2023 Cowboys: Kellen Moore out as OC, McCarthy stuck in 1996

TFisNEXT

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They're complete frauds like every season since Super Bowl 30 and there's zero reason for the Prescott-McCarthy era to continue. McCarthy is a horrible coach and a worse playcaller/OC and Dak isn't worth keeping for the lack of production and his limitations. He can be cut post June 1 in the offseason for a substantial discount.
Yeah I’m pretty much at this level now with the Cowboys. I’ve been a Dak Truther for a long time but at some point, you need to throw the team on your back and he hasn’t been able to do that in big games with maybe a couple of exceptions against the Eagles over the years. He’s a pretty good QB who feasts on mediocre competition but rarely has a “wow” game against the cream of the crop.

And for all the talk of the defense being dominant, they folded like a cheap suit. I doubt Trevon Diggs would’ve made that much difference last night.

It’s easy to overreact from one game but this has kind of been a pattern for Dallas for several years.
 

Greg29fan

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Lost by seven million last night and the chaser on the arsenic cocktail is they lost their two best special teamers (CJ Goodwin for the season and Turpin for multiple weeks) and Vander Esch screwed his neck up again.
 

TFisNEXT

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Amazing how 1 week changes the landscape....Eagles lose a brutal game to the Jets while Dallas wins a tough road game (even if ugly...but I subscribe that there are really no ugly road wins in the NFL). That doesn't change the underlying issues this team still faces, but it does keep them in the realistic hunt for the division.

There should be no question that Dak running the ball more needs to be a part of the offense. Every time the Cowboys and Dak have looked on the verge of being a legit contender, it's usually when he's running it enough to keep the defense honest.

If DaRon Bland holds onto that sure pick-six on the play before Dallas muffed the punt, there's really no drama in the final 8-9 minutes of the game. The defense had a good game....it wasn't great, but it was good against a really good offense. Herbert missed a couple deep throws to Keenan Allen, but the Cowboys also were pressuring him all night. On one of them it looked like he had happy feet and rushed the throw when he didn't need to. That's the kind of stuff that can happen when you are consistently getting pressure. The pressure also caused the last INT to Gilmore.
 

TFisNEXT

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So many penalties. But that was a really hard hitting game on both sides. Take that win and run.
If they don't fix the penalties, then they won't go anywhere even if they make the playoffs or win the division. It's been a theme under McCarthy, but last year they really reduced the penalties big time down the stretch which had some pundits thinking maybe they could sustain it which would make a big difference.

So far in 2023, they are 2nd worst in penalties per game and 7th worst in penalty yards per game. So it's regressed back to McCarthy's baseline. You might even live with the penalties if he got other stuff right, but his other weaknesses were on display last night as well:

1. He didn't try to run another play from inside the 15 yard line with 8 seconds left in the half and a timeout. I get not being reckless, but you gotta trust your offense there. You don't have a bottom-feeder offense. It has consistently been in the top 10 (frequently top 5ish) since you arrived in Dallas. He also let the clock tick off about 20 seconds a couple plays before that. A competent time-management there should have produced several legit shots at the end zone.

2. Sticking with the draw run up the middle that wasn't there the entire night. I get that the draw is a bread and butter run for the Dallas offense, but you have speed with Pollard (and even Turpin)....why are you not at least trying to get him the ball on the edge more if the middle isn't working? Passing the ball was quite effective too. He still seems too stubborn rather than adjusting to the game. I'm not advocating abandoning the draw after a couple series....but they should have mixed in more edge runs and other types of "defacto" run plays in the 2nd half.

3. Situational awareness....this one is partially on Dak too, but McCarthy is the guy who needs to be screaming to him......after the botched substitution by LAC gave Dallas a clean 25 sec play clock with 2:40 left, they snapped it almost right away instead of ticking it down to 2:15ish before snapping (or forcing LAC to use one of their last 2 TOs).....it didn't come back to haunt them, but it certainly could have.
 

Kliq

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Bumbling Mike McCarthy backing his way into being 60 games over .500 for his career and 170 career wins. Has there ever been a coach whose career record is so different than their public perception?
 

TFisNEXT

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Bumbling Mike McCarthy backing his way into being 60 games over .500 for his career and 170 career wins. Has there ever been a coach whose career record is so different than their public perception?
That’s a good one to think about. Maybe Marty Schottenheimer post-Cleveland? He coached a lot of good teams too after CLE. Though I still recall people mostly respecting Marty in a way you never see with McCarthy.
 

Kliq

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That’s a good one to think about. Maybe Marty Schottenheimer post-Cleveland? He coached a lot of good teams too after CLE. Though I still recall people mostly respecting Marty in a way you never see with McCarthy.
Yeah, plus McCarthy has a ring. I get him being in GB with Rodgers carrying him to great records every year, but now he's in Dallas and still winning a lot of games, yet if anything his reputation as a hapless oaf has only increased.
 

Oil Can Dan

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McCarthy man. Is there any other coach in the entire league that has two time outs in his pocket on the opponents 37 yard line and a running clock with 50 seconds left that decides "nah, let's just let 20 seconds run off the clock", and THEN after a penalty puts the ball on the 14 and the friggin road team's clock operator takes it upon themselves to stop the clock with 8 seconds left because OF COURSE Dallas is going to call a TO only to have McCarthy say "no, I don't care for a free attempt at a TD here you can wind the clock down to 3 and we'll just kick the FG". WTF?

I mean I know there's more to it and there's just a ton of stuff behind the scenes that all matters but I can't understand how Jones is content with this guy at the helm.
 

TFisNEXT

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Yeah, plus McCarthy has a ring. I get him being in GB with Rodgers carrying him to great records every year, but now he's in Dallas and still winning a lot of games, yet if anything his reputation as a hapless oaf has only increased.
Yeah it’s an interesting dynamic…but I don’t think McCarthy has done enough to dispel the skepticism of him being more a product of his environment…perhaps even to its detriment. We all know what he had in Green Bay but while he did inherit a Dallas team that went 8-8 the previous year, they had a +113 point differential and the high-performing offense was largely unchanged schematically with Kellen Moore staying through last year.

I think he has some decent values as a head coach…the players seem to generally play hard for him, etc. But there’s so many other glaring weaknesses that you wonder if he’s a net negative. I’ve generally tried to give him an honest chance judging him in Dallas, but I can see how after a few seasons where he got the late-stage GB reputation from.
 

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If I'm going to take shots at the coaching staff in here, then it's only fair to point out some positives.....

The worry early in the year was the Cowboys were being too stubborn running the ball. That trend has reversed the past few games. The Cowboys have started passing a lot more aggressively...and the results have been good. Brandon Cooks has started playing a bigger role to compliment CeeDee and we're seeing Ferguson getting more looks as well as he tries to take over the Dalton Schultz role from last year.

Pass_trend.jpg


Dak is playing very well again this year....but the only way for him to shut up his critics is to win in the playoffs beyond the wildcard round. Fair or not, that's how most QBs eventually get judged....especially in Dallas where you are always under a microscope.

QBscore_week8_@023.jpg
 

TFisNEXT

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Re-watched most of the game today:

1. Terrence Steele had an absolutely horrific game. Got beat continuously. He's not right coming off the injury last year....wonder if they try out Edoga at RT or see if La'el Collins has anything left? OTOH, Tyron Smith was an absolute beast at LT returning from injury. I think I counted like 3 pancakes when I wasn't even looking for them and he allowed zero pressures.

2. Dak absolutely balled yesterday....had a number of awesome throws and was the reason they had a shot to win at the end despite all sorts of problems running the ball and the defense being useless in the red zone. He drove them from his own 15 with zero timeouts into a position to steal that game. Only nitpick was he's gotta find a way to not take that sack with 27 sec left....I know he had very little time with Steele getting punked on that play, but you're at the 11 yard line....quick read and throws there.

3. Wish the refs would let the guys play a little more...I'm not gonna blame the refs for a loss, but there were some ridiculous calls in that game that detracted from the exciting finish. A lot of ticky tack bullshit.

4. DAL safeties had their worst game of the season. If they play just a bit better over the top, Dallas wins that game. Pass rush was actually pretty good, but the safeties were giving too much room down the field. You gotta trust your rush to get home in this defense.

5. Ferg is becoming a real weapon at TE. I'm thinking he goes full Dalton Schultz by season's end. CeeDee Lamb also had an insanely good game....he started asking for the ball early this season and now he's being vindicated....the guy is a beast when you give him targets. (11 catches for 191 on 15 or 16 targets I think)

6. Dallas could've easily recovered all 3 of those Philly fumbles but recovered zero of them....no real analysis on that, other than it sucks and likely recovering just one of them might have changed the outcome.



Cowboys are a good team, but their path with this loss is considerably harder now. If you assume they don't win the NFC East, then it's another playoffs of all road games.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Cowboys are a good team, but their path with this loss is considerably harder now. If you assume they don't win the NFC East, then it's another playoffs of all road games.
I've rewatched the game as well and I also think Dak played great. That said I think he had a tough last drive there. He Flacco'd the first play that netted them 35 yards, then he hit a nice 10 yard out that included a 15 yard 'roughing' the passer call. So 60 yards in under 10 seconds on two plays but nothing particularly noteworthy from a QB perspective. The main problem is that he then takes that terrible, terrible sack. You have to throw that ball away. Then he compounds it by panicking and not spiking the ball and instead leaves only 5 seconds on the clock after throwing a pass pretty much out of the back of the end zone. Then takes a 5 yard delay of game penalty (I think that was on him not the coaches but who knows) before hitting Lamb short of the end zone, which you just cannot do. You have to throw that ball into the end zone and hope Lamb can high point it. I mean if you're not going to do that then you at least need to have someone behind Lamb that he can lateral to or something...

But I too thought Dak played really well despite that last drive.

With the Cowboys having NYG, @CAR, WAS & SEA and Philly having @KC, BUF, SF I will not be the slightest bit surprised to see both teams at 9-3 or even Dallas at 9-3 and Philly at 8-4 when Philly comes to Dallas. The division is a total tossup at this point.
 

TFisNEXT

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I've rewatched the game as well and I also think Dak played great. That said I think he had a tough last drive there. He Flacco'd the first play that netted them 35 yards, then he hit a nice 10 yard out that included a 15 yard 'roughing' the passer call. So 60 yards in under 10 seconds on two plays but nothing particularly noteworthy from a QB perspective. The main problem is that he then takes that terrible, terrible sack. You have to throw that ball away. Then he compounds it by panicking and not spiking the ball and instead leaves only 5 seconds on the clock after throwing a pass pretty much out of the back of the end zone. Then takes a 5 yard delay of game penalty (I think that was on him not the coaches but who knows) before hitting Lamb short of the end zone, which you just cannot do. You have to throw that ball into the end zone and hope Lamb can high point it. I mean if you're not going to do that then you at least need to have someone behind Lamb that he can lateral to or something...

But I too thought Dak played really well despite that last drive.

With the Cowboys having NYG, @CAR, WAS & SEA and Philly having @KC, BUF, SF I will not be the slightest bit surprised to see both teams at 9-3 or even Dallas at 9-3 and Philly at 8-4 when Philly comes to Dallas. The division is a total tossup at this point.
Yeah I didn’t like the sack either but he had almost no time on that. I still think he prob should’ve chucked it through the end zone because grounding is rarely called when you do that but it’s hard for me to kill him there. Steele has to not get beat so damned easily …it wasn’t a blitz so there were no hot reads.

As for division being a tossup…it might look close when the two face off again but we have to remember that after the second Philly/Dallas game, Philly gets a bunch of creampuffs (like DAL does coming up) while DAL plays @MIA, @BUF and then hosts DET. So even in a scenario where DAL takes the division lead after the second matchup, it’s going to be very hard for them to keep it. They really needed to win on Sunday.
 

TFisNEXT

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That was a pretty crazy game last night. The defense getting lit up by Geno Smith wasn’t on my bingo card but Dak and the offense were crazy good that it didn’t end up mattering and they won anyway. Dallas only had one possession that didn’t result in a score and it was a failed 4th and 2 at the SEA 30 yard line where CeeDee dropped a ball right in his hands.

Secondary looked a bit lethargic…werent swarming to the ball like they normally do. A couple of us in the week 13 game thread were wondering if playing their 3rd game in 11 days was part of it (SEA defense didn’t exactly look fresh either and they were in same boat)….but hard to say for sure. They get 10 days off until hosting Philly so we’ll see. Despite the secondary struggles, the pass rush was still very strong…Geno was getting the ball out super quick all night and he had to for the most part.

Ferguson is becoming a real weapon at TE which seems to be opening up the offense for the WRs more than earlier in the season and Dak isn’t missing many throws right now. He’s playing as good as he’s ever played.

But as usual, this team will be judged by how they play in January.
 

Greg29fan

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Looks like the turd the defense laid against Seattle was a lot more three games in 11 days than a big issue - they were awesome tonight.

Tough games coming up @ Buffalo and @ Miami and then home against Detroit.
 

TFisNEXT

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Looks like the turd the defense laid against Seattle was a lot more three games in 11 days than a big issue - they were awesome tonight.

Tough games coming up @ Buffalo and @ Miami and then home against Detroit.
Kind of a shame that there’s a decent chance the cowboys go 13-4 and won’t get a home game in the playoffs.
 

TFisNEXT

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Also a decent chance they’re at SF in the divisional.
Yeah no doubt the path to the Superbowl is going to go through SF. They are the one team that Dallas hasn't been able to exploit with their offense. They've diced up other good defenses, but the last 3 times they have faced the 49ers, the offense sputtered. They just don't seem to match up well.

Though a rematch would be interesting given how crazy good the Dallas offense has been since the bye week this year.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I'm not sure if it's better to be the #1 seed or the 2. You'd obviously love the bye, but if you're the 1 you're probably facing the #5 seed, which will be Philly or more likely Dallas. If you're the 2 seed you've got to play an extra playoff game but it's probably against Minnesota/Tampa/New Orleans/GB on your turf, and then after that game you've probably got Detroit on your cold, outdoor turf.

I guess I'm saying I think I'd rather face #7 seed, Detroit then SF/Dal winner instead of week off, Dallas then SF.
 

TFisNEXT

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I'm not sure if it's better to be the #1 seed or the 2. You'd obviously love the bye, but if you're the 1 you're probably facing the #5 seed, which will be Philly or more likely Dallas. If you're the 2 seed you've got to play an extra playoff game but it's probably against Minnesota/Tampa/New Orleans/GB on your turf, and then after that game you've probably got Detroit on your cold, outdoor turf.

I guess I'm saying I think I'd rather face #7 seed, Detroit then SF/Dal winner instead of week off, Dallas then SF.
You always take the bye. Regardless of who you might face in the divisional round. Avoiding the small (but still significant…even if only 20%) chance of losing in the first round totally dwarfs any advantage you might have against a weaker divisional round opponent.

Plus it’s one less game you are exposed to a starter getting injured.
 

Cellar-Door

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You always take the bye. Regardless of who you might face in the divisional round. Avoiding the small (but still significant…even if only 20%) chance of losing in the first round totally dwarfs any advantage you might have against a weaker divisional round opponent.

Plus it’s one less game you are exposed to a starter getting injured.
yep I'd rather play DAL fully healthy than play twice, the second one with all the accumulated injuries from the 1st. Have we had a single week so far this year when at least 1 starting QB did not get injured? Expand that to starting QB or #1 WR, #1 RB, #1 CB, #1 Pass rusher and the answer is probably we haven't had a week with less than 2 or 3 of those type of guys going down.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I honestly think I'd rather have the Philly path in this scenario:

SF 1 seed
BYE
Dallas
Philly

Philly 2 seed
Minnesota
Detroit
SF/Dallas winner

(unless Chicago gets the 7 seed - I want no part of Chicago right now)
 

johnmd20

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To be clear, it's not even a question. The bye is a massive advantage. You cannot plan for or predict future matchups.(and be careful of what you wish for)

But having to win 2 games, at home, to make the SB is a distinct advantage against the teams who have to win 3, and on the road for 2 of those games, probably.
 

Oil Can Dan

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To be clear, it's not even a question. The bye is a massive advantage. You cannot plan for or predict future matchups.(and be careful of what you wish for)

But having to win 2 games, at home, to make the SB is a distinct advantage against the teams who have to win 3, and on the road for 2 of those games, probably.
How would they have any more than one (potential) road game?
 

TFisNEXT

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How would they have any more than one (potential) road game?
SF probably wouldn’t….it’s either 1 or 2 for them barring another unforeseen tailspin ala mid-season…but a week ago theoretically it seemed plausible they could finish behind Detroit too and go in as the 3 seed.

But imho John’s point still stands. Take one less game and guarantee homefield in the NFC championship game if you get there over trying to play a hypothetical easier opponent in the divisional round risking a loss and/or injuries in the wildcard round.
 

Oil Can Dan

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I’m comparing the pros and cons of the 1 seed vs the 2 seed. It’s not possible for either team to play two road games. And if Dallas goes to SF and wins you play zero road games.

It’s home games against Min (or the like) & Detroit as the 2 seed vs bye then home game vs Dallas as the 1. I get the value of the bye for rest and injury avoidance reasons, but I’m not convinced the 1 is better to have than the 2 here.
 

johnmd20

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I’m comparing the pros and cons of the 1 seed vs the 2 seed. It’s not possible for either team to play two road games. And if Dallas goes to SF and wins you play zero road games.

It’s home games against Min (or the like) & Detroit as the 2 seed vs bye then home game vs Dallas as the 1. I get the value of the bye for rest and injury avoidance reasons, but I’m not convinced the 1 is better to have than the 2 here.
There is not a single person on Dallas who would prefer the 2 seed over the 1 seed. There is not a person in football who would rather not have the bye. Not a player, not an executive, not a water boy.

It's 50% less games played to make the Super Bowl. You're not correct here. The math is wrong, the injury risk is wrong, the Championship game on the road is wrong, the lack of extra rest is wrong.

There is no pro to not getting the bye. It's all con.
 

tims4wins

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There is not a single person on Dallas who would prefer the 2 seed over the 1 seed. There is not a person in football who would rather not have the bye. Not a player, not an executive, not a water boy.

It's 50% less games played to make the Super Bowl. You're not correct here. The math is wrong, the injury risk is wrong, the Championship game on the road is wrong, the lack of extra rest is wrong.

There is no pro to not getting the bye. It's all con.
33%. Fewer.
 

TFisNEXT

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There is not a single person on Dallas who would prefer the 2 seed over the 1 seed. There is not a person in football who would rather not have the bye. Not a player, not an executive, not a water boy.

It's 50% less games played to make the Super Bowl. You're not correct here. The math is wrong, the injury risk is wrong, the Championship game on the road is wrong, the lack of extra rest is wrong.

There is no pro to not getting the bye. It's all con.
I also think OilCan is overrating the chances that the “expected” matchups even happen…what if #3 seed DET gets upset in the first round?(certainly a possibility given the way DET has been playing the last few weeks) Now you play DAL as the 2 seed anyway (with no extra week of rest) and you now need help to get a home NFCCG.

Just too many what-ifs to even consider giving up guaranteed homefield and play one less game.
 

Greg29fan

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Real teams don't have one game like that let alone three of them. They just can't figure out how to play on the road.
 

BigSoxFan

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Real teams don't have one game like that let alone three of them. They just can't figure out how to play on the road.
Definitely has the feeling of another front running Cowboys team. The talent is once again there but, man, they looked awful today. They’ll probably be fine against whatever scrub NFC South team wins the division but they’d then likely have to win in both Philly and SF to make the SB. That feels like a really tall order.
 

TFisNEXT

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Nope, don’t do it. They win those games. Shoot, they even ended the GOAT’s career.
Yeah I don’t see this Dallas team losing to a tomato can either indoors or in good weather.

But today’s game just reinforced the narrative they can’t beat the big boys on the road. Just a few too many of these types of complete no-show games.
 

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Yeah I don’t see this Dallas team losing to a tomato can either indoors or in good weather.

But today’s game just reinforced the narrative they can’t beat the big boys on the road. Just a few too many of these types of complete no-show games.
It really is amazing how little the Cowboys have to show for the Romo/Dak era. All of the same issues that they had during Romo era continue to be present with Dak and crew.
 

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This happens Every. Single. Season. It’s hilarious and I love it but the talk in this thread is all academic. The Cowboys will fail to make the NFC championship game, and the same conversation will be being had in December 2024, the same conversation that’s been had about the Cowboys for about 30 years.
 

Greg29fan

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I know zero real Cowboy fans who ever get delusional about their chances or saying "We Dem Boyz this is our year" any year. That's all media perpetuated hogwash.
 

TFisNEXT

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I know zero real Cowboy fans who ever get delusional about their chances or saying "We Dem Boyz this is our year" any year. That's all media perpetuated hogwash.
There’s always a few obnoxious “low information” fans who do that but most true diehards are very aware of the team’s shortcomings.

This year’s version might be the most frustrating though since the 2007 team. They are elite offensively and while the defense has some weakness at times, they have an elite pass rush which can do well in the playoffs and they might have the best place kicker this side of Opera Man (Tucker). So on paper, they look like a top 3-5 team.

But none of us trust them to execute in a hostile environment against another contender. At home? Sure. But unless they get lucky, it’s all road games again this year.
 

TFisNEXT

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Hard to know how to feel about that game yesterday. On one hand, another loss to a very good team on the road, but OTOH, they probably should have won that game. Fumbling (and not recovering) on first and goal at the half yard line is about as brutal of a break as you can possibly get in a game.

The offense was once again not consistent away from their home stadium but Dak got them the TD when they needed it late in the 4th quarter.

I will never blame the refs for a loss because there’s always a million other factors at play, but the Micah Parsons situation is starting to become ridiculous. Even fans I know who loathe the Cowboys were texting me how they can’t believe how many holding calls against him go uncalled. Parsons leads the NFL in win rate for edge rushers and he’s now gone 9 consecutive games without drawing a single holding penalty. That’s patently absurd. Maybe the worm will turn in the playoffs when they need it. But who knows.

Honestly though, I think the Cowboys need to win the division in order to go far. They just aren’t the same team on the road for whatever reason. The irony is before the last 2 seasons, the Cowboys didn’t have a huge homefield advantage, but it’s become a monster split since last year.
Here’s how they win the division:

1 Philly loss in their final 3 games and the Cowboys win their final 2. Cowboys would actually own the tiebreaker in that scenario.
 

TFisNEXT

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Cowboys now control their own destiny for the 2 seed after Philly’s ugly loss at home to the Cardinals.

Dallas just needs to win at Washington next week. Easier said than done though. But they have everything to play for so there’s going to be no excuses. Getting the 2 seed is even more important for Dallas than usual given their home/road splits.
 

BigSoxFan

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Cowboys now control their own destiny for the 2 seed after Philly’s ugly loss at home to the Cardinals.

Dallas just needs to win at Washington next week. Easier said than done though. But they have everything to play for so there’s going to be no excuses. Getting the 2 seed is even more important for Dallas than usual given their home/road splits.
Washington wants to lose and they really suck so I think Cowboys will roll despite the road struggles. Funny how 2 of Arizona’s wins were against Dallas and Philly.
 

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I don't think they can waltz into SF and beat the 49ers (though I didn't think that in 1993 either) but two division titles and three playoff appearances in three years is nothing to sneeze at, and it's obviously very important that a good home team is hosting.

Now maybe they can slay the 900 pound gorilla the Packers have been to them.
 

TFisNEXT

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If the Packers somehow win, does that spell the end for McCarthy?
I normally would say yes but I think it honestly might depend on how they lost. If it was due to clear blunders by McCarthy like some of his previous losses where he was overly conservative, then it would.

But he’s really been more aggressive this year overall to the pleasant surprise of many Cowboys fans. McCarthy taking over the offense wasn’t the downgrade many feared…it seems like he’s only improved it. I think the glaring issue that remains for Dallas is the penalties.

Well that, and Stephon Gilmores health. He had a shoulder injury today and didn’t return so that could be a huge deal….he already said it wouldn’t keep him out next week but you still have to worry if it limits him.