Facts except I think you mean 20 of 36 games which makes the data somewhat more valid. That said, from Hollinger's Athletic piece yesterday.
2022-2023 General Celtics thread
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
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That wasn’t garbage from Hyland that’s his game. He’s a very unique but effective scorer.
Much like the Grizz (Adams/JJJ), the Celtic's defense is best when they go Double BIGs.
Starting Rob with Al would also turn up the JAYs transition baskets with the improved rebounding
Starting Rob with Al would also turn up the JAYs transition baskets with the improved rebounding
Bones only had 5 points with Hauser covering him
I think he traveled on this one
Definitely a garbage bucket here
Thanks for that. I still come across Professor's reels here and there. Tatum's memory is remarkable.
What a great job identifying this guy as the guy back then. I saw a couple of mocks that had him #5.
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Tatum has been getting a LOT of national facetime lately and I think I like him more every time I see him speak. He comes across as really authentic, thoughtful, and as a dude who LOVES basketball.
With some of the ref-badgering on court, I’m sometimes not sure about him, but he’s really growing on me.
The Celtics seem to have become a pick and choose their spots kind of team, and this roadtrip is one that they decided to mail in fron the jump.
That's OK... as long as they can flip the switch when they need to. Not fun to watch though.
That's OK... as long as they can flip the switch when they need to. Not fun to watch though.
Playing hard is a habit, and developing the habit of not playing hard is sometimes hard to break. I'm a skeptic of the "flip the switch" theory, I just don't think people are really wired like that.
Too many early season press clippings fawning over them sometimes backfires.
Even the best teams are going to mail it in a dozen times a year. Espeically these next couple months that are the dog days of the NBA season.
I agree with this. As tough as that was to stomach, it amounts to one loss in the standings during an early January road trip. It does feel like their style of play means that when shots aren't falling they are prone to getting run and maybe there is something to them getting every team's best shot too.
Oh, he's a masochist. It all makes sense now.
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1610483478247936000
"It may not be the most popular thing to say but you gotta go through some s**t if you wanna get to where you wanna get to." Joe Mazzulla talks about levels of concern after the C's give up 150 points
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1610483478247936000
"It may not be the most popular thing to say but you gotta go through some s**t if you wanna get to where you wanna get to." Joe Mazzulla talks about levels of concern after the C's give up 150 points
How has nobody replied to this? George has some serious regrets in his career about bouncing around. A quote like this should go a long way for guys like Tatum and Brown.
One more thing about last night's performance. The Celtics were down 20pts at halftime (74-54) with OKC shooting 35% from 3. So we shouldn't do any revisionist history by saying OKC's 50% 3pt shooting at the end was some sort of lucky, unsustainable offense from the Thunder. They got anywhere and everywhere they wanted. OKC dictated they wanted to launch wide-open 3s in the 2nd half and they did.
We shouldn't expect the defense to be as good as last season, with offense up across the NBA. BUT this team needs to return to double BIGs starting lineup. And if Brad is going shopping I hope it is for defensive help in the form of a 3rd BIG or sWING
We shouldn't expect the defense to be as good as last season, with offense up across the NBA. BUT this team needs to return to double BIGs starting lineup. And if Brad is going shopping I hope it is for defensive help in the form of a 3rd BIG or sWING
He does? That quote above certainly doesn't tell that story to me. And I also wouldn't consider 3 teams in 13 years bouncing around
Agreed. Last night's loss had nothing to do with OKC shooting the lights out. They didn't match OKC's effort/energy and their defense was terrible. They mailed it in; it happens over a long season. A trend I do find concerning though is that they can't get up for a game when their shots don't fall. They get cold from the field and everything else collapses.
Also agree on the 2-big line up. In Denver, when they started the 2nd half with Grant, the team's defense improved. Unfortunately, they could dig themselves out of the 1Q hole. And I've been ranting about the need for a 3rd big for a while now and I hope they pick one up in a buy out (I can't see a trade that makes sense).
Tatum fucked around and got a triple double.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqmP3mhdCnM&list=PLlVlyGVtvuVkAiuNG6gXxaUgjekofxxgs&index=1&ab_channel=NBA
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqmP3mhdCnM&list=PLlVlyGVtvuVkAiuNG6gXxaUgjekofxxgs&index=1&ab_channel=NBA
You know in the preseason, when a starter goes out, looks sharp, and there are still 2 games left? Everyone is like "ok, shut him down, we've seen enough, nothing more to show here, he's good to go."
That's how I feel about the Celtics' regular season now. I'm extremely confident that you could throw any playoff opponent at them, they would prep well, execute the game plan, and play hard for the 7-game series. They consistently have gameplanned and executed very well against good opponents this year, with the exception of the Denver game.
I do not feel that away about any given regular season game the rest of the way......and that's fine?
I get that seeding matters to get a good bracket, but who knows what the bracket will be now. Heck, getting the 2 or 3 seed might mean Knicks or Pacers instead of the Heat.
I hereby resolve to not freak out when they lay eggs, enjoy a very good team, and pay more attention to the games against good opponents, because it's clear the Celtics do.
That's how I feel about the Celtics' regular season now. I'm extremely confident that you could throw any playoff opponent at them, they would prep well, execute the game plan, and play hard for the 7-game series. They consistently have gameplanned and executed very well against good opponents this year, with the exception of the Denver game.
I do not feel that away about any given regular season game the rest of the way......and that's fine?
I get that seeding matters to get a good bracket, but who knows what the bracket will be now. Heck, getting the 2 or 3 seed might mean Knicks or Pacers instead of the Heat.
I hereby resolve to not freak out when they lay eggs, enjoy a very good team, and pay more attention to the games against good opponents, because it's clear the Celtics do.
Yea that's fair. Need to break the NBA regular season into two. We'd like to see the C's pick up momentum/play their best after the All-Star break.
The most important things for this team pre-AS break:
1. Health - load manage/don't run TOP8 into the ground
2. Experiment with rotations/lineups
3. Seeding/record
4. Adding a piece via buyout or trade market
5. Develop good habits on OFF/DEF, don't want them to mail it in too much
Tatum became rich and famous very quickly, and that can take a guy in couple of different directions, yeah? He also found himself what appears to be an unexpected father, at age 19; his son was born Dec 7, 2017, the year he was drafted, and the birth mother was a high school ex that caused his college relationship to go sour.
This appears likely to be one of those potentially unsavory outcomes of being in a position such as Tatum was. At 19. And again, a person can go a some very different directions from there.
Tatum chose the direction of devoting himself to his som, buying his mom the apartment next to his, and putting her in charge of his salary and leaning on her to help raise his son; he lives (and frolicks) off endorsement income Gronk style. Indeed, he’s been explicit in how he feels OK being somewhat flamboyant in his wealth at times is precisely a function of the fiscal responsibility he has set for himself… from letting his mom control the lion’s share of his wealth. They’re actually pretty funny about it when asked, as she’d love to reign him in on the flamboyancy more, but what can she really say when he’s actually being so damned responsible!
And, part and parcel, he appears to be a very committed father. And we know this isn’t always the direction these things go. He’s far from bitter; he seems quite the opposite.
A few years ago, a poster here found themselves sitting next to Tatum’s mom and her partner and Deuce and had occasion to ask how they felt about then Coach Bras Stevens. IIRC, they indicated that they were very, very satisfied with the hands that Tatum was in. I think about that now and again, how Brad’s college experience might not have made him the guy to coach millionaires, but as far as overall personnel management of young men…
Anyway, yeah, everything in life is a crap shoot, but if you’ve gotta take your shots, Tatum seems like the kind of guy you build around.
I'd move 5 up. Way up. Defense in the NBA is about connectedness - making sure players know where there teammates are going to be and what help there is. The Cs defense started out mediocre and was better for a while but has gotten torched a few too many times for my liking over the last dozen or so games.
Particularly with Rob coming back, they are going to have to re-learn their defensive habits. In addition, the switch heavy defense means that individual defenders will have to be better at on the ball defense, particularly against a team that likes to create mismatches and exploit the mismatches - like OKC/ And like GSW.
As we've seen recently good 3pt shooters can run cold for extended periods, but defense always travels.
I'm a hair concerned that CJM hasn't returned TL to the starting lineup.
While White is an excellent defender, Rob is a complete lineup changer.
This is obviously partially in response to the recent criticism, but it's encouraging to read.
View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1611247729828675584?s=20&t=vD6C9HOfzsvRDDoiyyumLg
View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1611247729828675584?s=20&t=vD6C9HOfzsvRDDoiyyumLg
I was digging through some numbers earlier, and came across this, which caught my attention.
Celtics record in Tatum’s top 25 usage games is 21-4.
Their record in Jaylen’s top 25 usage games is 14-11.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628369/boxscores-advanced?dir=D&sort=USG_PCT
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627759/boxscores-advanced?dir=D&sort=USG_PCT
Celtics record in Tatum’s top 25 usage games is 21-4.
Their record in Jaylen’s top 25 usage games is 14-11.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628369/boxscores-advanced?dir=D&sort=USG_PCT
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627759/boxscores-advanced?dir=D&sort=USG_PCT
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At this point, there is zero chance that Jaylen makes an all-NBA team, right?. Guard play is just too good. Luka, Steph, Ja, SGA, Mitchell, Booker, Haliburton, probably a couple others are ahead of Brown too.
I thought he'd get looked at as a forward? He plays small forward for the Celtics in pretty much all lineups this year.
Of course, that's a tough group to crack as well.
The other forwards with a shot are Giannis, Tatum, Durant, LeBron, Siakam, Butler, Zion, George, DeRozan (is AD a C or a forward?).
Giannis, Tatum, Durant and LeBron are all locks, barring injury.
I think Jaylen passes George, DeRozan and Butler in voters' minds (stats + team quality), and then has to get by Siakam or Zion. Tough, but could happen if Zion misses games, or if voters want to ding Siakam for his team being crappy. LeBron missing games or shutting it down late could do it too.
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Yea not sure. He is listed as guard in All Star voting.
But as you said, he may even have a tougher time in the Forward category. And I feel like a fool that I left Dame off my list of guards.
Dame getting a spot over Jaylen would be a legacy pick. Their offensive numbers are similar (27/7/3 for Jaylen, 27/4/7 for Dame) and Dame is a slightly more efficient scorer, but Jaylen is miles ahead of him as a defender and is 11th in total minutes (while Dame has missed 1/3 of the season already). Jaylen being his teams #2 vs Dame being his teams #1 is cancelled out I think by the fact that Portland is 19-19 and will have to fight for the playoffs while Boston will be a top 3 pick with 50+ wins.
Durability is terminally underrated in year end award voting. That might hurt Brown this year, as it's hurt Tatum (especially Tatum) in years past.
I wasn't necessarily saying Dame should be over Jaylen, just that I should have mentioned him in the list of contenders. Kyrie should be on there too. And Harden
Basketball ref has Jaylen as a SF. I believe Tatum/Brown are viewed as Forwards around the league. Tatum was screwed by Guard/Forward confusion a few years ago, so it would be in Boston's best interest to subtly start a Tatum/Brown for All-NBA at Forward campaign after the All-Star game.
Brown is 5th highest in PPG amongst F (Giannis, Durant, Tatum, Bron).
NBA Media is convinced Jaylen is a good defender (personally I think he's pretty average).
His FINALS appearance last year gave him a bigger stage than the rest of his competition.
A 60-win, #1 seed Celtic team with that POINTZ status + defensive rep probably gets him, 3rd team
Bron pulling a rip cord on the season with a focus on next year is also in play.
Obviously, we all want Brown to make All-NBA for contract-term purposes. So Green Goggles firmly in place
Yup, I'm more complaining in general. And the exact same arguments (w/regards to durability and defense) will apply to Kyrie/Harden vs Jaylen as well.
There is no universe where the 2023 Harden is better than 2023 Brown. Are voters really this blinded by accomplishments 3 or more years in the past?
I feel like there’s weird tenure all over the place in this world; just think about national news and sports columnists—some of them haven’t gotten anything right in years.
Know what a Friedman Unit is? One of my favorite internetisms.
I don’t want to say there is zero chance that Jaylen doesn’t make All-NBA but regardless of position I don’t see how he misses aside from an injury or 2H collapse. Haliburton and SGA don’t have the rep to pass him and I’d argue that he’s probably ahead of Mitchell too amongst the guards. If he’s counted as a forward he’s a lock as he’s clearly inside that top 6 which has a huge gap to 7.
TL said post game the reason he didn't dunk off the block was that his knee "kinda buckled." He didn't say it like it was an issue, it just sucks to be in constant fear with this guy with how crazy good he is when healthy
Kyrie may be on my 1st Team if Curry misses more time. He’s so flying under the radar this year but he’s been one of the best players in the league.
Granted, Kyrie is not being asked to do much on defense as the Nets are indeed on a roll. But if he stays healthy (a big if w/ Kyrie), he will earn a deserved All NBA spot.
Meh. Aside from a select few you won’t find many high scoring guards locking anyone down. Who grades significantly higher defensively…..Mitchell? Doncic? Curry? Lillard? Haliburton?
Not significantly, but Kyrie certainly isn't better defensively than any of those guys. Mitchell historically has been a lousy defender, but by all reports he's actually putting his huge wingspan (6'10) to some use this year. Doncic is pretty lousy, but he's got 4 inches and 40 pounds on Kyrie, which alone makes him better defensively and on the boards (plus he's excused somewhat because his offensive burden is much higher). Despite his frame and offensive prowess, Curry has always been a pretty solid defender, teams attack him for the same reason they attack Derrick White (just because he's the easiest target on the floor doesn't mean he's a bad defender). Lillard is indeed terrible, just as bad as Kyrie (but like Doncic, he's excused somewhat because he carries a heavier offensive load). Haliburton I haven't seen enough of to say one way or another.
You're absolutely right that there aren't many high scoring guards locking players down right now. There are 8 guards in the top 20 in ppg (Doncic, SGA, Mitchell, Young, Morant, Booker, Irving, Fox) and I wouldn't say that any of those guys are better than average defensively (Brown is listed, correctly I think, as a SF). Still of this group, the only guy I'd say that is clearly worse defensively than Irving is Young.
If there is any difference it is inconsequential as 95% of what these players bring is on the offensive end. my 1st Team Guards would be Doncic and either Curry/Kyrie, likely depending on how much time Curry misses.
I’ve preached for years that Mitchell wasn’t a bad defender, as he has elite physical skills, but was a part of Utah’s scheme which was to lure guards into the paint where Gobert was there waiting. I’m as certain as can be that his “bad defense” rep was due to what Utah was looking to accomplish along with Mitchell conserving energy as Gobert was there. Having said that, he’s not in Kyrie’s league offensively.
He jumped off his right leg and it's his left knee that's the issue. When he didn't dunk that I immediately rewound to see what leg he jumped off. This is life with PTL.
You could tell he didn't quite time up his approach just right. A dunk was going to be a stretch.
That too was my initial thought. Just sucks we have to worry. In my lifetime I don't think I've seen a player who can create havoc like he can
The Celtics need to figure out 2 things:
1. Does Rob start or come off the bench? (And, more broadly, what is the starting lineup and does it change based on opponent?)
2. How do they get enough production from the bench? After 40 games, the Celtics are 28-12. They were 16-4 after the first 20 and 12-8 in the next 20. The bench was a big contributor to team success during the first 20, while team success during the next 20 was almost entirely driven by the starters.
1. Does Rob start or come off the bench? (And, more broadly, what is the starting lineup and does it change based on opponent?)
2. How do they get enough production from the bench? After 40 games, the Celtics are 28-12. They were 16-4 after the first 20 and 12-8 in the next 20. The bench was a big contributor to team success during the first 20, while team success during the next 20 was almost entirely driven by the starters.