Charlie Pierce on Twitter reporting that Bobby Knight has passed away.
View: https://twitter.com/CharlesPPierce/status/1719845910962753545
View: https://twitter.com/CharlesPPierce/status/1719845910962753545
Bobby Knight dead at 83
- Thread starter Duende Roomer
- Start date
Wow, I went down a Bobby Knight rabbit hole on YouTube last night and googled him after to see if he was still alive.
Yeah, I didn't want to explicitly say it, but I do feel a little guilty. Have been trying to reach out the family to apologize but without any luck -- will keep you posted.
Breaking out of the P&G celebrity death thread. I don’t usually move posts from members-only forums to public forums; the two posts above seemed innocuous, but I trust the posters in question will let me know if they’re uncomfortable.
Well, the FBI just showed up at my door. Thanks.
EDIT: I'm not uncomfortable with this being public. I think Bobby would be proud that I spent ~30 minutes on him last night.
Hopefully he is choking college kids that need it in heaven. A great character in the history of sports.
If I recall, Auerbach wanted him to coach the C's at one point. I think we ended up with Bill Fitch who was also iron-fisted and hard ass. And he coached us to a championship so all good
I remember eating A Season on the Brink back when it was published. It was post-chair incident and the public relations tide had already turned against Knight, but I remember thinking at the time if I ever had sons, I’d sure like them to play for Coach Knight.
That said, Imsure knew I never could’ve handled it myself.
That said, Imsure knew I never could’ve handled it myself.
He once swore he wouldn't step foot again on the IU campus, but he did and it was memorable.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp2zfFMSPVQ
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp2zfFMSPVQ
Chuck Klosterman talks about reading that book and as soon as he was done flipping back to the front of the book and reading it again.
Chuck never ate it though. That’s a new one for me.
I don’t take pleasure in anyone’s death but I don’t feel a need to praise him either.
There were so many great coaches who succeeded without losing control and putting their hands on players. I always thought it was a very bad look and a terrible example for a coach of young men, not because I’m pearl clutching on my fainting couch but because that kind of self indulgence and petulance is a burden to a competitor. You can’t teach grace under pressure if you can’t live it. Yes, he was an accomplished coach but you can’t tell me that he didn’t hurt himself over the years.
There were so many great coaches who succeeded without losing control and putting their hands on players. I always thought it was a very bad look and a terrible example for a coach of young men, not because I’m pearl clutching on my fainting couch but because that kind of self indulgence and petulance is a burden to a competitor. You can’t teach grace under pressure if you can’t live it. Yes, he was an accomplished coach but you can’t tell me that he didn’t hurt himself over the years.
I’m a Dukie, a Bilas fan, a Knight fan… is this any different than Mookie commenting on Bauer?
He was a bully who used physical force against people that he knew couldn't retaliate because of his own personal power. That's the kind of person I'd show my kids as an example of someone not to emulate. Shithead.
My strongest memory of Bobby Knight was him saying in a postgame interview after Indiana had a huge comeback against LSU in a NCAA tourney game, "I thought all was lost, but then I looked down the sideline and saw Dale Brown and knew we had a chance." Which was tremendous shade. I think it might have been in one of the Shaq LSU years.
I think one reason he never tried the NBA is he knew that crap wouldn’t fly with grown ass men.
And to think that Knight coached Krzyzewski at Army, offered him a job as an assistant at Indiana and, well, the rest is heestorey.
No this was 87, the Keith Smart Steve Alford Championship season.
And since Sherman Douglas got me into college bball, I hate him (BK) for this too.
Me, too! And at nearly the exact same time, when Knight went after Feinstein for writing a book that managed to be immensely positive, Knight lost me forever.
Bobby Knight is, as expected, throwing chairs and f-bombs on his way to Hell, having been ejected from Heaven's waiting room for taking the Lord's name in vain and telling legendary critic, Saint Peter, to kiss his ass.
Growing up in the flyover state Indiana basketball was a cohesive force. I wasn't around or too young for 75/76 or 81...but that 74-76 team had talent. Of course 81 did top with Isaiah Thomas.
1987 Indiana VS Syracuse...the talent disparity was amazing
Syracuse:
Derrick Coleman
Rony Seikly
Sherman Douglas
All 3 had long NBA careers
Indiana:
Steve Alford. 3 years in the NBA
Dean Garrett 6 as a journeyman later in life
Knight didn't want the 3 pointer. That actually helped him win the 87 championship. Also helped his motion offense with spreading the floor.
He didn't adjust though. Too rigid to implement fast break 3 pointers.
After the early 90s when he could have won a 4th with Calbert Cheaney, Damon Bailey, Alan Henderson and more he basically coasted on recruiting and then IU got sick of him for all the drama and fired him.
Ostracized to Lubbock, Texas at Texas Tech where he almost made an elite 8.
The stories are insane.
I think I remember Jordan's first retirement and Knight walked out and someone made a comment about Knight not letting Jordan score enough...or something. Jordan smirked but there was tension, because only Knight had enough "status" to say whatever he wanted.
Fascinating individual but clearly had mental health issues. Would love to see a brain scan. Friends with Parcells and Larussa and Halvichek and Ted Williams.
Almost left after his 1981 championship to do TV.
Would have loved to be a fly on the wall. More suited for navy seal training I imagine.
Edit: was smart enough to know his shtick wouldn't work in the NBA. Players made more. Interestingly enough he wasn't that highly paid compared to his peers. The endorsements made up for it.
1987 Indiana VS Syracuse...the talent disparity was amazing
Syracuse:
Derrick Coleman
Rony Seikly
Sherman Douglas
All 3 had long NBA careers
Indiana:
Steve Alford. 3 years in the NBA
Dean Garrett 6 as a journeyman later in life
Knight didn't want the 3 pointer. That actually helped him win the 87 championship. Also helped his motion offense with spreading the floor.
He didn't adjust though. Too rigid to implement fast break 3 pointers.
After the early 90s when he could have won a 4th with Calbert Cheaney, Damon Bailey, Alan Henderson and more he basically coasted on recruiting and then IU got sick of him for all the drama and fired him.
Ostracized to Lubbock, Texas at Texas Tech where he almost made an elite 8.
The stories are insane.
I think I remember Jordan's first retirement and Knight walked out and someone made a comment about Knight not letting Jordan score enough...or something. Jordan smirked but there was tension, because only Knight had enough "status" to say whatever he wanted.
Fascinating individual but clearly had mental health issues. Would love to see a brain scan. Friends with Parcells and Larussa and Halvichek and Ted Williams.
Almost left after his 1981 championship to do TV.
Would have loved to be a fly on the wall. More suited for navy seal training I imagine.
Edit: was smart enough to know his shtick wouldn't work in the NBA. Players made more. Interestingly enough he wasn't that highly paid compared to his peers. The endorsements made up for it.
I ran the full spectrum with Knight, going from being a big admirer and fan, to eventually having a greatly diminished view of him. Season On The Brink was a great read, and at the time only depended my admiration and rationalization of him. But as time went on, and I grew up and matured, I began to view him as the epitome of everything wrong with powerful, provincial, largely unchallenged college coaches. He was undeniably a brilliant coach, his best teams played a beautiful brand of basketball, his programs were scandal free, and the vast majority of his players graduated. All of which could have, and has been by others, accomplished without all of the cruelty, bullying, crudity, and rage he brought to the table. For a guy who relentlessly preached discipline to his players, he possessed very little of it himself. At any rate, an iconic, original cultural figure. Just not, IMO, a very admirable one.
I saw him win the National Championship in person at the Superdome in '87. When IU won, he walked off the court as if he were coaching a Wellesley win over Dedham in January. A longtime Ted Williams buddy. I am sure that in every presidential election since 1972, he and I voted for different candidates.
At the end of the day you are judged by the impact you've had on others. Looking at that arena floor filled with his former players who loved and admired him so much that they would travel from all over the country to be there with him that night....that speaks volumes. It's all you have to know. RIP Coach
This is a very funny clip. Worth watching. (Can’t say more without giving it away.)
When he wasn’t being an asshole (and sometimes when he was), he could be a very witty guy.
He had Alzheimer’s and this guy wrote a book about the 1940’s Cleveland Indians that was p much the only thing that spurred his memory.
Yeah, he embraced the ones who played well and made him look good, so they returned. The players who made mistakes, he choked, screamed at and berated, and drove them out of his program. Hard to imagine a worse leader of young men.
You guys inspired me to buy a copy of the Season on the Brink book. Can get it used for peanuts on Amazon. I look forward to reading it.
Yeah, I think that is literally *not* all you need to know.
The hagiography on social media right now is borderline sickening. It seemed to have started with a lot of people acknowledging how mixed his legacy was as a person while celebrating his basketball achievements. Which predictably has now turned into a full-on sploogefest that is like Paterno Redux.
I think my favorite one was the post noting that “Coach Knight didn’t get emotional often” before showing a clip of him saying how his favorite player of all the players he coached was, checks notes, Pat Knight.
IIRC, Larry Bird, a homesick IU freshman, got discouraged when he said hi to Knight on the IU campus and Knight ignored him. Larry left IU soon thereafter.
For years, I was conflicted about Bobby Knight. He could be charming, intelligent, belligerent and impossible. Yet the costs seemed worth it, in the sense that he (usually) graduated his players and seemed to have their best interests at heart most of the time.
Then I read the deposition of Mike Davis, who succeeded Knight as head coach. He was giving evidence in a lawsuit filed by Ron Felling, a longtime assistant who had been assaulted (and then fired) by Knight after he overheard Felling making a mild criticism of his temper on a phone call.
Bob Knight was a coaching genius who leveraged his success into a position of unquestioned authority at Indiana. Sadly, he became so obsessed with his quest for basketball perfection that he lost all perspective and, by the end of his career, had turned into a destructive monster.
RIP
Then I read the deposition of Mike Davis, who succeeded Knight as head coach. He was giving evidence in a lawsuit filed by Ron Felling, a longtime assistant who had been assaulted (and then fired) by Knight after he overheard Felling making a mild criticism of his temper on a phone call.
https://www.wthr.com/article/news/ron-felling-vs-bob-knight-0/531-203af2f3-4605-454e-bc9b-3d87d903b93e
Bob Knight was a coaching genius who leveraged his success into a position of unquestioned authority at Indiana. Sadly, he became so obsessed with his quest for basketball perfection that he lost all perspective and, by the end of his career, had turned into a destructive monster.
RIP
One video making the rounds today is a speech (on leadership I think) he's giving where he's talking about how at halftime of the 1984 gold medal game being up big on Spain. And he says at halftime, in 12 minutes of playing time, Jordan had 19 points, 11 boards, and 9 assists and despite a 29 point lead, he wasn't satisfied.
Going down a rabbit hole I found the box score. Jordan FINISHED that game with 20 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist.
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From Season on the Brink, I recall his handling of Delray Brooks. He was an Indiana Mr. Basketball, who, played well as a freshman, but Knight ultimately thought was too slow for his program. IIRC, he told him so, and Brooks transferred to Providence, where he starred on Pitino's Final 4 team.
Growing up in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, I loved Indiana basketball and Bob Knight. I read and reread Season on the Brink, and when IU accepted me into their journalism grad program, I happily decided to go, being there in the 1991-1992 school year, so I got to see a Final 4 team that lost to eventual champion Duke. I always excused his boorish and bullying behavior, thinking it was the fault of the players for not being tough enough.
About a decade later, when I was publishing computer books, I had Michelle Reed, Neil's sister, as part of my group, and I got the opportunity to meet and interact with Neil. Hearing Neil's story and putting an actual face onto one of Knight's victims completely changed my opinion (although it was also possibly a case of Coach Knight taking things too far as well).
About a decade later, when I was publishing computer books, I had Michelle Reed, Neil's sister, as part of my group, and I got the opportunity to meet and interact with Neil. Hearing Neil's story and putting an actual face onto one of Knight's victims completely changed my opinion (although it was also possibly a case of Coach Knight taking things too far as well).