I just wonder why, with all our cap space, we didn't scoop up Fournette...or Ghost for that matter. It seemed then and now we would be better with one or both.
It seems Fournette was only interested in one place.I just wonder why, with all our cap space, we didn't scoop up Fournette...
Yup. Doesn’t really have any wiggle so dumpoffs to Michel just aren’t effective even if he actually catches them. It’s why I find Burkhead to be the most interesting RB we have because he is the only one who is an equal threat at running and receiving.I think the lack of explosiveness and lack of receiving ability go hand-in-hand in some ways. They have guys like White and Burkhead who can line up in the slot and catch a slant against a LB; they don't need Michel to have that skill set. But you can't even throw a dumpoff in the flat or a screen for Sony, because he's not the least bit dynamic in space.
BGJE's best years, yes. Not his average year, but I certainly take your point. And really, it's why teams should never - unless there's a game-changing talent there - take running backs high in the draft. It's just too easy to find a decent replacement.Sadly, BJGE was actually more productive than what we're seeing last year and so far this year from Sony.
I just don’t understand how his injuries have sapped him of what he had at UGA. He’s had some ankle, knee, etc. issues but nothing really catastrophic. I don’t get it.Last year Sony ranked near the bottom of the league for yards after contact and broken tackles.
This year for RBs who have at least 13 carries (so 100 carries+ in a full 16 game season) he is 33rd of 48 for yards after contact at 1.9 which is worse than last year (small sample size obviously), and 41st out of 48 with 0 broken tackles. The line didn't help him last game but given how bad he is as a receiver the only thing he can hang his hat on is pass pro. He's not a special back. Typically as a back you have 2 ways of winning. You either win with power, elusiveness, or a combination of both. Start-stop, athletic traits help too. Sony offers you nothing special. He isn't powerful. He isn't explosive. He doesn't have great start-stop. He isn't athletic now that his injuries have sapped him of that. He is not elusive. Bring on Harris.
Statistics courtesy of Sports Info Solutions.
You and me both. I remember watching him in Athens (my partner is a UGA alum and we visit the family once a year during college football season to catch a game) and thinking if the Patriots got him or Chubb we'd have an offensive weapon. What I didn't realize was by getting Sony he was only offensive to expectations. I Greek oracled myself.I just don’t understand how his injuries have sapped him of what he had at UGA. He’s had some ankle, knee, etc. issues but nothing really catastrophic. I don’t get it.
It really is. I was so fired up when we got him. He was a different type of back than we’d really had under BB other than maybe early Maroney. But, for whatever reason, he’s turned into a complete plodder out there. No explosion. Zero elusiveness (admittedly never a huge part of his game). Zero pass catching ability. His 2018 version wasn’t as explosive as UGA but he was still quite good, especially in the playoffs. And even that guy is seemingly gone forever. Still only 25. His contract may protect him next year but I don’t anticipate that he’ll be employed in the NFL in 2022.You and me both. I remember watching him in Athens (my partner is a UGA alum and we visit the family once a year during college football season to catch a game) and thinking if the Patriots got him or Chubb we'd have an offensive weapon. What I didn't realize was by getting Sony he was only offensive to expectations. I Greek oracled myself.
If you look at his college tape he's so much more explosive. It's sad.
See I think more Ridley than Maroney. Ridley was stronger, Maroney was faster. I thought Sony was in that speed / power blend. Ridley was really good for the Pats until he got hurt.It really is. I was so fired up when we got him. He was a different type of back than we’d really had under BB other than maybe early Maroney. But, for whatever reason, he’s turned into a complete plodder out there. No explosion. Zero elusiveness (admittedly never a huge part of his game). Zero pass catching ability. His 2018 version wasn’t as explosive as UGA but he was still quite good, especially in the playoffs. And even that guy is seemingly gone forever. Still only 25. His contract may protect him next year but I don’t anticipate that he’ll be employed in the NFL in 2022.
My eyes tell me you were right but I wonder how much of that was just better blocking in 2018.It really is. I was so fired up when we got him. He was a different type of back than we’d really had under BB other than maybe early Maroney. But, for whatever reason, he’s turned into a complete plodder out there. No explosion. Zero elusiveness (admittedly never a huge part of his game). Zero pass catching ability. His 2018 version wasn’t as explosive as UGA but he was still quite good, especially in the playoffs. And even that guy is seemingly gone forever. Still only 25. His contract may protect him next year but I don’t anticipate that he’ll be employed in the NFL in 2022.
The blocking of that 2018 offense, -- OL + TE's + FB -- was simply ungodly, by the time the end of the season rolled around and on into the playoffs.My eyes tell me you were right but I wonder how much of that was just better blocking in 2018.
His yards after contact in both 2018 and 2019 were the same, 2.4. His broken tackle rate was also almost the same 2018: 11%, 2019: 10.9%.
We've rehashed this over and over but they lost Gronk, Allen, Develin, Andrews, and a starting LT (for the majority of the season with Wynn out) from 2018 to 2019. Plus Mason and Cannon were worse (possibly as a side effect of the personnel changes). Blocking was without a doubt worse.My eyes tell me you were right but I wonder how much of that was just better blocking in 2018.
His yards after contact in both 2018 and 2019 were the same, 2.4. His broken tackle rate was also almost the same 2018: 11%, 2019: 10.9%.
Yeah Ridley may be a better comp. He was a good RB before the injuries.See I think more Ridley than Maroney. Ridley was stronger, Maroney was faster. I thought Sony was in that speed / power blend. Ridley was really good for the Pats until he got hurt.
Edit: of course, Ridley was a 3rd round pick. When you think of the success the Pats have had in that range with guys like Ridley, White, Vereen... it makes me even more mad they wasted a 1st on Sony.
Agreed. They won #6. Sony scored 6 TDs in 3 games. Maybe anyone could have done that. But the playoff run alone makes me not totally regret the pick.Yeah Ridley may be a better comp. He was a good RB before the injuries.
You never know how things work out with a different RB in there (I think many could have replicated Sony’s success given the blocking) so you take the title any day of the week and deal with the related disappointment now but there were a lot of intriguing guys we missed out on:
Nick Chubb
Darius Leonard
Courtland Sutton
Harold Landry
Dallas Goedert
Too bad.
I watched him zero in college, but going back and reading a couple of pre-draft scouting reports on him, there are some ominous notes about how he was able to both power through and elude second level players against the Vanderbilts and weaker OOC opponents, but against the metal of the SEC he had a lot of runs where he got exactly what was blocked by his massive O Line, and nothing moreYou and me both. I remember watching him in Athens (my partner is a UGA alum and we visit the family once a year during college football season to catch a game) and thinking if the Patriots got him or Chubb we'd have an offensive weapon. What I didn't realize was by getting Sony he was only offensive to expectations. I Greek oracled myself.
If you look at his college tape he's so much more explosive. It's sad.
He had 11 carries for 181 yards and 3 TDs in the Rose Bowl against Oklahoma that year which included a 75 yard TD. That that 75 yarder out and he averaged 10 yards a carry against a top flight team. So he had explosiveness at UGA and it's now gone. It's a big mystery.I watched him zero in college, but going back and reading a couple of pre-draft scouting reports on him, there are some ominous notes about how he was able to both power through and elude second level players against the Vanderbilts and weaker OOC opponents, but against the metal of the SEC he had a lot of runs where he got exactly what was blocked by his massive O Line, and nothing more
My understanding (from reading Bill Polian's book, for example), is that medical staff is basically a binary signoff: can he play, or not? Sony has been able to play 35 out of 38 career games (counting playoffs), so it was probably the right call from that standpoint. He wasn't showing dropoff down the stretch in his last year in college; it was probably unfortunate timing as much as anything.Sony has degenerative chronic issues in the cartilage of the knee he blew out in high school. He's had at least two arthroscopic procedures since being drafted.
I haven't read the Patriots forums much at all over the past few years, but I assume this has been discussed at length.
I have no idea what the medical staff was thinking when we drafted him; maybe it was hubris on their part that they could overcome it? Maybe they overthought it and believed they were buying low? Or maybe BB got a crush on him for some reason and wouldn't be talked down?
This is likely just a dead horse beating, but I can't see how the Michel pick wasn't a complete failure in judgment.
They also really really needed a running back for 2018/2019, especially since it was the end of the brady era, so using a late first to fill that pretty big need makes a lot more sense than it might in other circumstances.Running backs are fungible. The average career is basically three seasons and most of those who careers last longer either become specialists (third-down backs, pile pushers, pass catchers) or are outliers like Gore or AP.
They got a stellar postseason run out of Sony, so it's all good. You can rightly argue that he wasn't worth the first, but if you don't pick him, do they get that Super Bowl?
Just to put names on it, from last year's top 25 rushers you had:We're not in an era where you routinely get an Orlandis Gary popping off for 1400 yards Right now almost all of the top 25 or so backs in the league are picked in two top rounds. The careers are pretty short, but you're also highly unlikely to get a league average or better back without devoting real draft capital to the proposition.
Right--which means 20 out of 25 are first and second round picks. It's not impossible to get a good back after that but good backs do generally get picked up high.Just to put names on it, from last year's top 25 rushers you had:
Carson, 7th round
Mack, 4th round
Montgomery, 3rd round
Jones, 5th round
Lindsay, UDFA
and at #26 Drake, 3rd round
All depends on what you mean by "hasn't worked out". He's played 31 regular season and 4 postseason games for NE (35 total), and started 28 of them. He's accumulated 1,899 regular season and 397 postseason rushing yards (2,296), to go along with 20 total rushing touchdowns. He was an instrumental part of a SB champion.Sony hasn't worked out but what can you do? It seems draft picks are always a dice roll, even for 1st rounders.
He was a big part of NE's last Lombardi and in a way, that is good enough for me. Now let the Harris era begin.
This probably isn't a lot different from any other position, if you get right down to it. Among the 2019 top-25 receivers, you've got several third-rounders (Chris Godwin, Travis Kelce, Keenan Allen, Michael Gallup, John Brown, Tyler Lockett) and a handful of guys drafted later (Stefon Diggs, Julian Edelman, George Kittle).Just to put names on it, from last year's top 25 rushers you had:
Carson, 7th round
Mack, 4th round
Montgomery, 3rd round
Jones, 5th round
Lindsay, UDFA
and at #26 Drake, 3rd round
He wouldn't go in the first round if we redrafted 2018, that seems pretty certain.All depends on what you mean by "hasn't worked out". He's played 31 regular season and 4 postseason games for NE (35 total), and started 28 of them. He's accumulated 1,899 regular season and 397 postseason rushing yards (2,296), to go along with 20 total rushing touchdowns. He was an instrumental part of a SB champion.
Do we wish for more from a 1st round pick? Absolutely. But I don't know that I'd say he "hasn't worked out".
Yeah, that's too bad - Andrews is super important, and Uche, well, I was hoping for something north of the first couple of Derek Rivers years...Andrews and Uche to the IR, per Reiss and others
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1309954512279482375
Good news is it is only 3 weeks. So they'll both be able to return after the week 6 bye.Yeah, that's too bad - Andrews is super important, and Uche, well, I was hoping for something north of the first couple of Derek Rivers years...
Retroactive is only in baseball. The Pats have a bye in week 6 anyway so it doesn't matter too much. But yeah seems like they should have put him on IR last week so he could come back in week 5. But whatever. Get to 3-2 and get healthy,Can Uche be retroactive? Does it matter? Has he had a setback?
I wonder what the corresponding roster moves will be.
Its interesting that he wasn't on the report on Wednesday, popped up on Thursday as Limited Participation. Then went to IR.Retroactive is only in baseball. The Pats have a bye in week 6 anyway so it doesn't matter too much. But yeah seems like they should have put him on IR last week so he could come back in week 5. But whatever. Get to 3-2 and get healthy,
Especially since he was on the report last weekIts interesting that he wasn't on the report on Wednesday, popped up on Thursday as Limited Participation. Then went to IR.
It's all injuries. And he's had plenty of them.He had 11 carries for 181 yards and 3 TDs in the Rose Bowl against Oklahoma that year which included a 75 yard TD. That that 75 yarder out and he averaged 10 yards a carry against a top flight team. So he had explosiveness at UGA and it's now gone. It's a big mystery.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/michael-pinckney/32195049-4e13-8430-21ac-aacc57de3b49He's physical and plays with decent instincts, but he's an average athlete and doesn't play with enough control or balance from snap to snap. He's been solid at Miami, but his ceiling might be as a backup linebacker and special-teams contributor as a pro.
The Patriots released wide receiver Mason Kinsey from their practice squad and replaced him with veteran offensive lineman Jordan Roos, who played 14 games with the Seattle Seahawks from 2017 to 2019.
Roos came into the NFL undrafted out of Purdue. He spent training camp with the Las Vegas Raiders.
Sheer poetry.I'd make a run at Auden Tate. Has fallen out of flavor in Cincinnati and could probably be had for a late round pick. Still a lot of potential.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the film crew that filmed Bengals sideline are not team employees, correct?That forfeited third pick really bugs me. People can whine about BB's drafting all they want, but this is now the fourth pick they've lost: two first rounders, a fourth rounder, and now this third rounder (which obviously isn't a factor in BB's past drafts).
All for utterly stupid (or nonexistent) stuff.
IIRC, one of the cameramen was contracted out by the Patriots to do the filming for the Youtube series that the Pats were producing.Correct me if I'm wrong, but the film crew that filmed Bengals sideline are not team employees, correct?
If so, why did the organization get punished for that?
Apologies if I am wrong about this, but I thought that was the case.
Thanks for the clarification/explanation.IIRC, one of the cameramen was contracted out by the Patriots to do the filming for the Youtube series that the Pats were producing.
In any event, neither of them were part of the team's football operations, nor had been directed by the team's football operations division (which are all under Belichick). However, the team's film/PR department is still under Kraft & Kraft and is considered part of the Patriots organization.
It was indeed wrong for Goodell to punish the football operation for a minor mistake made by an organization completely outside football operations. At the same time, Belichick's earlier filming violations and his ignoring the memo from the league office 13 years ago (!) did put the team into this situation to some extent.