Apple Event September 2013
- Thread starter Batman Likes The Sox
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boo. This is about the least inspiring release possible. What's going on with this company? I used to think Steve Jobs was way overrated except for being a great salesman, but now I dunno, in the post-Jobs era this company seems stuck in complacent purgatory.
Also, the white 5c would have been sweet looking with a white glass front. The black glass really doesn't work, IMO.
Prices are pretty high for the 5c, although Gruber and others had been warning about that for a while. Moving from black/slate to black/space grey (gag) was probably necessary due to how horrific the issues with the slate rubbing off was. They didn't receive nearly enough criticism for releasing a phone that essentially couldn't be used without a case to maintain anything like its launch day form.
Getting the fingerprint sensor in at the 5s level is actually a relatively decent hardware upgrade for an s model. As someone who can't wait to get back to iOS from Android, i'm somewhat pleasantly surprised, although I had severely tempered expectations. (And if anyone wants a t-mo htc one, pm me)
Prices are pretty high for the 5c, although Gruber and others had been warning about that for a while. Moving from black/slate to black/space grey (gag) was probably necessary due to how horrific the issues with the slate rubbing off was. They didn't receive nearly enough criticism for releasing a phone that essentially couldn't be used without a case to maintain anything like its launch day form.
Getting the fingerprint sensor in at the 5s level is actually a relatively decent hardware upgrade for an s model. As someone who can't wait to get back to iOS from Android, i'm somewhat pleasantly surprised, although I had severely tempered expectations. (And if anyone wants a t-mo htc one, pm me)
I'm curious, what in the history of the iPhone made you think there would be anything more announced today than what they did? They've been using this "same form factor, better internals" approach for years now.The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa said:
The real question/test is what will the iPhone 6 be like.
It would help if it didn't look like their designers had been marched out of the office. That case for the 5C is a travesty. Asking $550 for a mid-market phone is starting to look really lolful with the rise of the Nexus line and even the Lumia 6xx line at sub-$300 price points for equivalent value. (And, yeah, "$99 on contract," except outside the US contracts are dead or dying and major carriers in the US are moving away from it too.)shlincoln said:
I wouldn't call this a "mistake" yet but it's a pretty shitty announcement for a pretty shitty device.
Blacken said:
This ended up being a pretty accurate rundown on the pricing: http://stratechery.com/2013/thinking-about-iphone-pricing/
I agree with the initial reaction that the 5c seems to be just too expensive to be successful, especially given the higher prices after currency translation. I don't know what their sales targets are for this device, but another decent reason for the pre-order may be to see if they've missed the mark on this pricing. Honestly, it's almost like they weren't doing what everyone thought they were going to do (go for developing markets) and instead they just tried to produce something "new" they could sell for $99 on contract. I actually think the 5c will be far more successful here in the US on carrier subsidy than it will be anywhere else.
Blacken said:
Except that the target audience for that C could give a crap about a Lumia or Nexus. I have no doubt that people are gonna be buying them up in droves because of the color. Those cases are ugly to people like us, but 16 year olds are gonna love them.
Is it really a midmarket phone? A new Samsung Galaxy S III lists for $549.99 off contract on Amazon. Isn't $549.99, assuming that is the price, exactly what this product should sell for?Blacken said:
Apple isn't trying to compete with the Nexus line. No one is. You can't make money competing with the Nexus line.
What's more important, the most valuable company in the world making more money or increasing market share in China and India?
Honest question, I don't know the answer.
Honest question, I don't know the answer.
DukeSox said:
... and improved camera.
So is the 5c essentially just an iPhone 5 on the inside but with a cheap body?
Well, they opened by saying they were breaking tradition by no longer offering the previous generation phone at a discounted price, instead presenting a NEW, more cost effective option with 5c. However if the the 5c has the same guts as the 5 they ARE offering the previous generation at a discount and simply reducing their production cost.
They did upgrade some of the internals as well. The battery is slightly bigger and I believe they upgraded the front-facing camera to a higher resolution. Combine that with a new look and "fun colors" and such and it definitely has the feel of a new mid-range model rather than just discounting last year's model, and it will be visibly differentiated as a new phone rather than buying a year old phone. I don't think anyone was expecting it to be much different from the original iPhone 5 on specs.
I don't mind going to a store to get an iPhone 5S, but I do mind paying an additional 6.25% on $700. I'm more than a little peeved about not being able to preorder.
Can someone tell me what battery case to buy - and how they work? My 5 died at 4 hrs 10 mins and 9 percent showing. I give up and will buy a battery extender case.
Edit: This, unless things drastically change, will be my last iPhone.
Edit: This, unless things drastically change, will be my last iPhone.
If the reports are true that the 5C will start at $735 in China, I have no idea what Apple is doing.
I did not upgrade from the last year, so going from the 4S to the 5S will be a big jump. I still have no interest in carrying calculator sized phone in my pocket, so I am glad the overall size did not change.
I did not upgrade from the last year, so going from the 4S to the 5S will be a big jump. I still have no interest in carrying calculator sized phone in my pocket, so I am glad the overall size did not change.
Do you actually need a battery case or can you get by with a power bank you carry in laptop bag / backpack? All of the battery cases completely change the look and feel of the phone to the point that it really isn't worth doing.canderson said:
Watch a BMW commercial some time. I think Apple aims more at that crowd than the Taco Bell "super big ass" crowd. In general when you're aiming at a crowd that cares more about design and function than huge specs, it's going to come off that way. Basically, I think the feel of an Apple ad is going to feel more like those BMW ads than an Iroc Z ad. The aim for elegance breeds the level of douchiness you speak of.jayhoz said:
I'm honestly not sure.jayhoz said:
For instance, in two weeks we'll be in a bunch of new cities so ill use it walking around a lot. I won't carry a bag walking around, so how would a power bank help in this case?
Poor you. You have to actually pay the taxes you are legally obligated to pay.
Sorry for my acts of moral turpitude by committing the commercial equivalent of jaywalking. The state, through its agreement with Amazon to not collect any sales tax until the fall, has given online tax-free shopping its tacit approval.
Sorry for my acts of moral turpitude by committing the commercial equivalent of jaywalking. The state, through its agreement with Amazon to not collect any sales tax until the fall, has given online tax-free shopping its tacit approval.
They already have a strong position there and I don't see this advancing that significantly. Where they are not doing well is in the ascendant parts of EMEA, Latin America (where Microsoft actually has a perplexingly strong position), and so on. I don't think their market position is not sustainable in the long-term off of the U.S./Canada, EFIGS, and Japan.crow216 said:
You're right. It's still an upmarket phone.JakeRae said:
They do if they follow the law in most of those states. It's possible that there are states where they don't have to do this, I really don't know. They definitely tax purchases delivered to MA.shlincoln said:
Domer said:
Don't interpret my lack of sympathy as an act of condemnation. Not remitting the tax owed on online purchases unless collected by the merchant is standard behavior in our country. It's certainly not something I would characterize as morally damning given its prevalence. But, that doesn't mean you should feel an entitlement to engage in that behavior or that anyone should feel sympathy for the fact that you were prevented from engaging in that behavior.
i couldn't be more happy if the finger print scanner actually works. We're required to have the devices encrypted and a passcode on for work which is a real pain in the ass a lot of the time. Put on the finger print scanner and good to go.
I'm not sure why anyone expected anything more. They kept the same form-factor, put in a 64 bit chip, better camera (looks to be much better) and kept battery life about the same. I'm not sure what people wanted outside of a bigger screen which everyone knew wasn't happening months ago.
In the Smartphone race, what is anyone really going to do going forward outside of software and design? You can't keep making phones bigger than they are now (on the Android side) and battery life is what it is until someone comes up with some new battery technology or some other massive power saving component (screens mainly)
The one thing I did want to see is the 5C come in at $499 in China.
I'm not sure why anyone expected anything more. They kept the same form-factor, put in a 64 bit chip, better camera (looks to be much better) and kept battery life about the same. I'm not sure what people wanted outside of a bigger screen which everyone knew wasn't happening months ago.
In the Smartphone race, what is anyone really going to do going forward outside of software and design? You can't keep making phones bigger than they are now (on the Android side) and battery life is what it is until someone comes up with some new battery technology or some other massive power saving component (screens mainly)
The one thing I did want to see is the 5C come in at $499 in China.
NortheasternPJ said:
The Razr Maxx has a 3,300 mAh battery compared to the iPhone 5's 1,440 mAh battery. The battery life most certainly is not an unsolvable problem given today's battery technology. Apple has made the decision that people are so in love with the form factor that they will put up with crappy battery life.
The 5C will cost the equivalent of $733 in China. Not a huge bargain compared to the $865 cost of an iPhone 5 today.
I think it's complete hyperbole to say the iPhone has anything other than decent to above average battery life. I think it's entirely possible that Apple has a shitty policy about defining what is and isn't a defective battery, and they've likely alienated some customers by refusing to replace phones that don't perform to their expected specifications. I've heard enough horror stories to know that some people just got lemons, and the Genius bar has told them that the battery life was considered acceptable. That's horseshit and I can get behind anyone angry about the policy, but I think there are just too many iPhones out there that last to and above apple's estimates to say that battery issues are pervasive. I mean, I've owned every generation of iPhone that has existed, and had several apple refurbs for various reasons, and I've never experienced anything like what I read on here. It definitely took a hit when they added LTE, but I've never had an iPhone that struggled to make it through a day with my usage patterns, whereas I've had several android devices about which I couldn't say the same thing.
I think it's complete hyperbole to say the iPhone has anything other than decent to above average battery life. I think it's entirely possible that Apple has a shitty policy about defining what is and isn't a defective battery, and they've likely alienated some customers by refusing to replace phones that don't perform to their expected specifications. I've heard enough horror stories to know that some people just got lemons, and the Genius bar has told them that the battery life was considered acceptable. That's horseshit and I can get behind anyone angry about the policy, but I think there are just too many iPhones out there that last to and above apple's estimates to say that battery issues are pervasive. I mean, I've owned every generation of iPhone that has existed, and had several apple refurbs for various reasons, and I've never experienced anything like what I read on here. It definitely took a hit when they added LTE, but I've never had an iPhone that struggled to make it through a day with my usage patterns, whereas I've had several android devices about which I couldn't say the same thing.
Agree 100%. The battery issues I hear about on here are unlike anyone I know, including the 8 or 9 that I've owned that were either returbs or brand new.
Agree 100%. The battery issues I hear about on here are unlike anyone I know, including the 8 or 9 that I've owned that were either returbs or brand new.
I never had them before my 5; if you kids want screenshots and so forth I'll provide them. What pisses me off the most is AppleCare via phone said my battery failed and it would be replaced. When I got to the store they ran the test and it shows perfect and thus no replacement. At one point an AppleCare girl offered to send my a battery and have my install it myself. I mean, come the fuck on.
I think it's an iOS issue as much as a battery issue. But my complete restorations only make a dent of a difference and within two weeks it's gone.
I think it's an iOS issue as much as a battery issue. But my complete restorations only make a dent of a difference and within two weeks it's gone.
I don't think anyone is doubting you that it's got some sort of issue. Did you try to bring it to the Apple Store again and be a bit more pushy after they deny it?
The Apple Store is getting worse at giving customers exchanges, but they really should help you out.
The Apple Store is getting worse at giving customers exchanges, but they really should help you out.
I have gone twice, last time ended with me almost punching the motherfucker after he told me it isn't a phone problem and I'm getting what I should expect. Full caveat, the Apple store near me (in Lancaster PA) is hell on earth and full of the worst Genius Bar employees you'll probably ever find.NortheasternPJ said:
NortheasternPJ said:
My Motorola Atrix (Android) has a fingerprint scanner. I thought it was just a gimmick when I bought the thing, but it's awesome (and works well) to the point that that's a feature I'm definitely going to miss on my next phone if it doesn't have it.
teddykgb said:
Agree as well -- have had 3 different i-phones, including the 5, and the complaints on here about battery life are a complete "does not compute with my experience." Especially the 5 has had excellent battery life for me -- perhaps I'm just lucky, not sure.
Tony C said:
I'll echo these sentiments as well. The only time I've noticed my battery draining rapidly is in dense urban areas (Manhattan, for one) where the GPS and WiFi searches must be going nuts, so I have to remember to switch them off occasionally. Other than that, no problems that every other smartphone save the Maxx doesn't also suffer from.
I can't wait for the 5S, the fingerprint scanner, processor, and LTE is a pretty massive leap over my 4S.
The battery life on my 5 is fine, and unlike most that I read here.
The battery life on my wife's 4S is very much like what I read here. Goes from 14% to off in one minute, etc etc.
I'm not all in love with the iPhone and would be open to moving off the iOS platform, but I'd be concerned about certain apps not working. I don't mean popular apps like MLB or popular games, but somewhat random apps that I use everyday like Sonos, Hunter Douglas, Parkmobile, etc. Is it ridiculous to think that there are apps on iOS that wouldn't work on android?
The battery life on my wife's 4S is very much like what I read here. Goes from 14% to off in one minute, etc etc.
I'm not all in love with the iPhone and would be open to moving off the iOS platform, but I'd be concerned about certain apps not working. I don't mean popular apps like MLB or popular games, but somewhat random apps that I use everyday like Sonos, Hunter Douglas, Parkmobile, etc. Is it ridiculous to think that there are apps on iOS that wouldn't work on android?
Sonos and parkmobile are on the play store. Hunter Douglas is not, but it's coming soon.
http://www.hunterdouglas.com/customer-support-faqs-individual-answer.jsp?id=84
http://www.hunterdouglas.com/customer-support-faqs-individual-answer.jsp?id=84
canderson said:
To be clear, I wasn't saying you are being dishonest, I just don't think your experience is typical. Given your experiences, I'd have expected you to have gotten a new phone from Apple by now, but they have become more more stingy as the volume (and probably scams) has gone up. Apple doesn't have a great track record in admitting its mistakes. A boatload of people had to fork out money over the shitty water damage sensors they used in I believe the 3g, and now there's a suit because they were proven to throw false positives. The Geniuses were complete assholes about it at the time, as well.
I think you're right that it's a store to store thing. There are some stores where the Apple store is what it always has been, just an incredible exercise in customer service, where they get that I paid a premium for this device and expect to be treated as such. There are some where the staff just seems angry and antagonistic.
I'd like to say that, although I've seen my battery take a hit since I upgraded to the 5, it hasn't been something that has been so bad I'd complain - I still get a full day with fairly heavy usage and more than a day on weekends. I've also never had call drop issues nor did I ever have a problem with Apple Maps (although I prefer and use Google Maps). As Tony C said above, maybe I'm just lucky. I live in a pretty rural location though, so I'm not dealing with millions of other customers or tall buildings and our roads don't change that frequently.
Likely dumb question: If I'm backing up automatically via iCloud, there would be no need to back up my iPhone or iPad via iTunes, right? (I'm just wanting to make sure I've got a recent and complete backup before iOS 7 today in case things get weird.)
No, you should be alright.
Anandtech benchmarks for the 5S released:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/5
Anandtech benchmarks for the 5S released:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/5
teddykgb said:
Just to add on to this: I live in a place with multiple Apple Stores nearby. Last year I bought a MacBook and an Airport router. Last month the MacBook couldn't find the router. I called Apple Care. They asked me to reset my P-RAM and V-RAM by hitting an obscene series of keystrokes that I just couldn't do. Since they couldn't help me over the phone, they booked me an appointment at a Genius Bar. The Genius Bar couldn't fix it and told me to basically go pound sand. I called Apple Care again from within the store. They booked me an appointment at another store less than 3 miles away. The other Apple Store couldn't fix my problem either, but they diagnosed that the problem was with the router, not the MacBook.
For my trouble they replaced and upgraded the router, gave me an ethernet adapter, gave me an iTunes gift card, and straight up gave me cash to cover the cab fare between the two stores.
It's like that Family Guy where they win the lottery and decide that they want to build two Denny's so they can say, "let's go to the good one."