2024 Playoffs Western Conference First Round: (3) Minnesota Timberwolves vs (6) Phoenix Suns
- Thread starter InstaFace
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It does feel like the way the game is played now, with so much matchup hunting and leaving guys open who don't pose an offensive threat, that it really matters more who your role players are. Long gone are the days of the Miami Heat starting Joel Anthony and Mario Chalmers in an NBA Finals game--you need to have all five guys on the floor be above average to win in the playoffs. Look at some of these teams in the playoffs that are struggling, particularly the Lakers, Suns and Philly. All teams with star power and top guys who can score, but it really matters if you have some guys out there that really can't get it done. A huge part of the Minnesota vs Phoenix series is just how much better Conley, Naz Reid, and Alexander-Walker are than any of the supporting players for Phoenix.
The Celtics having Al, Prichard, Hauser and even Kornet coming off the bench, in addition to five All-star level starters, is a huge advantage over these other teams, because those guys can really do stuff in a playoff series.
The Celtics having Al, Prichard, Hauser and even Kornet coming off the bench, in addition to five All-star level starters, is a huge advantage over these other teams, because those guys can really do stuff in a playoff series.
Phoenix needs to recoup some value badly, because this team is going absolutely nowhere. They have Booker, so that's a start. Need assets around him.
Can I offer a different interpretation, that you can try on and see if you like the fit?
It has always been incredibly important, if you want to win in the NBA playoffs, that your best players doing lots of things well. That they score, rebound, defend on the ball, defend off the ball, get back on defense, stay engaged through the whole play, etc. etc. etc.
Only a few of these things show up in the stat sheet. But the ones that are a lot harder to quantify are still really important. Even if they're less visible to people who are counting numbers and watching highlights.
The current Suns team appears to be an example of a team that optimized their roster based on things that were visible (e.g. individual player celebrity, number of high-light reel plays, offensive stats) and appears to have more or less ignored all the other stuff. And, predictably, they suck. Because teams build on this model have more or less always sucked.
If you have Devin Booker and Kevin Durant you really don't want someone like Eric Gordon. Because when it matters, Gordon is going to score less effectively than the other two, while also playing no defense.
Since this is a Celtics forum, a Celtics angle: we can be glad that in the years that some Boston fans were clamoring for the team to pay a king's ransom (including trading away Jaylen Brown!) to get Dame Lillard or Bradley Beal, the front office went out and got Derrick White.
Thank you, Brad
absolutely. it’s really really hard to find minutes as an all defense guy these days.
crazy to think two years ago they were pretty short on shooters, now it feels like every rotational guy is a killer from deep.
B...B...But STARZ!!?? I was promised Nirvana if we only had more STARZ.
kurt cobain is not walking through that door. dave grohl is not walking through that door
110% correct.
The fit around Book/Durant has something to be desired, although I like Grayson. Brad Beal has been the PointZ! poster boy for years
It's a good thing the Celtic roster is complete since Nice Guy Brad is getting the phone lines severed with this 3-year heist.
Are any of Brad's recent trade partners very unhappy?
Indy did well in the Brogdon trade.
Washington wasn't getting more for KP.
Portland wishes TL stayed healthy and that they got something for Brogdon, but the GSW pick looks good.
San Antonio got robbed in the DWhite trade (lol at the freakouts over one 2028 pick swap), but that's how they got Wemby.
Honestly, all those teams probably do the deals again.
Agreed on Indy and Washington, since KP had to opt-in to extend his trade value was extremely limited. Portland knowingly took a gamble on two oft-injured players. The GSW pick is probably the single best asset available, but maybe they could have gotten a better deal elsewhere (Miami?) I'm unsure of that one. The Spurs were also a little unlucky with the White trade. Udoka did his now trademark late season hot streak to play the Celtics out of a decent pick. Blake Wesley is improved, but probably not a rotation player on most teams.
Memphis is kicking themselves rights now. They sold low on the GSW pick that they brilliantly picked up in the Andre Iguodala trade and the arrow seems to be pointing down on Smart's productivity.
I forgot about Memphis and the Smart deal. Great case study on not getting sentimental about players inside or outside of your organization.
Wrt Miami and Jrue: it certainly would have made a ton of sense for them to get in on those sweepstakes, and he's a great fit, better contract and better bet to age than Lillard. I didn't see any reporting on them being interested, however, or perhaps Portland was completely stiffing them out of spite.
I saw Heat being interested and being a final 3, but no specific clarity on what they offered. Probably Herro and picks?
Link
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/10/02/celtics-trade-jrue-holiday-nba-basketball-heat-clippers-basketball/
Link
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/10/02/celtics-trade-jrue-holiday-nba-basketball-heat-clippers-basketball/
"Heist" is a little tongue-in-cheek. It always makes me chuckle when I write it (clearly some character flaw I possess)
As far as the Brogdon deal, very fair for both sides. I wrote on the Pacers/Bucks thread (below) about Pritchard's excellent work, he has done a fair bit of heisting, Pritch Slapping the NBA.
I'm still a hair surprised Washington didn't hold a more public Porzingis S&T Auction for ALL the contenders. BUT everyone was focused on DAME DOLLAR! after he demanded a trade. Miami really should have gone after KP, big whiff by Riley. A KP + Bam 4/5 frontcourt would be some serious rim protection.
Wizard fans were like can't we have at least one of those Firsts Brad received in the Smart trade? which was rather humorous, Brad was like you'll take this 2nd rounder and like it! Pinning the Wiz with Gallinari money (I know necessary) was the pièce de résistance to the KP Heist by Brad.
I think the reporting was pretty consistent that the Heat didn't offer Herro.
It's funny that Ainge got raked over the coals for valuing his players too highly when he was right most of the time. Riles and the Heat do the exact same shit, except the players that they value really highly aren't that great and they try to sell everyone scrubs
I'm going to zag a bit here...I think both the Durant and Beal trades weren't good trades. Bridges and Cam Johnson are the types of players that you need in the playoffs. Bridges is a very good #2...
Honestly, I think if you cancel one of those trades the Suns are much better off. Once the Durant trade happened there's just no need for Beal. Bad roster fit and just throwing money away
It has to be the Knicks. Suns have NO assets outside KD and Booker. None. Knicks have the most to give plus KD fits right into what New York is building. The question is if you trade Booker as well because frankly you have almost nothing else around.
Oh yea I agree with you, Brad Beal trade was completely unnecessary for PHX.
The classic 1-ball, too many offensive mouths to feed.
It's like starting Marcus Morris Sr instead of Aron Baynes with Horford, Brown, Tatum & Kyrie...I know, I know I need to let it go
They had to make some move though. They weren't going to win anything with Chris Paul and Landry Shamet. I agree that Beal was a bad get. Wonder who else they could have got?
Someone cheaper (definitely!) and better (fairly likely) and with a more flexible contract (certain)
Kidding aside, without breaking out the trade machine, KP comes to mind...might be too many tall skinny guys but he's worlds better than what they got. Clearly, Malcolm Brogdon wasn't highly-valued in the market---but he's a better player and fit right now than Beal. And that's just off top of my head...
The timing wouldn't have worked out, but Jrue Holiday would've been an excellent fit with Phoenix. He's the sort of player that would fit on literally any contender in the league, but he could fill a very specific need for Phoenix.
Phoenix also didn't have anywhere near the assets to get him. They got Beal cheap because no one wanted his contract.
Redick said it earlier and its proving true. Game three is when these guys get sick of the opposition. That's when we get beef.
Minnesota is legit good. We're already forgetting how many people were sure they'd have trouble with the Suns.
Suns and Lakers (and I’d put Clippers in there as well) are not built to compete with OKC, Wolves, Nuggets. Those teams, along with GS, need to make some radical changes this off-season.
All those teams, and the Heat with Bam, have good to great centers.
The playoffs always get more physical and the Clippers and Suns, especially, don't have the interior bulk they need.
Porzingis has a similar problem with bulkier dudes.
Centers, maybe they aren't endangered after all.
I mean, I'd rather have Healthy Timelord than Herro too, nevermind if Brogdon is also coming along. And we got just enough out of TL in spring 2023 to convince them the odds of seeing him healthy were good.
Opening weekend was a dud, except for NO-OKC, but the games have been great since then. Only MIA-BOS and ORL-CLE have been blowouts, but both of those series are close.
This game is the antithesis of the Knicks/Sixers. Great shot making/no one can get a stop. Much more fun to watch imo.
Great games from Booker and Durant but it's going to be hard to win with the way those 2 are laying bricks. And it's not like they contribute much any other way.
Few moments cooler than when Ant gets by his defender and you’re wondering how violent his dunk is going to be.
Four straight awful possessions for Beal
EDIT
1. turnover
2. turnstile on AE dunk
3. turnover
4. fouled out
Four straight awful possessions for Beal
EDIT
1. turnover
2. turnstile on AE dunk
3. turnover
4. fouled out