So Joely blows the game in the 9th instead of the 10th when he had a platoon advantage?
3/30 - The Road Trip: Game 3
- Thread starter absintheofmalaise
- Start date
I’m going to disagree. It was a terrible decision in any game that counts. They could have put Rodriguez on before Slaton came in the game. The force at home was worth it even if the hitters were even.
Cora re Martin in the 8th: Rodriguez was coming up 4th so you gotta manage around that. Need to get to the 9th tied.
Smh.
Smh.
Especially with a rule 5 guy making his ML debut. But whoever was out there, it just made perfect sense situationally to send him to first.
Per Cora Kenley was not available, tight back. Expected to be available tomorrow. And so it goes.... No one questioned the decision to pitch to Julio. Reporter malpractice.
Good chance we see Devers tomorrow.
Happy Easter to those who celebrate!
Oh man, getting up 2-1 in games over Seattle, in Seattle would have been sweet. Do what you’re suggesting starting Monday in Oakland.
I don’t think I’ve ever been so pissed over blowing a game like this in years. Either Cora has lost it or he doesn’t care anymore.
Fire Kenley's doctor, personal chef, trainers, supplement providers and replace his arm with a PRP tank attached to a propeller.
Waiting for the save on the road is how Zack Britton didn't get into the AL WC game in 2016.
Slaten looked overwhelmed in his ML debut, they were trying to stay away from him in high leverage for a debut which I get. He managed to put Joely into 3/4 against lefties, making the most of a no-win situation, and got BABIP'd plus a really bad error.
Why isn’t that right? Martin ended up getting Crawford and J-Rod. Incredibly frustrating loss, but people are already going off the deep end.
This makes sense in theory, but for a guy who's at least gotten his feet wet. Those were the first pitchers he's ever thrown in the major leagues, and he had only five games in Triple-A.
It's fine except he had an opportunity to manage around Rodriguez in extras and let a Rule 5 kid pitch to him. Makes no sense.
And again, with no follow up from reporters on why they didn't walk him to set up a force at every base with an inferior hitter coming up.
I agree with his use of Martin. I understand his use of Joely, knowing that Kenley was hurt.
There is nothing he could possibly say that would make me think pitching to Julio Rodriguez in that situation was a good idea. Nothing.
LOL Fuck that noise. He would have been in the big leagues pitching to Polanco, too. Just with a manager who was a little less of a fucking moron.
He was fine nibbling until the last pitch.
This is game three and people are calling for firings and behaving as if it means anything. This is going to be a long season. We should just accept the fact that this team faces long odds and if they outperform we will be pleasantly surprised. They were never going to go 161-1 and even contenders lose games like that.
I was good with every decision except pitching to JRod. Now you’re in the big leagues. Does Cora think he is in a movie? Did he tell him to give him the hard stuff as well? What a fucking clown.
The Boston press loves Cora. Bloom gets all the blame for the last two collapses. I think Cora screwing up this season will be good for Breslow. Bailey is the manager in waiting, he had other offers to be a pitching coach, and I presume they have given him assurances he will be considered for the manager position.
It's going to be a long season, and I'm not calling for firings, but Slaten was put in a ridiculously tough spot for his major league debut.
Jansen being unavailable was the real killer, and it's hard to blame Cora for that, but Cora should have left Joely Rodriguez in (he had thrown only 16 pitches), walked Julio Rodriguez to set up a force at every base, and faced Polanco with a L-L matchup.
There’s nothing worse in baseball than a pitcher who doesn’t know where he is throwing the ball.
Platoon splits aren’t worth the cost of the data plan required to look them up on BRef if the pitcher can’t locate anything. Joely is all over the place with middling stuff.
Im not sympathetic to a weak contact argument when he is missing spots up in the zone the whole outing.
Platoon splits aren’t worth the cost of the data plan required to look them up on BRef if the pitcher can’t locate anything. Joely is all over the place with middling stuff.
Im not sympathetic to a weak contact argument when he is missing spots up in the zone the whole outing.
You are right, no doubt. I think some of us are taking these early games more seriously because we fear a bad start will push this team off the cliff before the Summer even starts. This is not a very good team, but I actually find myself liking the group and hope that we can stay alive for as long as possible.
Manage to win the fucking game. If Jansen is unavailable, you adjust accordingly. Martin becomes your de facto closer, and instead of burning him in a tie game on the road in the 8th inning against the bottom of the order, you let Campbell pitch another inning after mowing down the side on 14 pitches in the 7th.
You also don't fucking bunt for one run in the 10th inning on the road if your closer isn't available.
You also, with a string of lefties due up, put your former GG-winning outfielder in right for defense rather than a rookie.
You also, with the winning run on third, walk their best hitter and hope for a force out or double play. The adage "Never let their best player beat you" has existed for decades for a reason.
I want him to do his fucking job, which is to put his players in the best position to succeed and win. He failed in every regard tonight. Fuck him.
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Cora made at least 4 poor decisions in the tenth. Players have to make plays, but a better manager facilitates things allowing them to do so more easily and confidently. I’ll be happy when Cora is gone.
Serious question, do folks here, believe Cora is making game decisions in a vacuum? I know that he’s ultimately the manager, but don’t we believe he’s hearing from his coaches for many of these decisions as well? My question isn’t intended to exonerate Cora, but more so to question those he has surrounding him as well.
Again, withholding your best relievers in a tie game on the road is not how the game is or should be managed. See Buck Showalter in the AL WC game.
I will give you the bunt (playing for 1 run) makes much less sense, wonder if Valdez did that on his own.
Does it matter if O'Neill is in left or right given Abreu had to stay in the game? This park is pretty symmetrical last I checked. If Abreu made the error in LF, would people be crying that O'Neill wasn't there?
I will give you the bunt (playing for 1 run) makes much less sense, wonder if Valdez did that on his own.
Does it matter if O'Neill is in left or right given Abreu had to stay in the game? This park is pretty symmetrical last I checked. If Abreu made the error in LF, would people be crying that O'Neill wasn't there?
It's not a "withholding". It's proper usage of your resources. Under what circumstances is it optimal for your closer's only inning to be against the 8-9-1 hitters in a tie game on the road in the 8th? No. You let the guy who only needed 14 pitches to get through the 7th at least face the bottom of the order.
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IT's also game 3 of the regular season and I'm sure they didn't want Campbell going more than one inning this early in.
The priority this year is not maximizing wins. That was obvious enough when they optioned Bernandino to keep Joely on the roster, never mind the rest of the offseason.
The priority this year is not maximizing wins. That was obvious enough when they optioned Bernandino to keep Joely on the roster, never mind the rest of the offseason.
That's pretty hard to argue with. Decent chance of working, and completely defensible if it didn't given the circumstances in the moment.
All I can say is tonight's nutpunch aside, how good this team will be is as yet to be determined. There has been a lot to like, too. A lot.
I absolutely love this rant, and the only quibble I have is that Campbell went 2 the other day and struggled a bit at the end, so not sure they wanted to go right back to it. I may have been inclined to let Weissert start the 10th instead, though. Especially since he could have been pulled after a batter if trouble ensued.... Instead of any of that, we got an absolute shit sandwich. Unacceptable. Learn from the data, Alex.
Before I knew Kenley wasn't available, I really didn't mind it, but given he wasn't, and rolling one over to second would have accomplished the same goal with a chance for more, I just don't get it at all.Even if he K's, Rafeala was at second as the ghost runner, so who knows what Kaos he could have created on his own. Giving up an out there seems stupid even if it's successful. More so after seeing them score two while giving up yet another out on an attempted steal. I'd rather he did it on his own, to be honest.
Polanco is a switch-hitter but has always been much worse vs. Ls. So it would have made more sense to leave Joely in, IBB J-Rod (duh) and try to get Polanco to hit it on the ground. I’ve followed Polanco for a long time. He sucks vs. Ls with no power.
Martin, the better pitcher, pitched with no margin of error. The less good pitchers had one in the 10th. I dont save him for the save. I think thats the right way to go. (Though I could see flipping him and Weissert for that reason).
I've never been a fan of intentionally loading the bases. It makes pitchers pitch differently. I could see making an exception here, given the hitter. But its not that cut and dried to me.
I've never been a fan of intentionally loading the bases. It makes pitchers pitch differently. I could see making an exception here, given the hitter. But its not that cut and dried to me.
I would argue that the real killer is carrying exactly ONE (1) LHP on the entire roster and its this Joely character when we have Bernadino in Worcester for some goddamn reason
I fell asleep in somewhere around the 7th.
I see that instead of people talking about decisions Cora made which panned out, everyone is talking about decisions Cora made that resulted in a loss.
What do I see from the box score?
In a tie game he trots out his better relievers for 1 inning apiece. Then they go to extras. They score two and Cora goes to the wildest pitcher on the staff with the Manfred Man on. He ties the game.
Then with only one run needed to lose the game, Cora puts a rookie pitcher in to face a good hitter, when he could have faced a weaker hitter with more force out options.
As usual, every single decision is maybe defensible in isolation by some general principle or truism, but the sum total of those kinds of decisions is a loss. So how good were they?
I see that instead of people talking about decisions Cora made which panned out, everyone is talking about decisions Cora made that resulted in a loss.
What do I see from the box score?
In a tie game he trots out his better relievers for 1 inning apiece. Then they go to extras. They score two and Cora goes to the wildest pitcher on the staff with the Manfred Man on. He ties the game.
Then with only one run needed to lose the game, Cora puts a rookie pitcher in to face a good hitter, when he could have faced a weaker hitter with more force out options.
As usual, every single decision is maybe defensible in isolation by some general principle or truism, but the sum total of those kinds of decisions is a loss. So how good were they?
The decision to try to keep the game tied with the better relievers obviously worked, it's hilarious that anyone would even question that part. It's like suggesting we would have been better off losing in regulation innings.
We get that you're happy they lost.
Like I said, it's a semi-justifable paint-by-numbers approach that again fails. Instead, he could have gotten another batter out of Crawford. He could have used Campbell for more than 3 batters. He could have used Slaten earlier. He could have used Rodriguez earlier.
And why those kinds of choices to stretch out your staff? How was Cora to know his team wasn't hitting over the last few games? How was Cora to know he was burning through his staff to get to the 9th only? How was Cora to know that extra innings start with a man on 2nd?
But somehow, with his ice-cold offense, he shockingly ended up in extras. And then when they went ahead, he was left with his wildest pitcher to start the 10th, with a man on 2nd.
***
Ultimately it's one game this year. But it's the same approach we've seen in past seasons. Cora will do shit like this once a week, and then, when the deadline rolls around, people will say. . ."Man, if we only had 4 more wins. . ."
Thanks for proving there's no point trying to engage with you. Unbelievable.
Certainly, every single possible other decision was maybe defensible in isolation by some general principle or truism, but it failed -- again -- when Crawford's extra batter hit a bomb, and Slaten allowed the lead to widen before they even got to the 10th.
Glad I was sleeping for these. This one doesn't bother me that much because of that gimmick runner thing.
If they're gonna have that thing, at least give the team a point for the tie like Hockey.
If they're gonna have that thing, at least give the team a point for the tie like Hockey.
I agree with all of the pitching decisions up to and even into the 10th inning. I am fine with going to Slaten in that situation. I can even see some merit to pinch running Bobby Dalbec for Triston Casas, though I do not agree with that move.
I am 100% NOT fine with telling him, "You're in the bigs now, kid" and having pitch in any way, shape or form to Julio Rodriguez, even if the plan was to "pitch around" him. There is zero excuse for a major league baseball manager to avoid the decision to walk J-Rod in that situation instead of putting him on. It's the best tactical decision, setting up the force at home plate or putting a double play or strikeout in order with a much worse, much slower player, and it's the best decision for your rookie pitcher throwing the first Major League pitches of his career.
An MLB manager can only do so much to win or lose the game, but the biggest way that he can affect the outcome is by putting his players in a position where they are most likely to be able to succeed.
Instead, he ACTIVELY AVOIDED the situation that was most likely to help Justin Slaten succeed and told him, "LOL go get 'em, kid" like he's trying out for Bull Durham 2: The Terrible Manager Extended Cut.