Coming out of the break

Lose Remerswaal · Jul 17, 2015

The Gray Eagle said:
Updates on Swihart and Nava:
"Catcher Blake Swihart continued his injury rehabilitation assignment with Double A Portland on Thursday, going 2 for 3 with a double as the DH. He has played three minor league games since going on the disabled list with a sprained foot . . . Daniel Nava played his eighth rehab game for Pawtucket, starting at first base, homering, and driving in four runs in a 9-7 loss at Durham. Farrell said there is no timetable for his return"

Personally I am surprised that Nava isn't coming up for this trip. He's been playing for over a week, and he could platoon at first with Napoli for the next couple weeks to see if either can help us. I think we should get a look at both of them as platooners there for scouting purposes to decide what to do with them before the deadline.

My guess is if they activate Pedroia they can send Marrero back down and activate Nava, but until Dustin is back they need the middle infield backup that Marrero provides

Red(s)HawksFan · Jul 17, 2015

Lose Remerswaal said:
My guess is if they activate Pedroia they can send Marrero back down and activate Nava, but until Dustin is back they need the middle infield backup that Marrero provides

Keep in mind the active roster has an empty slot due to sending Barnes down on Sunday, so Pedroia could be activated tonight without another corresponding move. And with the fifth starter apparently not on the roster yet, the bullpen is "full" with at least seven arms. Keeping Marrero around for the weekend might be worth doing since Pedroia is being activated without a rehab assignment. If the worst happens and he's not ready or re-injures himself, they're still covered. If not, they can option Marrero to bring up that fifth starter on Tuesday.

phenweigh · Jul 17, 2015

Where is our All-Star going to get the majority of his playing time when Pedroia returns? His pre-Pedroia DL majority playing time was in right field, but that seems ably filled now with a Victorino/de Aza platoon. My guess is first base against right-handed starters, which relegates Napoli to a minor role, and Nava to essentially no role when he returns.

Plympton91 · Jul 17, 2015

phenweigh said:
Where is our All-Star going to get the majority of his playing time when Pedroia returns? His pre-Pedroia DL majority playing time was in right field, but that seems ably filled now with a Victorino/de Aza platoon. My guess is first base against right-handed starters, which relegates Napoli to a minor role, and Nava to essentially no role when he returns.

Is there a roster spot for Nava to take when they go to 12 pitchers?

They need one bench spot for the Victorino/De Aza platoon, one for the Holt/Napoli platoon, one for Leon, and ... Is that one free for Nava? But, even if there's a roster spot, there's no role except to play 1B against a RH when Holt is playing somewhere else. He's shown that he doesn't do well when he's not playing semi-regularly, so my guess is they might have him finish his rehab and then DFA him to see if they can get a lottery ticket or a AAAA player with options from a team that needs a platoon OF/1B. The Cardinals might fit, or the Angels. The Nats are beat up pretty good.

Yelling At Clouds · Jul 17, 2015

Plympton91 said:
Is there a roster spot for Nava to take when they go to 12 pitchers?

They need one bench spot for the Victorino/De Aza platoon, one for the Holt/Napoli platoon, one for Leon, and ... Is that one free for Nava? But, even if there's a roster spot, there's no role except to play 1B against a RH when Holt is playing somewhere else. He's shown that he doesn't do well when he's not playing semi-regularly, so my guess is they might have him finish his rehab and then DFA him to see if they can get a lottery ticket or a AAAA player with options from a team that needs a platoon OF/1B. The Cardinals might fit, or the Angels. The Nats are beat up pretty good.

If the plan is indeed to use Holt at 1B more frequently, then don't you need an actual backup infielder on the bench? Maybe Marrero sticks around while longer - I know it's not ideal and he should be (altogether now) playing every day, but I'm not sure there's anyone else who could fill that role on the 40-man. Cecchini, I guess, although he's only just now playing better in Pawtucket.

grimshaw · Jul 17, 2015

I think Nava is stuck in AAA until the timeframe on his rehab assignment is officially up. He's basically just injury insurance between now and that time. I really doubt they create room for him since he was never hurt or appreciably better than the 25th guy in the first place.

My guess is a DFA a few days before the trade deadline to muddy the waters and try and slip him through waivers or add him as a piece of bubblegum to a pack of baseball cards in a trade.

Same deal with Leon, though I think that will happen in the next few days to get Swihart back up.

I think Holt will go back to being a super sub.
Something like 3 games at first, a game at 3B, a game in LF. Maybe he's 5 games a week until someone gets banged up.

Plympton91 · Jul 17, 2015

grimshaw said:
I think Nava ... was never hurt

As detailed in yesterday's minor league thread, yes, he was really hurt.

Rasputin · Jul 17, 2015

Anyone think it's weird that they've announced that some internal starter will be getting a start, they just aren't sure which one or which day?

JakeRae · Jul 17, 2015

Danny_Darwin said:
If the plan is indeed to use Holt at 1B more frequently, then don't you need an actual backup infielder on the bench? Maybe Marrero sticks around while longer - I know it's not ideal and he should be (altogether now) playing every day, but I'm not sure there's anyone else who could fill that role on the 40-man. Cecchini, I guess, although he's only just now playing better in Pawtucket.

No. You have Holt. If someone gets hurt when he is playing first, Napoli can come in and Holt can move. If someone needs a day off, Napoli can play first. Holt's ability to play everywhere doesn't disappear when he starts the game at a particular position.

E5 Yaz · Jul 17, 2015

Rasputin said:
Anyone think it's weird that they've announced that some internal starter will be getting a start, they just aren't sure which one or which day?

Edes seems to think it will be Wright

Rasputin · Jul 17, 2015

E5 Yaz said:
Edes seems to think it will be Wright

I'd be cool with that, but why wait to announce it? Maybe he'll be in the bullpen until the day before the game or something.

I dunno, is just weird.

bellowthecat · Jul 17, 2015

Rasputin said:
I'd be cool with that, but why wait to announce it? Maybe he'll be in the bullpen until the day before the game or something.

I dunno, is just weird.

I'll venture a guess and say that it's just game theory. Why would tell the Angels who they are going to face before they have to? Make the Angels hitters prepare for Wright, Kelly, Masterson, or whoever else might be in line for the start (Owens? I doubt it). I don't know how much of an edge that really gives the pitcher that goes that day, but it might be worth something. Seems like something Belichick would do.

And I'm not too worried about finding Holt playing time. They'll find ways to get him in there.

phenweigh · Jul 17, 2015

If it's Wright, shouldn't he start the Houston series instead of end the LAAA series to give the team the day after the knuckler bump?

Rasputin · Jul 17, 2015

bellowthecat said:
I'll venture a guess and say that it's just game theory. Why would tell the Angels who they are going to face before they have to? Make the Angels hitters prepare for Wright, Kelly, Masterson, or whoever else might be in line for the start (Owens? I doubt it). I don't know how much of an edge that really gives the pitcher that goes that day, but it might be worth something. Seems like something Belichick would do.

And I'm not too worried about finding Holt playing time. They'll find ways to get him in there.

But they pretty much never do that. Even when a minor league guy is getting called up to make a single start, they routinely announce it ahead of time.

It makes me wonder if there is someone who needs to be notified before it's officially announced, like they want to make sure Kelly is back from wherever he went over the break to tell him he's not getting the start.

I don't think there are any devious machinations going on or anything, I just think it's odd.

judyb · Jul 17, 2015

If it's Wright, shouldn't he start the Houston series instead of end the LAAA series to give the team the day after the knuckler bump?

This is interesting, has Wright pitched indoors since his disastrous first major league start in Houston? Have the Red Sox managed to avoid using him indoors all this time without us noticing since?

Looks like he was optioned a few days before their recent trip to Tampa and Toronto, but was active for one game in Toronto and a series in Seattle in May, but only pitched in a game the roof was open.

phenweigh · Jul 17, 2015

judyb said:
This is interesting, has Wright pitched indoors since his disastrous first major league start in Houston? Have the Red Sox managed to avoid using him indoors all this time without us noticing since?

Looks like he was optioned a few days before their recent trip to Tampa and Toronto, but was active for one game in Toronto and a series in Seattle in May, but only pitched in a game the roof was open.

I'd hate to assign Wright's first major league start being a disaster to pitching in a dome. My recollection was that Wakefield enjoyed dome success and baseball reference confirms by memory ... Tim had a tOPS+ of 92 pitching in a dome. Now Wright isn't Wake, and may have a different profile, but at least that little bit of research dispels the idea that a dome is generally inhospitable to knuckleballers.

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Jul 18, 2015

Right now they have the 8th worst record in the league... would tanking again (or just playing out as their team is currently constructed) be the worst thing? I don't know how the potential draft picks for next year look, but would selling off a Miley and tanking to guarantee another protected pick be worth it?
3 out of 4 years in last place is starting to suck, but I'd rather than protected pick then playing .500 and missing the playoffs by a few games and losing a good draft pick after we sign a Cueto (or Price, etc...)

wilked · Jul 18, 2015

Trotsky said:
Right now they have the 8th worst record in the league... would tanking again (or just playing out as their team is currently constructed) be the worst thing? I don't know how the potential draft picks for next year look, but would selling off a Miley and tanking to guarantee another protected pick be worth it?
3 out of 4 years in last place is starting to suck, but I'd rather than protected pick then playing .500 and missing the playoffs by a few games and losing a good draft pick after we sign a Cueto (or Price, etc...)

there's a lot more to the calculus than records and draft picks. The Sox need to sell tickets / air time / generate revenue. Without having reviewed the financial reports, my gut says this will be a focus for them, and maintaining a competitive team has been shown to be a huge part of this

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · Jul 18, 2015

Trotsky said:
Right now they have the 8th worst record in the league... would tanking again (or just playing out as their team is currently constructed) be the worst thing? I don't know how the potential draft picks for next year look, but would selling off a Miley and tanking to guarantee another protected pick be worth it?
3 out of 4 years in last place is starting to suck, but I'd rather than protected pick then playing .500 and missing the playoffs by a few games and losing a good draft pick after we sign a Cueto (or Price, etc...)

Miley is exactly the type of guy they should NOT be selling. He's a solid starter signed to an affordable contract for two more years, plus an option year.
Selling off key pieces of the future--whether as part of a tank or part of a playoff push--makes no sense.

Rasputin · Jul 18, 2015

There aren't a lot of pieces this team can reasonably sell off.

Players that are in the last year's of their deals aren't doing much. We could get something for Koji and Hanigan, but Napoli and Masterson look like they're toast.

We could tell Buchholz his injury is going to take the rest of the season and bring up Owens for his spot, going with three rookies, Porcello and Miley the rest of the way and we'd probably get more losses.

AB in DC · Jul 18, 2015

Victorino will get a lot of time to audition, though. If he looks decent, he could be an August waiver deal for a team needing OF depth.

ElcaballitoMVP · Jul 18, 2015

Rasputin said:
There aren't a lot of pieces this team can reasonably sell off.

Players that are in the last year's of their deals aren't doing much. We could get something for Koji and Hanigan, but Napoli and Masterson look like they're toast.

We could tell Buchholz his injury is going to take the rest of the season and bring up Owens for his spot, going with three rookies, Porcello and Miley the rest of the way and we'd probably get more losses.

I agree. And trading Koji becomes more difficult for a couple of reasons. One, he's on a reasonable contract for next season. This leaves a hole they'd need to fill at the back of the bullpen. They have the resources to do that, but how many more years/dollars/prospects do they want to use to fill a hole they don't have? Unless you're getting a knockout prospect, I'd just prefer to keep Koji.

That brings me to issue number two. Which is that this could be a potentially saturated market for late inning relievers. The teams below the Sox in the standing all have options of varying price and value (PHI- Paps, MIA- Cishek and Dunn, MIL- KRod and Broxton, COL- Axford and B. Logan, OAK- Clippard, CIN- Chapman, SEA- Rodney, SD- Kimbrel and Benoit). If you're going to give up that knockout prospect, wouldn't you prefer Kimbrel or Chapman? Or give up a lesser package/prospect for Clippard or KRod?

FanSinceBoggs · Jul 18, 2015

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Miley is exactly the type of guy they should NOT be selling. He's a solid starter signed to an affordable contract for two more years, plus an option year.
Selling off key pieces of the future--whether as part of a tank or part of a playoff push--makes no sense.

Miley is a middling starter pitcher, though, and I doubt there is much upside beyond that. If you believe in Brian Johnson, you might conclude that he can easily replace Miley's middling production in 2016. I'm not saying the Red Sox should give Miley away for free, but I don't see the harm in shopping a middling starting pitcher to see if a desperate team will overpay. If a desperate team will surrender a top prospect for Miley, the Red Sox shouldn't turn down that kind of trade. The upside is too great, and Miley is what he is.

E5 Yaz · Jul 18, 2015

Trotsky said:
Right now they have the 8th worst record in the league...

Actually they have the third worst record in the league. Only Seattle and Oakland are worse

FanSinceBoggs · Jul 18, 2015

Trotsky said:
but would selling off a Miley and tanking to guarantee another protected pick be worth it?

A top 5 pick will be pretty valuable next year, as the draft is expected to include a few high quality college arms, just what the Red Sox need.

nvalvo · Jul 18, 2015

FanSinceBoggs said:
Miley is a middling starter pitcher, though, and I doubt there is much upside beyond that. If you believe in Brian Johnson, you might conclude that he can easily replace Miley's middling production in 2016. I'm not saying the Red Sox should give Miley away for free, but I don't see the harm in shopping a middling starting pitcher to see if a desperate team will overpay. If a desperate team will surrender a top prospect for Miley, the Red Sox shouldn't turn down that kind of trade. The upside is too great, and Miley is what he is.

I don't know how you can say that. He has already thrown a 194 IP season with a FIP in the low 3s.

It's his best season by a fair margin, but it makes it hard for me to accept this idea that he's without upside.

nvalvo · Jul 18, 2015

FanSinceBoggs said:
A top 5 pick will be pretty valuable next year, as the draft is expected to include a few high quality college arms, just what the Red Sox need.

But wasn't *this year's* draft expected to include a few high quality college arms, before they all got hurt?

Byrdbrain · Jul 18, 2015

nvalvo said:
I don't know how you can say that. He has already thrown a 194 IP season with a FIP in the low 3s.

It's his best season by a fair margin, but it makes it hard for me to accept this idea that he's without upside.

You are talking to the same guy who pretty much said Peavey was useless in 2013, keep that in mind.

Edit:League average pitching is valuable and Johnson is no sure thing to provide it while Miley is(as much as any pitcher can be a sure thing for anything).

Red(s)HawksFan · Jul 18, 2015

FanSinceBoggs said:
Miley is a middling starter pitcher, though, and I doubt there is much upside beyond that. If you believe in Brian Johnson, you might conclude that he can easily replace Miley's middling production in 2016. I'm not saying the Red Sox should give Miley away for free, but I don't see the harm in shopping a middling starting pitcher to see if a desperate team will overpay. If a desperate team will surrender a top prospect for Miley, the Red Sox shouldn't turn down that kind of trade. The upside is too great, and Miley is what he is.

No team is going to come running to the Red Sox desperate enough to acquire Wade Miley that they'll bowl them over with a "can't say no" offer.

The guys who warrant those kinds of offers don't get categorized as "middling" by anyone.

Also, last I checked, the Sox still need multiple starting pitchers next year. If they believe in Brian Johnson, they're a better team with he and Miley in the rotation next year. At least when they don't know who else they can add to the rotation.

Rasputin · Jul 18, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
No team is going to come running to the Red Sox desperate enough to acquire Wade Miley that they'll bowl them over with a "can't say no" offer.

The guys who warrant those kinds of offers don't get categorized as "middling" by anyone.

Also, last I checked, the Sox still need multiple starting pitchers next year. If they believe in Brian Johnson, they're a better team with he and Miley in the rotation next year. At least when they don't know who else they can add to the rotation.

Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley, (Johnson, Owens, Kelly)

I don't see how the Sox need multiple starting pitchers. I mean, an ace would be nice, but we're pretty much full up on halfways decent guys.

Yelling At Clouds · Jul 18, 2015

Rasputin said:
Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley, (Johnson, Owens, Kelly)

I don't see how the Sox need multiple starting pitchers. I mean, an ace would be nice, but we're pretty much full up on halfways decent guys.

I would agree, but I'm not sure anyone can count on a full healthy season from Buchholz. I mean, there's risk inherent with any starting pitcher, sure, but elbow issues are always troubling.

Red(s)HawksFan · Jul 18, 2015

Rasputin said:
Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley, (Johnson, Owens, Kelly)

I don't see how the Sox need multiple starting pitchers. I mean, an ace would be nice, but we're pretty much full up on halfways decent guys.

I only meant that replacing Miley with Johnson (as was suggested) still potentially leaves a hole in the rotation next year, and until that ace or another "middling" starter is acquired, they really shouldnt be shopping a proven, signed and reasonably paid commodity like Miley.

Rough Carrigan · Jul 18, 2015

AB in DC said:
Victorino will get a lot of time to audition, though. If he looks decent, he could be an August waiver deal for a team needing OF depth.

Maybe we could sell off DeAza before he returns to being . . . DeAza. There's a painful side when your team picks up a mediocre fielding, mediocre hitting guy and he has an initial hot streak for your team.

All your decision makers want to keep him on the team and in the lineup. His fluke success is a compliment to . . . THEM. They were so wise as to pick him up. They saw something that less sagely managers and GM's didn't see. Maybe DeAza will keep it up. But it's *extremely* unlikely. What's pretty likely is that we all endure him not doing jack shit for a month or two while our decision makers luxuriate in the perceived glow of their small, ephemeral triumph in picking up the thoroughly mediocre, not part of the future Alejandro DeAza. Meanwhile, Jackie Bradley will continue to be the best defender the organization has and hits for a nice .860 OPS in triple A which is probably almost on a par with the real Alejandro DeAza, not the short lived hot streak DeAza. But, unfortunately for Jackie Bradley Jr., there's no way to interpret his story as a compliment to our decision makers. Even if he's given time now and succeeds then there's an obvious reproach to why didn't they develop him better or be more patient or something to make this happen before. There's just no way that Jackie Bradley Jr. is going to be perceived as a triumph for the Red Sox. That puts him at a distinct disadvantage relative to a player for whom there's a ready made story template that puffs them up.

Plympton91 · Jul 18, 2015

Rasputin said:
Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley, (Johnson, Owens, Kelly)

I don't see how the Sox need multiple starting pitchers. I mean, an ace would be nice, but we're pretty much full up on halfways decent guys.

Only two of those guys have shown they can be halfways decent going forward. The others have sucked this year or not thrown a pitch in the major leagues yet.

The Red Sox need two more starters much better than Miley and two more relievers at least as good as Tazawa.

FanSinceBoggs · Jul 19, 2015

Possible 2016 rotation:

(1) Top starter via free agency
(2) Rodriguez
(3) Buchholz (I’m assuming the Red Sox will pick up his option)
(4) Porcello
(5) Johnson (Kelly/Wright compete with Johnson for the fifth spot in spring training—I think Johnson will emerge and earn a rotation spot)

Triple AAA depth: Owens, who has been pitching much better lately and will hopefully begin dominating the AAA competition next season.

Miley doesn’t have to be part of the 2016 staff. The Red Sox have enough middling starting pitchers to take his spot. I suppose you could keep Johnson in AAA next year, and give that rotation spot to Miley, but Johnson has earned a promotion and would just be wasting away in AAA.

Of course, the Red Sox may not sign a top free agent starter via free agency, but can they really go into next season without making a significant upgrade to their rotation?

But I think RedHawk is correct: no team is going to give the Red Sox a can't refuse offer for Miley. There will be better pitchers on the trade market and, unlike Miley, those pitchers will bring back top prospects. If the Red Sox can't get a sufficient return for Miley, it doesn't make sense to trade him.

Soxfan in Fla · Jul 19, 2015

While the pitching is indeed an issue, the bats have gone 18 innings post break without a run. This is not consistent at any facet of the game right now.

ivanvamp · Jul 19, 2015

The pitching has been great the last two games. This entire season has been so frustrating. When they pitch well, they can't score. When they hit, their pitching gets shelled. When the starters pitch great, the bullpen gives it up in the late innings.

Hee Sox Choi · Jul 19, 2015

ivanvamp said:
The pitching has been great the last two games. This entire season has been so frustrating. When they pitch well, they can't score. When they hit, their pitching gets shelled. When the starters pitch great, the bullpen gives it up in the late innings.

I hear you and feel the same way, but our run differential is 3rd worst in the AL with -47 (Seattle -48; ChiSox -74). This just isn't a very good team and we're now 91 games into the season and the differential isn't getting any better.

NDame616 · Jul 19, 2015

FanSinceBoggs said:
Possible 2016 rotation:

(1) Top starter via free agency
(2) Rodriguez
(3) Buchholz (Im assuming the Red Sox will pick up his option)
(4) Porcello
(5) Johnson (Kelly/Wright compete with Johnson for the fifth spot in spring trainingI think Johnson will emerge and earn a rotation spot)

Triple AAA depth: Owens, who has been pitching much better lately and will hopefully begin dominating the AAA competition next season.

Miley doesnt have to be part of the 2016 staff. The Red Sox have enough middling starting pitchers to take his spot. I suppose you could keep Johnson in AAA next year, and give that rotation spot to Miley, but Johnson has earned a promotion and would just be wasting away in AAA.

Of course, the Red Sox may not sign a top free agent starter via free agency, but can they really go into next season without making a significant upgrade to their rotation?

But I think RedHawk is correct: no team is going to give the Red Sox a can't refuse offer for Miley. There will be better pitchers on the trade market and, unlike Miley, those pitchers will bring back top prospects. If the Red Sox can't get a sufficient return for Miley, it doesn't make sense to trade him.

What about this ownership group makes you think they will go out and sign a top FA pitcher, one who is presumably in his 30s and will command a huge deal?

Also not sure why everyone is so down is Miley. Yea, he isn't sexy but contracts aside why in the world would we rather Porcello than Miley in our rotation?

If both were lined up to start the play in game this postseason, who would ypu rather have: Miley or Porcello?

Thelobsterroll · Jul 19, 2015

Plympton91 said:
Only two of those guys have shown they can be halfways decent going forward. The others have sucked this year or not thrown a pitch in the major leagues yet.

The Red Sox need two more starters much better than Miley and two more relievers at least as good as Tazawa.

I count three people, Buch Erod and Miley as being decent and not sucking this year. Best case Scenario Johnson is closer to Erod then Allen Webster this year and you have your starting five for 2016. Buch, Miley, Erod, Johnson and Porcello, with guys like Wright Owen and Kelly acting in reserve.

MikeM · Jul 19, 2015

Plympton91 said:
Only two of those guys have shown they can be halfways decent going forward. The others have sucked this year or not thrown a pitch in the major leagues yet.

The Red Sox need two more starters much better than Miley and two more relievers at least as good as Tazawa.

I'm not even that greedy. But as i've stated in the past, i still believe the $200 million dollar payroll team looking at a second consecutive last place finish says to hell with the previous philosophy that isn't working. Especially in this post-Lester era, where Clay Buchholz is now the "could step up" guy we are left leaning our seasonal hopes on.

Coming off this season's complete failure, Ben can't take the same approach 2 years in a row on this. There is simply no way around it. Combined with the investment money that was already thrown down last off season, going into next year with anything short of one substantial rotation upgrade and 2 more Taz or better quality relievers will pretty much be taking the epic fail to a Ruben Amaro type level.

Buchholz is also the guy more likely then Miley to play odd man out in some of these projected rotations being posted too imo. At least those that include us signing a guy like Cueto. Trading Miley off for a prospect would be pretty silly at this point in time. We need more pitchers capable of throwing a full season's worth of innings..not less.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 19, 2015

Plympton91 said:
Only two of those guys have shown they can be halfways decent going forward. The others have sucked this year or not thrown a pitch in the major leagues yet.

The Red Sox need two more starters much better than Miley and two more relievers at least as good as Tazawa.

Miley has been an above average pitcher since May 1st. Throw out those first 4 start as part of the transition to Boston and overall Miley has been really good. For some reason he continues being used in the same sentence as Porcello and Kelly which isn't the reality of his performance. Great contract too.

Our staff isn't THAT far from being just fine once Porcello gets back on track which I feel with ultimately occur.

Rasputin · Jul 19, 2015

Soxfan in Fla said:
While the pitching is indeed an issue, the bats have gone 18 innings post break without a run. This is not consistent at any facet of the game right now.

There's no such thing as consistency over a two game sample.

Rasputin · Jul 19, 2015

HomeRunBaker said:
Miley has been an above average pitcher since May 1st. Throw out those first 4 start as part of the transition to Boston and overall Miley has been really good. For some reason he continues being used in the same sentence as Porcello and Kelly which isn't the reality of his performance. Great contract too.

Our staff isn't THAT far from being just fine once Porcello gets back on track which I feel with ultimately occur.

Yeah, this. It's still going to lack an "ace" but I think it's fairly likely that the Sox go into 2016 with Rodriguez, Buchholz, Porcello, Miley, and one of Johnson, Kelly, Wright, Owens in the rotation.

Of course, that presumes Porcello continues to show some improvement in pitching to Hanigan and that Clay is as healthy as can be.

I'm hoping that Castillo and JBJ get the bulk of time in right after the deadline so we can have some kind of baseline on them going into 2016.

If we do and we're convinced one of them can start, the off season could pretty much consist of finding a first baseman and getting some bullpen arms.

MikeM · Jul 19, 2015

Rasputin said:
Yeah, this. It's still going to lack an "ace" but I think it's fairly likely that the Sox go into 2016 with Rodriguez, Buchholz, Porcello, Miley, and one of Johnson, Kelly, Wright, Owens in the rotation.

Of course, that presumes Porcello continues to show some improvement in pitching to Hanigan and that Clay is as healthy as can be.

I'm hoping that Castillo and JBJ get the bulk of time in right after the deadline so we can have some kind of baseline on them going into 2016.

If we do and we're convinced one of them can start, the off season could pretty much consist of finding a first baseman and getting some bullpen arms.

So we more or less re-wrap the same last place team, minus any major upgrades outside the non-closer portion of our bullpen (since i really can't see who the noteworthy 1B target would be atm), and go into 2016 selling it off as a legitimate rebuild type season? For all the talk that goes on about what we will or won't do in regards to signing a free agent starter, that ultimately seems even more unlikely imo. Henry and co have always shown themselves as the retool first types. As sexy as the prospect of going all in on our youth may be be to some here, seeing them essentially wave that white flag would be a first.

Again, your starting staff there is still left leaning pretty heavily on Clay Buchholz, who's all but reached 2004 Nomar status in his debatable value to this franchise going forward. Quite the tall order for a rotation already featuring 2 kids and a guy currently struggling to pitch at replacement level. I'm a firm Miley supporter...but i don't like him that much.

With a limited amount of attractive trade assets (that we would actually put on the table), i'll be somewhat surprised if both Castillo and Bradley make it through this deadline. Hanigan too, in the event we could pull a semi useful piece of the future puzzle out of him.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 19, 2015

MikeM said:
So we more or less re-wrap the same last place team, minus any major upgrades outside the non-closer portion of our bullpen (since i really can't see who the noteworthy 1B target would be atm), and go into 2016 selling it off as a legitimate rebuild type season? For all the talk that goes on about what we will or won't do in regards to signing a free agent starter, that ultimately seems even more unlikely imo. Henry and co have always shown themselves as the retool first types. As sexy as the prospect of going all in on our youth may be be to some here, seeing them essentially wave that white flag would be a first.

Again, your starting staff there is still left leaning pretty heavily on Clay Buchholz, who's all but reached 2004 Nomar status in his debatable value to this franchise going forward. Quite the tall order for a rotation already featuring 2 kids and a guy currently struggling to pitch at replacement level. I'm a firm Miley supporter...but i don't like him that much.

With a limited amount of attractive trade assets (that we would actually put on the table), i'll be somewhat surprised if both Castillo and Bradley make it through this deadline. Hanigan too, in the event we could pull a semi useful piece of the future puzzle out of him.

My interpretation of not being THAT far away means adding one starter (Hamels?), throwing more bullpen shit into the mix to see what sticks, and fixing first base. That isn't a major revamping nor is it being overly relying on the youth.

FanSinceBoggs · Jul 19, 2015

What about this ownership group makes you think they will go out and sign a top FA pitcher, one who is presumably in his 30s and will command a huge deal?

I'm not convinced the Red Sox will do this.

The one difference is the new variable that has been added, and that variable is: the 2015 season, or more specifically, the 2015 starting rotation. The Red Sox failed to put together an adequate starting rotation for the 2015 season and that reality may change their opinion on those lousy 30-year old Max Scherzer types.

RedOctober3829 · Jul 19, 2015

If you want to contend next year, the rotation has to get a major, major upgrade. Here's how id go at it. Trade for Hamels at deadline, sign Cueto, pick up Buchholz option then trade him in offseason to replenish prospects lost in Hamels deal. Rotation of Hamels, Cueto, ERod, Porcello, Miley. You'd have Napoli, Victorino, and Buchholz off the books to offset the money paid to Hamels/Cueto. I think an offer of Margot/Devers/Johnson could net Hamels. Philly getstwo top OF prospects and a plug in starter and Sox don't give up B's plus Swihart or Moncada.

Yelling At Clouds · Jul 19, 2015

So starter still TBA for tomorrow and Tuesday as of now?

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