2023-24 Celtics

benhogan

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I say sit the entire top six tomorrow for load management and just to tell the league schedule makers that they suck at their jobs.

I’m 82% joking.

GJGE nimrods.
we'll have a well rested KP + end-of-the-previous-game momentum

Steamroll the Bucks and their crappy D
 

lovegtm

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we'll have a well rested KP + end-of-the-previous-game momentum

Steamroll the Bucks and their crappy D
Yeah, they rested KP exactly for this.

It's a really really tough schedule spot, but let's see what they can do. This team keeps surprising me to the upside.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, they rested KP exactly for this.

It's a really really tough schedule spot, but let's see what they can do. This team keeps surprising me to the upside.
Just prepared for the full-on Giannis bull-rush experience the entire night.

The Bucks are going to want to draw a line in the sand. As far as the regular season goes, they need this or they are in danger of being caught by one of the EC "pack" (NYK, Miami, Indy, Orlando, Cavs)

Middleton's offense is back but kind of interested in seeing if he can provide any WING defensive resistance against the JAYs.
 

RorschachsMask

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Jaylen scored a super efficient 35, on 16 shots lol. He had 9 potential assists as well, so moved the ball well. Also obviously defended his ass off. Defensively, he held Ant to 7 points on 3-7 shooting over 45 possessions, also forced 2 turnovers, including one really late.

Tatum 26 points in the last 13 minutes lol. On the other end, he held Towns/Ant to a combined 11 points on 11 shots in 47 possessions. He’s averaging 32/8/5 on a 66% TS his last 8 games, and 40% on his pull-up the last 12. Up to 33% on the season, back to where it was two years ago. Let’s hope last year ends up being the outlier when it comes to that.
 

NomarsFool

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Great win. It's interesting to me how much more difficult the offense seems without KP. He really seems to make things a heck of a lot easier when he's on the floor. Tatum seems to be in one of his mid-season level up streaks at the moment.
 

bigq

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Great win. It's interesting to me how much more difficult the offense seems without KP. He really seems to make things a heck of a lot easier when he's on the floor. Tatum seems to be in one of his mid-season level up streaks at the moment.
KP gives the Celtics another dimension in the low post where he consistently converts and draws fouls. He and Al both stretch the floor in terms of spacing and ability to make threes but Al does not have anything close to the post game that KP has. Few do.

I loved seeing JT put the team on his back and take over the closing minutes of OT.

JB is on a heater as well. No one starts games as fast and effectively as he does. Last night he had 15 points in the first quarter on 5-7 shooting including 3-5 from three and 2-2 on FTs. I was happy to see him hit all of his FTs in crunch time last night (2-2 in Q4 and 4-4 in OT). For the night he was 13-13 from the charity stripe.

It's been a lot of fun to see this team compete at a high level even with a starter missing a game from time to time (KP last night, JT the prior game).

This Celtics team is a wagon and the playoffs can't get here soon enough.
 

benhogan

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The primary reason they gave the leagues best defense is because of Gobert though.
I don't think we should cheapen the C's win. KP is hands-down a better player than Rudy

Your favorite stat, +/-, loves Gobert this season (after having a tough year 1 in Minn).
BUT I'm not sure he could have had a huge impact on the C's offense last night.
They were 19/47 (40%) from 3 + 30/31 on FTs

Even Jaden McDaniels/Ant Edwards, two good perimeter defenders, had trouble slowing the JAYs shooting down.

Offensively, the Wolves' spacing (a benefit of Rudy missing) was giving Boston's #2 defense fits until they ran out of gas.
Kat, Naz, and Slow Mo all played well in Rudy's absence

Last night was an example of how good offense beats good defense (for both teams).
 
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Auger34

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Jaylen scored a super efficient 35, on 16 shots lol. He had 9 potential assists as well, so moved the ball well. Also obviously defended his ass off. Defensively, he held Ant to 7 points on 3-7 shooting over 45 possessions, also forced 2 turnovers, including one really late.

Tatum 26 points in the last 13 minutes lol. On the other end, he held Towns/Ant to a combined 11 points on 11 shots in 47 possessions. He’s averaging 32/8/5 on a 66% TS his last 8 games, and 40% on his pull-up the last 12. Up to 33% on the season, back to where it was two years ago. Let’s hope last year ends up being the outlier when it comes to that.
Both of the JAYs are leveling up. It's awesome to see.
 

RorschachsMask

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Both of the JAYs are leveling up. It's awesome to see.
I’m so proud of Jaylen. Being able to change your offensive approach after seven years is so impressive. And I hope that now people can see the difference between getting some assists, and actual playmaking.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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It seems pretty established at this point that Jaylen is the opener and Jayson is the closer. JB plays the whole first quarter almost every game now and sort of handles the 1Q scoring and leads the second unit once Tatum goes to the bench at the 6-minute mark or so. Then, once the start five is back in for the last six minutes of the game, the offense runs through Tatum, with him always getting a touch at the top and generally deciding what happens next. JB's role in the end game is to be the transition leader, always getting out fast on breakouts and trying to score easy baskets by attacking when the defense isn't set yet.

The big difference is that JB is getting WAY better at seeing when he doesn't have an exploitable advantage and pulling the ball back out and getting it into a safe place.

The end game execution last night wasn't perfect — Tatum and JB both have a tendency to hunt fouls on a drive instead of actually looking first to score, and it was combined at least once last night with a Tatum whine that made him slow to get back; there were a couple of bad iso threes from both of them, though Tatum's seemed to go in — but it's miles better than last year and it's so much more obvious that the players understand the plan and approach.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think we should cheapen the C's win. KP is hands-down a better player than Rudy

Your favorite stat, +/-, loves Gobert this season (after having a tough year 1 in Minn).
BUT I'm not sure he could have had a huge impact on the C's offense last night.
They were 19/47 (40%) from 3 + 30/31 on FTs

Even Jaden McDaniels/Ant Edwards, two good perimeter defenders, had trouble slowing the JAYs shooting down.

Offensively, the Wolves' spacing (a benefit of Rudy missing) was giving Boston's #2 defense fits until they ran out of gas.
Kat, Naz, and Slow Mo all played well in Rudy's absence

Last night was an example of how good offense beats good defense (for both teams).
Not cheapening it at all bc we were without Porzingis so that's close to a wash. They are just a totally different defensive team without Gobert in that rotation and not only defending the paint but dissuading dribble penetration....that unit last night isn't the best defensive team in the league, not even close, it's around league average with Towns anchoring the front court and missing Conley as well.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It seems pretty established at this point that Jaylen is the opener and Jayson is the closer. JB plays the whole first quarter almost every game now and sort of handles the 1Q scoring and leads the second unit once Tatum goes to the bench at the 6-minute mark or so. Then, once the start five is back in for the last six minutes of the game, the offense runs through Tatum, with him always getting a touch at the top and generally deciding what happens next. JB's role in the end game is to be the transition leader, always getting out fast on breakouts and trying to score easy baskets by attacking when the defense isn't set yet.

The big difference is that JB is getting WAY better at seeing when he doesn't have an exploitable advantage and pulling the ball back out and getting it into a safe place.

The end game execution last night wasn't perfect — Tatum and JB both have a tendency to hunt fouls on a drive instead of actually looking first to score, and it was combined at least once last night with a Tatum whine that made him slow to get back; there were a couple of bad iso threes from both of them, though Tatum's seemed to go in — but it's miles better than last year and it's so much more obvious that the players understand the plan and approach.
The wrinkle for the opener/closer thing is that whatever teams to do adjust to JB's first quarter attacking needs to be changed a bit when Tatum goes into kill mode. Most teams don't have a wealth of good wing defender options so one byproduct of this approach is that the Jays can take turns attacking the same players if the whistle is there. They kind of did this to McDaniels last night and the payoff was clear once he fouled out - Tatum was unleashed. Its kind of diabolical.
 

Silverdude2167

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I say sit the entire top six tomorrow for load management and just to tell the league schedule makers that they suck at their jobs.

I’m 82% joking.

GJGE nimrods.
I do think someone needs to pull the schedule makers aside and tell them they need to add a new rule to the algorithm.

Something like, no preseason top 4 team or no teams that are expected to make the conference semis (for in-conference games) are to be scheduled against each other on a B2B.

It's just stupid that the C's are on the second leg of a B2B vs. the Bucks. These are the must-see games, let's make sure both teams are somewhat fresh.
 

DavidTai

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The wrinkle for the opener/closer thing is that whatever teams to do adjust to JB's first quarter attacking needs to be changed a bit when Tatum goes into kill mode. Most teams don't have a wealth of good wing defender options so one byproduct of this approach is that the Jays can take turns attacking the same players if the whistle is there. They kind of did this to McDaniels last night and the payoff was clear once he fouled out - Tatum was unleashed. Its kind of diabolical.
I'd been thinking the third period when the Celtics usually cool off is because teams have started adjusting to JB leading the way in the third, and that maybe they should be playing off Porzingis more, but if this usually results in the wings being not prepared for Tatum in the fourth, is that a worthwhile enough tradeoff?
 

TripleOT

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Tatum obliterated Towns. 16 points on 6-8 shooting, on NINE POSSESSIONS lol.
All those sessions going at Embiid one on one in his off season skills training helps JT against a big at both ends of the court. He loves when a big tries to defend him on a switch.
 

benhogan

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Not cheapening it at all bc we were without Porzingis so that's close to a wash. They are just a totally different defensive team without Gobert in that rotation and not only defending the paint but dissuading dribble penetration....that unit last night isn't the best defensive team in the league, not even close, it's around league average with Towns anchoring the front court and missing Conley as well.
That's fair. The Wolves are a better team with those two, although NAW turned into his cousin for a while.

Here is some Celtic porn for all you junkies.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96F5WlrEgYQ


One last thing on end-of-game ISO situations (which I've been outspoken about).

Tatum had a chance to win the game and missed. BUT I liked JT's ISO much more than JB's ISO in Indy for 2 reasons:
1. Tatum was being guarded by one man while Jaylen drew 3 defenders & had open teammates
2. Tatum took his game-winning attempt with 2 seconds while Jaylen went into his with 4 seconds left (as we know those 2 seconds are massive if the other team has a timeout)

So even though JB was fouled & should have had the better OUTCOME, I believe Tatum's end-of-game APPROACH was more efficient.
 
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lovegtm

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That's fair. The Wolves are a better team with those two, although NAW turned into his cousin for a while.

Here is some Celtic porn for all you junkies.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96F5WlrEgYQ


One last thing on end-of-games ISO (which I've been outspoken about).

Tatum had a chance to win the game and missed. BUT I liked JT's ISO much more than JB's ISO in Indy for 2 reasons:
1. Tatum was being guarded by one man while Jaylen drew 3 defenders & had open teammates
2. Tatum took his game-winning attempt with 2 seconds while Jaylen went into his with 4 seconds left (as we know those 2 seconds are massive if the other team has a timeout)

So even though JB was fouled & should have had the better OUTCOME, I believe Tatum's end-of-game APPROACH was more efficient.
Yes, JT's shot was a ~45% clean look with time expiring. It doesn't get much better than that end of game.
 

benhogan

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Yes, JT's shot was a ~45% clean look with time expiring. It doesn't get much better than that end of game.
Tatum is exceptional with timing. He is noticeably better than Brown/Jrue in regards clock/situation.

ISO Tatum is a good play, as long as hits the open teammate if doubled
(or doesn't settle for step-back/PU 3 in a tied game)
 

bigq

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That's fair. The Wolves are a better team with those two, although NAW turned into his cousin for a while.

Here is some Celtic porn for all you junkies.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96F5WlrEgYQ


One last thing on end-of-game ISO situations (which I've been outspoken about).

Tatum had a chance to win the game and missed. BUT I liked JT's ISO much more than JB's ISO in Indy for 2 reasons:
1. Tatum was being guarded by one man while Jaylen drew 3 defenders & had open teammates
2. Tatum took his game-winning attempt with 2 seconds while Jaylen went into his with 4 seconds left (as we know those 2 seconds are massive if the other team has a timeout)

So even though JB was fouled & should have had the better OUTCOME, I believe Tatum's end-of-game APPROACH was more efficient.
Thanks for that.

Ha! He said Edwards had a perfect jump on the jump ball with Tatum in the 4th. He neglected to mention that Edwards was holding Tatum's arm.

Best home start in Celtics franchise history. That's impressive.
 

benhogan

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Good article in the Athletic today . "Peel Switching" is an interesting defensive action (described below)

https://theathletic.com/5194513/2024/01/11/boston-celtics-defense-strategy-peel-switching/

The Celtics have used the zone sparingly this season – just 52 possessions over 36 games. But they’ve allowed just 49 total points on those zone plays, an absurdly good rate that should entice Boston to use it more often.

“Just being able to throw off the rhythm of teams is important,” Mazzulla said. “It’s been good to us a couple possessions. And our guys are open-minded to doing different things defensively, which allows them to execute.”

The Celtics zone defense is just a small piece of what makes its defense so special. Outside of Porziņģis, the Celtics are perfectly constructed to switch every screen. But Boston also is doing something only a few teams can replicate.


PEEL SWITCHING
Regular switching involves the two defenders directly in the action swapping assignments. Peel switching is when a third defender not in the initial action slides over to pick up the ballhandler, with that man’s original defender going to the newly vacated offensive player. It permits KP to stay in drop coverage/rim protection, White/Holiday are very effective in the action.

The C's are also good with handing off their man to KP at the rim and peeling off to guard the perimeter.


Thrilled to see Utah play well, which means Markkanen is probably staying put.

76ers, OKC, and NYK in the hunt for more talent
 

SteveF

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Interestingly the Celtics are 18th in 2pt Oreb%, and 5th in 3pt Oreb%.

Here's the league average in 3pt Oreb% the last few years:
2019-2020: 20.37%
2020-2021: 20.09%
2021-2022: 21.63%
2022-2023: 22.59%
2023-2024: 23.78%

There seems to be a trend.
 

lovegtm

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Last year, the Celtics sat almost everyone at Milwaukee, because the Cs had to travel back home to play the next night.

That OT loss was one of the more fun/different games of the year.
 

Imbricus

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I only saw the first half of last night's game, but it was high comedy. Celtics front-rimming shots and listless on the boards, while the Bucks shot 55% from three. The silver lining, I figured, was whether you lose by 2 or 50, it only counts as one loss. Anyone know the last time all five starters failed to make a single three-point shot?
 

lovegtm

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I only saw the first half of last night's game, but it was high comedy. Celtics front-rimming shots and listless on the boards, while the Bucks shot 55% from three. The silver lining, I figured, was whether you lose by 2 or 50, it only counts as one loss. Anyone know the last time all five starters failed to make a single three-point shot?
Yes, if it weren't for the rest rules, this 100% would have been PP/Hauser/Kornet starting. Anyone saying differently just wants reasons to not enjoy life.

"I'm just here so I won't get fined."
 

m0ckduck

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Yes, if it weren't for the rest rules, this 100% would have been PP/Hauser/Kornet starting. Anyone saying differently just wants reasons to not enjoy life.

"I'm just here so I won't get fined."
But don't "rest rules" stipulate that players must play min 20 minutes for the game to count towards the 65 games required for awards eligibility? With the exception of KP, all the starers played just under 20 min. So, it didn't even achieve that end.

Or is there a different aspect of "the rest rules" that you're talking about here?
 

lovegtm

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But don't "rest rules" stipulate that players must play min 20 minutes for the game to count towards the 65 games required for awards eligibility? With the exception of KP, all the starers played just under 20 min. So, it didn't even achieve that end.

Or is there a different aspect of "the rest rules" that you're talking about here?
The league mandates that stars play in national TV games like this, otherwise the team gets fined.

In addition, you get 2 15-19 minute exceptions to the 20 minute rule.
 

m0ckduck

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The league mandates that stars play in national TV games like this, otherwise the team gets fined.

In addition, you get 2 15-19 minute exceptions to the 20 minute rule.
Ah, I had no idea. So, the C's can say effectively that KP, Tatum and Brown all logged games towards the 65 game min, b/c they played 21, 18 and 16 min respectively— that's how it works?
 

JCizzle

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The league mandates that stars play in national TV games like this, otherwise the team gets fined.

In addition, you get 2 15-19 minute exceptions to the 20 minute rule.
Is it really that hard for the league to not schedule back-to-backs at all for nationally televised games? I could be wildly off on this, but I don't think they flex around these games very often like the NFL does?
 

NomarsFool

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I wish they could just eliminate back to backs entirely. Would the players mind a shorter offseason by a little if it meant no B2B? Seems like a reasonable trade off to me.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I wish they could just eliminate back to backs entirely. Would the players mind a shorter offseason by a little if it meant no B2B? Seems like a reasonable trade off to me.
I'd imagine that is a hard No from the players. If I were a player I sure as heck wouldn't want to take away from the offseason especially if I had a young family.