I'm honestly curious what TE you wanted them to draft, because almost everyone who went today I think would struggle to make the 53 next year. I like Durham the most of the ones who went today, but even him I think the upside is mostly JAG. He's nowhere near the class of the two guys we have and I doubt next year he'd be more than a backup. They missed the run yesterday, and that's fine, it happens and they chose to go with White.I was an A after the first three rounds but thought today was terrible. They really needed to address the TE position which historically takes a year or two before they are productive and instead they drafted 12 IOL after taking one in the first round last year, seemed like a "Strange" investment of resources. I think they have a serviceable offense in 23 but 24 the cupboard is going to be bare but at least we won't run out of guards.
Boutte is fine as a 6th rd pick but I hope people don't expect much, he was the 2nd leading receiver on his team barely beating out a TE. He has not been the same since his ankle injury.
I think they are going spread offense, and Gesicki will essentially be a big WR. Gesicki be the favorite target and have a career year in terms of catches and yards. In essence, he'll be the new Meyers. He won't be any better of a blocker but they won't be lining him up on the line. His snaps and catches fell in Miami because they had 2 great receivers - he was still #3 on the team in targets, catches, and TD catches.What bunch of #2 guys? Juju? When has Bourne been a #2? The guy has had 50 catches in a season 1 time in his career (2021 with the Pats) and is coming off a 35 catch season and FTR, I am a big Bourne guy. Parker's last 4 seasons reception totals have dropped from 72-63-40-31, and he just turned 30 years old. Tyquan hasnt proven himself a #2. Is Agholor still on the roster? He fucking blows.
Even if I call all those guys #2's, it's still a bad receiving corps, and I don't understand how anyone can argue differently. It's bad, it's not good, and compared to every playoff team in the league last year, except maybe the Giants, its fucking dreadful.
Gesicki and Henry cannot block. Henry has gone from 60 catches to 50 to 41 over the last 3 seasons. Gesicki's blocking is so bad that Miami could only put him on the field for 45% of their offensive snaps, and instead gave 57% of the offensive snaps to Durham Smythe at tight end. Gesicki had 32 catches for 362 yards and 5tds last season. The year before he came to New England, Jonnu had 41 for 448 and 8td's. Folks were excited about his pass catching ability, but once he got here, and Bill realized he couldn't block...What do we think Bill is going to do after Gesicki blows multiple blocking assignments early in the season.
This is a bad receiving corps, and in the case of the tight ends, they might be able to catch, but we're going to need a ball control offense given the dearth of actual weapons we have, and they can't block anyone.
A for me as well. Yes, I would have liked a TE and an OT. But they drafted a lot of athleticism up and down the board. No Jordan Richards types. The days of watching Malcolm Bryant be forced into matchups he can't handle may be over. Kayshoun Boutte and Demario Douglas seem like great late round flyers at WR.Now that the draft has come and gone, what is your final grade? (For rounds 1-3, SoSH voted A- as the final grade.)
As the final grade, I upgraded from an A- to a solid A for getting some much-needed ST help in later rounds and bolstering the IOL depth.
Also, still can't believe Gonzalez fell to #17!
That seems like too much of a drop for one late round player.B+. Was ready to give a solid A/A+ with the curve, but they had Luepke sitting right there and they blew it. Drops about .5-.75 of a grade for me.
Yeah I thought a couple TE were still available but the only one left on day 3 that I liked was Kuntz who went late to NYJ. Will be interesting to see if he amounts to anything.I'm honestly curious what TE you wanted them to draft, because almost everyone who went today I think would struggle to make the 53 next year. I like Durham the most of the ones who went today, but even him I think the upside is mostly JAG. He's nowhere near the class of the two guys we have and I doubt next year he'd be more than a backup. They missed the run yesterday, and that's fine, it happens and they chose to go with White.
I think K and P are very much not fungible personally. Good ST play is a huge advantage and teams that ignore it always seem to fail.I think the grade has to be in the A range. They got top end talent at the beginning of the draft and didn't have any picks that were true reaches. If they can get Sow to play tackle and end up hitting on Boutte, it's a solid A. Funny to me that many seem happy with drafting a kicker and punter, two of the most fungible positions.
I voted A. This year's picks seem to reflect Belichick's philosophy from years ago: build a strong defense, couple that with a ball-control offense, and win with turnovers and special teams.
And 2 years ago with significantly less talent that they have now they were top 10 in both. Coaching, injuries, and poor execution hurt a lot last year.A ball-control offense implies a team that can get first downs and complete third downs. This team was bottom-10 in both categories last year. The formula works when you have Tom Brady. This offense is anything but ball-control when it goes three and out over and over. If this is BB's plan for the year, this is going to be ugly unless BOB and Mac find some sort of magic.
And one year ago the starting QB got benched because he was completely ineffective.And 2 years ago with significantly less talent that they have now they were top 10 in both. Coaching, injuries, and poor execution hurt a lot last year.
I apologize. This was said in jest (mostly ). However, I would've quite liked to have seen them draft him because I think he'd be an interesting athlete to watch play regularly and he was a draft binkie, so I was rooting hard for them to grab him.That seems like too much of a drop for one late round player.
Not sure you need to draft for it though. I don't think it's a terrible use of resources in the mid to late rounds and you have a much better chance of hitting on one than hitting on something like a TE or CB so I get the logic. There is evidence to back up not drafting one though, especially placekickers.I think K and P are very much not fungible personally. Good ST play is a huge advantage and teams that ignore it always seem to fail.
I think worrying about kickoffs when the entire division and half of the conference can run up and down our field for touchdowns (that we can't match) is a bit misplaced, but that's just me. We have Allen and Rodgers twice. FML.Not sure you need to draft for it though. I don't think it's a terrible use of resources in the mid to late rounds and you have a much better chance of hitting on one than hitting on something like a TE or CB so I get the logic. There is evidence to back up not drafting one though, especially placekickers.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28990207/nfl-draft-conundrum-using-pick-kicker-complicated-decision
http://insidethepylon.com/football-science/football-statistics/2016/05/26/data-based-approach-drafting-kickers-punters/
As an aside, I am probably alone in thinking that finding high end talent at these positions only works to embolden BB's steadfast conservatism. Having Nick Folk kick 23 yard field goals won't win you many games, but it will lose you some. Teams with great offenses tend to (and should) deemphasize kicking (both punting and placekicking), so I'm not sure how important it is for them. Now I realize the Patriots are far from a great offense but the problem becomes somewhat cyclical and self-reinforcing. If I think my offense sucks and never take risks (on 4th down), my offense will suck.
It may be worth noting that they have hit on immediate OL starters in the late rounds before: Mike Onwenu in the 6th (2020), Shaq Mason in the 4th (2015), David Andrews as a UDFA (2015). In higher rounds over that span they have hit Thuney (3rd, 2016), Wynn (1st, 2018), and Strange (1st, 2022).They did nothing to address the offense. Yea they got OL depth, and that's fine, but they need more than depth. I like that that they took a kicker and punter.
Maybe, but I would rather do a pick like that on an athelte than on a Tavon Wilson or Jordan Richards, so I'm good with it for now.And the Mapu pick feels like a "smartest guy in the room" reach, and that annoys me.
Part of the bet on the offense here is that O'Brien can take essentially the same personal with a couple of small upgrades and build something better than what Judge and Patricia could do.A ball-control offense implies a team that can get first downs and complete third downs. This team was bottom-10 in both categories last year. The formula works when you have Tom Brady. This offense is anything but ball-control when it goes three and out over and over. If this is BB's plan for the year, this is going to be ugly unless BOB and Mac find some sort of magic.
I think that the Pats absolutely execrable punting last year with Bailey and Palardy, along with their inability to get touchbacks on kickoffs, might have made the difference in a couple of games. with all the picks they had this year I think it was worth it to draft a K and a P, if there were ones they liked.Not sure you need to draft for it though. I don't think it's a terrible use of resources in the mid to late rounds and you have a much better chance of hitting on one than hitting on something like a TE or CB so I get the logic. There is evidence to back up not drafting one though, especially placekickers.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28990207/nfl-draft-conundrum-using-pick-kicker-complicated-decision
http://insidethepylon.com/football-science/football-statistics/2016/05/26/data-based-approach-drafting-kickers-punters/
As an aside, I am probably alone in thinking that finding high end talent at these positions only works to embolden BB's steadfast conservatism. Having Nick Folk kick 23 yard field goals won't win you many games, but it will lose you some. Teams with great offenses tend to (and should) deemphasize kicking (both punting and placekicking), so I'm not sure how important it is for them. Now I realize the Patriots are far from a great offense but the problem becomes somewhat cyclical and self-reinforcing. If I think my offense sucks and never take risks (on 4th down), my offense will suck.
In the final game, Buffalo beat the Pats 35-23. Allen had 3 TD passes and Nyheim Hines returned 2 kickoffs for TDs. A kicker who could get touchbacks might have made a difference there.I think worrying about kickoffs when the entire division and half of the conference can run up and down our field for touchdowns (that we can't match) is a bit misplaced, but that's just me. We have Allen and Rodgers twice. FML.
Not understanding how important the kicking game is Fantasy Football mentality. Too put it as simply as I can, giving your opponent short fields to work with is bad.I think worrying about kickoffs when the entire division and half of the conference can run up and down our field for touchdowns (that we can't match) is a bit misplaced, but that's just me. We have Allen and Rodgers twice. FML.
Yeah, but they could have packaged those picks to either move up on Day 2 or move into Day 2. They didn't "end up" with 9 Day 3 picks, that was a deliberate choice.As for the P/K picks: the Pats ended up with 9 day 3 picks. Based on their position, at most 1 or 2 position players picked in those slots will become regular contributors, reserves, and/or special teamers in their rookie season (and if 1 or 2 more become regular contributors after that, then Bill would have hit an absolute home run). The rest will be either riding the practice squad shuffle, placed on IR, or will be cut outright. So using 2 of those picks on specialists, especially when those roster spots are an area of serious need, is not at all a bad use of resources.
I understand the importance of the kicking game, I was mostly being facetious.Not understanding how important the kicking game is Fantasy Football mentality. Too put it as simply as I can, giving your opponent short fields to work with is bad.
I get wanting some new toys but the Pats did an amazing job. I voted A+. Possible number 1 corner? Check. A guy who might provide consistent interior pressure? Yup. Someone who profiles to be perfect to cover tight ends and anyone coming into the middle of the zone where they’ve been awful? Uh huh. Beef on the OL? Got it. A ridiculously high upside receiver? Actually, yes.
I would have liked them to grab one of the RBs or TEs, I thought both classes were pretty deep, but it’s not how the draft fell in their eyes. I think they nailed what they’ve needed on defense to put it over the top.
The offense will be fine. Patricia and Judge belonged nowhere near that side of the ball. It was a neat idea but it failed. Bill did what he always does and tries to ride it out, as stubborn as that is; I get it. Having a competent staff on that side of the ball is going to be a major difference. Those meetings are going to be more of what those guys are used to and not whatever the hell they were trying to do last year. No one was on the same page. BOB will bring alignment.
But there also needs to be opportunity and desire to move up. There would have to be a player that the team liked in day 2, and a trading partner willing to do a deal for that particular slot. Sometimes a player that a team is closely watching comes off the board before they can even arrange a deal.Yeah, but they could have packaged those picks to either move up on Day 2 or move into Day 2. They didn't "end up" with 9 Day 3 picks, that was a deliberate choice.
I agree. I also think that he's likely to be a good fit alongside what we have. Has some size, so can handle certain assignments that we would not want to give to our smaller young CBs. Maybe he is the CB who gets single coverage assigments so that other CBs can have more help. He's not known for INTs, but we have others (Marcus and Jack Jones) who may be better at that.- Gonzalez - total stud, should start from day one (or close to it) and be a fixture in the secondary for years and years. All Pro potential (will be difficult to realize that potential because there's other really good CBs in the NFL obviously, but he has that kind of ability).
Does White start, with 3 other edge rushers? I am wondering if he is more of a developmental pick/eventual replacement? Maybe because of his sie he is in the base defense (that seldom plays because the league is so passing oriented)? Inside sub-rusher is a role for him, but would he knock Wise out of the front four on passing downs?White - physical specimen who really, really has talent. I can see him excelling opposite Judon right away and being a starter. They now have four excellent rushers in Judon, Uche, White, and Wise. Pro Bowl potential.
Another developmental guy? But I like this because of athleticism.Mapu - I didn't know much about the guy and when they drafted him I initially had that, "Wait, who?" reaction. But it didn't take very long before I was sold on this guy. The ESPN talking heads LOVED the pick, which meant at least that he was a guy they had done their homework on. And the more I read about him the more I thought, this guy could be a huge weapon for them. We'll see how it shakes out but still. Tons of ability.
I like adding depth on the line. The late corners feel like ST/practice squad, but, again, they are going for athleticism with these picks which is good. Some PS guys eventually do develop into quality players.The offensive linemen - Andrews plays G or C and the write up on him was solid. Sow plays G or T and looks like an absolute mauler. Mafi may not have the lateral quickness I'd like in an OL, but he is powerful and blows people off the ball, so we'll see how that goes. I doubt all three will play for NE. I think it's pretty likely that two of them make the squad and are really good players when all is said and done. Now, I think they needed tackles more than interior OL, but it looks like Sow can move outside, and the Pats must be ok with what they have for the moment. All three of these guys look like they play mean.
- Boutte and Douglas - Boutte, as everyone has been saying, has absolute first round talent. His hands worry me a little with the drop rate, but the guy is EXPLOSIVE. And at 6'0", 205 lbs, he is strong. I think he could be a huge weapon for them, assuming he actually reaches the vast potential he has. But for a later round WR pick, it's hard to do much better than this. As for Douglas...I saw him in person when Liberty played UConn this year. UConn had a good defense this year (so it wasn't like playing 1-win UConn in past seasons). He had 8 receptions for 70 yards, and 2 rushes for 105 yards and a TD. He also added 3 kickoff returns for 53 yards, so he finished with 228 all purpose yards. He's small (just 165 pounds) but quick and has good burst. For another late round WR pick, he's got a shot here.
- The corners - Aside from Gonzalez, they picked up Speed and Bolden at corner. Speed is very big for a corner (6'3", 210) and plays with physicality. Bolden is better served as an outside corner. Both have talent. We know how good NE is at developing corners so both of these guys have a shot too.
I went with A as well.Long story short, I absolutely can see a world where this turns out to be a home run, never mind just a "successful" draft. They drafted tons of talent and tons of athleticism and even though they didn't get a tackle, or an early round WR, or a TE, they DID address WR with two guys who have a real chance, and some OL that will help. So long story short....I give them an A. Not an A+, because they did some things that still had me shaking my head, but still. In the end....a job well done. Oh, and adding Cunningham at QB as an UDFA....just the cherry on top.
Do we know that there were deals there to be had?Yeah, but they could have packaged those picks to either move up on Day 2 or move into Day 2. They didn't "end up" with 9 Day 3 picks, that was a deliberate choice.
If you want to have a chance to slown down the offenses in the division you need a good defense and a good special teams. I'm glad they made investments there. If Boutte shows anything and gets over his dropsies, this will be a real good draft. I trust them to get what they can out of the late round DBs and OL.It may be worth noting that they have hit on immediate OL starters in the late rounds before: Mike Onwenu in the 6th (2020), Shaq Mason in the 4th (2015), David Andrews as a UDFA (2015). In higher rounds over that span they have hit Thuney (3rd, 2016), Wynn (1st, 2018), and Strange (1st, 2022).
Maybe, but I would rather do a pick like that on an athelte than on a Tavon Wilson or Jordan Richards, so I'm good with it for now.
Part of the bet on the offense here is that O'Brien can take essentially the same personal with a couple of small upgrades and build something better than what Judge and Patricia could do.
I think that the Pats absolutely execrable punting last year with Bailey and Palardy, along with their inability to get touchbacks on kickoffs, might have made the difference in a couple of games. with all the picks they had this year I think it was worth it to draft a K and a P, if there were ones they liked.
... you need an offense that can go tit for tat. You're delusional if you think anything else wins consistently. How many times do the Bills need to blow the Pats off the field in a playoff game?If you want to have a chance to slown down the offenses in the division you need a good defense and a good special teams. I'm glad they made investments there. If Boutte shows anything and gets over his dropsies, this will be a real good draft. I trust them to get what they can out of the late round DBs and OL.
Is it off field stuff with him, or more effort/coachability issues?FWIW I sat with LSU coaches last week and they seemed to be happy Boutte was out of the building.
So the answer is to add more mediocre offensive players to a mediocre offense?... you need an offense that can go tit for tat. You're delusional if you think anything else wins consistently. How many times do the Bills need to blow the Pats off the field in a playoff game?