Challenge: The Gift that Keeps On Giving. . .

[Rovin Romine]

In the spirit of the Holidays and nothing much happening on the Hot Stove, the challenge is this; can we find the longest string of Red Sox players traded for Red Sox players traded for Red Sox players?

(The longest could mean total number of years, or it could mean the greatest number of "generations" of players coming into the .org. Perhaps we could also find the most valuable gift that keeps on giving, though I suspect Carl Pavano will be the obvious one there if we go by WAR. . .or perhaps not.)

The Rules:

1. Begin with a player traded by the Sox.
2. List the string of all the players that flow into the .org from that trade, in whole or in part.
3. Any official FA period, whether or not the player resigns with the Sox, "breaks" the string on that player.
4. List years and bWAR if you'd like, but although interesting, it's not strictly required.

An example:
Jose Canseco - signed as a FA, '95. Traded in '97 for:

John Wasdin (4 years, 2.3 bWAR for Sox). Traded with others in '00 for:​

Rolando Arroyo (3Y, 3 WAR). FA 2002.​

Mike Lansing (2Y, -1.1 WAR). FA 2001.​

Rich Croushore (1Y, 0 WAR). Traded in '01 for:​

Frank Graham - minor league player.​

​

5 players, 3 generations, 10 ML years (in very round/rough numbers), 4.2 WAR.

 

[Hatcher Steals Home]

The Rules:

1. Begin with a player traded by the Sox.
2. List the string of all the players that flow into the .org from that trade, in whole or in part.
3. Any official FA period, whether or not the player resigns with the Sox, "breaks" the string on that player.
4. List years and bWAR if you'd like, but although interesting, it's not strictly required.

The generations and years on this one could be different depending on if we include minor league service time:
1986: Ken Ryan signed as amateur free agent

1992: Ken Ryan (2.3 bWAR) debuts with Red Sox (generation 1) 5 years of majors, 11 years with Red Sox)
1997: Ken Ryan (with Glenn Murray and Lee Tinsley) traded for Heathcliff (2.5 bWAR) (and Rich Holifield, Larry Wemberly)
(Generation 2, 2 more years)
1999: Slocumb for Derek Lowe (19.5 bWAR) and Jason Varitek (13.6 bWAR through 2004)
Generation 3, both hit free agency in 2004, so 5 more years.


12 years from Ryans’s major league debut or 18 years from his free agency signing.
37.9 bWAR for the principals in the trades (and stopping Varitek’s bWAR at his 2004 free agency).

 

[Rovin Romine]

The generations and years on this one could be different depending on if we include minor league service time:
1986: Ken Ryan signed as amateur free agent

1992: Ken Ryan (2.3 bWAR) debuts with Red Sox (generation 1) 5 years of majors, 11 years with Red Sox)
1997: Ken Ryan (with Glenn Murray and Lee Tinsley) traded for Heathcliff (2.5 bWAR) (and Rich Holifield, Larry Wemberly)
(Generation 2, 2 more years)
1999: Slocumb for Derek Lowe (19.5 bWAR) and Jason Varitek (13.6 bWAR through 2004)
Generation 3, both hit free agency in 2004, so 5 more years.


12 years from Ryans’s major league debut or 18 years from his free agency signing.
37.9 bWAR for the principals in the trades (and stopping Varitek’s bWAR at his 2004 free agency).

Nice! I hope someone will find a very twisty one - the Duquette years seem promising for that.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Another way to look at the Pavano deal…

1995: Red Sox sign Mike Stanley
1996: Red Sox trade Mike Stanley to the Yankees for Jim Mecir and Tony Armas
1997: Red Sox trade Tony Armas and Carl Pavano to the Expos for Pedro Martinez
2005: Red Sox draft Clay Buchholz as compensation for Pedro Martinez
2016: Red Sox acquire Josh Tobias for Clay Buchholz

*Mecir was drafted by the Rays in the expansion draft
*Tobias never made it out of AA

 

[Amos Otis regrets]

Sort of fun to connect Tony C to Bill Buckner.

1962 - Red Sox sign Tony Congliaro as free agent.
1970 - Red Sox trade Tony C. (and Ray Jarvis and Jerry Moses) to the Angels for Ken Tatum, Jarvis Tatum, and Doug Griffin
1973 - Red Sox trade Ken Tatum (and Reggie Smith) to the Cardinals for Bernie Carbo and Rick Wise
1978 - Red Sox trade Rick Wise (and Ted Cox, Bo Diaz, and Mike Paxton) to Indians for Dennis Eckersley and Fred Kendall
1984 - Red Sox trade Dennis Eckersley to Cubs for Bill Buckner

 

[chrisfont9]

1970: Sox draft Rick Burleson in 1st round, a year after Burleson refused to sign with the Twins who took him in the 8th round. (7 years, 18.2 bWAR)
1980: Burleson and Butch Hobson traded to the Angels for Carney Lansford (2 yrs 6 bWAR), Mark Clear (5 yrs 2.2 bWAR) and Rick Miller (5 yrs, 0.8 bWAR in second stint with Sox).
1982: Lansford traded to Oakland for Tony Armas (4 yrs, 2.5 bWAR) and Jeff Newman (2 yrs, -0.6 bWAR)
1985: Clear traded to Milwaukee for Ed Romero (4 yrs, -3.6 bWAR)
... Easy Ed plays three poor seasons for Boston, but has a kid who goes on to run the Sox' scouting department and/or whatever his role is now as assistant GM.
2011: Ed jr signs Manuel Margot (minors only) and Rafael Devers (7yrs, 18.8 bWAR)
2015: Eddie the Younger signs Yoan Moncada (1 yr, 0.4 bWAR)
2016: Margot traded for Craig Kimbrel (3 yrs, 6.5 BWAR)
2016: Moncada traded for Chris Sale (6 yrs, 17.1 bWAR)
[this list isn't final yet.]

Updated: 12 players (generously using the Eddie's kid hook), 68.4 bWAR.

 

[Tito's Pullover]

Nice! I hope someone will find a very twisty one - the Duquette years seem promising for that.

Here's one that spans the entirety of the Duquette era:

June 1994: Mike Jacobs & Marc Lewis drafted by Boston in DD's first draft. (1 MiL year each).
July 1995: Jacobs & Lewis traded to Atlanta for Mike Stanton (1 year, 1.9 WAR).
July 1996: Stanton traded to Texas (with PTBNL Dwayne Hosey) for Mark Brandenburg (2 years, 0.5 WAR) & Kerry Lacy (2 years, -0.5 WAR).
November 1997: Lacy (presumably) retires. Brandenburg traded to Texas (with Bill Haselman and Aaron Sele) for Damon Buford (2 years, 2.1 WAR) and Jim Leyritz (1 year, 0.7 WAR).
June 1998: Leyritz traded to San Diego (with Ethan Faggett, who never made MLB) for Carlos Reyes (1 year, 0.7 WAR), Mandy Romero (1 year, 0.1 WAR), and Dario Veras (1 year, -0.3 WAR).
December 1998: Reyes released, Veras picked up off waivers by Kansas City.
July 1999: Romero traded to Mets for Kelly Ramos (3 MiL years).
December 1999: Buford traded to Cubs for Manny Alexander (1 year, -0.7 WAR).
November 2000: Alexander granted free agency.
After 2002 Season: Ramos ends up in Baltimore, I'm guessing as a minor league free agent.

Jacobs & Lewis -> Stanton -> Brandenburg (and Lacy) -> [Buford -> Alexander] & [Leyritz -> Romero (and 2 others) -> Ramos].

6 Generations (tracking the line from the '94 draftees to Ramos; Alexander and the Leyritz haul are "cousins")
12 players
5 minor league years, 12 major league years
4.5 total WAR (not counting Hosey/Haselman/Sele)

 

[Rovin Romine]

These are all excellent.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

The generations and years on this one could be different depending on if we include minor league service time:
1986: Ken Ryan signed as amateur free agent

1992: Ken Ryan (2.3 bWAR) debuts with Red Sox (generation 1) 5 years of majors, 11 years with Red Sox)
1997: Ken Ryan (with Glenn Murray and Lee Tinsley) traded for Heathcliff (2.5 bWAR) (and Rich Holifield, Larry Wemberly)
(Generation 2, 2 more years)
1999: Slocumb for Derek Lowe (19.5 bWAR) and Jason Varitek (13.6 bWAR through 2004)
Generation 3, both hit free agency in 2004, so 5 more years.


12 years from Ryans’s major league debut or 18 years from his free agency signing.
37.9 bWAR for the principals in the trades (and stopping Varitek’s bWAR at his 2004 free agency).

... 2005: Sox take Craig Hansen with the compensation pick for losing Lowe in free agency
2008: Sox trade Craig Hansen (and Brandon Moss and Andy LaRoche) to Pittsburgh for Jason Bay
2010: Sox draft, uh, Bryce Brentz with the compensation pick for losing Bay
2018: Sox trade Brentz to Pittsburgh for... cash considerations

 

[Tito's Pullover]

The Punto trade seemed ripe with possibility:

July 2000: Hanley Ramirez (1 year ML cup of coffee, -0.1 WAR) signs as an international FA. Traded November 2005 to Florida (with Anibal Sanchez & 2 others) for:

Josh Beckett (7 years, 22.3 WAR). Traded August 2012 to Dodgers (with Nick Punto & 2 others) for:​

Ivan De Jesus (1 year, -0.3 WAR) & Jerry Sands (did not play for Boston). Traded December 2012 to Pittsburgh (with Mark Melancon and 1 other) for:​

Joel Hanrahan (1 year, -0.5 WAR). Granted free agency October 2013.​

Brock Holt (7 years, 8.6 WAR). Granted free agency October 2019.​

James Loney (1 year, -0.3 WAR). Granted free agency October 2012.​

Allen Webster (2 years, -1.4 WAR) & Rubby De La Rosa (2 years, 0.3 WAR). Traded December 2014 to Arizona for:​

Wade Miley (1 year, 2.3 WAR). Traded December 2015 (with 1 other) to Seattle for:​

Carson Smith (3 years, 0.5 WAR). Granted free agency November 2018.​

Roenis Elias (2 years, -0.4 WAR). Traded April 2018 to Seattle for:​

Eric Filia (PTBNL, failed physical, returned to Seattle for cash).​

Mike Lowell (2 years, 8.2 WAR). Granted free agency October 2007.​

Guillermo Mota (did not play for Boston). Traded January 2006 to Cleveland (with 3 others) for:​

Josh Bard (1 year, 0.2 WAR). Traded May 2006 (with Cla Meredith) to San Diego for:​

Doug Mirabelli (1 year, -0.6 WAR plus 1 police escort). Granted free agency December 2006.​

Coco Crisp (3 years, 4.9 WAR). Traded November 2008 to Kansas City for:​

Ramon Ramirez (2 years, 2.1 WAR). Traded July 2010 to San Francisco for:​

Daniel Turpen (never made MLB, left Red Sox farm system after 2010).​

David Riske (1 year, 0.2 WAR). Traded June 2006 to White Sox for:​

Javier Lopez (4 years, 2.5 WAR). Granted free agency October 2009.​

Ramirez -> Beckett -> Webster -> Miley -> Elias -> Filia is the longest chain at 6 generations.
22 players, not including those added to trades that were not part of the chain (Crawford, Punto, Anibal Sanchez, etc.)
42 player-years (ML only, I didn't bother with all of the minor league time).
Full span is Hanley's signing (July 2000) to BROCKHOLT's free agency (October 2019), over 19 years.
48.5 total WAR.

 

[Amos Otis regrets]

Going way back, long before my memory begins.

August 1926: Red Sox sign Danny MacFayden (7 yrs, 13.9 WAR) as free agent. Traded in June 1932 to the Yankees for:

Ivy Andrews (2 yrs, 2.4 WAR). Traded Dec. 1933 to Browns (with Smead Jolley) for:​

Carl Reynolds (2 yrs, 2.3 WAR). Traded Dec. 1935 to the Senators (with Roy Johnson) for:​

Heinie Manush (1 yr, -0.9 WAR). Released Sept. 1936.​

Hank Johnson (3 yrs, 1.8 WAR). Traded Jan. 1936 to A's (with Al Niemiec) for:​

Doc Cramer (5 yrs, 2.7 WAR). Traded Dec. 1940 to Senators for:​

Gee Walker, who was traded to Cleveland later that same day (with Jim Bagby and Gene Desautels) for:​

Joe Dobson (9 yrs, 21.6 WAR). Traded Dec. 1950 to White Sox (with Dick Littlefield and Al Zarilla) for:​

Ray Scarborough (2 yrs, 0.4 WAR). Sold to the Yankees in August 1952.​

Bill Wight (2 yrs, -0.2 WAR). Traded June 1952 to the Tigers (with Johnny Pesky, Walt Dropo, Fred Hatfield, and Don Lenhardt) for:​

Hoot Evers (3 yrs, 0.1 WAR). May 1954 claimed by Giants on waivers.​

George Kell (3 yrs, 5.4 WAR). Traded May 1954 to White Sox for:​

Grady Hatton (3 yrs, 3.1 WAR). May 1956 sold to the Cardinals.​

Johnny Lipon (2 yrs, 0.6 WAR). Sept. 1953 sold to the Browns.​

Dizzy Trout (1 yr, 1.1 WAR). Released in March 1956​

Odell Hale (1 yr, -0.2 WAR). June 1941 claimed by Giants on waivers.​

Frankie Pytlak (3 yrs, -0.2 WAR). Released in August 1946​

Eric McNair( 3 yrs, -0.3 WAR). Traded Dec. 1938 to White Sox for:​

Boze Berger (1 yr, 0 WAR). Dec, 1939 sold to Dodgers.​

​

MacFayden -> Hank Johnson -> Cramer -> Dobson -> Wight -> Kell -> Hatton is the longest chain. 7 generations.
19 players.
53 player years.
Time span is 30 years (Danny MacFayden's signing in 1926 to Grady Hatton's sale in 1956).
53.6 total WAR.
Bonus points for great names like Smead Jolley, Heinie Manush, Hoot Evers, Dizzy Trout, and Boze Berger.
Two Hall of Famers hiding in there as well: Heinie Manush and George Kell,

 

[zenax]

Bonus points for[...]

Are there bonus points for seeing Hoot Evers hit a home run for the Red Sox? Aug 21, 1952. Unfortunately, the autographed ball I got was signed by the Indians (5 HoFers).

 

[Hank Scorpio]

The generations and years on this one could be different depending on if we include minor league service time:
1986: Ken Ryan signed as amateur free agent

1992: Ken Ryan (2.3 bWAR) debuts with Red Sox (generation 1) 5 years of majors, 11 years with Red Sox)
1997: Ken Ryan (with Glenn Murray and Lee Tinsley) traded for Heathcliff (2.5 bWAR) (and Rich Holifield, Larry Wemberly)
(Generation 2, 2 more years)
1999: Slocumb for Derek Lowe (19.5 bWAR) and Jason Varitek (13.6 bWAR through 2004)
Generation 3, both hit free agency in 2004, so 5 more years.


12 years from Ryans’s major league debut or 18 years from his free agency signing.
37.9 bWAR for the principals in the trades (and stopping Varitek’s bWAR at his 2004 free agency).

We can actually bring this one current...

1986: Red Sox sign Ken Ryan as an amateur free agent.
1996: Red Sox trade Ken Ryan to the Phillies for Heathcliff Slocumb.
1997: Red Sox acquire Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe from the Mariners for Heathcliff Slocumb.
2005: Derek Lowe leaves via free agency, and the Red Sox receive two compensation picks, drafting Michael Bowden and Craig Hansen.
--2012: Michael Bowden is traded in 2012 for Marlon Byrd, who is released two months later.
2008: Craig Hansen is traded away for Jason Bay.
2010: Jason Bay leaves via free agency, and the Red Sox receive two more compensation picks, drafting Anthony Ranaudo and Brandon Workman.
--2015: Anthony Ranaudo is traded for Robbie Ross, who leaves via free agency in 2017.
2020: Brandon Workman is traded for Nick Pivetta and Connor Seabold.
--2023: Connor Seabold is traded to the Rockies for a PTBNL... can't find if they trade was ever finalized.

So they chain of events that brought Nick Pivetta to the Red Sox started in 1986 - seven years before Pivetta was born.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

... 2005: Sox take Craig Hansen with the compensation pick for losing Lowe in free agency
2008: Sox trade Craig Hansen (and Brandon Moss and Andy LaRoche) to Pittsburgh for Jason Bay
2010: Sox draft, uh, Bryce Brentz with the compensation pick for losing Bay
2018: Sox trade Brentz to Pittsburgh for... cash considerations

According to this, Brentz was compensation for Billy Wagner.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

One more that lives on...

1994: Red Sox draft Nomar Garciaparra
2004: Red Sox trade Nomar Garciaparra for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz.
--Mientkiewicz was traded away for some guy who never made it out of the minors.
2005: After Orlando Cabrera signed elsewhere, the Red Sox got two compensation picks and used them to sign Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie.
2011: Jed Lowrie was traded for Mark Melancon.
2012: Mark Melancon was traded for Joel Hanrahan and Brock Holt.
2014: Jacoby Ellsbury signs with the Yankees, and the Red Sox get a compensation pick. They use this pick to draft Michael Kopech.
2016: Michael Kopech is traded for Chris Sale.

**It would be nice if Chris Sale has such a good 2023, that we're forced to QO him, he declines, and we draft a stud prospect with the compensation pick. Let's keep this one going another 30 years!

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

According to this, Brentz was compensation for Billy Wagner.

Wikipedia says Kolbrin Vitek was the comp for Wagner. Guess we’ll never know!

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

One more that lives on...

1994: Red Sox draft Nomar Garciaparra
2004: Red Sox trade Nomar Garciaparra for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz.
--Mientkiewicz was traded away for some guy who never made it out of the minors.
2005: After Orlando Cabrera signed elsewhere, the Red Sox got two compensation picks and used them to sign Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie.
2011: Jed Lowrie was traded for Mark Melancon.
2012: Mark Melancon was traded for Joel Hanrahan and Brock Holt.
2014: Jacoby Ellsbury signs with the Yankees, and the Red Sox get a compensation pick. They use this pick to draft Michael Kopech.
2016: Michael Kopech is traded for Chris Sale.

**It would be nice if Chris Sale has such a good 2023, that we're forced to QO him, he declines, and we draft a stud prospect with the compensation pick. Let's keep this one going another 30 years!

If he has a great 23, the team will probably pick up his $20M option for 24.

 

[brandonchristensen]

One more that lives on...

1994: Red Sox draft Nomar Garciaparra
2004: Red Sox trade Nomar Garciaparra for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz.
--Mientkiewicz was traded away for some guy who never made it out of the minors.
2005: After Orlando Cabrera signed elsewhere, the Red Sox got two compensation picks and used them to sign Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie.
2011: Jed Lowrie was traded for Mark Melancon.
2012: Mark Melancon was traded for Joel Hanrahan and Brock Holt.
2014: Jacoby Ellsbury signs with the Yankees, and the Red Sox get a compensation pick. They use this pick to draft Michael Kopech.
2016: Michael Kopech is traded for Chris Sale.

**It would be nice if Chris Sale has such a good 2023, that we're forced to QO him, he declines, and we draft a stud prospect with the compensation pick. Let's keep this one going another 30 years!

Damn great gets for Cabrera leaving. That’s wild.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

One more that lives on...

1994: Red Sox draft Nomar Garciaparra
2004: Red Sox trade Nomar Garciaparra for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz.
--Mientkiewicz was traded away for some guy who never made it out of the minors.
2005: After Orlando Cabrera signed elsewhere, the Red Sox got two compensation picks and used them to sign Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie.
2011: Jed Lowrie was traded for Mark Melancon.
2012: Mark Melancon was traded for Joel Hanrahan and Brock Holt.
2014: Jacoby Ellsbury signs with the Yankees, and the Red Sox get a compensation pick. They use this pick to draft Michael Kopech.
2016: Michael Kopech is traded for Chris Sale.

**It would be nice if Chris Sale has such a good 2023, that we're forced to QO him, he declines, and we draft a stud prospect with the compensation pick. Let's keep this one going another 30 years!

…and the beat goes on.

2023: Chris Sale traded to Atlanta for Vaughn Grissom.

The Nomar draft selection lives on!