Collins traded to Cleveland per Schefter
- Thread starter Nite Vizhun UV
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I literally started a thread earlier today asking if Collins was still hurt maybe or why he played so little in the last 2 games (and got trucked on that TD yesterday). I decided it wasn't thread-worthy and deleted it and instead tweeted at the ITP guys to ask them to look into what is going on with Collins. So ITP guys, nevermind!
Reaction: I am so confused. Obviously, with Collins expiring he's not worth a ton on the trading block since it's only 1/2 a season. I'm assuming the Browns are trading with the hope of extending or franchising him. But the Patriots got very little return above holding onto him and letting him walk...and one would certainly think that the Pats saw a lot of value in that half year of Collins...particularly with the way the pass rush has been.
Wild guess: I wonder if there's an injury we don't know about -- could be worth it for the Browns to IR him and then franchise him?
Next steps: Who fills in? Seems like Roberts on early downs and Mingo on passing downs? How is that better than keeping Collins?
Edit: And of course, in BB I trust. Still, massive head scratcher.
Wild guess: I wonder if there's an injury we don't know about -- could be worth it for the Browns to IR him and then franchise him?
Next steps: Who fills in? Seems like Roberts on early downs and Mingo on passing downs? How is that better than keeping Collins?
Edit: And of course, in BB I trust. Still, massive head scratcher.
I guess, but playing that game with a player the Patriots are giving up on 1/2-way through a Championship-callibre season with the risk of paying him ~$14M then seeing him walk isn't the way to build a franchise. Then again, this is the Browns I'm talking about, so maybe I just answered my own question.
I remember being at the AFCCG last year and watching Collins get burned twice for TD's and thinking to myself, "Have we overrated the guy because of a few good games?"
The LB corp has a ton of depth, maybe more than any other team in the league.
What the fuck is this?? Collins for a 3rd round pick is a complete disaster. They just massively weakened the strongest part of the defense and have who to replace? Kyle Van Noy?
But wouldn't the Pats have gotten a compensatory 3rd by letting him walk? They essentially traded him for moving the pick up from 2018 to 2017. I'm not a huge fan of the trade, but I hate the return.
That may be true and I guess the Pats finally lost their patience. But knowing how quickly injuries can pile up it seems potentially reckless to trade a guy with his kind of talent in-season for this kind of return.
I'm reflexively IBWT so I'm far from panicked. Just shocked.
Collins is very inconsistent, but this just seems like a terrible trade to me. You lose him for 8 games + playoffs over what, a 20-30 spots jump in the third round of next year's draft? Brady is 39, the team is healthy and they have a real shot this season. I don't think you have to be a slave for "value" all the time, this is just making your defense worse for very little return.
Now, if they needed this pick right now to swing a bigger trade (say, for Haden or Thomas) I may change my mind.
Now, if they needed this pick right now to swing a bigger trade (say, for Haden or Thomas) I may change my mind.
Mingo, Van Noy and Elandon Roberts. I hate this trade too but man Collins disappears a ton. If you are Patriots are you paying 50 million guaranteed to someone that is invisible as much as Collins has been?
Browns gonna Browns.
They are basically an alien life-form at this point; their actions incomprehensible to humans. They probably want Collins in order to experiment on or eat his brain or something.
Ben Volin @BenVolin 1m1 minute ago
I'm told Collins turned down $11m per year from the Patriots. Franchise Tag should be around $15m this spring
11 million per year is pretty fair value on a player that is invisible at times.
I'm told Collins turned down $11m per year from the Patriots. Franchise Tag should be around $15m this spring
11 million per year is pretty fair value on a player that is invisible at times.
Lol if people think Haden has been playing like an elite corner for 2+ years they haven't been paying attention. They clearly don't think he's as valuable as we do, and they think Van Noy and Roberts can help fill in. Still, weird that they didn't let him just play out the year, which makes me think there is either another shoe to drop or there was a problem with something that's not related to his play. FWIW I don't think this materially changes their Super Bowl chances.
My guess is that Collins made it clear he wasn't re-signing and BB basically timed it to trade him before the bye so he could make the needed adjustments.
Cut to me in January wondering again how we didn't win in a year we were by far the best team halfway through.
What's the depth behind Hightower and Roberts if one of them gets injured? Sure Roberts has played well but you're left with Van Noy and 2 hybrid guys McLellin and Ninkovich. Very disappointed in this deal.
It's a 30+ pick jump and also a year early from 2018 to 2017
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 36s37 seconds ago
With Jamie Collins contract coming up, he was at one point asking for what one league source described as “Von Miller money." Von: 6-$114.5M
With Jamie Collins contract coming up, he was at one point asking for what one league source described as “Von Miller money." Von: 6-$114.5M
I think the inability to protect Brady is going to be a bigger issue than linebacker depth if they don't win the Super Bowl. Or maybe I have seen the 2007, 2011 Super Bowls and last year's AFC championship too many times.
It's been widely reported that it will be for the Browns 3rd round comp pick they will get for losing Alex Mack.
This is the reason he is gone. Von Miller is a game changer. Collins while can be really good doesn't show up enough to warrant that type of money.
Maybe it will be because our linebacker can't cover an over the hill Tight End in the biggest game of the year.
It's actually a pretty decent move for the Browns if they like Collins. They have a half season to figure out if they want the guy long term and they can easily franchise him if they want so that helps them with the negotiating leverage. Worst case is they decide to move on from Collins and they get a 2018 third or fourth round comp pick instead of a 2017 third.
So you're saying he's going to lose us the AFC Championship again like he did last year?
Schefter is saying it's a compensatory pick the Browns are sending our way. If that's true, then it's just a matter of getting that third rounder a year early. Still think that's terrible value.
On the plus side, Collins is going to have significantly more chances to block extra points now.
Not a fan of the team clearly leaking shit to the media, but if true that's pretty ridiculous. I'm in the "Miller is way overpaid" camp, and I say that fully believing he is the best LB in football, but $100m+ for LBs is a really good way to destroy your cap down the road.
The pick doesn't exist yet though, how can they trade for something that doesn't exist?
Sure let him go at the end of the season for a comp pick if that's what he wants. But, the question still stands of why he had to be traded now? I don't get it. When he's right, he's a game changer. Let him walk at the end of the year but still get as much as you can out of him this year. Have your cake and eat it too.
This was my line of thinking, too. I'm far from an expert, but the many video clips of Belichick stressing the "Do Your Job" mantra keeps coming to mind. Perhaps the videos showed that Collins had been taking too many liberties, not making enough "plays" when taking those liberties and may become a liability to the system. Again, pure speculation, but given that they were far apart in contract talks, maybe Collins was taking more risks as a means of increasing the "playmaker" reputation and increasing his value on the open market. Again, I haven't watched all the tapes, but is it possible that it reached a tipping point where JC's improving could potentially cost the team more than a less talented player who would follow the play call?
I'm also shocked by the return, but I've got to imagine that the Pats had been shopping around and that this was the best they could do.
If it is a compensatory pick, I can only conclude that they think losing Collins does not hurt their chances this year.
Aren't compensatory picks set a year in advance? If the Pats lose Collins, the compensatory pick would come in 2018, so a 2017 compensatory pick has already been awarded to the Browns based on someone they lost in the last offseason, no? Or does the NFL only determine the round in which the pick will take place prior to the following draft?
Hightower, Mingo, Roberts, Van Noy...yea I'm okay with that. I'm sure at least one of them will get hurt though, as their involved in collisions on most plays they're on the field. Depth is definitely sketchy at this point, though.
On the other hand, Collins is a playmaker but off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of plays where he was specifically attacked in coverage (AFCCG last year, wheel route in the 2014 AFCCG, wheel route in the Super Bowl, against the Bears in 2014 with Forte, etc). He's a freak, and a very good tackler, but I'm guessing he freelanced too much for their liking and wasn't producing what they expected him to on the field. That's about as much rationalization as you can make for this one based on on field stuff, though.
On the other hand, Collins is a playmaker but off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of plays where he was specifically attacked in coverage (AFCCG last year, wheel route in the 2014 AFCCG, wheel route in the Super Bowl, against the Bears in 2014 with Forte, etc). He's a freak, and a very good tackler, but I'm guessing he freelanced too much for their liking and wasn't producing what they expected him to on the field. That's about as much rationalization as you can make for this one based on on field stuff, though.
The contract talk is just a distraction. That has nothing to do with why they didn't keep him for the remainder of 2016 when they could let him walk for the same compensation they are getting in this deal.
The answer, as it often is, is "Do Your Job"
The answer, as it often is, is "Do Your Job"
