's) problems seem to be physical, not mental.Hightower misses games every year and they don't have these kinds of breakdowns. Moreover, I don't think Hightower has much to do with the secondary assignments we are seeing bungled.
The Panthers had the Patriots defenders in a tizzy reacting to motion and adjusting to their assignments accordingly. On the Whitaker TD, both McCourty and Gilmore followed McCaffrey. That's not on the linebackers - the play call is already in and communicated at that point - but rather the communication between the specific pass defenders who need to figure out who's got who based on the motion and communicate it. That broke down repeatedly yesterday, and seemed to involve only players in the secondary.No, but Van Noy/Roberts do. The Whitaker TD was the clearest example of a communication breakdown combined with a recognition/assignment problem. The problems at the back end are somewhat - a small amount - the fault of the linebackers, and their awful play.
It kind of seems like they want him to be the new Ninkovich; I'm not sure that's a great use of his skills.I know Hightower is being listed as DE now instead of LB, but what's been the difference in his on field role? Maybe moving him back to what he was doing last year is a good start.
Agreed, he needs to be in the middle of the field diagnosing plays and reacting. Van Noy is hit or miss and Roberts is too slow even if he hits. I mentioned this earlier this year, but I do wonder if part of the reason he was moved was to protect him from injuries, long-term. Maybe they think the closer to the line of scrimmage, the less impact on his shoulder?It kind of seems like they want him to be the new Ninkovich; I'm not sure that's a great use of his skills.
I think on the replay they clearly showed Butler leaving his man to run with the receiver running up the sideline who was Rowe's man.Who didn’t do their job on the Butler INT? The man was doubled while Funchess (might be wrong) was left wide open. Newton forced it anyway but the fact was that someone was trying to be a hero instead of fulfilling their responsibility. Butler left his man but was he supposed to?
Does anyone have a screenshot of what I’m talking about?
And Gilmore just sat there on the other side of the field, letting it all happen.I think on the replay they clearly showed Butler leaving his man to run with the receiver running up the sideline who was Rowe's man.
If he was cut before June 1 his dead money would be $22.5 million. If he was traded, the dead money would be $18 million.THIS ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, but ...
In general, what would the cap hit be if a freshly signed FA like Gilmore were traded during the first season with the team?
Seems like the obvious answer here is a kidnapping and face transplant operation with AJ Bouye.There goes that idea
Well he's killing the season, so it might well be justified to cut him.Per patscap, looks like $8MM immediately added to this years cap and a $14.4MM cap hit next year. $18MM signing bonus and $13MM of salary this year and next year fully guaranteed. They could cut him after '18 and only eat a $10.2MM dead money charge. Unless he commits first degree murder, he's going to be on the team for the next two years.
I like the Gilmore for Logan Ryan deal someone floated in the gamethread yesterday. But that's likely a non-starterWell he's killing the season, so it might well be justified to cut him.
Sure, just need to find the other $5-$8MM or so of other cuts you are going to do to get the cap savings needed to cut him. What are your thoughts on who else to cut?Well he's killing the season, so it might well be justified to cut him.
Doug Kyed pointed out yesterday -- and the beat guys were all over Gilmore, so they've heard something internally -- that the Patriots broke their mold and signed Gilmore w/o him taking a visit with the team.It's not going to happen, sadly. They paid too much money for a terrible player, so they're stuck with him. I'd love for him to be gone tomorrow, but it won't happen.
Adalius 2.0I agree. They aren't going to cut the guy that they evaluated as being worth $31MM in guarantees after a quarter of a season. He may lose playing time, but they aren't going to just decide "hey, this guy is useless"
Adalius Thomas at least contributed his first season here, albeit at a lower level than originally expected.Adalius 2.0
Reiss has you covered. Check out the 3rd picWho didn’t do their job on the Butler INT? The man was doubled while Funchess (might be wrong) was left wide open. Newton forced it anyway but the fact was that someone was trying to be a hero instead of fulfilling their responsibility. Butler left his man but was he supposed to?
Does anyone have a screenshot of what I’m talking about?
Louis Riddick and Ryan Clark seemed to think they can get it straightened out ... if there's buy-in from the players. They also suggested that they need one guy quarterbacking the d-backs; isn't McCourty thought to be the leader back there?This is worse. The problem is that defense is not glorified "kill the carrier", but instead is a highly coordinated act among all 11 players on the field, with each player having primary, secondary, and sometimes tertiary assignments. If someone is continually missing their assignments, then other players start missing theirs, and the effects snowball. Combine Gilmore's constantly missing his reads with what I believe may be subpar talent up front on the line, and you have the makings of a disaster.
Not clear this can be fixed in-season.
Players with four or more seasons have their base salaries guaranteed if they're on a roster Week 1, so cutting those guys isn't saving any money.Sure, just need to find the other $5-$8MM or so of other cuts you are going to do to get the cap savings needed to cut him. What are your thoughts on who else to cut?
I guess something like Allen, Branch, Gillislee would probably work as a realistic package of cuts. Of course, then there's little carryover cap space and $16MM of dead money heading into next season, so about $18-$20MM down against the cap vs. where the Pats are in a usual season. But Gilmore would be off the roster.