Again the PJ Tucker at Center was a 1/2 season D'Antoni experiment.
PJ has primarily played as a perimeter 4 for his career. Thats how he is being used this season
Analysis of Celtics Games (2020-2021)
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PJ has primarily played as a perimeter 4 for his career. Thats how he is being used this season
Pretty sure basketball-reference breaks down position played by height. It's useless.
If that was true they wouldn't have Tatum playing Center 0% of the time
Do you believe Grant played the majority of his minutes at the 5?
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The teams that struggle to score at the end of games are the ones who don't execute their sets even when everybody knows what's coming. The Celtics don't do a good enough job of that when they do run sets at the end of a game. Most of the time, it's just an isolation play.
No, just pointing out basketball-reference position estimate is completely useless.
It's not just scale weight with Grant. It's functional footspeed. Semi has a bit too much hypertrophy (IMO) and moves his feet laterally fantastically. Smart is probably in the conversation for deadlift king on the team outside of Grant and isn't particularly bulked (although occasionally has carried baby fat himself).
On the right program, Grant could drop some mass, improve footspeed materially, and not give up a ton of functional strength. He'd handle 3s and most 4s at a smarter weight, if he improved his short space quickness. At the cost of ballast that's only for receiving post blows, it's a no brainer tradeoff.
On the right program, Grant could drop some mass, improve footspeed materially, and not give up a ton of functional strength. He'd handle 3s and most 4s at a smarter weight, if he improved his short space quickness. At the cost of ballast that's only for receiving post blows, it's a no brainer tradeoff.
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Talk about a low bar. Last night in 20 minutes he had 2 points 0 reb and 0 assists. It's hard to be that MIA on offense. He's also shooting 20% from 3 this year, 25% in his career. His D is OK though not nearly special enough for that type of offensive performance.
Green is only getting any minutes at all because we dont have any legit bench wing options right now. Semi can flash and Nesmith might eventually get there but the cupboard is pretty bare.
The sooner Green can go back to a 12th man getting some cool garbage time dunks, the better off the Celtics will be.
ok, that's fair
Probably 70/30 split since they ran out of Centers a few times last season and Grant was a healthy body
he's mostly a big wing
I'm not hoping on Green turning into a starter. Just seems like he is where he's supposed to be more than the other options. And frankly I appreciate the effort that he brings on defense. If I'm crazy, that's fine. But it seems that he adds to the mix there. Agreed on your larger point that a D and no 3 player should be a 12th man.
Yeah, what I’m mainly trying to get at is that he needs to have quicker feet to be valuable.
Yeah, this. I’m using weight as a proxy for foot speed, but maybe shouldn’t be. He needs to be a credible perimeter defender to get the most out of his tools on D, but it’s not there yet. He was good last night though.
Sign Grant (and me) up for JimboDandy camp
Celtics desperately need a corner 3pt sniper to pair with JayCrew, who lead the league in above the break 3pt shooting %. Grant and Semi can rotate there and Brad can stop this TT/DT combo
The thing with Grant is that he seems to have no interior game (so far). This surprises me, because I would have assumed he did this a lot in college. In the NBA, it seems like every time he tries to do something in the low post he gets blocked.
Maybe he needs to focus more on moving without the ball and cutting (this has seemed to work for him at least a few times). What I don’t know is, is it necessary to always have somebody standing in the corner for spacing or can Grant move around more?
Maybe he needs to focus more on moving without the ball and cutting (this has seemed to work for him at least a few times). What I don’t know is, is it necessary to always have somebody standing in the corner for spacing or can Grant move around more?
Yeah, with the way things are shaking out for the Celtics on the wing vs center, losing some weight to improve quickness is an obvious tradeoff for him, particularly since his shot is looking more and more real.
It's a shame Nesmith isn't ready yet to be that corner 3-point sniper. He'd get a ton of open looks.
If by "interior game" you mean posting, he tries to post some but peeps won't throw him the ball. TT did once but it was too high and GW couldn't teach it.
The best way for the Celtics to crack the 23 zone is for Tatum to flash to the free-throw line to catch the ball. The center should be on the baseline in the dunker spot and the three good three-point shooters should space out on the perimeter.
Brown would also be good at flashing to the free throw line.
Brown would also be good at flashing to the free throw line.
I was tearing my hair out when the zone came out and the instantly went 5 wide and just passed the ball around aimlessly. Need to be ready for it in more important spots. Tatum should be living in the spot anytime the zone comes out. Brown also if you have him just looking for the FT jumpers he has been crushing. Not a complicated fix, thankfully.
The four things that player, after flashing to the FT line and catching, has to do is: make a 15 footer, see over the defense to make a swing pass for three, drive to the basket, and throw the lab, are all things that Brown and Tatum can do easily
They had success in the playoffs last year doing exactly this with Hayward as flasher.
Grant is hitting 42% of his 3s over the last 82 games. We want him nowhere near the rim, that area is reserved for JayCrew making hard drives to the hoop or lobs to TL. If Grant wants to set hard screens/picks up top for JayCrew/Kemba/PP and then pop for a 3 he can do that also. Rinse/repeat for Semi.
say NO to clogging the lanes, say YES to spreading the floor to open it up for the Jays
Yeah any of those guys are fine with that. Theis could work there too probably. Worst thing that you can do is what we have been doing.
One time JB flashed there and didn't get a touch, and nobody went there again.
I'd prefer Tatum outside the arc with his unblockable stepback just in case, but he would absolutely be great as the flasher.
In college, he was just eating up smaller guys, I think. It's often sad to watch him try to score inside against NBA talent. He has like a 2-inch vertical and doesn't get the ball off that quickly. Defenders just wait til he commits on the shot, then swat it away.
Most teams don’t execute their sets at end of games due to the defensive intensity being at max level combined with the officials generally swallowing their whistles. This is why ISO’s with your best shot maker have been so popular and so effective over the years if you have that player. It’s the old “good teams win close games, bad teams lose close games” adage for this reason.
yea, because the SEC doesn't have any players taller than 6'6"
the NBA is all about speed it has little to do with Grant's size
Whether you call PJ a 4 or a 5 is irrelevant in my view---he's been a big for several years now, so when people compare Grant to him the question I ask is "ok, who is ANOTHER guy that size who has been effective as a big?" I mean, Wes Unseld but that only proves it's really hard to pull off. Barkley, a different kind of physical freak. That's the point---guys that size who can be bigs are rare.
Yeah, the boring but correct answer here is “Brown and Tatum need to get better.”
sure, you can call him Susan if it makes you happy...just don't stick either in the post or dunker spot
PJ and Grant should be doing two things on offense (1) shooting corner 3s (2) setting picks/screens at the top, for the creators/top 3 options, and popping. Neither are diving to the rim, unless a PG gets switched on to them
and they are primarily on the floor with Chris Wood, Cousins, TL, Theis, TT who I consider 5s(BIGs)
I'm not a massive fan of Grant at the 5 small-ball lineup, unless the opponent goes super small. I still probably prefer TL/DT at Center in that situation. Brad did it a few times last season because his hands were tied with injuries, foul situations, Kanter's inability to play D, or TL being sleepy.
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Yeah. Grant's combine max was 31.5" (26" standing). He's far from elite, but he gets off the ground just fine.yea, because the SEC doesn't have any players taller than 6'6"
the NBA is all about speed it has little to do with Grant's size
His ability to bully guys was strength mostly, but also the speed of play for sure. He was undersized against most of his opponents then too (underheighted?).
That's what makes no sense. If he's athletic enough to play the 3 at 225, he is not undersized. So why have him gain weight to be an undersized big? The only thing I can think of was his complete lack of a 3 point shot... but he gained the weight to strengthen up for the NBA.
If it was his college coach, I understand the short term thinking. That's apparently not what happened though. He specifically gained weight/strength to prepare for the NBA. Dude was already plenty strong as it is.
Someone gave him terrible advice by telling him to gain weight and that person should be fired. Grant has always had an abundance of strength, while his quickness is on the fringes. So lets sacrifice very important quickness for superfluous strength.
Particularly in getting to the FT line. If you watch really good teams in the 4Q, the best way to ensure that the team doesn't go on a multiple possession scoring drought is getting to the FT line. Refs giving them some respect would help.
I don't think he was athletic or skilled enough to be an NBA 3. He's not explosive as a leaper, and doesn't have the quick twitch and second jump top athletes do. His lateral quickness is ok for a 4, it was not good enough for a 3, and wasn't in college where he got eaten up by top matchup guards/SFs and struggled with fouls, his handle is pretty basic, nothing about Grant Williams' game at any point says "NBA SF" at all, everything about him coming out of school screamed small-ball big who might be able to guard on switches, but isn't a full-time wing.
I went through a bunch of the better evaluators, pre-draft writeups on Grant, and not a single one thought he was anything but a big, and even as a 4 almost all of them had questions about whether he had the athleticism to full switch, none even remotely suggested he could play down at the 3. Everyone saw him as a PF for athleticism reasons.
Yes to this. The best 50-75 college basketball players are in the NBA. GW I'm sure rarely if ever saw an uber-athletic 3 that wasn't a freshman in college. However, in the NBA, he sees 2 or 3 of them every night.
GW is never going around people are over people no matter what weight he plays at. That doesn't mean he can't still be a very good player but I'm sure it will take time to get there (if he does).
It was disappointing to see him miss both free throws (I'm talking about the time before he missed the first and the second on purpose). Reminded me of last playoffs when he missed both free throws (game 7?). He's not a bad free throw shooter. Obviously it could be just luck, but missing both, late in the game - seems like nerves. Although, I might have a vague memory of him hitting some late free throws in pressure situations. Not sure. I just really remember the playoffs, unfortunately.
Go to the bottom: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628369/shooting/
They have insanely granular detail on shot type. 9/23 on step back 3s, which is honestly better than I had thought.
I said a couple weeks ago that the biggest adjustment these team needs is “do the same stuff on defense, but harder and with purpose.”
I don’t know what Brad said to them at halftime, but that 3rd and 4th quarter looked like a totally different team defensively. It helps that TT seems to be playing his way into shape, but everyone committed defensively in a way they hadn’t in awhile.
This team has the personnel to be good defensively, and that (and acquiring a shooting wing) is its best path to contention. Hopefully some light switches go on as they learn to play without Smart.
I don’t know what Brad said to them at halftime, but that 3rd and 4th quarter looked like a totally different team defensively. It helps that TT seems to be playing his way into shape, but everyone committed defensively in a way they hadn’t in awhile.
This team has the personnel to be good defensively, and that (and acquiring a shooting wing) is its best path to contention. Hopefully some light switches go on as they learn to play without Smart.
Is there a place to find team defensive statistics that split out possessions that start with an inbounds pass (off a made hoop, timeout, dead ball turnover) vs missed shots and live ball turnovers? This particular Celtics team seems to really struggle in transition, but seem solid when they are able to set up their defense. This sort of feels similar to your “do everything better and harder” adjustment in terms of just run harder back on defense and communicate better to get matched up effectively.
I think cleaning the glass has that split-out, although I’m no longer a subscriber.
I agree they’ve been bad in transition, but that first half against the Clippers was utter trash halfcourt D, in a way that’s happened too often this year.
I didn't see last night's game (too late), but was pleasantly surprised by the outcome, especially after it looked like the Clippers shot and rebounded better. I was impressed by the low turnovers by the Celts (6).
Separately: I know last year there were dark jokes about the "Hospital Celtics." I noticed that Theis went out last night with a bad knee. There are NBA stats for almost everything it seems, right down to an absurd level of granularity.
Does anyone know of stats tracking how well teams compare when it comes to staying healthy? I know all teams have players out, at some point or other, but it seems like the Celtics have more than their share of injuries, all the time. Or is that something like the foul disparity in-game that we tend to mis-estimate? Anyway, I started getting curious about this ...
Separately: I know last year there were dark jokes about the "Hospital Celtics." I noticed that Theis went out last night with a bad knee. There are NBA stats for almost everything it seems, right down to an absurd level of granularity.
Does anyone know of stats tracking how well teams compare when it comes to staying healthy? I know all teams have players out, at some point or other, but it seems like the Celtics have more than their share of injuries, all the time. Or is that something like the foul disparity in-game that we tend to mis-estimate? Anyway, I started getting curious about this ...
Carsen did a lot of good things last nite, but nothing was bigger than the three free throws he calmly hit after the Clippers had come back to take the lead. If he goes 1 for 3 or 2 for 3 there, this one might well have ended differently.
He battles on defense. He's in trouble when he switches onto a bigger player, but at least he competes.
He battles on defense. He's in trouble when he switches onto a bigger player, but at least he competes.
The Athletic on the C's late-game struggles, which thankfully were not an issue in the final minute last nite:
The Celtics rank 29th with a disastrous minus-10.0 net rating during fourth quarters. During the final 12 minutes of games, they have fielded a bottom-five offense and a bottom-five defense. They have lost fourth-quarter leads in six of their nine defeats so far. Only the Hawks and Timberwolves have dropped more games than Boston (four) after leading through three quarters.
The Celtics rank 29th with a disastrous minus-10.0 net rating during fourth quarters. During the final 12 minutes of games, they have fielded a bottom-five offense and a bottom-five defense. They have lost fourth-quarter leads in six of their nine defeats so far. Only the Hawks and Timberwolves have dropped more games than Boston (four) after leading through three quarters.
One thing about the 3Q is that Brad was forced not to use "two-big" lineup and they stopped giving Kennard open shots. I'd personally much rather give up ORen than wide open corner 3s.
The biggest thing Carsen does is that he (mostly by reputation these days but whatever works) has gravity. In 1Q, Tatum was getting doubled - hard or soft - because defenders come off TT and DT and GW. But defenders have to play Carsen; I thought the floor really opened for JT in the 3Q.
Second half rebounding was actually even between the two teams, so not only did they defend the perimeter better with the smaller lineup, they also rebounded better.
You called this a couple of days ago IIRC. One possession last night, Kennard stayed with Edwards in transition and gave Tatum the three. That shit helps.
I really like this team. Not making predictions, but roles are being established.
Positives I am seeing.
Tatum is attacking the paint and putting pressure on the D, and starting to get the calls a star deserves.
The handoff, Iversen, screen/flare combos are more effective, teams are respecting Prtichard, Edwards, as shooters. If Thompson, Theis, Timelord keep scoring enough to keep D honest the actions they run with Tatum are tough to stop.
Kemba is attacking after the fist action and getting to his spots for his pullup, plus his tenacity on D is really good.
Semi came in last night and had good D possessions vs Leonard that won the game.
Grant looks like a poor man's Draymond Green at times as his passing and shooting improve.
Positives I am seeing.
Tatum is attacking the paint and putting pressure on the D, and starting to get the calls a star deserves.
The handoff, Iversen, screen/flare combos are more effective, teams are respecting Prtichard, Edwards, as shooters. If Thompson, Theis, Timelord keep scoring enough to keep D honest the actions they run with Tatum are tough to stop.
Kemba is attacking after the fist action and getting to his spots for his pullup, plus his tenacity on D is really good.
Semi came in last night and had good D possessions vs Leonard that won the game.
Grant looks like a poor man's Draymond Green at times as his passing and shooting improve.
I've been higher on Carsen than most here because he's really the only guy outside the Big 3 who can create his own shot (maybe add Marcus to that list). Brad has played him like a catch and shoot guy buy I'd rather see Carsen play - like last night - with only one of JB or JT on the floor. Don't park him in the corner but get him the ball on the move and see what CE can do.