Celtics are Pri(n)celess

[amfox1]

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI  6m6 minutes ago
The Celtics are negotiating a buyout with forward Tayshaun Prince, NBA sources tell http://SI.com . Nothing finalized yet.

 

[The Abandoned Diary]

https://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/555131149370929153
 
Drop a prince, a prodigal son, and bring back Donkey. Why??

 

[Koufax]

And what will Boston give up for this asset?  A second round pick?  Horrors!
 
In what sense is Prince a prodigal son?  Wouldn't that be more apt to describe Donkey?

 

[moondog80]

And what will Boston give up for this asset?  A second round pick?  Horrors!

Second round picks aren't worth much, but why would they bother? Gotta be more to it.

 

[amfox1]

I assume because the salary matches up with Austin Rivers and he's an expiring contract.  

 

[Koufax]

Well it can't be in exchange for Bass unless there is also a significant draft pick coming Boston's way.   Might Austin Rivers be heading to  Denver? 

 

[amfox1]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  17s17 seconds ago
Boston is sending Jameer Nelson to Denver for Nate Robinson, source tells Yahoo.

 

[zenter]

Second round picks aren't worth much, but why would they bother? Gotta be more to it.

 
Don't forget - C's also looking to move Nelson. 
 
EDIT: amfox confirmed my suspicion.

 

[Koufax]

I assume because the salary matches up with Austin Rivers and he's an expiring contract.  

 

 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  17s17 seconds ago
Boston is sending Jameer Nelson to Denver for Nate Robinson, source tells Yahoo.
 

 
Turning nothing into something.  Jameer was buried so deep I'd forgotten about him.

 

[amfox1]

Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo  5m5 minutes ago
Nate Robinson is expected to get a buyout with the Celtics, a source told Yahoo Sports.
 
Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick  8m8 minutes ago
With Nate Robinson going to Boston (h/t @SpearsNBAYahoo), I'm told he would love to shore up Clippers backup PG spot if waived by Celtics.
 
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  5m5 minutes ago
Clippers had discussed deal for Nate Robinson with Denver in recent weeks, could be candidate to sign assuming he's bought out in Boston.
 
Not sure what all this means for an Austin Rivers to LAC deal, if anything.

 

[the1andonly3003]

could we really not get something out Tayshaun, Nate Robinson etc?

 

[luckiestman]

Why in the world does Denver want to pay Jameer Nelson? What am I missing here? He has a player option, right?

 

[Blacken]

could we really not get something out Tayshaun, Nate Robinson etc?

Have you watched Prince play?
 
'Cause it's pretty dire.

 

[amfox1]

No idea, but since both players are reportedly being bought out, I don't understand why DEN would make this trade, since Nate makes less than Jameer.

 

[zenter]

could we really not get something out Tayshaun, Nate Robinson etc?

 
No. Both have are only signed for half a season.
 
They're both cheap enough to sign more or less unencumbered to any team this offseason. Teams want expirings and the C's can facilitate.

 

[zenter]

No idea, but since both players are reportedly being bought out, I don't understand why DEN would make this trade, since Nate makes less than Jameer.

 
Think longer. Denver has most of their players expiring after next season. Better to have it all happen at once and have lots of time to play with lining up 2017 and beyond.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The Celtics are starting to remind me of those shady mini-mall "loan" operations that buy off bad debts and squeeze people for 65 cents on the dollar

 

[Koufax]

Is it possible that buying out Nate so that he can go to the Clippers is the price of having the Clips give the Celtics a 2d round pick for Austin Rivers? 
 
My head is spinning, which is annoying since all of these players are worthless.
 
 
 
reason for edit:  Changed Denver to Clippers in first sentence

 

[the1andonly3003]

Is it possible that buying out Nate so that he can go to Denver is the price of having the Clips give the Celtics a 2d round pick for Austin Rivers? 
 
My head is spinning, which is annoying since all of these players are worthless.

This reminds me when Ainge traded Walker away, then traded back for him a few seasons later using The Glove for a playoff run and then re-signing The Glove after the trading deadline...

 

[Sutro]

Is it possible that buying out Nate so that he can go to the Clippers is the price of having the Clips give the Celtics a 2d round pick for Austin Rivers? 
 
My head is spinning, which is annoying since all of these players are worthless.
 
 
 
reason for edit:  Changed Denver to Clippers in first sentence

That's my thinking as well. The Clippers wanted something else along with Austin to give up a pick. So Danny's been beating the bushes. 

 

[Cellar-Door]

That's my thinking as well. The Clippers wanted something else along with Austin to give up a pick. So Danny's been beating the bushes. 

Nope that's a violation of the trade rules. This deal is about not having to buy out Jameer's option year.

 

[Sutro]

Nope that's a violation of the trade rules. This deal is about not having to buy out Jameer's option year.

Oh weird, so we can't trade Robinson to the Clippers after this deal? 

 

[Cellar-Door]

Oh weird, so we can't trade Robinson to the Clippers after this deal? 

Trading by himself yes. As a package no. Releasing as a part of an agreement no.

 

[luckiestman]

Nope that's a violation of the trade rules. This deal is about not having to buy out Jameer's option year.

That's my thinking but I don't get the upside for Denver

 

[Cellar-Door]

That's my thinking but I don't get the upside for Denver

He's a much better player and they're only 3 games out of the playoffs. Plus he's not a bad deal for next year for a playoff contender if he picks up the option.

 

[luckiestman]

He's a much better player and they're only 3 games out of the playoffs. Plus he's not a bad deal for next year for a playoff contender if he picks up the option.

Man, maybe. I think Shaw could hang with Nelson one on one.

 

[Mloaf71]

Is there a place where the remaining contracts/commitments are laid out?
 
Who is left on the team after this season? What's our cap room look like?  Hopefully Ainge has something up his sleeve that he is clearing cap space for and not over paying the next Chris Mihm!

 

[Cellar-Door]

Is there a place where the remaining contracts/commitments are laid out?
 
Who is left on the team after this season? What's our cap room look like?  Hopefully Ainge has something up his sleeve that he is clearing cap space for and not over paying the next Chris Mihm!

Hoopshype.com looks accurate as of yesterday except they have Nelson's option wrong.

 

[amfox1]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/boston.htm
 
Including Crowder (Qualifying offer), Pressley (Team option) and the eight signed players (Wallace, AB, Smart, Turner, KO, Sully, Zeller, Young), the Celtics have less than $35mm under contract for next year.  This year's cap is $63mm and next year's cap is likely to be north of $65mm.   That leaves approx. $30mm under the cap, less the amount needed to sign the two first-round picks (roughly $4.5mm combined, based on current draft positions and assuming no trades).  
 
The issue is actually attracting quality free agents to Boston.

 

[Koufax]

I suppose that will depend upon the development of the players we have.  If they come along quickly, they may be viewed as a sufficient set of complementary players.  Off the top of my head, the most likely players to be attractive as teammates are (in order of appeal)
 
1. Smart
2. Sullinger
3. Bradley
[3.  Bass, if he's still around which I doubt will happen]
4. Crowder
5.  Turner
6.  Zeller
 
After that, not much.  Young, maybe as a wild card.  Maybe if two free agents were wooed at the same time, they would view the whole picture (including the $$, the coach and the prospect of improvement will all the draft picks in the hopper) as sufficiently attractive.  But I feel like I am whistling past the graveyard on this. 

 

[amfox1]

Steve Bulpett ‏@SteveBHoop  2h2 hours ago
Celts will send Austin Rivers to Clippers, but have to wait to clear roster space for two expiring contracts.
 
Steve Bulpett ‏@SteveBHoop  1h1 hour ago
Celtics will also get a second-round pick whenever the Austin Rivers deal gets done.
 
The Celts currently have 15 players on the roster, so the trade likely will be made as soon as either the Prince or the Robinson buyout is complete. I assume that Udoh or Douglas-Roberts will be traded to Boston. Both have expiring contracts. Unfortunately Rivers for both Udoh and CDR doesn't work. Rivers for Udoh and Bullock would work, but Bullock has one more guaranteed year (@ $1.25mm).  
 
Edit: Udoh and CJ Wilcox (one more guaranteed year @ $1.16mm) also works.

 

[Smokey Joe]

I sometimes get the feeling that I'm watching someone dealing 3 card monte.

 

[The Mort Report]

As to the people stating all that cap space, who out there that will be a free agent this summer is considered quality?  You have a couple interesting restricted FA (Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard) but the only true FA that would even seem worth chasing are Marc Gasol, Greg Monroe and Aldrige.  I hope Danny doesnt just throw money at players because he has cap space

 

[CSteinhardt]

I disagree -- if you can't find quality, IMO it's correct to throw money at people and use the cap space as long as you are throwing money at people who can be traded once the requisite few months have elapsed.  That is to say, given the choice between keeping the cap space and signing somebody to a large deal, trading them for peanuts mid-season, and then having the cap space again anyway next offseason, you might as well use the  cap space and acquire more assets.  

 

[amfox1]

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick  34m34 minutes ago
The Celtics have competed the buyout of Nate Robinson, I'm told, after he was traded from Denver yesterday.

 

[wutang112878]

These moves make a lot of sense to me.  You take Prince which helps you match salary, Prince isnt helping this team, you buy out Prince and save money.  I do believe [according to CBAFAQ #67] because the buyout happens after Jan 10th they have to agree to drop the compensation protection but assuming they do the savings = Guaranteed Salary - Buyout Figure.  There is a double dip of savings for Nelson to Robinson, Nelson's salary was $2,732,000 compared to Robinson's $2,106,720 so the annual savings of ~$625K pro-rated over the 46 games remaining (56% of the season) which ends up being ~$350K  On top of that we have whatever savings we get in Robinson's buyout.
 
At the end of the day, and this is very dependent on the Prince & Robinson buyout figures, but I would imagine they save at least $1M  For a team that is going no where and for players that provide zero long-term value, I think it makes a ton of sense to save $1M thats significant savings.

 

[amfox1]

 
Steve Bulpett ‏@SteveBHoop  2h2 hours ago
Celts will send Austin Rivers to Clippers, but have to wait to clear roster space for two expiring contracts.
 
Steve Bulpett ‏@SteveBHoop  1h1 hour ago
Celtics will also get a second-round pick whenever the Austin Rivers deal gets done.
 
The Celts currently have 15 players on the roster, so the trade likely will be made as soon as either the Prince or the Robinson buyout is complete. I assume that Udoh or Douglas-Roberts will be traded to Boston. Both have expiring contracts. Unfortunately Rivers for both Udoh and CDR doesn't work. Rivers for Udoh and Bullock would work, but Bullock has one more guaranteed year (@ $1.25mm).  
 
Edit: Udoh and CJ Wilcox (one more guaranteed year @ $1.16mm) also works.
 

 
Rumor is that Phoenix may the 3rd team in the mix.  
 
One possibility is Rivers to LAC (from BOS), Bullock to PHX (from LAC), with BOS getting Udoh (from LAC, $981k expiring contract), Randolph (from PHX, $1.23mm expiring contract) and a 2nd rounder (from LAC).

 

[CreightonGubanich]

I'm not real high on Rivers - I think it remains to be seen whether or not he's an actual NBA player - but doesn't he have more upside than the Clippers' second round pick? Isn't he the type Ainge tends to want to hold on to and rehabilitate?

 

[amfox1]

I'm not real high on Rivers - I think it remains to be seen whether or not he's an actual NBA player - but doesn't he have more upside than the Clippers' second round pick? Isn't he the type Ainge tends to want to hold on to and rehabilitate?

 
Rivers is a free agent after this year and the Celtics already have a guard (read: Marcus Smart) to evaluate this year.  With the Celtics acquiring 2nd round picks like candy, I'd expect Trader Danny to use some of them to move around the draft board (a la Belichick) and/or to draft developmental players to stash in Europe.
 
Assuming we get LAC's 2015 2nd rounder, the Celtics would have picks 7, 21, 33, 37, 51 and 54 this year as of today.  

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

 
Rivers is a free agent after this year and the Celtics already have a guard (read: Marcus Smart) to evaluate this year.  With the Celtics acquiring 2nd round picks like candy, I'd expect Trader Danny to use some of them to move around the draft board (a la Belichick) and/or to draft developmental players to stash in Europe.
 
Assuming we get LAC's 2015 2nd rounder, the Celtics would have picks 7, 21, 33, 37, 51 and 54 this year as of today.  

That sounds good on paper, but . . .
 
In 2012, that would net you:
 
Harrison Barnes
Jared Sullinger hehe
Bernard James
Quincy Acy
Kris Joseph welp
Tornike Shengelia
 
In 2011, that would net you:
 
Bismack Biyombo
Nolan Smith
Kyle Singler
Trey Thomkins
Jon Diebler
Milan Macvan
 
 
Still not enough to turn a franchise around.  There's a point at which you need actual players, not picks.

 

[amfox1]

Ben Bolch ‏@latbbolch  51m51 minutes ago
Doc Rivers said Dahntay Jones should arrive tonight but I have been told Austin Rivers trade won't happen until Thursday.

 

[amfox1]

That sounds good on paper, but . . .
 
 
 
Still not enough to turn a franchise around.  There's a point at which you need actual players, not picks.

 
That's why you have to have faith in Trader Danny to execute the plan.  He's gathering assets and cap room to deploy at some future point.  If you don't have faith in Danny, then he shouldn't be the guy running the turnaround.  Personally, I think he's done a great job of positioning the Celtics for the next stage. 

 

[Scoops Bolling]

That sounds good on paper, but . . .
 
In 2012, that would net you:
 
Harrison Barnes
Jared Sullinger hehe
Bernard James
Quincy Acy
Kris Joseph welp
Tornike Shengelia
 
In 2011, that would net you:
 
Bismack Biyombo
Nolan Smith
Kyle Singler
Trey Thomkins
Jon Diebler
Milan Macvan
 
 
Still not enough to turn a franchise around.  There's a point at which you need actual players, not picks.

Or it could land you Drummond in 2012, or Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard or Chandler Parsons in 2011. Getting extra shots at landing those players is always a good thing given the degree to which the draft is a crapshoot.
 
Austin Rivers is arguably the worst player in the NBA. Any lottery ticket is more useful than him.

 

[dylanmarsh]

 
Rumor is that Phoenix may the 3rd team in the mix.  
 
One possibility is Rivers to LAC (from BOS), Bullock to PHX (from LAC), with BOS getting Udoh (from LAC, $981k expiring contract), Randolph (from PHX, $1.23mm expiring contract) and a 2nd rounder (from LAC).

 
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!  His girlfriend, http://instagram.com/summerraewwe , was the real value he brought to the Suns.  What the hell is Reggie fucking Bullock bringing to the table?

 

[TheDeuce222]

That sounds good on paper, but . . .
 
In 2012, that would net you:
 
Harrison Barnes
Jared Sullinger hehe
Bernard James
Quincy Acy
Kris Joseph welp
Tornike Shengelia
 
In 2011, that would net you:
 
Bismack Biyombo
Nolan Smith
Kyle Singler
Trey Thomkins
Jon Diebler
Milan Macvan
 
 
Still not enough to turn a franchise around.  There's a point at which you need actual players, not picks.

 
 
Or, in 2012 it could have netted you Andre Drummond (picked ninth), Sullinger (21st), Draymond Green (picked 35th), and Khris Middleton (picked 39th).  And in 2011, Kemba Walker (9th), Nikola Mirotic (23rd), Shelvin Mack (34th), and Chandler Parsons (38th).  All those guys, all of whom except for Sullinger are rotation players on good teams or better (Walker, Drummond, Parsons, Green) were picked within two spots of where the Celtics would currently be projected (the picks in the 50s, if made, are unlikely to account for anything other than a possible Euro-stash).  At the end of the day, it comes down to drafting well.  
 
Edit: what Scoops said.  

 

[Cellar-Door]

That sounds good on paper, but . . .
 
In 2012, that would net you:
 
Harrison Barnes
Jared Sullinger hehe
Bernard James
Quincy Acy
Kris Joseph welp
Tornike Shengelia
 
In 2011, that would net you:
 
Bismack Biyombo
Nolan Smith
Kyle Singler
Trey Thomkins
Jon Diebler
Milan Macvan
 
 
Still not enough to turn a franchise around.  There's a point at which you need actual players, not picks.

Or it could have netted
2012
Drummond Sullinger Draymond Green, Khris Middleton scrubs
2011
Thompson, Faried Chandler Parsons, Lavoy Allen, isaiah Thomas.

That 2011 class is a monster.

 

[nighthob]

As the Clippers have traded away their second round picks through the end of the century, I hope there's some cash coming Boston's way for Austin. (I think there's a chance they have one in 2016, because they traded a protected pick that year.)

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

Cherrypicking the perfect draft choice isn't really helping your case, guys.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Cherrypicking the perfect draft choice isn't really helping your case, guys.

It's the whole point. You argue that draft picks aren't a way to build. They are if you select well. History shows there are core players on contenders available at the picks we have, the difficulty is correctly identifying them.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Cherrypicking the perfect draft choice isn't really helping your case, guys.

 
Speaking of cherrypicking, why'd you choose 2011 and 2010 but not, say, 2009 when Stephen Curry was drafted 7th?