I think generally the comparisons revolved around BB's statement during that year that the team just didn't have what it took. And some folks are wondering if the same is true of this team.
2020 Pats: How Does the Season End?
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Pretty sure we know what we need to about the Stidham evaluation based on them carrying Kessler for so long.
Also agree I’m not sure why the roster needs a reboot. They need a TE, a WR and better offensive line play, which hopefully Andrews is able to help with. Prior seasons it was usually the defense that needed plugs; we aren’t used to the offense needing it since what 2006?
No Welker in 2009 playoff game. No Welker in 2019 playoff game. Analogy fits.
The ‘09 team was kind of the bridge and probably one of the best seasons to be in a shit division. BB’s quote was in can’t get this team to play the way I need them to’ or something along those lines. Welker and Moss had big years but otherwise they didn’t have much for options and they had a shit running game; pretty sure that was the year we saw BB in the room saying, not quoting but essentially, ‘if they take out moss and Welker we’re fucked’ . They had enough in a weaker conference to get there but alas, didn’t seem to have the heart. And when Welker blew his knee in a meaningless game, well, they were screwed six ways from Sunday.
With your permission I would like to start courting this post. We will go on many dates and I will treat it with the respect it deserves. We will eventually marry and procreate over and over again.
As annoyed as I am today, the lone bright spot to me is wondering what Felger and Mazz must be like today.
I really feel badly for those two trolls; if and when this dynasty ends, what are those two nitwits going to do to fill airtime anyway?
Despite some of the compelling arguments here as why this is going to end with a loss, I keep going back to believing this team, this QB and this coach will find a way.
And yes, don't get me wrong, yesterday was bad, horrendously bad as a matter of fact, inexcusably bad as well, but sorry, the Tennessee fucking Titans and RyanTannehill do not scare me, nor does Andy Reid and the Chiefs, they were loaded last year, a wagon really and the Patriots went to KC and knocked them off.
And yeah, I get it, a year later, Brady is hurt, Edelman is hurt, Andrews and Brown and Develin are gone/on IR, Gronkowski retired, but sorry, the Chiefs do not scare me.
Baltimore is a giant X factor, who knows how Jackson will handle the playoffs.
As the saying goes, survive and advance fellas.
Sack up, let's go and holy smokes, just imagine the reaction if they get to and win another Super Bowl, it will be incredible.
Regardless, as a life long Patriots fan (it began in 1968), the last 19 years have been incredible, beyond my wildest dreams, all I ever wanted was for them to actually get to a Super Bowl and once that box was checked (checked twice actually), from there all I ever wanted was to win just ONE, one and I'd be thrilled.
That one and five more, now all I want is seven, all time wins leader, the all time greatest run in team history.
Make it happen, make it so.
It begins Saturday night......................
I really feel badly for those two trolls; if and when this dynasty ends, what are those two nitwits going to do to fill airtime anyway?
Despite some of the compelling arguments here as why this is going to end with a loss, I keep going back to believing this team, this QB and this coach will find a way.
And yes, don't get me wrong, yesterday was bad, horrendously bad as a matter of fact, inexcusably bad as well, but sorry, the Tennessee fucking Titans and RyanTannehill do not scare me, nor does Andy Reid and the Chiefs, they were loaded last year, a wagon really and the Patriots went to KC and knocked them off.
And yeah, I get it, a year later, Brady is hurt, Edelman is hurt, Andrews and Brown and Develin are gone/on IR, Gronkowski retired, but sorry, the Chiefs do not scare me.
Baltimore is a giant X factor, who knows how Jackson will handle the playoffs.
As the saying goes, survive and advance fellas.
Sack up, let's go and holy smokes, just imagine the reaction if they get to and win another Super Bowl, it will be incredible.
Regardless, as a life long Patriots fan (it began in 1968), the last 19 years have been incredible, beyond my wildest dreams, all I ever wanted was for them to actually get to a Super Bowl and once that box was checked (checked twice actually), from there all I ever wanted was to win just ONE, one and I'd be thrilled.
That one and five more, now all I want is seven, all time wins leader, the all time greatest run in team history.
Make it happen, make it so.
It begins Saturday night......................
It's not unreasonable to think this team should move on from Brady.
That's not a tear down and rebuild scenario. The team was 12-4 this year with average production from QB. If they could find a way to improve QB production, they could be as good or better next year. Especially if they can also find another upgrade or two on offense.
It's also not unreasonable to think they should keep running it back with Brady until he's done beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Reasonable fans can disagree.
That's not a tear down and rebuild scenario. The team was 12-4 this year with average production from QB. If they could find a way to improve QB production, they could be as good or better next year. Especially if they can also find another upgrade or two on offense.
It's also not unreasonable to think they should keep running it back with Brady until he's done beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Reasonable fans can disagree.
That's a pretty big if. There are franchises that spend a decade looking for average or better QB play.
Yeah, I just trust Belichick to do it a lot faster. He also won 11 games with Matt Cassell and drafted Jimmy G. I feel like he'll figure something out.
Belichick also drafted Kevin O'Connell, Ryan Mallett, and Rohan Davey and spent years in CLE trying unsuccessfully to find a guy.
If Stidham isn't the guy, it might take 2-3 years to find a QB, and by then the defense they've built might be unrecognizable.
And whom do you suggest they replace him with? Cam Newton? Otherwise I’m not seeing many options...
His rating has sucked because of the o line play, no TE and his WRs generally being shitty. He’s shown no signs of actual physical decline, a la Manning throwing wounded ducks his last season. That throw he made to Sanu yesterday was maybe the best I can think of since the Falcons SB on that sideline throw to Mitchell.
Unless one of us swoops in and steals dogmans beautiful post while you await permission.
In all seriousness the odds against the Patriots are large. However of all the teams/coaching staffs in the playoffs, New England probably is at the top of the list in terms of squads who can overcome their many impediments to the Superbowl.
Put it this way - if you are a fan of any of the other playoff teams, do you really relish playing a clearly flawed Patriot team for the chance to advance? Perhaps but I know I wouldn't be too confident about it, even if you root for KC or Baltimore.
I also suspect that this concern extends to opposing players and whether its its justified or not, there is value to the mythology.
I think this season is a moral victory if they can get to the AFCCG since it means going through KC in KC, who they absolutely can beat on their best day, and basically did earlier this year, but seems like it'll be brutal if they have to slugfest it out next Saturday. The hope dream and a prayer is somehow Houston or Buffalo can pull a miracle in Baltimore (with the added bonus that they'll know if they're playing to host the AFCCG before the KC game kicks off) and then who knows. Seems unlikely, but this league makes no sense.
Brady is getting little help from receivers but his accuracy has been shit for the most part. Tons of high throws on short to intermediate passes. Don't know if it is injury or age related decline but he was pretty bad yesterday and most of the second half of the season BUF being the lone outlier.
Why would age related decline affect accuracy on short or intermediate passes? Unless it’s a cognitive or reflex issue. I bet Montana could still make those throws. It’s got to be an injury or mental.
Okay, I don’t know whether to believe all that talk about purposely playing vanilla, but you have my attention.
One thing I think you forgot in this story is that the league will inevitably announce an absurdly harsh Spygate 2 punishment on the eve of the AFCCG, which will put the team securely in FU mode.
I think you would have been OK if you had limited it to the NFL. But you didn't.
Otherwise, you need look only about 40 miles northeast of Gillette to find a professional rival. I think they wear green and white.
And there are all sorts of amateur rivals.
Probably not at the velocity needed to fit them into tight windows. Perhaps he is putting extra oomph on his throws and losing some mechanics as a result? Certainly could be injury as well, I mentioned that in my post.
I mean we all (well mostly all of us as we have other NBA fans) love the Cs and their history, but that was 50-60 years ago and in a much different era of sports.I think you would have been OK if you had limited it to the NFL. But you didn't.
Otherwise, you need look only about 40 miles northeast of Gillette to find a professional rival. I think they wear green and white.
And there are all sorts of amateur rivals.
The Cs, Canadiens, NYY dynasties all occurred in different times with different rules. The Pats run is unprecedented in modern sports and is unlikely to be recreated in a modern sports environment.
THose supporting saying 'move on from TB" - the question is to whom? The top 10 QBs in the league are on a different level than the next 20. Finding one is exceedingly difficult.
Will give you JG, whom they drafted groomed and traded, but over the years the Pats have drafted many QBs and either they washed out or went elsewhere and did nothing. (And my god we don't need to rehash the JG argument, he couldn't have stuck around, and since TB has been to the last 4/5 SB, asking BB to move on from him at that point is silly).
Yes 42 yr old TB is approaching the end, yes we need a succession plan. Maybe Stidham is that guy. I think TB's elbow this year is a larger problem than his age tho. Plus ya know the O line.
I doubt any other teams are thrilled to face TB / BB and the Pats in the playoffs. Hell just last year Mahomes and KC were the anointed ones and then the Pats went to KC and beat them.
edit- and shit McVay and the Rams were the NFC future!!!! How has that worked out. We can ask them on the golf course this week
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Not sure where to put this, but here's as good a place as any I guess. Edelman appears to be hurt pretty bad. He's gutting it out. So can we just take a moment an appreciate that guy? Playing beat up this year, at times basically the only weapon in Brady's arsenal, at 33 years of age, put up this stat line this year:
100 rec (his 2nd most ever), 1,117 yds (his most ever), 11.2 ypc, 6 td (his 2nd most ever)
Plus a 47-yard TD pass!
I was watching the 2011 AFCCG (well it happened in 2012) between Baltimore and NE, and the Pats had Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, and Edelman, along with Branch and Woodhead. Lawfirm and Ridley at RB as well. That team was LOADED, though Edelman hadn't become EDELMAN yet.
100 rec (his 2nd most ever), 1,117 yds (his most ever), 11.2 ypc, 6 td (his 2nd most ever)
Plus a 47-yard TD pass!
I was watching the 2011 AFCCG (well it happened in 2012) between Baltimore and NE, and the Pats had Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, and Edelman, along with Branch and Woodhead. Lawfirm and Ridley at RB as well. That team was LOADED, though Edelman hadn't become EDELMAN yet.
We've posted about the similarities to 2015 a bunch, but one thing not mentioned was that Edelman was also hurt in 2015. He came back for the playoff games, but I think his foot was still semi broken. He played pretty well against KC (10 catches on 16 targets for 100 yards) but seemed to have less in the tank against Denver (7 catches on 13 targets for 53 yards).
Last three weeks, the OL has been solid.
Rushing:
at Cin: 32-175 (5.5)
vs Buf: 35-143 (4.1)
vs Mia: 27-135 (5.0)
TOT: 94 att, 453 yds, 4.8 ypc
Passing:
at Cin: 2 sacks, 6 QB hits
vs But: 0 sacks, 4 QB hits
vs Mia: 1 sack, 3 QB hits
TOT: 3 sacks, 13 QB hits
Let's hope the line keeps up its solid play. It'll be a key if they want to do anything in the playoffs.
Rushing:
at Cin: 32-175 (5.5)
vs Buf: 35-143 (4.1)
vs Mia: 27-135 (5.0)
TOT: 94 att, 453 yds, 4.8 ypc
Passing:
at Cin: 2 sacks, 6 QB hits
vs But: 0 sacks, 4 QB hits
vs Mia: 1 sack, 3 QB hits
TOT: 3 sacks, 13 QB hits
Let's hope the line keeps up its solid play. It'll be a key if they want to do anything in the playoffs.
With a whimper -- a loss in cold conditions at Arrowhead.
I'm laughing at the poster who said the Patriots are using bland playcalls by design. The Patriots have absolutely been throwing everything at opponents. From trick plays that have Julian Edelman throwing passes, to Mohammad Sanu pitch plays, to James White fake screens, they've been trying. And they've been losing.
The defense believed in their own hype with the Boogeyman bullshit, and since then they have been middle of the pack. There is no faith in special teams. Offense is below average.
This team is good enough to win at home vs Tennessee, but they blew a serious SB opportunity by losing to Miami. I'm honored to finally be able to witness the death of a 19 year dynasty.
I'm laughing at the poster who said the Patriots are using bland playcalls by design. The Patriots have absolutely been throwing everything at opponents. From trick plays that have Julian Edelman throwing passes, to Mohammad Sanu pitch plays, to James White fake screens, they've been trying. And they've been losing.
The defense believed in their own hype with the Boogeyman bullshit, and since then they have been middle of the pack. There is no faith in special teams. Offense is below average.
This team is good enough to win at home vs Tennessee, but they blew a serious SB opportunity by losing to Miami. I'm honored to finally be able to witness the death of a 19 year dynasty.
Yeah, they going all out and they’re throwing everything they’ve got at teams. They’re just not very good. Need turnover luck in the playoffs.
Turnovers are a concern. The D (probably a couple ST as well) forced 29 turnovers in the first 11 games, including 1 in each game, 7 multi-turnover games, and 4 games with at least 4. The last 5 games, they've forced 7 total turnovers, including 3 games with zero, 1 with 2, and 1 with 5 (Cincinnati). Two of the three zero-turnover games (Houston and Miami) were probably the two worst games by the pass D.
There is a chance not a single word of this is true. But for the next week, or two, or four, I choose to believe every fucking word. Tom Fucking Brady. The greatest player of all time. He plays for our fucking team. Let’s. Fucking. Go.
I'm with Dogman.
You either believe the Belichick chess/checkers thing or you don't. If you're a 3D chess guy, which I am, I expect Bill to show Baltimore and KC - their obvious playoff opponents - a game plan which is totally different from the reg season games, losses be damned, we're making the playoffs anyway. The Miami game seemed to be a tired team, expecting them to lay down. Whatever.
Manny used to intentionally whiff in spring training on pitches he wanted to see in the real season. I suspect the Pats did the same thing to the AFC. Or maybe they're playing checkers, who knows?
I expect a Titans win, a KC win in KC, and a tough game in the Patriots annual AFCG.
You either believe the Belichick chess/checkers thing or you don't. If you're a 3D chess guy, which I am, I expect Bill to show Baltimore and KC - their obvious playoff opponents - a game plan which is totally different from the reg season games, losses be damned, we're making the playoffs anyway. The Miami game seemed to be a tired team, expecting them to lay down. Whatever.
Manny used to intentionally whiff in spring training on pitches he wanted to see in the real season. I suspect the Pats did the same thing to the AFC. Or maybe they're playing checkers, who knows?
I expect a Titans win, a KC win in KC, and a tough game in the Patriots annual AFCG.
He is very handsome. Just ask @Dogman2 .
And that’s a good looking man, himself—even before training for Iditarod support for his brother—so he would know.
A poster above definitively stated that the Patriots were absolutely trying everything in their playbook and it wasn't working. How are you able to ignore these hard facts in making your post?
I believe the checkers/chess thing BUT with the caveat that competitors ALWAYS go all in to win. TB12/BB are no different. I do believe some schemes and wrinkles are withheld at certain times but I can't convince myself that this team is going to flip a switch and play at a level they haven't attained over the second half. I think they are banged up and a weapon or two short on offense. Tenn is going to be a tall order and a tough game. I won't be surprised with almost any result on Sat. I think it will take a significant break(s) to win at KC...def TD, ST TD, multiple turnovers from KC, etc. IF they get to Baltimore...well, who knows but BB just might have something cooked up for that Raven's QB. I love this team. LFG!!!!!
If something is always true, how is that a caveat?
Should we include other caveats like gravity and the linearity of our experience of time and the fact that witchcraft isn’t real?
I’m really not clear on what you’re saying here?
Christ, I come in here to talk some football and I find myself in an existential debate about God, witchcraft and crackpot science. I love this place.
Closed-minded gravitists cannot find a way to make Einstein's general relativity match up with the subatomic quantum world. Anti-falling "scientists" been trying to do it for the better part of a century now, and despite all their empirical observation and carefully compiled data, they still don't know how.
We'll see shortly if the last 6 games Pats resemble the playoff Pats. They morphed into a defensive beast last year and we didn't' see it coming. I suspect we're about to see some offense we didn't think they were capable of as of yesterday and the D will revert to verygood to excellent. If that happens, then I believe they were sandbagging down the stretch.
Oh I actually agree. But the other poster stated their view as if it were an undisputed set of facts.
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