Brogdon to Boston for Theis/Nesmith/2023 1st

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
28,398
Just getting back into hoops after not watching much for twenty years but why? He's pretty cheap and not a terrible fourth guard/ninth or tenth man, especially with some injury prone points in front of him.
Yeah I mean if someone loves him sure, otherwise he's a cheap bench shooter, and since that was probably always going to be his role not sure anyone will trade value for him
 

Sox Puppet

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2016
685
In vaguely related news, the Warriors lost Gary Payton II to the Blazers. Not that it's that relevant, but our recent series would have played out quite differently with these new roster adjustments.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,847
Santa Monica
I am not reading any post in this thread yet…….

but if there is one person who even remotely, no wait. If there is one person who doesn’t absolutely LOVE this trade I will question your sanity as a Celtics fan. Holy crap Brad Fvckin Stevens!!!!!!
Nesmith getting shipped was the cherry on top for you?

I suspect Sam Hauser had passed him anyways
 

Ale Xander

doesn't like to back it in
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
55,771
Brogdon (pP insurance on injury )
Smart
Tatum
Durant
RW

Danilo
GW bench
(PP)
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,079
I think Brogdon coming off injury will be fine easing in... Season 2 though...
I'd love it if he did, but would be unusual for a guy in his prime who's done nothing but start for years to just accept a bench role.

I mean, the Celtics felt they had to start Hayward right away coming back from his foot falling off.

I hope you're right, but I can't see it.
 

soxin6

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
5,626
Huntington Beach, CA
Hate it
Walking injury machime
2 1st rounders (inc Nesmith

and now you have 4 PG
What did they really give up? Nesmith hasn’t developed and the Celtics will hopefully have the last pick in the first. If PBS thinks they have too many guards, he can always trade one. This trade is a clear upgrade.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,433
Jesus Christ, this is like one of those trades someone proposes on the 93.7 or 98.5, all the guys one team doesn't need for someone on the other team that's pretty good.
Totally! I remember an interview with Theo Epstein many years back where he was asked about trade ideas that made him roll eyes, and he mentioned "the volume trade," where it's like, let's trade 7 guys for Vlad Guerrero. This is the Volume Trade, sprung to life.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,847
Santa Monica
I'd love it if he did, but would be unusual for a guy in his prime who's done nothing but start for years to just accept a bench role.

I mean, the Celtics felt they had to start Hayward right away coming back from his foot falling off.

I hope you're right, but I can't see it.
IME plays it straight down the middle. The length of Malcolm's contract and the incessant losing in Indiana should make him happy to be ring chasing in Boston.

2BIGz may see less minutes to shrink wrap TL/Al (boy did I get that prediction wrong last year)
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
47,209
Hate it
Walking injury machime
2 1st rounders (inc Nesmith

and now you have 4 PG
Nesmith sucks. He’s not a 1st rounder anymore. Absurd characterization. Let them have the last pick in the draft, who cares? Buy an early 2nd next year if you want.
 

BigMike

Dope
Dope
Sep 26, 2000
22,866
Totally! I remember an interview with Theo Epstein many years back where he was asked about trade ideas that made him roll eyes, and he mentioned "the volume trade," where it's like, let's trade 7 guys for Vlad Guerrero. This is the Volume Trade, sprung to life.
Well Basically this trade is Brogdan for a 2023 #1. The volume is what was required to make the contracts match. I can't imagine Indy really valued any of it in the deal
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,847
Santa Monica
Nesmith sucks. He’s not a 1st rounder anymore. Absurd characterization. Let them have the last pick in the draft, who cares? Buy an early 2nd next year if you want.
they already have 3-4 2nd rounders for next year's draft. The C's have moved on to another stage and won't have the minutes to develop late 1sts
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,079
IME plays it straight down the middle. The length of Malcolm's contract and the incessant losing in Indiana should make him happy to be ring chasing in Boston
Again, hope you're right.

We'll see, but I don't expect both Smart to be here on opening night unless some other move is made so Brogdon/Smart can both start.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
4,098
I assume Brogdon starts and they do away with the two bigs? Even though I think Brogdon in isolation is a better PG than Smart, I'd rather have Brogdon play off-ball than vice-versa. Brogdon was so efficient in MIL playing off Giannis. If you look at his 3P%s by season, his two worst shooting years coincided with taking vastly higher proportions of unassisted 3s than any other point in his career.
 

amfox1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2003
6,079
The back of your computer
Well Basically this trade is Brogdan for a 2023 #1. The volume is what was required to make the contracts match. I can't imagine Indy really valued any of it in the deal
From The Athletic

Some crafty cap management set this up. Kudos to the Celtics for adding non-guaranteed years on the deals of Nik Stauskas, Juwan Morgan and Malik Fitts when they filled out the roster at the end of last season; they needed that filler today to amass juuuust enough outgoing salary to legally return Brogdon. Merry Christmas for each of them, as well, as their deals become guaranteed in order to complete this deal.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
5,387
Imaginationland
I'd think someone bigger than that is going out.

Unless the Celtics start smaller, or move Horford, I sadly think Smart is going out.

I don't see either Brogdon or Smart being happy coming off the bench, and they shouldn't be.

They're both too good.
I think the Celtics are going to have Horford come off the bench. He just played a REALLY long year, they need him fresh and ready to go in the spring. Smart/Brogdon/Brown/Tatum/TL is excellent defensively with enough shooting and playmaking to be a top 10 offense. The only issue may be rebounding, it's a pretty steep drop going from Horford (9.5 rebounds per 36) to Brogdon (5.5 rebounds per 36). Horford is smart enough to know it's time for this, and to know that it's the closing lineup that matters.
 

DourDoerr

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 15, 2004
2,736
Berkeley, CA
That's a crazy return on what went out. Love this move and it should mean whatever guards stay should be rested for the playoffs. Also, it'll allow for a more skilled small lineup. The last piece is a playable big man who can fit in a rotation with TL and AH. Need the insurance at that position too given Al's age and TL's injury history.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
25,530
Nesmith getting shipped was the cherry on top for you?

I suspect Sam Hauser had passed him anyways
1. Yes but I felt that was always happening once he became an expiring deal.

2. The talk of signing Hauser to a multi-year deal certainly indicated this was the plan.

3. Gallo and Thomas Bryant us next as veteran depth and that should be a wrap.

4. Sportsbooks already have us as the new favorite for the title next year and I don’t disagree.
Why? For the regular season they’ll need four guards. It just bumps PP further down the depth chart where he belongs.
Yeah, if anything this allows us to keep PP on his cheap rookie deal as emerfenxy

Edit: I’m just gonna keep that last word there. Good god.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
14,181
Hate it
Walking injury machime
2 1st rounders (inc Nesmith

and now you have 4 PG
Or, one PG and a bunch of guys who have basketball talent and can each playmake. But can each playmake only in their own limited and inconsistent manner.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,079
I think the Celtics are going to have Horford come off the bench. He just played a REALLY long year, they need him fresh and ready to go in the spring. Smart/Brogdon/Brown/Tatum/TL is excellent defensively with enough shooting and playmaking to be a top 10 offense. The only issue may be rebounding, it's a pretty steep drop going from Horford (9.5 rebounds per 36) to Brogdon (5.5 rebounds per 36). Horford is smart enough to know it's time for this, and to know that it's the closing lineup that matters.
This gets owly unless you make another move as well.

You'd have Horford, Grant and Gallo all coming off the bench.

That's too big.

I'd guess Horford still sees himself as a starter anyway. He said last year starting was important tp him.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
47,209
If they can get a real rotation big like Bryant for cheap then I adore this offseason.

They will go into next season with the same core + new players who fit. Basically swapping Pritchard as the bad D shooter for Gallo, which is great.

If healthy I think this team is just going to absolutely cook teams right from the jump with their defense. And the offense has gotten a whole lot better (and was already great in the 2H last season).

Maybe there is another shoe to drop if there is concern about roles & minutes. We’ll see.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
18,920
Smart
Brown
Tatum
RWilliams
Horford
Pritchard
White
Brogdon
GWilliams
Gallinari

That's really good. Need random depth pieces but this is really really good.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
12,094
From The Athletic
Is there anything better than being a fringe NBA player turned into salary ballast?

This doesn't happen in any other sport does it? These guys must be so effing-pumped when their agent calls and says they just doubled their career earnings (not true for Stuaskas of course) to help facilitate a trade going through.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
Hate it
Walking injury machime
2 1st rounders (inc Nesmith

and now you have 4 PG
Nesmith is not a first round pick. He's a guy who was picked in the first round and has not shown much of anything in the league. Most of the trade value of a first round pick is in the upside that it might yield a star...he is already not that.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
28,406
I am not reading any post in this thread yet…….

but if there is one person who even remotely, no wait. If there is one person who doesn’t absolutely LOVE this trade I will question your sanity as a Celtics fan. Holy crap Brad Fvckin Stevens!!!!!!
Yeah. And sure, there are health risks. But they have depth such that they don't need him to play 2000 minutes a year. What they really need is him to be able to play 25 minutes a game for six weeks in May-June.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
4,098
If they go away from the 2BIGZ you might not see either Rob or Al as the every day starter. They might just play it by match-up (e.g., you'd rather have Al vs Embiid or some of the other thicc bigs).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
27,344
Well Basically this trade is Brogdan for a 2023 #1. The volume is what was required to make the contracts match. I can't imagine Indy really valued any of it in the deal
Actually, it's more like BOS purchased Brogdan for something like $40M or $50M before luxury tax (can't do the math right now). Everything else is really just window-dressing.

Can't wait for the day when AN hits 6 3Ps against us (on 15 attempts).
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
18,920
This gets owly unless you make another move as well.

You'd have Horford, Grant and Gallo all coming off the bench.

That's too big.

I'd guess Horford still sees himself as a starter anyway. He said last year starting was important tp him.
Start Horford but you can still play him fewer minutes. Just take him out earlier than normal in the first Q.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,847
Santa Monica
Actually, it's more like BOS purchased Brogdan for something like $40M or $50M before luxury tax (can't do the math right now). Everything else is really just window-dressing.

Can't wait for the day when AN hits 6 3Ps against us (on 15 attempts).
Nesmith will be better with more minutes and a lower-key environment.

The kid just looked stressed with limited minutes
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,847
Santa Monica
Start Horford but you can still play him fewer minutes. Just take him out earlier than normal in the first Q.
They were already doing that with Rob and getting White in there earlier in the Finals

you want to get Horford down to 25mpg this season after playing 29mpg + long playoff run last year
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,079
Start Horford but you can still play him fewer minutes. Just take him out earlier than normal in the first Q.
This doesn't solve the six starters for five spots issue.

I know, as fans, we don't give a shit.

But it seems to be important to players.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
25,530
I assume Brogdon starts and they do away with the two bigs? Even though I think Brogdon in isolation is a better PG than Smart, I'd rather have Brogdon play off-ball than vice-versa. Brogdon was so efficient in MIL playing off Giannis. If you look at his 3P%s by season, his two worst shooting years coincided with taking vastly higher proportions of unassisted 3s than any other point in his career.
There is no rule that our starting lineup can’t be fluid. Guys will be injured at times, TL who knows, and Aging Al would surely be fine sliding into a second unit role. We are locked and loaded boys!!
 

EL Jeffe

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2006
1,200
Brad might be the best GM in the NBA. He's smart, aggressive, and creative. And he doesn't leak. IMO, Ainge only had 2 of those 4 qualities.

I was so dismissive of people who said they needed an upgrade at PG. And I was so wrong. I didn't see how they'd upgrade White and the Brad goes out and gets Brogdon for flotsam. Unreal. We are a lucky fanbase that's in very good hands.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
18,920
Shouldn't be an issue most of the regular season, as they'll routinely be giving guys nights off for "load management", plus injuries.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
42,157
Hartford, CT
This doesn't solve the six starters for five spots issue.

I know, as fans, we don't give a shit.

But it seems to be important to players.
This is the highest class problem you can have with personnel. Somehow I don’t see White, Gallinari, or Brogdon throwing fits because they’re losing minutes to Tatum, Smart, and Brown, but that’s the coach’s job to manage.
 

Helmet Head

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
3,643
Central Mass
Does anyone know why the Pacers were so willing to give Brogdon up for basically nothing and no one else was interested? I know injuries are a factor but is anything else going on behind the scenes with him? Just strange.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
26,971
Saskatoon Canada
Smart
Brown
Tatum
RWilliams
Horford
Pritchard
White
Brogdon
GWilliams
Gallinari

That's really good. Need random depth pieces but this is really really good.
I am with you. I hope they keep everyone too.

6 perimiter guys, if they use them interchangeably there are enough minutes
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Pritchard
White
Brogdon
 

Just a bit outside

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 6, 2011
6,101
Monument, CO
Does anyone know why the Pacers were so willing to give Brogdon up for basically nothing and no one else was interested? I know injuries are a factor but is anything else going on behind the scenes with him? Just strange.
They also cleared enough cap space for a max contract and there are rumors they may go after Ayton.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,079
This is the highest class problem you can have with personnel. Somehow I don’t see White, Gallinari, or Brogdon throwing fits because they’re losing minutes to Tatum, Smart, and Brown, but that’s the coach’s job to manage.
Not worried at all about White and Gallinari. They're both role players.

I'm worried about Brogdon/Smart. They're both clear starters.

Maybe whoever doesn't start is psyched and it's a non issue. I think it's unlikely.

Even the hassle of whichever guy does start, the media asking Ime and the players, maybe the other guy should be starting instead?, is a distraction.

I hope you guys are right, because I'm going to be gutted if Smart is traded, but I just don't see it as viable.

And that's before even getting into the money being spent.