not sure that’s the guy we want with a new qb and potentially leaky o line. Bieniemy didn’t do much to protect Sam Howell - the guy took a million hits
BOB is the new OC at Ohio State
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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McDaniels came back for Bill's final game at Gillette, then went to his farewell presser and walked out of the room with Bill once it was finished. I think it's highly unlikely that he's now going to come work for the Patriots and NOT go with Bill to Atlanta.
edit: typos and clarification
edit: typos and clarification
What can an OC do about a line that can't do their job though? The line needs to be physically and mentally prepared to do their job and if they can't it has a cataclysmic effect on the whole offense. A shitty line will make even the best offensive system look like dog meat.
The Chiefs offense has also been a lot sloppier without him, so maybe he and Reid made each other better.
Call better plays for one. WAS ran BY FAR the most passing plays in the league. Over 66% of their plays were passes (next closest was CIN at 63.45%) and it's not like they were bad at running, 7th best YPC in the league. The best way to help a young QB with a dodgy passblocking line is to run the ball. Other teams lined up in Dime and Bienemy just kept throwing into it down after down. He kept trying to go spread an roll Howell... it never worked because Howell isn't Mahomes. Didn't use TEs in-line much, etc.
Bienemy may be a good OC for a team with a great QB and tons of talent, but I saw nothing in him this year that would make me want him with a young QB and rebuilding team, he was stubborn and ineffective and didn't bring much positive value.
Their players are a lot shittier and Kelce got old is probably far more the issue.
BoB just wanted to work with an upgrade at QB. Can't blame him for that.
Unlike others here, I'd welcome McDaniels back here as OC under Mayo if that situation materializes. He's a very talented OC and even Mac had a decent year under his tutelage. All this talk about "ghosts" strikes me as entirely misguided, there's no such thing. BB is gone and he was the old regime; anyone here is automatically in uncharted territory.
Unlike others here, I'd welcome McDaniels back here as OC under Mayo if that situation materializes. He's a very talented OC and even Mac had a decent year under his tutelage. All this talk about "ghosts" strikes me as entirely misguided, there's no such thing. BB is gone and he was the old regime; anyone here is automatically in uncharted territory.
I'd take McDaniels back as well. Mayo could pretty confidently turn the offense over to him. He wouldn't be a HC in waiting, because if this explodes, he'd be gone too, and he likely isn't getting another HC shot elsewhere for a while. Saw Frank Reich mentioned too, for similar reasons.
But I'd also be okay with one of the up and comers--Shawn Jefferson, Waldron, Robinson, etc. with the knowledge that they could move on quickly if they do well. Mayo was involved in some of the interviews a year ago.
But I'd also be okay with one of the up and comers--Shawn Jefferson, Waldron, Robinson, etc. with the knowledge that they could move on quickly if they do well. Mayo was involved in some of the interviews a year ago.
The whole transfer thing and NIL money in college football creates some weird dynamics, I think. I thought they were screwed when McCord left, but I guess they got Will Howard now.
Brian Hartline holds the title OC/WR coach, and the presumption was that OC was a vanity title to keep him from leaving while Day runs the offense. Hartline’s strength is recruiting; he’s one of the best in the country, if not the best.
I'll take your word for it since I didn't watch much of WAS this year, but a glance at their schedule looks like they played a pretty soft schedule versus the pass. Twice against Philly who was second worst to WAS in passing yards allowed. Broncos, Seahawks, Rams, Giants were all pretty soft versus the pass as well. Versus the run they played the 1, 6, 8, 10, 16 stingiest D's.
Their own D was the worst against the pass and 6th worst against the run. In their losses they gave up 37, 34, 40, 14, 38, 29, 31, 45, 45, 28, 30, 27, 38 so it looks like they were in a bunch of shoot outs, getting their doors blow off, and in catch up mode. Not exactly when you need to be running the ball. Again, I'm not sure if the guy did a good, mediocre, or shitty job, but given the context above I'm not sure that running the ball would have cured their offensive problems. They also didn't "by far" run the most pass plays in the league. They ran one more pass than KC and only 30 more than the number 10 team by attempts in New Orleans.
I think the trends in the league these days is to pass to set up the run which was a trend established by KC(under Reid/Bienemy). Defenses have adjusted to pass happy offenses and are ok with giving up yards on the ground because the days of "you GOTTA establish the run" and playing "smashmouth!!!" are dead and buried and you win by passing and stopping the pass / limiting big plays through the air.
Consensus seems to be Hartline is staying with a co-OC or passing game coordinator title
I meant by far on a percentage basis 66% is a ton and the gap to 2nd was big. Nothing likely would totally cure their offense, but one way you get your doors blown off like they did is to come out spread, go 3 and out or turn it over, give up a score, rinse and repeat.
Against the run they also played (by YPA).... the worst run D in the league, the 3rd worst run D twice, the 4th worst run D, the 5th worst run D, the 6th worst run D..... I'm seeing a pattern here.
It's not just about the run of course, that was just an example of how they could help out the line and QB, there are other ways, but overall that offense was no better under him than before he got there and throughout the year there were a lot of rumblings about his playcalling and players being unhappy to the point Rivera was getting asked about it in PC>
I love me some Jacoby, and he should have been their starter, but it's hard to know what weight to put on his performances given he basically only played in games they were down 30 in the second half.
Honestly Shawn Jefferson would probably have been a better choice than Mayo. Twice been associate head coach. I think he would be a danger to Mayo if this go sour to have him here but I would love to try it (oC) Then maybe move Brown to ST and have someone else take over WR?
Eh, I'm really not seeing much of a case for WAS to run more. Robinson and Gibson were both at 4.1 ypc which is fine, but both lead RBs with four fumbles each(178 carries and 65(!) carries, so a fumble every 44.5 and 16.25 carries). Howell had 21 INTs. They were just a disaster when it came to ball security. In Week 11 versus the Giants they ran for 174 yards, won the TOP battle by over 9 minutes and still lost by 12 points. Every single game versus those pancake rush defenses they were trailing or tied(1 game) at the half.
Mac had half a decent year under McDaniels. Not sure what the deal was - maybe the league got the book on him, maybe the Pats faced stiffer competition in the second half - but it sure wasn't an overall good year for Mac, IMO, even if he did "make" the Pro Bowl. That said, if McDaniels came back, I guess that'd be okay. But he's not coming back. He's going with Bill.
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I am happy for BOB, he has a special needs kid, and am sure it's a relief to have a big-money job. I don't blame him for this atrocious offense, he was not allowed to create his own coaching staff, and the personnel on offense were so lousy.
Bedard said O'B had another 2 years to run on his Patriots contract, which again reinforces the plan had Mayo taking over from BB a bit farther down the road than what ultimately transpired.
I honestly don't understand why Josh McDaniels would want to go back to being an OC, unless it's with Bill at his new gig just for old time's sake and the challenge. He's never getting another NFL head coaching job so there's no need to waste time auditioning as a coordinator, and he certainly doesn't need the money. If I were him, I'd think about starting a QB school or something for youngsters.
You don't understand why someone might rather coordinate an NFL offense than start a QB school for youngsters?
He's set for life financially and he had the great good fortune of coordinating the offense for the greatest QB of all time, so yeah I don't understand why he'd want to go back to coordinating for some random team minus a hook like reuniting with Belichick.
I'm just here to wish BOB well in his new position at one of Ohio's public institutions of higher learning.
Might be the smart move in self-care but he's still in his 40s. He probably thinks he can do the QB institute thing in 20 years, not now. Or maybe enroll in some management classes so he can address the biggest issue in his profile.
Because he might rather be an OC than run a QB school? That's what he might enjoy doing?
hahahahaha, I had the same thought. I think there are worse outcomes for Josh McD than being an NFL OC with basically no chance at being the head coach ever again.
I think back to Gary Kubiak, who out of nowhere got another chance to be a HC, and won a SB with the corpse of Peyton Manning in 2015. Who knows what the future has in store for McDaniels.
Denver was only Kubiak’s second HC job. McDaniels has already failed twice. He’s done as a head coach.
He's still only 47. Hell, succeeding Belichick in Atlanta seems plausible (if improbable). You never know.
Right but it was kind of by accident. He wasn't just out there in the open coaching market. Denver failed under John Fox, Kubiak was the OC for Baltimore, and then Kubiak returned "home" to Denver. It was kind of a perfect storm. I agree that no other team will hire McDaniels as HC. But perhaps there is some kind of perfect storm scenario where the Krafts would.
Obviously, another major difference is that Kubiak was the Texans HC for 8 years, and had way more success than Josh had at either stop.
Exactly.
Much like how some suggest the Belichick sons would be smart to stay here as it would show their ability to be successful without their father, I think the same could be said for Josh. If he came back to the Pats and turned the offense around it would go a long way to rehabbing his image and possibly set him up well to succeed Mayo if and when he moves on. Not saying I want this, just that it would make some sense.
I would recommend people (re-)watch Do Your Job 3 which documents the 2018 title team and heavily features McDaniels. There’s some great chalk talk and he comes off super knowledgeable as well as personable. And, lest we forget, Josh pretty much retooled the Patriots offense 12 weeks into the season to develop a power run game that more or less ran them into the Super Bowl.
I know Brady and Bill are the GOATs. And that the Raiders stint was another bust. But the guy can absolutely coach an offense.
I know Brady and Bill are the GOATs. And that the Raiders stint was another bust. But the guy can absolutely coach an offense.
People were saying Pete Carroll would never coach an NFL game again after being fired from New England. So, no reason for Josh McDaniels to give up coaching at the age of 47.
If Josh goes to college as an HC and wins as much as Pete did at USC, then someone may give him another shot. If he stays in the NFL as an OC, then I think he's going to max out as an OC. Even in these succession scenarios, it'll be hard to show he can handle the top job again without having run an entire team successfully.
Have to believe it was a negotiated buyout once Bill was relieved of his duties. No reason for Kraft to play hardball here, and I cannot imagine he was fired without such news leaking out somewhere. Also, from the time he arrived in New England there were rumors that BoB wanted to go coach at the college level again.
Seems to me that BOB is positioning himself for another college head coaching gig. Making such a quick move to OSU tells me that he plans to put in a year or two in Columbus and then seek out an SEC or Big10 gig. He's got the resume for it and will be a hot commodity if/when OSU put on another great season in 2024.
BOB has some good media relationships, Bedard has admitted as much, so I am not surprised BOB is getting covering fire as he departs NE.