5/29 - The Last Of Us

astrozombie

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
486
I felt guilty eulogizing this team after game 3, but that's karma. I turned the game on when it was 56-66 and just had a bad feeling about it. To add to my thoughts from after that game:
1. I think the Celtics are going to ask around for someone like Budenholzer and that is going to end up causing more chaos. Mazzulla might be a good coach down the line, but he just seemed overwhelmed, especially in the playoffs. I just don't think he is the guy who should be in charge right now. At the same time, getting rid of him is going to cause consternation, so... I have no idea what the solution is.
2. I said it before, I will say it again: I like Jaylen Brown, but a part of me will be relieved when he flees Boston as soon as he can. The turnovers especially are just brutal. Moreover I can't help but feel like Kyrie (still screwing with the Celtics) just put some awful things in Brown's ear, like encouraging Brown to express frustration if he can't be the alpha here or whatever. Which is even funnier considering Kyrie then went to be Robin to Durant's Batman, then Robin to Doncic's Batman and next season is going to be Penneyworth to LeBron's Batman and AD's Robin. Kyrie is the nightmare that keeps on giving.
3. No idea how to improve this team at this point. Maybe trade Brown. And as much as I would love Dame Time in Boston, he does not help the frontcourt, which is where I think the Cs need most help.
4. The 08 team was comprised of a core who really seemed like they were at the stage of their careers where winning a title was the most important thing; they already had the accolades and the huge contracts. These teams are like the opposite - a bunch of young guys trying to get that payday. A championship would have looked great on the resume, but not as much as looking good for prospective employers. Way too many moments this whole year when things were going well and everyone gets the ball, then things get tight and the offensive slowed to a crawl as everyone tried to take over.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
25,591
Unreal America
Co-sign 100%. They had a title on their racket last June and blew it and they just weren’t fun this year. They just have some serious maturity issues and likely quite a bit of hubris.
Sometimes I think that JT, JB and Smart somehow thought they won a title back during that miraculous ECF run in 2018. But in the years since they often act like the '95 Rockets... a champ-caliber team that can turn it on when they have to.
 

Bread of Yaz

New Member
Mar 12, 2019
389
Question: who was Caleb Martin guarding last night? His offensive game is built on speed but he is super thin, so why couldn't the Celtics have isolated him down low on the block? Try and slow him down, get him in foul trouble, wear him out etc. Don't think I saw them try this once.
 

TrapperAB

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,532
West Hartford, CT
I had to drive home after that abomination, didn't get home till 2am, had to get up this morning and I'm nauseous and angry and bitter and regretting my emotional investment in this team.

And then it hit me: this is how I've felt in the past when I had my heart broken.

These fuckwads showed me who they were over the first three games (and the last few seasons) -- you can't trust them, and they make everything hard. Just when I was ready to move on, we got two great games. Then, another fucking fourth quarter collapse, saved only by a miraculous shot. But in the end, what they delivered was hope. Hope that maybe my love for the team, my boy's love for the team, would be reciprocated.

And then they did THAT. In a Game 7. At home.

Fucking hell. Should have known better. That's how it is with love: you make yourself vulnerable. Sometimes that is rewarded.

This is not one of those times.
 
Last edited:

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
52,046
Question: who was Caleb Martin guarding last night? His offensive game is built on speed but he is super thin, so why couldn't the Celtics have isolated him down low on the block? Try and slow him down, get him in foul trouble, wear him out etc. Don't think I saw them try this once.
I think this speaks to a bigger flaw of the offense in general that they don't really have that kind of ISO in their bag. Because it's such a 5-out offense, the corner is occupied by a shooter most of the time and they just don't run a ton of actions to get JB or JT isolated in those areas. Instead we're relying on them to penetrate the first layer of defense with the dribble which introduces a ton of turnover risk especially for Brown.

Finding those pockets in the block also leads to more advantageous double teams for the offense. In other words, if Tatum has the ball 30 feet from the hoop and gets doubled, it is a lot easier for the defense to recover when he passes it out. If he's on the block and sees a double coming, there is a much wider variety of options on the table for the pass. Someone in the short side corner, a cutter in the lane, a shooter sitting open at the top of the key, baseline pass to the far corner, etc, all of which can get the defense scrambling. But where does the pass go when you're doubled 30 feet from the hoop? Usually cross court to the other player at the top of the 3pt line, because not much else is available. A fast defense recovers no problem. I don't think they do nearly enough to add wrinkles that will make a defense think or move it around in an advantageous way.
 

genoasalami

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2006
2,586
I had to drive home after that abomination, didn't get home till 2am, had to get up this morning and I'm nauseous and angry and bitter and regretting my emotional investment in this team.

And then it hit me: this is how I've felt in the past when I had my heart broken.

These fuckwads showed me who they were over the first three games (and the last few seasons) -- you can't trust them, and they make everything hard. Just when I was ready to move on, we got two great games. Then, another fucking fourth quarter collapse, saved only by a miraculous shot. But in the end, what they delivered was hope. Hope that maybe my love for the team, my boy's love for the team, would be reciprocated.

And then they did THAT. In a Game 7. At home.

Fucking hell. Should have known better. That's how it is with love: you make yourself vulnerable. Sometimes that is rewarded.

This is not one of those times.
I never missed a minute of Celtics games in the 80s. I've lost interest over time and did not watch a second of the Celtics in the regular season. I tuned in for the playoffs just because I enjoy the drama and if I am going to root for any NBA team it will be the Celtics. All I can say is, this is the stuff people actually pay to watch? Three point shooting contests sprinkled with passive defense? I don't know how anyone can get emotionally attached to the product the NBA puts out. It's brutal. The only thing the NBA of the 80s and 90s sorely missed was HDTV.
 

TrapperAB

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,532
West Hartford, CT
I never missed a minute of Celtics games in the 80s. I've lost interest over time and did not watch a second of the Celtics in the regular season. I tuned in for the playoffs just because I enjoy the drama and if I am going to root for any NBA team it will be the Celtics. All I can say is, this is the stuff people actually pay to watch? Three point shooting contests sprinkled with passive defense? I don't know how anyone can get emotionally attached to the product the NBA puts out. It's brutal. The only thing the NBA of the 80s and 90s sorely missed was HDTV.
Totally understand this sentiment. For me, it's nostalgia -- I see everything through the prism of the 80s, when I shared the Bird years with my dad. And now, for good or ill, I share the Tatum years with my son. So I'm willing to invest time and money into the experience, even though I'm not as interested in what the game has become.

Not sure how I'm going to feel going into next season. Right now, I'm thinking that I'll ignore the Celts until they give me reason not to. But I've said that before, but then find myself sitting down with my boy on opening night talking about what the season might hold.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,417
To be frank I’m a little surprised no one has really talked about his injury more. Even though he played the rest of Game 1 and in Games 2 and 3 he was essentially useless. Pretty big deal to lose the 6MOTY in the first game of the conference finals. His defense was not good but man oh man could they have used his shooting.
Having both him and Tatum hobbled killed them.. if you take Butler out for Miami they’d have trouble too.. not only do you miss their scoring but you also can guard the next two guys down the lineup with your best defenders

edit: the Celts have had awful injury luck in the playoffs for decades. Last year was one of their healthiest and even then Tatum was probably hurt in the finals.

I mean.. how much does last night change if Tatum rolls his ankle on one of the last plays rather than the first fuckin play of the game?!
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,417
Question: who was Caleb Martin guarding last night? His offensive game is built on speed but he is super thin, so why couldn't the Celtics have isolated him down low on the block? Try and slow him down, get him in foul trouble, wear him out etc. Don't think I saw them try this once.
I think he was guarding White possibly? And he got away with a number of subtle shoved in the back like he did all series
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
12,417
I never missed a minute of Celtics games in the 80s. I've lost interest over time and did not watch a second of the Celtics in the regular season. I tuned in for the playoffs just because I enjoy the drama and if I am going to root for any NBA team it will be the Celtics. All I can say is, this is the stuff people actually pay to watch? Three point shooting contests sprinkled with passive defense? I don't know how anyone can get emotionally attached to the product the NBA puts out. It's brutal. The only thing the NBA of the 80s and 90s sorely missed was HDTV.
I think the defense of today is actually a lot better than the 80s.. although the amount of contact allowed now versus then is comically different.
Also.. having to guard the three point line and the lane makes D a lot harder now.. guarding 18 footers with those rims didn’t make a to of sense over protecting the lane/rim.. and the three was sort of an afterthought
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
25,591
Unreal America
Totally understand this sentiment. For me, it's nostalgia -- I see everything through the prism of the 80s, when I shared the Bird years with my dad. And now, for good or ill, I share the Tatum years with my son. So I'm willing to invest time and money into the experience, even though I'm not as interested in what the game has become.

Not sure how I'm going to feel going into next season. Right now, I'm thinking that I'll ignore the Celts until they give me reason not to. But I've said that before, but then find myself sitting down with my boy on opening night talking about what the season might hold.
Following the team is 100% worth it if it gives you a vehicle to connect with your son. Needless to say, that's what matters.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
25,237
Question: who was Caleb Martin guarding last night? His offensive game is built on speed but he is super thin, so why couldn't the Celtics have isolated him down low on the block? Try and slow him down, get him in foul trouble, wear him out etc. Don't think I saw them try this once.
One thing they only utilized a couple of times all series was Tatum on the block. Obviously hard to do last night due to his injury but he’s a good post player and they hardly ever went to it.