2019 NFL: News & Transactions

[RG33]

This really is an incredible deal for Oakland, and one of the worst deals ever in NFL history for Pittsburgh. Not only do the basically give away one of the best WRs in the league — and in league history — but they have to suck on his $21million dead cap hit for next year. I mean, it has to be fairly unprecedented with respect to 1.) Giving up a superstar in his prime, 2.) Getting almost no return, 3.) Having ~15% of your salary cap wasted.

Pittsburgh has obviously been a model franchise for a long time, but having Bell sit out last year and losing AB like this this year looks pretty bad, particularly with their window closing with Ben.

 

[tims4wins]

This really is an incredible deal for Oakland, and one of the worst deals ever in NFL history for Pittsburgh. Not only do the basically give away one of the best WRs in the league — and in league history — but they have to suck on his $21million dead cap hit for next year. I mean, it has to be fairly unprecedented with respect to 1.) Giving up a superstar in his prime, 2.) Getting almost no return, 3.) Having ~15% of your salary cap wasted.

Pittsburgh has obviously been a model franchise for a long time, but having Bell sit out last year and losing AB like this this year looks pretty bad, particularly with their window closing with Ben.

Bill Barnwell had a great breakdown of how the Steelers got to this point, and why the way they structure contracts bit them in the ass. He made the exact same points you did about the dead cap hit / no return / giving up a star.

For all the talk about how the Patriots don't pay, the Steelers just let two of the top 10? 15? skill position players leave because they wouldn't pay.

Link: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26186487/grading-antonio-brown-trade-steelers-raiders-won

 

[Super Nomario]

Gregg Rosenthal with a semi-funny:

Brown's new contract is for three years and $50.125M with a maximum value of $54.125M, according to Rapoport. (That's roughly $12 million more than his old contract called for.) He will receive $30.125M guaranteed, which is $30.125M more than he was due to receive from the Steelers.

The reporting around the bolded is really disingenuous. The Steelers gave Brown $19 MM guaranteed when he signed the deal two years ago, then guaranteed another $13 MM last offseason by converting his roster bonus and most of his salary to a signing bonus. There's a reason Pittsburgh's eating a $21 MM cap hit this year - that was all guaranteed money.

 

[dcmissle]

I think this is what happens when you paint yourself into a corner — or, rather, let your drama queen QB paint you into a corner. Then compound that by shrinking the trading partner pool by putting some teams off limits. Then exacerbate it all by putting yourself on a clock.

The fuse was lit when the media’s favorite football tough guy, Mike Tomlin (worthy successor to their previous favorite tough guy, Jeff Fisher) hit the outrage button and made a BFD out of AB’s late season transgressions. Which were admittedly outrageous. But here’s the problem — player’s coach Mike Tomlin has been nurturing the diva culture and enabling this bullshit for years.

I know Ben calls the shots. Pittsburgh’s management has made that clear. But they should have kept this quiet, addressed it behind closed doors, and dealt him in a more stealthy way.

All this said, they will probably hit on their compensation by drafting All Pros at the skill positions. That’s how they roll. But it could have been better.

 

[tims4wins]

I think this is what happens when you paint yourself into a corner — or, rather, let your drama queen QB paint you into a corner. Then compound that by shrinking the trading partner pool by putting some teams off limits. Then exacerbate it all by putting yourself on a clock.

The fuse was lit when the media’s favorite football tough guy, Mike Tomlin (worthy successor to their previous favorite tough guy, Jeff Fisher) hit the outrage button and made a BFD out of AB’s late season transgressions. Which were admittedly outrageous. But here’s the problem — player’s coach Mike Tomlin has been nurturing the diva culture and enabling this bullshit for years.

I know Ben calls the shots. Pittsburgh’s management has made that clear. But they should have kept this quiet, addressed it behind closed doors, and dealt him in a more stealthy way.

All this said, they will probably hit on their computer by drafting All Pros at the skill positions. That’s how they roll. But it could have been better.

Jeff Fisher?

I agree though on Tomlin - he let this stuff go for years (remember Facebook live after the 2016 divisional game before the AFCCG loss?) - and finally decided to toughen up.

If I were a Steelers fan I think I'd be most mad that Tomlin is still there. They should have moved on from him a few years ago, not unlike the Packers and another SB winning coach, McCarthy.

 

[dcmissle]

Jeff Fisher?

I agree though on Tomlin - he let this stuff go for years (remember Facebook live after the 2016 divisional game before the AFCCG loss?) - and finally decided to toughen up.

If I were a Steelers fan I think I'd be most mad that Tomlin is still there. They should have moved on from him a few years ago, not unlike the Packers and another SB winning coach, McCarthy.

It was a throwaway, but yeah Fisher. Media heartthrob because he dished, “tough guy” and, unlike some other coaches we know, sucked up to them all. I thank God for his .400 winning percentage at his last stop with the Rams, for Peter King and Co would otherwise be about miracling his ass into Canton.

And nice to see BB’s friend Mike Mayock off to a strong start. I’ve always liked him and missed him last week.

 

[koufax32]

I know Ben calls the shots. Pittsburgh’s management has made that clear. But they should have kept this quiet, addressed it behind closed doors, and dealt him in a more stealthy way.

Easier said than done, no? Keeping problems with a loose cannon like Brown is a pretty tall order.

 

[tims4wins]

It was a throwaway, but yeah Fisher. Media heartthrob because he dished, “tough guy” and, unlike some other coaches we know, sucked up to them all. I thank God for his .400 winning percentage at his last stop with the Rams, for Peter King and Co would otherwise be about miracling his ass into Canton.

And nice to see BB’s friend Mike Mayock off to a strong start. I’ve always liked him and missed him last week.

Ah I misread your post and missed the "media" part - thought you meant to reference Cowher.

Agree on missing Mayock last week.

 

[dcmissle]

Easier said than done, no? Keeping problems with a loose cannon like Brown is a pretty tall order.

Trying to deal him at all would have inevitably raised questions. But calling AB out at Tomlin’s season ending press conference and making it clear he was not long for Pittsburgh was not the way to go.

 

[tims4wins]

Trying to deal him at all would have inevitably raised questions. But calling AB out at Tomlin’s season ending press conference and making it clear he was not long for Pittsburgh was not the way to go.

Right, they handled this about as anti-Patriots as it gets. People get frustrated that BB doesn't say more in his press conferences... this example is like Exhibit A why.

 

[BigJimEd]

Just think of the difference if Pitt traded Brown and Bell last off season. How much more could they have gotten?

 

[koufax32]

Trying to deal him at all would have inevitably raised questions. But calling AB out at Tomlin’s season ending press conference and making it clear he was not long for Pittsburgh was not the way to go.

Forgot about that. Agreed then.

 

[tims4wins]

Just think of the difference if Pitt traded Brown and Bell last off season. How much more could they have gotten?

Seriously. Probably at least a pair of 1s and a pair of 2s-3s. Instead they got a partial season from Brown, no playoffs, a 3rd and a 5th, and $21M hit.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Great move for the Raiders. Brown is a fucking awesome player and got the money he wanted - he’ll be great for them if Carr gets him the ball.

If they’re smart, they’ll frontload the hell out of this deal. With about 45M in cap netting out money needed to sign draft picks, it really doesn’t matter much if they take a big hit this year. They’re probably a year or two away from seriously competing, but a handful of smart signings and a home rim draft and they’re in good shape.

To Carr or not to Carr will remain their biggest storyline for the next two years.

 

[Van Everyman]

 

[Marbleheader]

He wished for a trade. He wished to leave Pittsburgh There's one thing he didn't wish for He didn't wish for the Raiders.

 

[Ed Hillel]

He wished for a trade. He wished to leave Pittsburgh There's one thing he didn't wish for He didn't wish for the Raiders.

lol oh man

 

[Red Averages]

He wished for a trade. He wished to leave Pittsburgh There's one thing he didn't wish for He didn't wish for the Raiders.

Well done

 

[pappymojo]

Bill Barnwell had a great breakdown of how the Steelers got to this point, and why the way they structure contracts bit them in the ass. He made the exact same points you did about the dead cap hit / no return / giving up a star.

For all the talk about how the Patriots don't pay, the Steelers just let two of the top 10? 15? skill position players leave because they wouldn't pay.

Link: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26186487/grading-antonio-brown-trade-steelers-raiders-won

This quote makes no sense.

It wasn't quite Terrell Owens doing sit-ups in his driveway, but Brown's decision to go onto Twitter and call out Ben Roethlisberger didn't do his situation any favors.

AB got exactly what he wanted. It didn't do the Steelers' situation any favors sure, but it didn't hurt AB's situation. He basically got to dictate what team he was traded to.

This is also incorrect:

If you want to trace back to where everything went wrong in the relationship between the Steelers and Brown, it starts with one of the best contracts in modern league history. After Brown's second year in the league yielded an 1,108-yard season, the team gave the 2010 sixth-round pick a considerable raise by signing him to a five-year, $42 million extension with an $8.5 million signing bonus.

Things went wrong when the Steelers franchise tagged Bell for a second year. To fit under the cap (for a player (Bell) who never played for them again) they restructured AB's contract to guarantee a lot of his money in a bonus. This opened up cap space that year while spreading it to future years (which is why they got so screwed when they were forced to trade him). If they don't use tge tag for a second year onBell, they don't need to restructure Brown. If they don't restructure Brown, there isnt nearly the same fiscal fall-out for the team when he forces his way out of town.

 

[bosockboy]

 

[54thMA]

How on earth does the Steelers organization spin this as a positive to their fan base? A 3rd/5th AND they get whacked with 21 million in dead money?

That's the best deal they could get?

Dying to hear Steelers fans attempt to put a positive spin on this, ought to be comedic gold.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

This quote makes no sense.



AB got exactly what he wanted. It didn't do the Steelers' situation any favors sure, but it didn't hurt AB's situation. He basically got to dictate what team he was traded to.

Agree with you. Barnwell's quote above seems to reflect the conventional wisdom of business-of-football types on Brown - e.g. Andrew Brandt has been saying that AB has gone about this the wrong way, and that he's hurt his market by limiting his number of teams and seeming like someone who doesn't get along with his QB. And yet the clear winner of this trade is AB.

This should make business-of-football types revisit their mental models of how little leverage superstar football players have compared to other sports.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

To some degree it's a sunk-cost problem: Brown's cap hit of $21 mil is the same trade/release so that is irrelevant---all that matters is what you get in exchange for him and where you send him.

They did about as well as they could on the 'where' part, sending him to a probable non-contender. Certainly, a 3 and a 5 doesn't sound great for a top WR, but given his contract demands, attitude, and age I doubt there was a ton more out there either. And I imagine they determined they couldn't get him to come back---whether right or wrong, it's reasonable.

The whole thing became a huge mess for them, and I guess for me getting those picks is better than releasing him which was not out of the question if the trade market was soft.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Brown created the mess, and turns out he held more cards in the endgame than the Steelers did (good job NFLPA). Lesson to be learned is a.) don’t draft a diva WR, b.) if you do add a diva WR to your team via draft or trade or FA, have a system in place they are willing to buy into, c.) if all else fails, get rid of your diva WR a year too early rather than a year too late.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Brown created the mess, and turns out he held more cards in the endgame than the Steelers did (good job NFLPA). Lesson to be learned is a.) don’t draft a diva WR, b.) if you do add a diva WR to your team via draft or trade or FA, have a system in place they are willing to buy into, c.) if all else fails, get rid of your diva WR a year too early rather than a year too late.

A and B would seem to be the wrong lessons to take. The ending was horrible, but I doubt the Steelers regret what they did actually get out of Brown the last few years.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

I’m not sure there’s any lesson because it’s such a unique scenario.

 

[tims4wins]

Only lesson is to not trap yourselves into guarantees that destroy your cap in the event you have to get rid of the player.

 

[Red Averages]

The lesson is to not have a toxic culture that plays out in a public manner that forces you to sell off assets at deep discounts.

 

[dcmissle]

If I were a Pittsburgh fan this morning, I’d be pissed at everybody. Pissed at AB but also,

Pissed at a HC who has enabled this stuff for years — and by extension at an executive suite that had enabled the enabling, and

Pissed at Roethlisberger, who did his full share poisoning this well. I like Ben on the whole, one of the few guys I’d want all these years if we didn’t have Brady. But I loathe the “he ran the wrong route” crap. There is no excuse for it — just as there was no excuse for the Nationwide kid to throw his offensive line under the bus. It’s piss poor leadership.

 

[Fred in Lynn]

How on earth does the Steelers organization spin this as a positive to their fan base? A 3rd/5th AND they get whacked with 21 million in dead money?

That's the best deal they could get?

Dying to hear Steelers fans attempt to put a positive spin on this, ought to be comedic gold.

Is an aggressive social media propaganda campaign the answer? It was long understood that the general outcome would yield modest return at best. A third and a fifth is undoubtedly less than was expected. Oh well. The lack of a need to “spin” is because Steeler fans almost unanimously hold AB responsible. I have no doubt the situation is more complex (e.g., from my view, the suggestion that Ben is a manipulative prima donna is completely plausible), but Brown is the one who scorched the Earth. The whole fan base knows they lost out, but spin is not necessary.

The “comedic gold” is in the eye of the beholder. You should read Patriot game day threads from the view of a non-Patriot fan. Every fan base looks like a comedy routine from the outside because like minds largely tell themselves a convenient story in the heat of the moment. We could probably ask jon abbey or another MFY fan their opinion of a Sox GDT and get the same answer. Don’t fool yourself.

 

[Al Zarilla]

How on earth does the Steelers organization spin this as a positive to their fan base? A 3rd/5th AND they get whacked with 21 million in dead money?

That's the best deal they could get?

Dying to hear Steelers fans attempt to put a positive spin on this, ought to be comedic gold.

You can schadenfreude here for a while.
http://www.steelerfury.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=81cd8b8b25282435020356f750fb9ff5

 

[Fred in Lynn]

The lesson is to not have a toxic culture that plays out in a public manner that forces you to sell off assets at deep discounts.

This is only slightly melodramatic (I rolled my eyes when I typed it). I’m sure the organization doesn’t have a “toxic culture.” I absolutely agree that the head coach bears a large degree of responsibility for treating players differently, and I’m almost surprised that he’s still the HC (he wouldn’t be in almost 96.875% of the other organizations). It is a style that can be effective when you’re coaching responsible professionals, but not so much when key players don’t fit a certain mold. The cows really came home to roost in 2018. If you’re a Steeler fan and looking for silver linings - which at this point is like finding a can of tomato soup after the apocalypse - their two most vocal troublesome players will be somewhere else in 2019.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

Steelers source emphasizes AB trade is agreement only and “it’s never over till it’s over.”

 

[dcmissle]

You can schadenfreude here for a while.
http://www.steelerfury.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=81cd8b8b25282435020356f750fb9ff5

So I checked out the Fire Colbert thread, one of several there at the boiling point this morning. And I found a pretty wide range of opinion with healthy disagreement for who is primarily responsible for this mess. But make no mistake, with the exception of a few Jerry Thorntons/Glenn Orways, the posters are owning fully that this is a massive fail.

 

[54thMA]

You can schadenfreude here for a while.
http://www.steelerfury.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=81cd8b8b25282435020356f750fb9ff5

Oh man, thanks a million; where do you want me to send a check made out to you with crooked numbers? Beautiful...…….."The third round pick is really a second round pick"...…………..no, it's a third round pick...……….just like when the Patriots draft 32nd in the first round, it's not an early 2nd round pick, it's a first round pick.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Steelers source emphasizes AB trade is agreement only and “it’s never over till it’s over.”

Oh God, would this be funny. Please back out!

 

[nolasoxfan]

Steelers source emphasizes AB trade is agreement only and “it’s never over till it’s over.”

Lol. I guess that’s one way of going about your business. What a mess.

 

[54thMA]

The “comedic gold” is in the eye of the beholder. You should read Patriot game day threads from the view of a non-Patriot fan. Every fan base looks like a comedy routine from the outside because like minds largely tell themselves a convenient story in the heat of the moment. We could probably ask jon abbey or another MFY fan their opinion of a Sox GDT and get the same answer. Don’t fool yourself.

Thanks for the detailed and well thought out reply.

For me, "comedic gold" is how it never fails on this forum that when the Yankees/Eagles/Penguins/76ers/whoever land some player via trade or free agent signing, it's hailed by fans of theirs on this forum as "brilliant/great fit/excellent contract/no downside/he'll be a monster for us", yet when the Red Sox/Patriots/Bruins/Celtics do the same, it's met with "bad move/bad fit/terrible contract to take on/no upside/he's got character issues" by those same opposing fans.

Never fails, specifically Yankees fans; have they ever made a bad move in their eyes on this forum?

But I digress.

 

[Brand Name]

Spider 2 Y the fuck did Pittsburgh accept?

Oh God, would this be funny. Please back out!

Well, this at least confirms Big Ben isn't on the move.

Never fails, specifically Yankees fans; have they ever made a bad move in their eyes on this forum?

This is picking nits, but: Ellsbury, the moment the ink dried. Also, while not here, the Yankee fans I know in other circles loathed the Andrew Miller Indiaans/Cubs Chapman/Beltran Ranger deals, in fear of a rebuild. Phelps/Prado for Eovaldi seemed neutral enough on both fanbase reactions.

 

[bosockboy]

Lost in this, there’s a pretty clear opening for the Browns to take over that division for the first time since the late 80’s.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Only lesson is to not trap yourselves into guarantees that destroy your cap in the event you have to get rid of the player.

That, and superstar players have more power to get out of situations they don't like than some front offices think.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Brown created the mess, and turns out he held more cards in the endgame than the Steelers did (good job NFLPA). Lesson to be learned is a.) don’t draft a diva WR, b.) if you do add a diva WR to your team via draft or trade or FA, have a system in place they are willing to buy into, c.) if all else fails, get rid of your diva WR a year too early rather than a year too late.

Is there a question on the Wonderlic where you indicate you will turn into diva by checking a box or should you just never draft a WR? Was there something I'm not aware of that happened at Central Michigan? What am I missing here?

 

[tims4wins]

Right. He became a diva. He wasn’t a diva as a 6th rd pick out of a nowhere school / conference.

 

[dcmissle]

Lost in this, there’s a pretty clear opening for the Browns to take over that division for the first time since the late 80’s.

Especially if Lamar Jackson remains next season what he was this season, though I expect improvement.

I will give Dorsey the benefit of the doubt, but I am wondering why you send Kevin Zeitler to NY after finally getting some stability in o line performance.

 

[snowmanny]

Oh man, thanks a million; where do you want me to send a check made out to you with crooked numbers? Beautiful...…….."The third round pick is really a second round pick"...…………..no, it's a third round pick...……….just like when the Patriots draft 32nd in the first round, it's not an early 2nd round pick, it's a first round pick.

Yes you’re right here’s post 16:

Raiders have 2nd pick in round 3 and 3rd pick in round 5, so almost like a 2nd and 4th

I’d like to tell them it’s not like getting the Oakland 2nd and 4th. Or even the Pittsburgh 2nd and 4th. But it’s kind of like if they got the Pats 2nd and 4th.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Lost in this, there’s a pretty clear opening for the Browns to take over that division for the first time since the late 80’s.

Are you discounting the chances of last season's division winners?

 

[bosockboy]

Are you discounting the chances of last season's division winners?

I’d take the next 5 years of the Browns pretty easily. 80 million in cap space and 8 picks in first 5 rounds this year.

 

[RedOctober3829]

There's some Twitter buzz about Bell going to the Ravens. Now, THAT would be something.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I’m looking at potential trade-up opportunities because I wouldn’t be shocked if the Pats trade-up for someone this year and that someone is TJ Hockenson or Noah Fant. I don’t think any of the best edge or IDL guys drop. These types of moves help shake out who might be a trade partner. I would imagine Oakland now would like some later round picks. It might only take a 3rd and a 6th to jump up to 24 or 27.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I’m looking at potential trade-up opportunities because I wouldn’t be shocked if the Pats trade-up for someone this year and that someone is TJ Hockenson or Noah Fant. I don’t think any of the best edge or IDL guys drop. These types of moves help shake out who might be a trade partner. I would imagine Oakland now would like some later round picks. It might only take a 3rd and a 6th to jump up to 24 or 27.

I would kill to find a way to pair Bennett with Christian Wilkins. But he seems to be settling in the top 15-20 range.