5/27 - Weekend At Bernie's

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,475
Can’t believe I’m saying this but thank fuck Smart shot that early
The idea is to shoot early so there's a chance to follow-up.


I lived through 2003, 2004 and the Brady dynasty. I’ve never seen a wilder finish.
Malcolm Butler because of the stakes at the time--Super Bowl win or loss.


Big ups to another absolutely terrible ATO play
I'm not sure it was terrible, because I doubt Smart was the first option. They appeared to have something for Tatum, but had a secondary play for Smart where Tatum crashed the boards if Tatum couldn't break free.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,563
Newton
I still think it's Bird's because we didn't have possession and had to not only steal posession and score...BUT, we did not win that series. If Celtics go on and win 5 more games, this gets a lot closer.
I thought we did win that series? Just not the Finals.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
34,157
I thought the late-game execution was a little better (damning praise) than other collapses. They got some layup looks (not bunnies, but still layups) that just didn't go down. Butler made a contested 3 at 100-93 with 2 minutes left that if he misses, probably it's a wrap. The Butler double dribble should have been a 2 point foul at worst.

This team has the weirdest shit happen to them.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,475
Just a rules question---I'm having nightmares of that shot, but Strus barely touches the ball after leaving White's hand, before the backboard, but after time expires---that would invalidate the shot right? Or would that still be considered part of shot?
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,284
Chelmsford, MA
The idea is to shoot early so there's a chance to follow-up.




Malcolm Butler because of the stakes at the time--Super Bowl win or loss.




I'm not sure it was terrible, because I doubt Smart was the first option. They appeared to have something for Tatum, but had a secondary play for Smart where Tatum crashed the boards if Tatum couldn't break free.
It was terrible because it was designed to get Tatum the ball moving away from the basket with only 3 seconds to shoot. Unless you want to buy that he was a decoy but I have no idea why you’d use him that way with the season on the line
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,475
It was terrible because it was designed to get Tatum the ball moving away from the basket with only 3 seconds to shoot. Unless you want to buy that he was a decoy but I have no idea why you’d use him that way with the season on the line
Fair enough, but it's playoffs, we won, and I'm results oriented at this point.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,524
The idea is to shoot early so there's a chance to follow-up.

Malcolm Butler because of the stakes at the time--Super Bowl win or loss.

I'm not sure it was terrible, because I doubt Smart was the first option. They appeared to have something for Tatum, but had a secondary play for Smart where Tatum crashed the boards if Tatum couldn't break free.
Brown was the second option and White was probably the third option. Smart didn't set a good screen so Bam was able to easily stay on Jaylen.. and Smart wants to take the shot every time so he didn't pass to White who was wide open.. because a ton of teams don't guard the inbound-er once he steps in. I doubt there's any universe where a turnaround three by Smart was the intended play.. especially since they were down one. If Smart sets a good back screen on Bam.. then Jaylen either has a wide open two or an open lane to the basket.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,524
It was terrible because it was designed to get Tatum the ball moving away from the basket with only 3 seconds to shoot. Unless you want to buy that he was a decoy but I have no idea why you’d use him that way with the season on the line
I think it's because everyone knew that they'd double Tatum so that he couldn't get the ball. He took two defenders 30' away from the rim.. and then beat them both to the rim for the rebound.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,524
Just a rules question---I'm having nightmares of that shot, but Strus barely touches the ball after leaving White's hand, before the backboard, but after time expires---that would invalidate the shot right? Or would that still be considered part of shot?
Pretty sure once the ball is released by the offensive player.. that's all that matters
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,182
Westwood MA
The challenge Miami lost on the Brown play where they thought he hooked the defender was huge, glad they ruled on that the way they did.
 

RSN Diaspora

molests goats for comedy
SoSH Member
Jul 29, 2005
11,898
Washington, DC
Game on replay right now on NBA TV. I didn’t fully appreciate it at the time, but the timeout that CJM called at 4:10 left in the 4th quarter with the Celtics up 10 was such an improvement over past timeout usage. They just grabbed a rebound with a chance to go up 12 and then cheesedicked their way up the court as if they were bleeding the clock. Jaylen grabbed the rebound off an entirely uninspired late-in-the-clock Tatum 3-pt attempt and Joe called time immediately. They needed a reminder not to start playing to avoid a loss.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
34,157
That just solidifies Jimmy getting a shooting foul there was a complete joke, and by extreme luck it worked out for the C's. There would ahve been righteous anger at the refs if 103-102 was the final.

The NBA has an apparently incurable refereeing problem.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
52,162
It is pretty shocking that the refs didn’t make it a two shot foul on the floor by default simply by officiating game theory and the fact that the league never wants a game explicitly decided by a questionable call. I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelash if they said “foul before the shot” just to ensure it didn’t decide the game. Especially with the double dribble.

Beyond the sheer excitement of it and continuing to stave off a gross Denver/Miami finals, I’m sure Silver is happy it turned out as it did for that reason.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,563
Newton
The NBA has an apparently incurable refereeing problem.
My sense is that it is a holdover from Stern’s reign in which referees were used by the League office to steer games toward marketable players and teams (Lakers-Celtics in every Finals of the 80s, Jordan in the 90s, stars ever since). I strongly suspect Silver understands the issue but is struggling how to dial it back without opening a Pandora’s box.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,858
deep inside Guido territory
“The main thing is I get another game where we get to watch Derrick and the Celtics play,” said Richard White. “You want to win and everything, but (I am) a dad. And he’s our son. And we just like watching him play.”

Man this hits all the feels.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,825
I'm still surprised they survived that ending. I don't think I will ever fully believe that put back beat the clock. It almost never happens in my viewing experience.
 

Five Cent Head

64th note
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2007
803
Seattle
I want to know. Was this is what it was like when Bird and Hondo stole the fucking balls? I know this is like the total opposite of what the play was but you know the MOTHERFUCKIN' elation?
I wasn't around for Havlicek's steal, but one major difference between Bird's play and this one (and something this one has in common with Tatum's shot at the end of game 1 in last year's Brooklyn series, in addition to having the same 5 Celtics on the court) was that the announcers botched it, whereas Johnny Most, and I think also the national TV announcers, nailed Bird's play. Of course Most had the iconic call on Havlicek's play, too.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
59,924
San Andreas Fault
Celts had the lead in the Havlicek game but the sense of foreboding with the prospect of Wilt getting the ball in the low post
was thick. And I recall some break in the action as there was some confusion on the court as to what happened. I remember thinking and pacing in my parents basement, "WTF is a (guidewire) guywire? And to this kid at the time, the Celts losing a series was about inconceivable.


Havlicek stole the ball was more like Malcolm's pick, HUGE defensive plays that preserved leads and led to wins.

Derek's season saving O board put back was sort of unique in my recall of Celts play off history.
Well, the Celtics had the ball for a throw-in to the right of the Philadelphia basket with very little time left. Russell was throwing it in but hit the guy wire (WTF was a wire doing right there?), and the ball was considered OOB. Later he said he was pleading to the other Celtics to make a play and bail him out. Sure enough, on the Pha throw-in John Havlicek did just that. "Havlicek stole the ball "Havlicek stole the ball Johnny Havlicek stole the ball" yelled Johnny Most. That's also the most iconic basketball call, followed by "and now a steal by Bird, over to DJ, who lays it in." Maybe some call by Chick Hearn, i don't know.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,320
CA
So, this may have been covered, but I read on ESPN that the Refs would have reviewed whether it was a 2pt or 3pt either way — but, because CJM challenged, they were able to put the .9 seconds back on the clock also (and obviously affirmed the foul). So, technically, CJM did save the day there despite the gamethread intimating it was his fault Butler got 3 shots.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,186
It's ridiculous to think that CJM's challenge changed the call from two to three shots. The refs were always, always going to review that no matter what. They also probably would put the right time back on the clock; the NBA is pretty diligent about that kind of stuff.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,315
The game was so rigged that the NBA admits the refs missed two calls in the final minutes...that should have gone against Miami.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37749455/nba-says-no-issues-foul-jimmy-butler-review
Not trying to defend the officiating, but unless the game is stopped after every call for a video reviews, the refs are going to miss some calls. We should be thankful in this case that these missed calls didn't cost the C's the game.

It would have been nice for Tatum to have gotten two free throws in that situation.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,435
I'm totally fine with the challenge, but there was a realized downside. They lost a timeout and thus has one instead of two at the end of the game. Two would have given the inbounder the opportunity to call a timeout after either seeing the defense or if they didn't like any of the open looks.
Fair, a very small downside compared to the potential upside. But there was no downside in that he in some way caused Butler to get an extra free throw like a ton of people seemed to think in the game thread.