the 08 team was such a beast and yet I always felt they underperformed their offensive potential.
2023-24 Celtics
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They weren’t a complete offensive team though. Having ‘08 Rondo and Perkins on the floor together coupled w KG’s midrange jumpers and this really was an inefficient offense.
Like many from previous eras I’m sure he would have if it was pushed upon him as it is to bigs today. I really think McHale would have been a phenomenal threat behind the arc. He had the mechanics to be lights out from there.
I can remember arriving early for a Suns/Celtics game in Phoenix in the late 80´s and Bird and McHale were out on the floor fooling around haphazardly guarding each other’s shot. That little one on one morphed into a mini three point shot competition. Kevin matched Larry for about 5 shots at the top of the circle just beyond the three point line. One after another swished through.Then he waived Larry off and went back into the locker room.
So accurate, though it should say "Celtics at halftime every night." Around a while ago I just stopped worrying what the score looked like going into halftime
12 free throws for KP, 11 for Tatum, 10 for Brown. I wonder how common it is for one team to have three players all hit double digit FTAs in the same game.
….and the entire game thread in hysterics about the whistle Maxey was getting.
(CORRECTLY in hysterics, obviously)
It would have been a big adjustment though: his shot was very flat. Makes KP's look like a rainbow. He would have had to re-work it a lot to extend his range.
This is fantastic.
A couple of additional takeaways from me--
--When Tyrese Maxey feels like playing defense, he can be a really well-rounded player. He did for stretches tonight, getting under Jaylen and driving him nuts. Stood up well on some postups too. Luckily, even motivated and in a close game, he's not interested in that really. So when the Celtics felt like really trying, the floodgates opened.
--even in their meh individual games, these guys are really good
--the luxury of having Jrue and Al is your fifth and sixth playmakers is just a joy to watch. When the other guys are out or losing focus for a second, those two keep the ball rolling.
--Buddy Hield plays like he's a 40yo man out there
I've devoted very little time to thinking about Buddy Hield, but I know two interesting facts about him:
-Until very recently, he was the leading scorer from the 2016 draft class (over guys Siakam, Ingram, Sabonis, Jamal and Dejounte Murray). Currently about 50 points behind Jaylen. Pretty remarkable for a guy who might not even be in the top 10 in a redraft.
-He's played more games and minutes without reaching the playoffs than any active player (and he's 4th and 2nd most all-time). If Embiid is done for the year, it really seems like he's gonna miss the playoffs yet again, despite spending the year with Indy (29-23 in 6th place when they moved him) and Philly (30-20 and in 5th place when they acquired him).
Celtics now have two of the last three such games, with the other coming on December 29, 2020, which had the Js and Smart. This is the first such game of any team this season, and the first since the Pisons did so against Brooklyn on March 26, 2021, with Grant/Saben Lee/Plumlee. Including playoffs, in NBA/BAA or ABA history, this is the 772nd overall such game and #60 for the Celtics with 3+ at 10+ FTA same team, same game.
Three times a team has had a record five players at 10+ FTA on one team in one game, but this hasn't happened since 1969.
My favorite Buddy Hield fact is that Bill Simmons was begging for Ainge to draft him. Was really jazzed by his “It Factor” iirc.
I was watching on mute and I’ll be honest I completely forgot he was a Sixer now. Maxey really pounds the rock, seems like not the best situation for any spot up shooters on the floor but also seems like their best chance of scoring without Embiid.
I don’t know how much of it is Maxey being disinterested or not motivated when he’s playing 40 min and being asked to carry the offensive load without Embiid there. It seems like he’s managing his gas tank to me which is necessary in these circumstances.
I believe Vivek thought that Hield could be for the Kings what Steph Curry is for the Warriors as an ultra floor-spacer and defense-warping weapon.
Turns out, Steph is pretty unique.
I was really complimenting him honestly, as it's the first time that I've ever seen him really dial in at that end. DARKO thinks that his defense has steadily improved for a while now (still not good, but not nearly as bad).
Of course I realize that anything that appears to criticize a one-way shooting guard is basically the HRB bat signal.
Maxey isn’t a one-way shooting guard though. He’s a 23-yr old kid who has figured out a lot on the defensive end his first few years in the league and still has more to do as a playmaker.
It's not as Maxey was any good on defense when he was playing with Embiid though
I meant that he plays on one end. He has definitely become a solid playmaker as well.
Haha.
I still drop DARKO too much, but in this case it supports the case for improvement on D for Maxey (and O), whereas BBRef numbers do not at all.
I bet that this forum alone could put together an aggregate defensive metric from publicly available data such as opponent eFG% and deflections and shit, one that wouldn't be any worse than what's out there and would tell the story from a different perspective.
My take on guards defending is that you can pretty much say it about anyone if you look hard enough. We've heard it hear about Jrue's perimeter defense even. With todays offensive schemes using ball screens, off-ball screens and creating switches it is easy to make it appear a guard is not always giving full effort. They are constantly forced out of position or in mismatches by the offense. I think Maxey's defense overall has been fine and as said above worlds better than when he was sharing the backcourt with Harden as your teammates now play such a factor in your individual defense. These two probably hurt each other on that end as Harden has been fantastic defensively with the Clippers now that he is involved in actions with Kawhi and George.
Well, yes, but from a different perspective. And I say this as someone with an unhealthy amount of love for DARKO and what bowiac did.
Has to be someone with coding chops.
Ha ha, this isn't getting enough appreciation
Shrimpy PGs (don't get me started on ones with bad hips/knees) are a huge problem in a slowed-down half-court game (PLAYOFFS) since they have to switch on to an Alpha scoring 4/5 (hello KP) or on to strong WING (JAYs). Pick your poison.
While the NBA media was tripping over themselves applauding the DAME! to the Bucks' move (which cost them Jrue+). The Harden move has been more impactful since he can at least make it difficult for Alpha 4/5s until help arrives
I was at a Celtics summer camp thing and McHale made like 15 threes in a row from the top. McHale would be the perfect big for the modern game.
Jrue as the lock down defender to close a game is an incredible weapon. Last night against Philly, he held Maxey to two points and only three shots, and no other stats, in almost six minutes before Nurse threw up the white flag. If the other team manages to set a pick to get Jrue off their scorer, he then has to deal with a Tatum or a JB, or DWhite. Boston is good at not letting their big have to defend in p/r too, switching before the offensive player heads over to set the pick. When that doesn’t happen, they’re good at help defense so the big isn’t out on an island on skates.
Totally agree about small PGs in the playoffs as we’ve seen with Pritchard ourselves.
Meh, the schedule after this mini run more than makes up for it. Though the cushion is nice because the Celtics will likely legit have a month to rotate resting players.
Great note regarding Harden. I was a long, long-time detractor of Harden's game for the hyperfocus on getting to the line (not even trying to score, I know--oldhead) and the abject lack of any attempt on defense. But he's strong as fuck and developed the spider man hands that gave him so many steals and breakups that he became a net neutral defender at least despite barely moving his feet on that end. He doesn't get a hell of a lot of credit for that transformation, and he deserves some.
This is a great observation too. Unlike some of the straight drop teams in the league, this team is filled with mid-height guys all across the roster that can not only switch basically everywhere but are also smart enough and well-coached enough this year to pre-switch and rotate before things become a problem (at least often, if not always). It's huge. Someone made a point on broadcast about how this year's Celtics are hyper-focused on identifying advantages and exploiting them on the offensive end. I think that one could make a case that they're pretty good at identifying disadvantages and mitigating them on the defensive end too.
You know what was really cool last night?
There was a play with maybe 5-6 minutes left or son in the 4th where Horford rotated onto a smaller man underneath while Jrue was holding the ball to run clock at the top of the key. Jrue looked to Tatum to hand off the ball for a last second iso, but Tatum instead emphatically pointed to Al for the mismatch and Jrue rifled the ball to him instead for an easy 2 with 8-9 seconds left on the shot clock. That's the sign of maturity and understanding of the game. The entire team is out there looking to find the best matchup and exploit it, starting at the top with your superstar. It's a sign of good coaching, too.
THAT IS THE KIND OF PLAY WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING TO SEE MANY YEARS WITH THIS TEAM CLOSE AND LATE TO CLOSE OUT A GAME. I AM EXCITE.
There was a play with maybe 5-6 minutes left or son in the 4th where Horford rotated onto a smaller man underneath while Jrue was holding the ball to run clock at the top of the key. Jrue looked to Tatum to hand off the ball for a last second iso, but Tatum instead emphatically pointed to Al for the mismatch and Jrue rifled the ball to him instead for an easy 2 with 8-9 seconds left on the shot clock. That's the sign of maturity and understanding of the game. The entire team is out there looking to find the best matchup and exploit it, starting at the top with your superstar. It's a sign of good coaching, too.
THAT IS THE KIND OF PLAY WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING TO SEE MANY YEARS WITH THIS TEAM CLOSE AND LATE TO CLOSE OUT A GAME. I AM EXCITE.
This is why there's some hope for Luka at some point realizing that he doesn't have to be a defensive liability. No such luck for the Lillards and Youngs of the world.
People need to give Joe way, way more credit for how far they've come this year in consistently executing this stuff. It's really impressive.
Haliburton is in the same class as those guys right now (anyone can can either go around him, over him or through him with ease), but he's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. If he puts on 15 pounds and puts some effort into it, I can imagine him improving to merely bad, rather than abysmal.
Good call. He's atrocious.
Another one that just doesn't do it and could is Dejounte Murray. Guy had it all, went to Atlanta and literally stopped playing defense altogether. Like, yeah they suck on defense there, but he's pouring gasoline on the problem.
A few years ago it appeared that All-Star Dejounte Murray was the big catch out of San Antonio with White being a nice consolation prize, until you read Spurs fans' message boards. Across the board, they were higher on White than DM (On-Off +/- further emphasized the point)
Rough night for the Celtics' social media admin:
View: https://twitter.com/alexmorgan13/status/1762660632070107516
View: https://twitter.com/alexmorgan13/status/1762660632070107516