2023-24 Celtics
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Collective freakout here, among Celtics fans in general, or amongst the national media?
Wouldn't surprise me if the Celtics treat it like the rest of their games in the final month (resting 2-3 starters), which completely takes the air out of any negative hot takes. This team doesn't have anything left to prove or gain in the regular season.
The NBA media is hangry to bury the Celtics
They don't even need a Bucks win, one of these 5 things will suffice:
1. C's miss plenty of 3s
2. KP twists his ankle
3. Brown turns the ball over
4. Tatum misses a late shot
5. Joe doesn't call a late timeout
If they rest starters, then I agree. The national media and Celtics fans will freak out regardless if they lose. I think people here are a bit on edge too. I guess I'd only feel good with a loss if it's a very obvious make/miss game (which do happen).
I could see the Bucks coming out more motivated, going up by 12 or so in the first half, and then holding on for a close win at the end. That wouldn't bother me much. At this point, nothing really matters until the playoffs. The Bucks can score, play defense, and have two guys who can completely light it up on any given day. Sometimes, that team will beat you. I would be super bummed and very sad and question the existence of any and all higher powers if they beat the Cs 4 out of 7 in the playoffs, but with a 10 game lead in the eastern conference, I'm not going to sweat a close loss in the regular season.
If they get blown out or something? If the team for some reason just doesn't show up? Yeah, that would trouble me greatly. But it's really hard to see that happening in this case.
If they get blown out or something? If the team for some reason just doesn't show up? Yeah, that would trouble me greatly. But it's really hard to see that happening in this case.
6. The Celtics win by 25, but because they shoot 22-45 from 3, some will use it as an excuse to point out that their 3 pointers might not fall in the playoffs (Inside the NBA's postgame coverage of Celtics/Suns last week was embarrassing) and Boston might not be able to recover.
If we lose by 50 and nobody gets hurt, we win.
Literally all I care about now is starting the playoffs healthy and being the top seed in the league. All my judgments for this team will come during and after the playoffs.
Literally all I care about now is starting the playoffs healthy and being the top seed in the league. All my judgments for this team will come during and after the playoffs.
If the Lakers were putting up this kind of season, holy fuck would the national media be hanging yellow and purple banners all over the place.
The Celtics seem to almost not interest the media at all, they’re a machine and present no real intrigue.
The Celtics seem to almost not interest the media at all, they’re a machine and present no real intrigue.
This team has lost 14 out of 68 games this season and after each one I've read media as well as fan takes that the defeat revealed a lot about the team's flaws. It feels like I don't find the same folks pointing out the Celtics strengths during winning streaks or even acknowledging their body of work this year. They are just here after each loss to tell you that Tatum is a fake superstar or Jaylen will be slowed in the playoffs or Mazzulla is destined to be out coached etc.
Why would a loss to the Bucks be any different?
These two have been exactly as I expected. Springer isn’t going to give us anything this year and his lack of ever making a leap thus far in the league doesn’t bode well for his longevity in it. Tillman can play, he was an essential frontcourt piece for a playoff team in Memphis. His physicality, ability to switch defensively and space the floor on offense without needing shots to be effective gives us a nice depth piece to plug in.
1. Stop trying to make fetch happen.
2. The rest of the schedule is laughably easy too. This is gonna be a loooong month of waiting.
I posted in here a week or two ago about the Celtics having a handful of “circled” games the rest of the way to keep this group sharp and engaged. After the Bucks wiped their floor with our asses in Milwaukee two months ago this is a prime spot to send a message and approach this as a playoff game and a rout.
6. Joe doesn't yell at the refs enough
You could replace NBA media with grumpy SoSH members in Rocco's Game Logs.
Yeah, if they're gonna play the whole group and play to win, this is the last game to do so. Exactly a month until round 1 starts (April 20), and there a few real games left after this (@NOP, home for OKC and SAC, @MIL and home for NYK), but this is probably the only one that really matters.
Yeah, bargain bin Dray was always it. Or as far back as 7 years ago, anyway. At least in East Lansing.
I wanted Tillman pretty badly with the Pritchard pick so I'm quite happy with this turn of events. Better late than never.
Yup, Tillman looks like a guy who will be a C's roleplayer for awhile, and Springer looks like a summer salary dump/salary match.
The only noteworthy thing on that list is that Sam is just questionable, meaning he's about 50-50 to play. Just additional evidence that his ankle sprain isn't too dire.
Aside from the massive defensively differences Draymond is also an elite passer and initiator is the offense. Aside from their size I don’t know how much I’d say Draymond is a comp since they are so differently skilled on both ends of the floor.
As they gave up something for Springer and he's still cost-controlled I'd be a bit surprised if they dumped him this summer...not shocked, but surprised. My guess is they see him as a development guy as a third guard/role player and they want to take another year to test that idea....rather than him being primarily an in-year pickup to help during playoffs.
We'll see..he hasn't impressed yet
Unless you add a better prospect or give up on him the Celtics will probably want to work with him this summer and in a full camp. Guys like this get more shots with the 15-man rosters than they did years ago.
Was talking only about defense, and gave all the disclaimers necessary about how amazing Draymond is on that end.
Yeah, I don't see them dumping Springer this early. With the new CBA, they need to grow role players on the cheap and Springer already has 1 clear NBA ready skillset (defense).
Next year's roster is likely to see very little change (unless they get bounced early in the playoffs, god forbid) with guys like Walsh and Springer replacing the Svi and Brissett types end of the bench types.
Hauser and Prichard have proven themselves to be quality NBA rotation pieces. If we assume Al gets has a similar role next year and is still effective, the first 8 spots of the roster are already spoken for.
The next 2-3 spots will be used on the bigs.
The next 4-5 will be emergency depth and projects.
Of the projects on the roster or on 2 ways, Walsh and Springer are the only two that seem likely to have a real chance of contributing at the beginning of next season. I just don't see them jettisoning Springer for JD Davison, for example.
Next year's roster is likely to see very little change (unless they get bounced early in the playoffs, god forbid) with guys like Walsh and Springer replacing the Svi and Brissett types end of the bench types.
Hauser and Prichard have proven themselves to be quality NBA rotation pieces. If we assume Al gets has a similar role next year and is still effective, the first 8 spots of the roster are already spoken for.
The next 2-3 spots will be used on the bigs.
The next 4-5 will be emergency depth and projects.
Of the projects on the roster or on 2 ways, Walsh and Springer are the only two that seem likely to have a real chance of contributing at the beginning of next season. I just don't see them jettisoning Springer for JD Davison, for example.
I don't think it's busted. I'm no shot doctor but it seems like he sets up and releases the ball too far away from him so he doesn't get arc or power. That should be fixable with a summer with a good shooting coach.
Good. Rest one of the Jays, then, and let's have a mutual, implicit recognition between these two teams that the game isn't being taken fully seriously. And we probably win by 15, even with some resting.
Next candidate for "we go hard for this one" probably isn't till 3/30 @ New Orleans, or if not then, then 4/3 vs OKC.
I'll be there tonight, so not surprised Giannis is sitting. Last game I went to, I got to see Lebron and AD in street clothes and the C's lose to the Lakers, so hopefully not a repeat of that shit.
Just to add to this, the one loss to a bad team this year was in Charlotte, on the second night of a B2B, in overtime. So we are undefeated in regulation against <.500 teams this year.
Of the 1986 team's 15 losses, 10 of them (including 6 of their first 7) were to teams who finished under .500. That was in their first 28 games, so they were 21-7 (.750), including a 4-5 stretch from games 20-28, during which I'm sure the Sons of Sam Jones were losing their blessed minds. Anyway, the 1986 team was 27-5 (.844) against teams >.500 (19-3 vs East, 8-2 vs West), and 40-10 (.800) against teams <.500. Yes, they did better against the good teams. Of those 5 losses to >.500 teams, they were by a combined 14 points, so average loss was by 2.8. And only one real stinker all year, the (lone) home loss to Portland.
This year, we're "only" 28-13 (.683) vs teams >.500 (a 56-win pace). Though we've got 6 remaining games against teams who are currently >.500, so could get as high as .723 (59-win pace) if we sweep it.
Bold = finished >.500.
(I'm not going and reconstructing their records at the time, though obviously the Nets were 0-0 for G1)
G1 @ NJN (39-43), by 4
G10 @ IND (26-56), by 2
G20 vs POR (40-42), by 18
G23 @ CLE (29-53), by 10
G25 @ CHI (30-52), by 8
G27 @ PHI (54-28), by 6
G28 @ NYK (23-59), by 9
G33 @ DET (46-36), by 4
G47 @ SAC (37-45), by 5
G51 @ PHO (32-50), by 7
G53 @ DEN (47-35), by 2
G62 @ WSB (39-43), by 2
G63 @ DAL (44-38), by 1
G78 @ PHI (54-28), by 1
G80 @ NJN (39-43), by 10
And by-opponent vs >.500 teams:
Milwaukee 5-0
Philly 4-2
Atlanta 6-0
Detroit 4-1
LAL 2-0
Houston 2-0
Denver 1-1
Dallas 1-1
Utah 2-0
And helping me count records for 2023-24 vs >.500 teams...
Milwaukee 1-1
Cleveland 2-1
Knicks 4-0
Magic 2-1
Philly 3-1
Indiana 3-2
Miami 3-0
OKC 0-1
Denver 0-2
Minnesota 1-1
LA Clippers 1-1
New Orleans 1-0
Sacramento 1-0
Dallas 2-0
Phoenix 2-0
LA Lakers 1-1
GS Warriors 1-1
East 18-6 West 10-7 Total 28-13
(I'm not going and reconstructing their records at the time, though obviously the Nets were 0-0 for G1)
G1 @ NJN (39-43), by 4
G10 @ IND (26-56), by 2
G20 vs POR (40-42), by 18
G23 @ CLE (29-53), by 10
G25 @ CHI (30-52), by 8
G27 @ PHI (54-28), by 6
G28 @ NYK (23-59), by 9
G33 @ DET (46-36), by 4
G47 @ SAC (37-45), by 5
G51 @ PHO (32-50), by 7
G53 @ DEN (47-35), by 2
G62 @ WSB (39-43), by 2
G63 @ DAL (44-38), by 1
G78 @ PHI (54-28), by 1
G80 @ NJN (39-43), by 10
And by-opponent vs >.500 teams:
Milwaukee 5-0
Philly 4-2
Atlanta 6-0
Detroit 4-1
LAL 2-0
Houston 2-0
Denver 1-1
Dallas 1-1
Utah 2-0
And helping me count records for 2023-24 vs >.500 teams...
Milwaukee 1-1
Cleveland 2-1
Knicks 4-0
Magic 2-1
Philly 3-1
Indiana 3-2
Miami 3-0
OKC 0-1
Denver 0-2
Minnesota 1-1
LA Clippers 1-1
New Orleans 1-0
Sacramento 1-0
Dallas 2-0
Phoenix 2-0
LA Lakers 1-1
GS Warriors 1-1
East 18-6 West 10-7 Total 28-13
There were 23 teams in the league in 1985-86, and only 9 others besides the Cs finished >.500 (4 others in the East, 5 teams in the West; the Lakers were the only >.500 team in their 6-team division), so it was pretty top-heavy in those days. Right now, 8/15 teams in the East and 10/15 in the West are >.500, or 60% of the league. Much deeper talent pool that we have to face.
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5th game in 7 nights, coming off an intense OT game against Minnesota the night before.
I think that's the key honestly. Every time one of us wonders WTF with Springer, that's where my head goes anyway.
Celtics losses this year are the following:
Overtime loss in Minnesota (Derrick White missed game)
Lost the next one at Philly, final game of the road trip by 3 points
Lost to Charlotte in OT, on a back to back and final game of a road trip (no Horford, no White)
Lost to Orlando, in season tournament (no Holiday)
Lost to Indiana, in season tournament (no KP)
Lost at Golden State, in OT, (no KP)
Lost at OKC by 4
Lost at Indiana by 2 (no Tatum)
Blown out by Bucks, back to back, coming off an OT win vs. Minnesota (no Horford)
Lost by 2 to Denver
Blown out by Clippers, first game back from road trip (no KP)
Lost the awful game to the Lakers
Blew a 22 point lead to the Cavs, the Dean Wade game
Lost at Denver by 6
That's it. This team at full strength basically has no let down games.
Overtime loss in Minnesota (Derrick White missed game)
Lost the next one at Philly, final game of the road trip by 3 points
Lost to Charlotte in OT, on a back to back and final game of a road trip (no Horford, no White)
Lost to Orlando, in season tournament (no Holiday)
Lost to Indiana, in season tournament (no KP)
Lost at Golden State, in OT, (no KP)
Lost at OKC by 4
Lost at Indiana by 2 (no Tatum)
Blown out by Bucks, back to back, coming off an OT win vs. Minnesota (no Horford)
Lost by 2 to Denver
Blown out by Clippers, first game back from road trip (no KP)
Lost the awful game to the Lakers
Blew a 22 point lead to the Cavs, the Dean Wade game
Lost at Denver by 6
That's it. This team at full strength basically has no let down games.
Yes, with all 6 starters available, the team is 23-6 (losses as noted above: @ PHI, @ OKC, v DEN, v LAL, @ CLE, @ DEN). When missing only Horford, the team is a further 3-1 (@ MIL blowout the only additional loss). Of those 7 losses with all our starters, we can chalk two (@ PHI, @ MIL) up to schedule-related stuff (frankly, of the games that you'd consider "schedule losses" looking at the season in advance, we've probably won most of them anyway). Of the other 5, the only losses we've taken at full strength all year, 3 were road games, 4 were very close scores, and 3 were against the very best teams in the league, the only real peers we have (DEN and OKC). The Laker loss and the Cleveland collapse were the only times all season that we lost to an inferior team with a full-strength lineup (and you can argue Cleveland is the 2nd-best team in the East).
So that's my one real, true gripe with the season: out of all the games on the schedule, out of all the many glorious victories and humdrum victories, the one time we lost without the slightest bit of excuse, the ONE time we got righteously beat for no good reason, in front of our home fans no less, it HAD to be to the f'ing Lakers?! A small karmic price to pay for the rest of the season, perhaps, but it irks me out of all proportion to what it says about the team.
I guess you could say it was karmic payment for that New Years game a season ago, instead. So we give Lebron a sleepless night once, with him cursing the refs the whole way back to LA, and then he pays us back in kind the next time he's in town? Fair's fair, I suppose, but I still don't have to calmly accept it.
So that's my one real, true gripe with the season: out of all the games on the schedule, out of all the many glorious victories and humdrum victories, the one time we lost without the slightest bit of excuse, the ONE time we got righteously beat for no good reason, in front of our home fans no less, it HAD to be to the f'ing Lakers?! A small karmic price to pay for the rest of the season, perhaps, but it irks me out of all proportion to what it says about the team.
I guess you could say it was karmic payment for that New Years game a season ago, instead. So we give Lebron a sleepless night once, with him cursing the refs the whole way back to LA, and then he pays us back in kind the next time he's in town? Fair's fair, I suppose, but I still don't have to calmly accept it.
I have to asume that Giannis is still scared:
How about a trip to the cinema for you instead; I hear "Dune 2" is a nice movie!?
With that recent history and for those of us planning to watch and enjoy a Celtics basketball game later today:
How about a trip to the cinema for you instead; I hear "Dune 2" is a nice movie!?
81% on FTs
80% at Tenn
He could eventually develop a 3pt stroke, just looks like he is going 100mph (Nesmith like).
He's a 21yr old plus defender. $4MM next season then RFA rights. Hope Brad gives him plenty of rope, like having +++ defensive role players that could develop at #14/15 on the roster.
Up next: four snoozers against tomato cans, a semi-interesting game in New Orleans, a snoozer against Charlotte, and then what should be a great game against OKC at home if both teams are healthy. IMO that’s the last interesting game they have. They play the Bucks and Knicks in the last week, but I’m assuming those won’t be full squads.
55-14 in todays nba is wild lol. Obviously they need to win the title, but that doesn’t diminish what they’re doing in the present.
Only caught the final seven minutes of this one and I know Jones and Burke waxed poetic about the Bucks 23 zone, but what I saw were WIDE open threes in which the Cs missed several and space to drive middle and offensive put back opportunities. This wasn't the Heat zone that amoeba shapes among 23, 13, and 32 and is active. IDK how much 23 the Bucks normally play but the one I saw was lazy. And, it should be noted zone is not as effective against this version of the Celtics as it has been vs. previous ones. Burke, in particular, seems to be living in the past as she made several comments down the stretch that really don't apply to this year's team (maybe she feels she owes Doc some love, IDK). That kind of zone, honestly, would be my last approach against the Celtics. But, again, I didn't see 85% of the game so IDK if they switched to zone bc they had to or what. Taking Dame off the court at the end bc he was a defensive liability is understandable and kinda like wow.
EDIT: IDK what Doc said postgame but that dude wanted to win this one badly. You could tell.
EDIT: IDK what Doc said postgame but that dude wanted to win this one badly. You could tell.
I think that Pelicans game on their floor is going to be a banger and a great challenge. One of their few remaining “circled games.”
The Cs missed a ton of open 3s against that zone.
Milwaukee hit basically everything, and it was mostly well-contested.
This was the Cleveland game, except that the Cs won, and the 3s conceded weren't the lazy wide-open ones to Wade.
Boston can get basically anything it wants against this version of the Bucks, even with Giannis. They should be pretty heavy favorites if the two teams match up.
Finn article about the zone here: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/21/sports/celtics-avert-meltdown-bucks-zone/
I agree that the Cs offense slowed down until JT decided to take over. Also, KP missed 2 post-up shots against smaller, physical players (Connaughton IIRC was one defender, so he's going to see that more).
Even though there was some shooting variance, I think the Cs will see plenty of zone the rest of the season. Will be good practice.
Genuine question - How do we distinguish between fatigue and lazyness/unmotivated? To me, the shots down the stretch seemed flat.