2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

Kliq

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How great would it be for Tacko to have a good game in real minutes in the city where he played college ball?
I'm still not totally over Tacko not being with the team on Monday to come in during garbage time of that Laker ass-kicking. It would have been amazing.
 

InstaFace

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I'm still not totally over Tacko not being with the team on Monday to come in during garbage time of that Laker ass-kicking. It would have been amazing.
Maybe "human victory cigar" isn't his highest-and-best use, and he's off spending time on training so that he can get to a higher and better use.
 

NomarsFool

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I don't understand the Romeo usage pattern. It seemed like he was getting some early substitution action for a bit there, and he seemed reasonable to my eyes. Then, he seems to get banished to the end of the bench after Green and Semi and finally shipped to Maine. Is he really worse than those guys?

I thought Green had at least one nice defensive block against Memphis, but I thought he looked awful on defense against the Lakers. Just seemed like everyone went right by him. I realize he can make some nice dunks on the offensive end, but given his age - I don't really see why he's not #15 on the bench right now.

With Tatum and Brown out, I'd much rather see Romeo than Green.
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't understand the Romeo usage pattern. It seemed like he was getting some early substitution action for a bit there, and he seemed reasonable to my eyes. Then, he seems to get banished to the end of the bench after Green and Semi and finally shipped to Maine. Is he really worse than those guys?

I thought Green had at least one nice defensive block against Memphis, but I thought he looked awful on defense against the Lakers. Just seemed like everyone went right by him. I realize he can make some nice dunks on the offensive end, but given his age - I don't really see why he's not #15 on the bench right now.

With Tatum and Brown out, I'd much rather see Romeo than Green.
I'm jonesing for Romeo also, but he probably stands to benefit from hands-on coaching more than Green. At Green's age, he's likely closer to a finished product than Romeo. Same could be said for Semi. If you're gonna have them around, use them. Sending them off for instruction won't make much difference.

I trust Brad and Danny on this stuff. Just would rather watch Romeo.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't understand the Romeo usage pattern. It seemed like he was getting some early substitution action for a bit there, and he seemed reasonable to my eyes. Then, he seems to get banished to the end of the bench after Green and Semi and finally shipped to Maine. Is he really worse than those guys?

I thought Green had at least one nice defensive block against Memphis, but I thought he looked awful on defense against the Lakers. Just seemed like everyone went right by him. I realize he can make some nice dunks on the offensive end, but given his age - I don't really see why he's not #15 on the bench right now.

With Tatum and Brown out, I'd much rather see Romeo than Green.
I'm guessing Romeo isn't in the correct spots on defense. It's not enough just to trying hard with man-to-man defense but he also has to know where he is supposed to be playing off ball. Something JB also had trouble with first year.
 

NomarsFool

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Interesting sequence tonight, Green runs away from Fultz - leaving him unguarded for some reason, Fultz misses, pass to Green for a nice dunk, looks like a hero.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The team is definitely “worse”.....the theory combines players stepping up when opportunity presents itself along with opponent playing down/not preparing properly due to the game theoretically being a cakewalk.
Ewing Theory in full affect tonight.
 

lovegtm

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Ewing Theory in full affect tonight.
You were right, I was wrong (although I'm glad it turned out that way, and it looked like we'd get rolled during that 1st-2nd quarter). Nice to see the young guys get more minutes and responsibility.

.... but I suppose Kemba could go off.
Feeling ok about this part though ;)

Also @benhogan : you were right that they dusted off VP...but man, he looks like shit. Don't think we'll see much more of him.
 
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NomarsFool

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Brad was effusive in his praise for Green on the defensive end last night. Maybe I'm wrong on him - I feel like I see guys going by him all the time, but Brad certainly knows more what he's looking for. I'm probably a bit biased because I don't think Green and Wannamaker are on this team next year, so I'd like to see 10-15 minutes a game going to Romeo instead to help with his development. I don't want to see Romeo racking up a bunch of DNP-CDs, but I'd also think with the half-dozen Celtics coaches with the big league club there should be plenty of people to help teach Romeo the NBA game. I'd also think, quite frankly, the quality of coaching with the Celtics is likely better than it is in Portland. It's not like the Red Claws are playing anything like the defense the Celtics play.
 

lovegtm

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Brad was effusive in his praise for Green on the defensive end last night. Maybe I'm wrong on him - I feel like I see guys going by him all the time, but Brad certainly knows more what he's looking for. I'm probably a bit biased because I don't think Green and Wannamaker are on this team next year, so I'd like to see 10-15 minutes a game going to Romeo instead to help with his development. I don't want to see Romeo racking up a bunch of DNP-CDs, but I'd also think with the half-dozen Celtics coaches with the big league club there should be plenty of people to help teach Romeo the NBA game. I'd also think, quite frankly, the quality of coaching with the Celtics is likely better than it is in Portland. It's not like the Red Claws are playing anything like the defense the Celtics play.
Javonte did a good job in the second half of getting in Ross's airspace coming off screens, which helped at the margins. He also had one or two great reads on the weakside in help.

As for Romeo: as I mentioned in the Red Claws thread, my guess is that they want him getting offensive reps as the primary creator, and there simply isn't room for him to do that while the big club is fighting for seeding in a brutal East.
 

JakeRae

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Brad was effusive in his praise for Green on the defensive end last night. Maybe I'm wrong on him - I feel like I see guys going by him all the time, but Brad certainly knows more what he's looking for. I'm probably a bit biased because I don't think Green and Wannamaker are on this team next year, so I'd like to see 10-15 minutes a game going to Romeo instead to help with his development. I don't want to see Romeo racking up a bunch of DNP-CDs, but I'd also think with the half-dozen Celtics coaches with the big league club there should be plenty of people to help teach Romeo the NBA game. I'd also think, quite frankly, the quality of coaching with the Celtics is likely better than it is in Portland. It's not like the Red Claws are playing anything like the defense the Celtics play.
I think you’re asking the wrong question. The right question is who can contribute to a playoff run this year. If Brad doesn’t see Romeo as a real part of that option but does see Green and Wanamaker as guys he might need to play in the playoffs, then the latter are who needs minutes now. With Romeo, the question is longer term and my guess is the team thinks getting small bursts of NBA minutes to keep him focused on the game he’s really preparing for while getting regular minutes in Portland is sufficient to keep him on track to fill the deep playoff depth role next year.

Note: the reason Grant Williams is the only rookie getting somewhat consistent NBA minutes is because he’s also the only rookie we might realistically end up using in the playoffs barring catastrophic injuries.
 

lovegtm

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I think you’re asking the wrong question. The right question is who can contribute to a playoff run this year. If Brad doesn’t see Romeo as a real part of that option but does see Green and Wanamaker as guys he might need to play in the playoffs, then the latter are who needs minutes now. With Romeo, the question is longer term and my guess is the team thinks getting small bursts of NBA minutes to keep him focused on the game he’s really preparing for while getting regular minutes in Portland is sufficient to keep him on track to fill the deep playoff depth role next year.

Note: the reason Grant Williams is the only rookie getting somewhat consistent NBA minutes is because he’s also the only rookie we might realistically end up using in the playoffs barring catastrophic injuries.
Exactly. Barring possible moves, the playoff rotation would be starters+Smart, Kanter and then Grant/Javonte/Semi/Wanamaker deployed in matchup and health dependent ways.
 

RetractableRoof

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The difference between Green and Langford is athleticism. They are both decent on ball defenders, and both are weaker within a team concept that is constantly switching/rotating. Given that, if there are minutes to be had, Green's superior athleticism is carrying the day in the short (2020) term. That leaves Langford with splinters in Boston, or getting 30 minutes in the G league, in theory learning to be/do the things you guys are talking about. I can't fault Ainge/Stevens for wanting him to get tons of minutes in the G league rather than making a fluctuating minor contribution on a night by night basis.

I admit it's disappointing to me as I want to see the kid as he blossoms, but if they think they have a shot "this year" and adding Romeo doesn't move the needle much, and Green moves it a tiny bit more this year, I've got to trust that.
 

Imbricus

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I think Green's got more upside than a lot of people give him credit for. At the beginning of the season, people posting here were saying that Strus vs. Green didn't matter much, because either was both going to be a 15th man, warming up the end of the bench except for blowouts. Well, we know now Green's better than that. Before last night's game, according to sports articles, the Celts coaches prepped him to guard Ross, who's burned us on 3 point shooting in the past. Ross was 3 for 14 last night, and 2 for 11 from three.

I'm not saying he's going to turn into an all star or anything, but the guy brings energy and seems even more athletic than Jaylen. Did you see that double-pump dunk he did last night? It looked like he knew he had a defender on his shoulder, so he kind of fake-pumped while flying through the air, then quickly dunked it. That was pretty damn impressive.
 

bigq

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Also keep in mind that Green is six years older than Langford which may play into the decision to get Langford more development minutes in Maine. I did not realize until today that both are the same height at 6-4. From what little I have seen Green has an explosive first step and elite high end speed which I think goes along with RR’s athleticism comment. I haven’t seen enough of Langford to know whether he has that extra gear as well. In any case it seems Green is further along than Romeo and part of that may simply be maturity.
 

NomarsFool

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I enjoy the dunks, but I guess I'm just not a big fan. Not thrilled when goes to the line and misses both free throws, and Green did that more than once this week. I feel like he's not great from 3, either. Wannamaker will be in the playoff rotation, but I'll be surprised if Green is.
 

Imbricus

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Green was 36.1% from three last year in Europe (granted, not quite the same three-point line), and 74.2% from the foul line. The three years before, from three-point range, he was 32.8%, 37.7%, and 41.5%. His foul shooting over those years ranged from 69.6% to 84.8%. Not a great foul shooter, but maybe serviceable. Three-point shot doesn't appear to be a lost cause, though he can probably use some work: he's only 28.6% this year.

Anyway, we'll see. I don't think anyone would dispute at the very least that he was a great find, in the bargain bin.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ewing Theory is a team plays better with a star out because the star is overrated. Last night was not Ewing Theory.
This is not how Simmons originally described this phenomenon. One of the examples he first used was the Seattle Mariners after losing Ken Griffey and Randy Johnson. He never intimated that either were overrated only that a team inexplicably plays better when they are injured or on the bench.
Ironically, as a basketball board, we never connect probably the most obvious example, DeMarr DeRozan.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Green was 36.1% from three last year in Europe (granted, not quite the same three-point line), and 74.2% from the foul line. The three years before, from three-point range, he was 32.8%, 37.7%, and 41.5%. His foul shooting over those years ranged from 69.6% to 84.8%. Not a great foul shooter, but maybe serviceable. Three-point shot doesn't appear to be a lost cause, though he can probably use some work: he's only 28.6% this year.

Anyway, we'll see. I don't think anyone would dispute at the very least that he was a great find, in the bargain bin.
He's only taken 21 3Ps. If he had hit one more, he would be at 33.3%.

As for FT shooting, he seems decent enough. He was at 78.9% before the PHO game. It only came down because he went 1/4; 5/7; and 1/4.

Brad/DA from the beginning have told JG that his ticket would be defense. I thought ORL was the best defense he played against a terrific scorer.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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I'm not saying he's going to turn into an all star or anything, but the guy brings energy and seems even more athletic than Jaylen. Did you see that double-pump dunk he did last night? It looked like he knew he had a defender on his shoulder, so he kind of fake-pumped while flying through the air, then quickly dunked it. That was pretty damn impressive.
28221
Apologies for the blown up screenshot, but this is the bench reaction to that dunk. He basically fakes the jam on the left side then pumps it over to almost a reverse on the right. Just absurd athleticism and hang time.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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His game is a little less refined but the energy is real. Between Grant, Kanter, Semi and Wanamaker, the bench can be pretty slow and plodding at times so it’s nice to have his speed and explosion off the bench as a change of pace. I have really liked Langford in his limited minutes and am as eager as anyone to see him get a real look, but Green is helping the team and if he is increasingly able to pick up the defensive rotations, he becomes a pretty interesting option given the athletic package.

Sidenote—it sure seems like this year’s team has been much better at attacking the rim on fast breaks rather than having everyone run to the three point line to clang a three when there are two free points and/or a foul to be had.
 

benhogan

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Brad/DA from the beginning have told JG that his ticket would be defense. I thought ORL was the best defense he played against a terrific scorer.
Yep. The Celtics' really fly when the on-ball/perimeter defense is aggressive and players are jumping the passing lane.

SSS aside, Green has 1.9 stls/36 (17th in the NBA)


(Danny should have figured out a way to keep Thybulle:confused:)
 

BigSoxFan

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Don't draft Edwards and just use the pick? They really overthought that one, particulary on a team that has a roster-spot crunch anyway.
Yup. Thybulle would have been a nice piece in a league full of long wings. Not sure why we didn’t just lock him in.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yep. The Celtics' really fly when the on-ball/perimeter defense is aggressive and players are jumping the passing lane.

SSS aside, Green has 1.9 stls/36 (17th in the NBA)


(Danny should have figured out a way to keep Thybulle:confused:)
Apparently, Thybulle didn't work out for anyone after PHI made a promise: https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-matisse-thybulle-canceled-all-his-workouts-due-to-early-promise-from-philly-at-no-20/.

At least Ainge got #33 out of it. He was also able to turn #24 and Baynes into MIL's 2020 1st round pick, which I guess helped with the roster spot crunch.

Thus is the way of the NBA I guess.
 

NomarsFool

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Hmmm.....not so sure many folks on this board are happy to have traded #24 and Baynes for the 29th pick this year. Would much rather have Baynes on this team than Edwards.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hmmm.....not so sure many folks on this board are happy to have traded #24 and Baynes for the 29th pick this year. Would much rather have Baynes on this team than Edwards.
Would those same people also be happy with Wanamaker as the starting PG without clearing the necessary cap space to sign Kemba? Can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The difference between Green and Langford is athleticism. They are both decent on ball defenders, and both are weaker within a team concept that is constantly switching/rotating. Given that, if there are minutes to be had, Green's superior athleticism is carrying the day in the short (2020) term. That leaves Langford with splinters in Boston, or getting 30 minutes in the G league, in theory learning to be/do the things you guys are talking about. I can't fault Ainge/Stevens for wanting him to get tons of minutes in the G league rather than making a fluctuating minor contribution on a night by night basis.

I admit it's disappointing to me as I want to see the kid as he blossoms, but if they think they have a shot "this year" and adding Romeo doesn't move the needle much, and Green moves it a tiny bit more this year, I've got to trust that.

I'm fine with Langford in Maine playing 30+ minutes because I think if all goes well, that will be his role in the NBA. Plus it should help him develop his overall game. I hate seeing Carsen Edwards in the G league because he's playing the exact opposite role we want him to play in the NBA. We want to see if Carsen can adjust to coming into games off the bench in short burst and giving the team offensive production.

Then again, I'd rather see Carsen in the G league than NBA games at this point in time. And if he's in the g league, you have to start him since he''d be one of the most talented players in the g league.
 

benhogan

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Would those same people also be happy with Wanamaker as the starting PG without clearing the necessary cap space to sign Kemba? Can't have your cake and eat it too.
Its just kind of ironic that Baynes was doing Danny/Celtics a "solid' by opting in on a below-market deal. By doing that, Danny was forced to deal AB (and subsequently #20)

BTW, why would Brad Wanamaker start over Marcus Smart?
 

NomarsFool

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If we don't trade Baynes, we don't sign Kanter. There would have been a way to fit everyone under the same cap, but it's possible the timing didn't work quite right - I have no idea. I'm not faulting Ainge for not completely threading the needle to have a whole bunch of moving pieces line up perfectly in place. Just saying, in the end - I don't consider the 24th pick + Baynes for Milwaukee's pick + Edwards to be a "win" for the good guys.
 

Jimbodandy

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If we don't trade Baynes, we don't sign Kanter. There would have been a way to fit everyone under the same cap, but it's possible the timing didn't work quite right - I have no idea. I'm not faulting Ainge for not completely threading the needle to have a whole bunch of moving pieces line up perfectly in place. Just saying, in the end - I don't consider the 24th pick + Baynes for Milwaukee's pick + Edwards to be a "win" for the good guys.
That's only because you're not reading the posts.

Baynes had to go in order to sign Kemba.
 

scottyno

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That's only because you're not reading the posts.

Baynes had to go in order to sign Kemba.
In a perfect world they could have kept him because they ended up signing and trading rozier for kemba right? Of course that required knowing that the bobcats would be interested in rozier at a large enough salary that they needed to sign and trade and that he'd want to go there, which they probably had no idea was a possibility at the time.
 

lovegtm

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In a perfect world they could have kept him because they ended up signing and trading rozier for kemba right? Of course that required knowing that the bobcats would be interested in rozier at a large enough salary that they needed to sign and trade and that he'd want to go there, which they probably had no idea was a possibility at the time.
Yeah I'd have to go back, but I think that was the case.

The slightly crappier part was having to give Baynes away as a negative or neutral asset.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm fine with Langford in Maine playing 30+ minutes because I think if all goes well, that will be his role in the NBA. Plus it should help him develop his overall game. I hate seeing Carsen Edwards in the G league because he's playing the exact opposite role we want him to play in the NBA. We want to see if Carsen can adjust to coming into games off the bench in short burst and giving the team offensive production.

Then again, I'd rather see Carsen in the G league than NBA games at this point in time. And if he's in the g league, you have to start him since he''d be one of the most talented players in the g league.
You could potentially do both with Carsen in the G league. Don't have him start, but rather have him come into the game off the bench with like 5 minutes left in the 1st quarter. Then give him the rest of the quarter. See how he does in that short burst. Then he sits to start the second quarter, comes in maybe halfway through, and then plays most of the rest of the game. Or something like that.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Lost in all the other newsflow is that Poirier looked better yesterday as Stevens was forced to go to him with Kanter out. Statistically it wasn't amazing but his defensive positioning was good and he had another block. It may be a mirage but perhaps writing him off having played just ~90 NBA minutes is a bit premature.

And I get the point that the coaching staff has not given him more run but that may be more because he is an NBA rookie big versus that he is a bust. My understanding is that bigs take longer to learn how to play in the Association versus wings and ball handlers.

I am not suggesting that SexPants will get more rotational minutes but it would be a positive development if he could play capably in small stretches.
 

NomarsFool

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He seemed okay. I was a little surprised they didn't go with more of GW, who played less than 10 minutes, but I assume there was something in the matchups that CBS didn't like.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I forget what the lineup was on the floor, but at one point they gave up a pitiful 7-8 shots on one Pelican's possession. They were getting demolished on the boards because they didn't have any size under the basket.
 

amarshal2

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I dunno if he was injured, slumping, in his head or what but Jaylen has looked just a bit off all month, even in his good games. He looked like his December self tonight. It was good to see him back.
 

lovegtm

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I dunno if he was injured, slumping, in his head or what but Jaylen has looked just a bit off all month, even in his good games. He looked like his December self tonight. It was good to see him back.
I was surprised when I looked at his slash line and saw that it was still good--I thought his shittiness would have shown there more. Agree he hasn't looked good for awhile (outside of maybe the Laker game).

I forget what the lineup was on the floor, but at one point they gave up a pitiful 7-8 shots on one Pelican's possession. They were getting demolished on the boards because they didn't have any size under the basket.
Yeah, I remember this possession. It had little to do with size, and everything to do with absolutely no effort. I think I turned the game off after that specific possession, because if they weren't going to care, I wasn't either.

Size/rebounding isn't so much this team's issue (statistically and eye test). Perimeter defense/offense/effort is where they live or die. On that note, I'm also concerned they don't have enough shooting--that will kill them against long, athletic teams like Milwaukee and Philly that can take away their usual physical dominance on the wing.
 
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NomarsFool

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It does seem like JB has regressed a little bit since the start of the season (not every game, but definitely some). It's a long season, and I can imagine generating the intensity for these mid-season games can be difficult.

You look back at some of the great Celtics teams and you really have to marvel how they were able to do it night in and night out. That '86 Celtics team that went 40-1 at home. Unbelievable. That '07 team that had all those amazing streaks and runs.