This.Look it’s all well and good for fins fans that the dolphins are stock piling draft picks. However you can stockpile as many as possible but you still need to hit on them. No guarantee they will draft well with those picks.
You should not be. Praise another HC, a player or another team, another GM, and well ...I am a little confused by the past few posts. Are you all saying that drafting is hard so why even try to get better?
What the Dolphins are doing is a solid strategy and if they can get a good QB in the next draft they will be a great position to be competitive again fairly quickly.
I understand the strategy of trading older players and bad fits for draft capital. They should certainly send out the Kenny Stills and Kiko Alonso’s of the world tout suite. I just don’t get the universal praise for jettisoning a 25 year old, cost-controlled, franchise LT for future assets, some of which they must now use to hopefully (and not necessarily successfully) replace him. Given his age and cost, as well as the importance of his position, I would think that he (along with Nixon) would be the type of player they would rebuild around, not without.What the Dolphins are doing is a solid strategy and if they can get a good QB in the next draft they will be a great position to be competitive again fairly quickly.
He was cost-controlled for 2 more years, and given their current approach, Miami will not be competitive over the next 2 years. Better to trade him now to maximize his value. And to say they maximized his value is putting it mildly.I understand the strategy of trading older players and bad fits for draft capital. They should certainly send out the Kenny Stills and Kiko Alonso’s of the world tout suite. I just don’t get the universal praise for jettisoning a 25 year old, cost-controlled, franchise LT for future assets, some of which they must now use to hopefully (and not necessarily successfully) replace him. Given his age and cost, as well as the importance of his position, I would think that he (along with Nixon) would be the type of player they would rebuild around, not without.
Are they actually competent...I think that remains to be seen. I say it’s more likely Bill O’Brien is brain dead.Outstanding haul for Miami. I hate when other GMs in the division are competent.
As has been pointed out, sometimes all you have to do is wait for the other guy to fuck up.Are they actually competent...I think that remains to be seen. I say it’s more likely Bill O’Brien is brain dead.
I still think you look at Rosen as a lottery ticket. Obviously Miami looks to be bad this year. He gives you the flexibility to choose your QB in the next 2 drafts. If Miami decides its Trevor Lawrence or if Tua goes back for a senior year, they can rebuild the team’s roster and have Rosen play in 2020.Operation Fish Tank in full effect.
(Stole that from Mina Kimes - love it.)
And on a more serious note, I was kind of stunned when I saw Tunsil had been traded, but it’s hard to get too upset after seeing what they received and not knowing where they stood with him long term (contract wise, how they viewed him as a player, person, etc etc)
Only other thing I will say is that I was one of the few people who didn’t see the Rosen trade as a no-brainer...and I think it makes even less sense now. This is not a situation where he’s set up to succeed. It’s tough to envision any situation where he proves more than competent and it just seems this rookie crop of qb’s can provide more upside, while fitting the current time table more effectively.
And having said that, it seems the expectation and consensus os that Miami will land one of the top prospects next year...so I just go back to, “why bother?” when it comes to Rosen and if the goal really is to burn it down and rebuild the right way.
In two years, he’d be a 27 year old franchise LT entering his sixth season. Using this logic, why aren’t they getting criticized for extending Howard who has the same amount of experience and is a year older?He was cost-controlled for 2 more years, and given their current approach, Miami will not be competitive over the next 2 years. Better to trade him now to maximize his value. And to say they maximized his value is putting it mildly.
He had one year left on his deal, so he wasn't worth as much on the trade market. It's also possible Flores thinks he can build a defense more quickly than an offense. Lots of potential explanations.In two years, he’d be a 27 year old franchise LT entering his sixth season. Using this logic, why aren’t they getting criticized for extending Howard who has the same amount of experience and is a year older?
It's two. Remember that first rounders are typically given 4 year contracts with a team option. The Fish exercised the 2020 option in April.He had one year left on his deal, so he wasn't worth as much on the trade market. It's also possible Flores thinks he can build a defense more quickly than an offense. Lots of potential explanations.
Thanks - missed thatIt's two. Remember that first rounders are typically given 4 year contracts with a team option. The Fish exercised the 2020 option in April.
Yes, exactly. They got a haul for Tunsil, but are they likely to draft somebody with those picks who is as good as he is? And yes he was going to get expensive, but they're going to have a ton of cap space. Are they going to spend it on someone as good as Tunsil? I don't see how you rebuild an offensive line by trading your only talented offensive lineman.Also, they need to rebuild the O-Line. They have little to no playmakers. And they also need to find a QB. I don't like the odds of them being able to do so.
Tunsil was very good, and on the cusp of being a potentially great LT. Miami won nothing with Jake Long, even when he was healthy and a Pro Bowl LT. The Browns won nothing with Joe Thomas, a first ballot hall of famer and one of the best to ever play his position.Yes, exactly. They got a haul for Tunsil, but are they likely to draft somebody with those picks who is as good as he is? And yes he was going to get expensive, but they're going to have a ton of cap space. Are they going to spend it on someone as good as Tunsil? I don't see how you rebuild an offensive line by trading your only talented offensive lineman.
I realize it's a different regime, but given this franchise's record of drafting guys like Dion Jordan and signing mediocre free agents, it's hard to be excited about burning the team down like this.
Ross held a press conference on New Year’s Eve and said they were going to rebuild the right way. They went and signed Flores to a 5 year deal. Anyone that thought this was going to be a one year process was mistaken.The piece to me that would be worrying for a Fish fan is the mixed messages the team is sending. You fire your coach and dump your quarterback, you hire an up-and-coming guy in Flores and trade for Rosen ... and then you clear out the roster for what is likely a 2-3 year rebuild that effectively gives the new coach and QB one season at best to produce.
It's hard to know what direction the team is going in. I'm not convinced they know either.
Trading for Rosen was an attempt to fast track the process without giving up anything major of value. If Rosen looked like a star in training camp and preseason, maybe they don’t trade Tunsil and they decide to let Rosen be the guy for the next two years.I think what happened is they saw what they had in Rosen and decided to tank.
I agree with this ... except it doesn't virtually guarantee them whatever QB they want. If some team finishes with a worse record, they may not trade out of #1 no matter what kind of haul Miami can dangle in front of them.Tunsil was very good, and on the cusp of being a potentially great LT. Miami won nothing with Jake Long, even when he was healthy and a Pro Bowl LT. The Browns won nothing with Joe Thomas, a first ballot hall of famer and one of the best to ever play his position.
If they traded Tunsil for a second round pick, I would be irate. Trading him for two firsts and a second is absolutely insane. It all but guarantees they get whatever QB they want in the next two years, and still have ample ammo to sign free agents and restock in the draft.
They traded the 62nd pick and a 2020 fifth for Rosen. That's virtually nothing in QB terms. He was functionally the fifth QB off the board in 2019, a year after being the third QB and a top-10 pick. The actual fifth QB in 2019 didn't go until Will Grier with the 100th pick. The upside of hitting on a QB is so high that the chances of success here can be pretty low and still worth it. This is why Ron Wolf espoused taking a QB every year (and why the Patriots take a QB every other year). The Dolphins took a smart, low-cost flyer on Rosen. The cost of adding Rosen in no way impairs anything they want to do in the future.Only other thing I will say is that I was one of the few people who didn’t see the Rosen trade as a no-brainer...and I think it makes even less sense now. This is not a situation where he’s set up to succeed. It’s tough to envision any situation where he proves more than competent and it just seems this rookie crop of qb’s can provide more upside, while fitting the current time table more effectively.
And having said that, it seems the expectation and consensus os that Miami will land one of the top prospects next year...so I just go back to, “why bother?” when it comes to Rosen and if the goal really is to burn it down and rebuild the right way.
Do you trust Grier to lead the rebuild? While he claims to be a collaborator, he also has made it clear that he has been responsible for the Dolphins’ last four drafts where his record is mixed at best. He had some hits in 2016 but appears to have whiffed on 2017 with incompletes and uncertainty surrounding the last two classes.Greir has put on a masterclass in how to tear it down and rebuild.
I think any decent GM knows that there are going to be big swings and misses as well as hits. They key is giving yourself more swings, which they certainly have. Also, there’s no uncertainty. Miami will 100% be scouting QBs all year, and have the most informed decision possible.Do you trust Grier to lead the rebuild? While he claims to be a collaborator, he also has made it clear that he has been responsible for the Dolphins’ last four drafts where his record is mixed at best. He had some hits in 2016 but appears to have whiffed on 2017 with incompletes and uncertainty surrounding the last two classes.
The problem is that if you are starting to rebuild successfully, you might not be bad enough in 2021 to get a top-tier QB. The Browns could have easily gone 4-12 in 2017 and missed out on Mayfield and Darnold. I think you have to scout the crap out of QBs every year and get your guy when you can.I think any decent GM knows that there are going to be big swings and misses as well as hits. They key is giving yourself more swings, which they certainly have. Also, there’s no uncertainty. Miami will 100% be scouting QBs all year, and have the most informed decision possible.
The biggest one is the QB, bar none. It will be interesting to see which strategy they employ. A case can be made for building the team in 2020 and drafting a QB in 2021, ala Browns. I think that is my personal preference.
Let’s say they secure a top 3 pick and Tua, Herbert, and Fromm all declare. Auction that pick off to the highest bidder looking for a QB, secure a mountain of picks in 2021, and go all in for a QB the following year.
AreYouNotEntertained.jpgOh my God
one down, 31 to go. I wouldn't build around too, I'd wait for the Clemson QB. But I bet someone would be willing to pay a lot for TuaOne down, 15 to go.