Bruins v. Penguins on Pearl Harbor day
- Thread starter Dan to Theo to Ben
- Start date
Linesman wrapped up Iginla awfully quick after Neal shot on the Bruins net WAY after the horn. Enjoy your vacation, dickhead.
Fuck the Penguins, hope they're all dead and can't wait to take them down in the playoffs again as if they were small children just learning how to skate.
Orpik is traveling back with the team, which is good news. Thornton nearly in tears appologizing.
Providence will be traveling to Toronto tonight. Eriksson concussed, Kelly won't travel due to a slash he took in the 3rd and Thornton is suspended.
Spooner, Fraser up?
Edit: Thornton mans up and apologized. Knows he is rightfully getting the book thrown at him. Neal? "It was an accident" Fuck you James.
Spooner, Fraser up?
Edit: Thornton mans up and apologized. Knows he is rightfully getting the book thrown at him. Neal? "It was an accident" Fuck you James.
I may be in the minority, but I don't see the Thornton play warranting a double digit suspension. He slew footed him, but he also held him by the jersey/pads to prevent him from slamming into the ice. He didn't take off the gloves and didn't give him much more than hard jabs. You could see someone get punched 100 times like that with the gloves on and not see someone get knocked out.
If he slammed him to the ice and bare knuckle round housed him, your looking at 20+ type suspension. He has no priors and is already showing appropriate contrition. No knockout and it's 2 games tops. There's no way to predict the Shanaban, but I think 5 is the right number, and that's only because of the result.
If he slammed him to the ice and bare knuckle round housed him, your looking at 20+ type suspension. He has no priors and is already showing appropriate contrition. No knockout and it's 2 games tops. There's no way to predict the Shanaban, but I think 5 is the right number, and that's only because of the result.
I agree with rifan. They were jabs not haymakers. He didn't intend to knock him out. He had no business jumping on the ice and dragging him down though. I had a close friend get in a fight with a lesser friend over a pack if cigarettes. A punch to the chest stopped his heart and he died. It was a freak accident and even my close friends father understood the other guy had no idea anything like that was going to happen.
If Thornton did what he did and it didn't knock orpik out , which most times it wouldnt, it would be no big deal.
If Thornton did what he did and it didn't knock orpik out , which most times it wouldnt, it would be no big deal.
League announces Neal gets a phone hearing on Monday.
My guess is he gets off because Marchand wasn't injured. Despite being a repeat offender and a renowned shit head, that's just how the league works.
EditL Also, Thornton obviously gets an in-person hearing. Suspended indefinitely.
My guess is he gets off because Marchand wasn't injured. Despite being a repeat offender and a renowned shit head, that's just how the league works.
EditL Also, Thornton obviously gets an in-person hearing. Suspended indefinitely.
I'll expand in an attempt to be more constructive.Blacken said:
Thornton's actions didn't take place in a vacuum. Pittsburgh has, as an organization, regularly targeted the heads of opponents and generally played as a garage team even on the large stage if the playoffs.
This game, Brooks Orpik used a careless check that targeted the head of a player and concussed him. It was an unlucky result but was not unlikely given the carelessness of the hit. Thornton responded within the code, givin Orpik a chance to stand up for himself. He declined.
Mere minutes later, Neal, a repeat offender and general scumbag despite his skill, deliberately targeted the head of a completely defenseless player, and then ran of the ice.
At this point, Pittsburgh was up two bad hits to the head to none in 9:30 minutes of game time.
Thornton decided someone was going to get hit. There is no way he intended for Orpik to get taken off on a stretcher. He didn't try to kill him. Undefended by both the league and the officials, he decided to send a message that either recklessly or deliberately injuring his teammates would no longer be tolerated.
The result was unfortunate. But Orpik and Pittsburgh played in a way that invited retaliation, but didn't have the balls to take it straight up. Shit happens.
TL; DR:
You can't keep trying to injure and end careers without expecting to get one of your guys sent to the hospital.
You can't keep trying to injure and end careers without expecting to get one of your guys sent to the hospital.
I agree with almost all of this except the idea that it's OK to drag a guy down from behind and throw punches like that. That's not OK ever. Yes people throw punches when they're both down. I get that, but Thornton skated up, dragged BO to the ice, and threw a punch that likely wasn't intended to be a KO but was anyway. Then, with his opponent down and unconscious, he threw at least 2 more punches.Myt1 said:
For a guy who speaks up about the code and proper way to handle things on the ice as often as #22 does, that sequence of events is completely unacceptable on his part. Completely.
Was it McSorely-level? Bertuzzi? God no. But it was still really, really bad.
Let me preface this by saying I hope Orpik is ok. You hate to see something like that happen to any player.
But I'm a little torn on this one. Thornton did cross the line of acceptable hockey behavior by sneaking up on him and catching him off guard. But at the end of the day, it was a glove punch that ended up very very badly. Guys punch each other in the face with their gloves on every single game. Because Orpik suffered a dramatic injury we should start comparing this to Bertuzzi/Moore? No fucking way they're similar at all. Thornton deserves a few games, and I wouldn't complain with anything under 10. Anything more than that is a joke.
James Neal intentionally kneed a vulnerable player in the head. That's getting seriously overlooked by the hockey media because of the drama surrounding Orpik. Dave Lozo made a very good point, that if Marchand was KOed and Orpik was fine, this would be a very different discussion we'd be having now. I think we'd be talking about Neal's knee as one of the dirtiest plays ever, and Thornton would have gotten a 2 minute roughing penalty.
But I'm a little torn on this one. Thornton did cross the line of acceptable hockey behavior by sneaking up on him and catching him off guard. But at the end of the day, it was a glove punch that ended up very very badly. Guys punch each other in the face with their gloves on every single game. Because Orpik suffered a dramatic injury we should start comparing this to Bertuzzi/Moore? No fucking way they're similar at all. Thornton deserves a few games, and I wouldn't complain with anything under 10. Anything more than that is a joke.
James Neal intentionally kneed a vulnerable player in the head. That's getting seriously overlooked by the hockey media because of the drama surrounding Orpik. Dave Lozo made a very good point, that if Marchand was KOed and Orpik was fine, this would be a very different discussion we'd be having now. I think we'd be talking about Neal's knee as one of the dirtiest plays ever, and Thornton would have gotten a 2 minute roughing penalty.
Exactly this. He bounced Orpik's head off the ice repeatedly. Not ever acceptable under any circumstances. I respect that he did the right thing after the game, but that cannot be allowed. Sure, Neal should be definitely get a vacation for kneeing a defenseless Marchand. Thornton earned a considerably longer suspension by committing a considerably worse act.Judge Mental13 said:
One of these guys is a repeat offender and the other isn't so I think the "considerably longer" piece is misguided.Blacken said:
Whatever supplemental discipline Neal receives won't be subject to "repeat offender" status because it's been 20 months since his last suspension and the cut-off is 18 months. That's not excusing what he did b/c I think it does warrant a multiple-game ban, just a fact.
As Greg noted, Neal isn't considered a repeat offender anymore. And even irrespective of that I think Thornton did something considerably worse.kenneycb said:
The league uses dart boards, so it could be like five games for Thornton, but I think they'll recognize the insanity of letting that go with a mild suspension.
After pulling him down, he punched him in the face. His head dropped to the ice - wasn't forced - then Thornton punched him in the head again. I think the first punch was the one the knocked him out, with the second adding to it. You inaccurately describe the events for effect.
Thornton's taking a trip upstate, and it's warranted for what he did to Orpik. However unappealing Orpik's hit on Ericsson was, the NHL views that sort of hit as acceptable (for whatever hare-brained reason). So Thornton did what he did to get payback for a legal check. I agree he'll get a longer suspension than Neal, but that's only because the NHL punishes outcome rather than process.
Wasn't aware the NHL set some sort of time limitation on "repeat." Thanks for the info.
Fred in Lynn said:
Apart from adding the slewfoot while Orpik was otherwise occupied (chirping Campbell), this is exactly how I see it. Two shots, the first doing the damage, with a gloved hand. Still, no "code" there. Thornton should be as embarrassed - I'm kind of relieved to see how bad he feels about it.
The Orpik hit on Loui is close...if you were on the ice and just looked up to see that hit? It's tough. Loui was tracking the puck, head down. Clearly, Thornton was seeing red for wanting to even up the hit on Loui and Orpik declining his challenge, but we all agree that this is is unacceptable.
What Neal did was shitty on different level; supremely reckless. Shinguard to a prone guys head? I guess he will claim he was looking away and that he had no idea Marchand was down there...
Fuck, we all like to hate us some Penguins, but all of these guys have to start respecting each other merely at a minimum level.
Have you even watched the replay or are you deliberately using hyperbole to make your point?Blacken said:
It was a disgusting sequence (including the Neal knee) and while I am sympathetic to Myt1's point, it doesn't matter how pissed off you get or how much you think the Penguins get away with in general, or even in this specific game where the Penguins were taking barely legal and even illegal shots all around the ice to try and make up for the fact that they played like a bunch of fucking 6 year olds in the ECF last year. None of that matters, there are lines you shouldn't cross.
Fuck the Penguins because fuck the Penguins, they think they should be handed the Stanley Cup year after year and when they aren't they amp up their dirty play. And Thornton tried to get Orpik to go (and was probably told by Claude to go do it) and Orpik punked out so you get limited choices.
But don't slewfoot a guy then punch him when he is lying the ice defenseless. You have to be better than that. I assume Thornton is going to get quite a break.
Fuck the Penguins because fuck the Penguins, they think they should be handed the Stanley Cup year after year and when they aren't they amp up their dirty play. And Thornton tried to get Orpik to go (and was probably told by Claude to go do it) and Orpik punked out so you get limited choices.
But don't slewfoot a guy then punch him when he is lying the ice defenseless. You have to be better than that. I assume Thornton is going to get quite a break.
Hockey is a brutal game played at high speed on a slippery surface where during play action collisions and hit opportunities spontaneously arise.
Some hard hits are clean, others have various degrees of being cheap shots.
The degree of whether a hit is clean or cheap is subjective. Everyone has an opinion.
What made Shawn Thonton's action far worse than anything else, hits or sticks to the face, that happened in last evening's game is this:
(1) Play was suspended at the time of the incident thus no player should suspect being hit.
(2) Thorny pre-meditatively --- not spontaneously (and that is decisively important) --- traveled a length of ice to attack Orpik from behind, pulling him down and pummeling him into unconsciousness before the victim knew what was happening and had any ability to defend himself.
Those are the objective facts. That is not hockey. That is assault and battery. It is The Knockout Game on Ice.
IMO, with Thorny's action he has forfeited his right to ever play organized hockey in North America again.
Moreover, local law enforcement agencies should open a criminal investigation of whether to charge him with criminal assault.
Bettman must take a firm stand as this incident is extremely bad for the NHL and must be dealt with definitively.
Some hard hits are clean, others have various degrees of being cheap shots.
The degree of whether a hit is clean or cheap is subjective. Everyone has an opinion.
What made Shawn Thonton's action far worse than anything else, hits or sticks to the face, that happened in last evening's game is this:
(1) Play was suspended at the time of the incident thus no player should suspect being hit.
(2) Thorny pre-meditatively --- not spontaneously (and that is decisively important) --- traveled a length of ice to attack Orpik from behind, pulling him down and pummeling him into unconsciousness before the victim knew what was happening and had any ability to defend himself.
Those are the objective facts. That is not hockey. That is assault and battery. It is The Knockout Game on Ice.
IMO, with Thorny's action he has forfeited his right to ever play organized hockey in North America again.
Moreover, local law enforcement agencies should open a criminal investigation of whether to charge him with criminal assault.
Bettman must take a firm stand as this incident is extremely bad for the NHL and must be dealt with definitively.
