Conference Realignment Thread

[Butch Hobsons elbo chips]

This is a pretty funny parody of John Matinatto and the Big East troubles. :rolling:

 

[mabrowndog]

Asking the basketball schools to leave the room was pure gold.

 

[RingoOSU]

This is a pretty funny parody of John Matinatto and the Big East troubles. :rolling:

God dammit. New Godwin's Law: The longer a thread goes on ANY subject, the probability of that fucking Downfall parody with Hitler appearing in it reaches 1.

 

[RingoOSU]

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Something to consider here. This is all on me, didn't hear from anyone at Uconn or associated with the school. ESPN just got a $25M tax break from the state of CT (along with Cigna) to remain in the state and bring in 600 jobs over the next 5 years. ESPN is driving expansion, epecially for the ACC, to which ESPN pays for rights. The Big East did not re-up with ESPN last year when they had the chance, holding out that adding TCU and maybe Navy and UCF would have brought in NBC/Comcast and/or Fox to bid up ESPN for rights. This pissed ESPN off, and they are more than happy to monopolize the East coast with their now below-market deal with the ACC, which will now be sweetened with the additions of Syracuse and Pitt. I would be willing to bet that the State of CT is or has called in its chit with ESPN because if the state University were to drop out of a AQS conference, it would hurt the school, the economy and state's perception a hell of a lot more than losing the employees at ESPN (who would have a hard time relocating given the overhead at their campus).

I didn't think of this until the governor of CT commented about conference realignment. But I'd bet anything this is happening. It also explaisn UConn Pres bravado regarding not commiting to the BE and comments from "unnamed sources" stating Uconn is next in line for the ACC after ND.

Does ESPN have that kind of power? I believe it does. I can't make a case that Uconn is a better choice than Rutgers or WVU or Louisville, but all I have read is Uconn is the choice.

Or maybe I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.

ESPN has plenty of power - I just don't think they will exercise it on behalf of UConn. The money they are getting from the state to create "jobs", the majority of which are going to be childcare providers at their new daycare center, is insignificant. It will take a bunch more of bankroom deals regarding tax breaks to get them on board. But since they are in the business of ratings, wouldn't it be in their best interests to push for Rutgers to try and get some NYC share for their programming?

Also, don't forget the bad blood between CT and ACC as a result of current Sen. Blumenthal's Quixote-esque turn dragging them and BC into court. The state did get some money in a settlement, but it didn't cover the cost of litigation. And rumor has it that BC is vetoing UConn's admission.....Reap what you sow.

So I can see UConn getting screwed on this....

 

[BigMike]

Maybe ESPN excercises it's power by handing the new-new Big East with ECU and UCF, etc a good television contract.

I do think ESPN is the only chance UConn has, but it is a longshot

 

[Infield Infidel]

What an abysmal hire John Marinatto is, especially with a visionary like Larry Scott out there. Marinatto is more like a stationary

Let's count the missteps :

1. Not moving the league office to NYC, leaving it in the backwater that is Providence (and I'm a native Rhode Islander.) That was the first thing adviser Paul Tagliabue said the Big East should do, and they didn't listen to the guy that grew the NFL into a billion dollar league. They actually just renewed the lease in Providence last year. Stupid.

2. Not dumping every bball-only school not named Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's. These are the schools with name-brand recognition; no one outside of locals care about Seton Hall, PC, Marquette, or DePaul. Eleven basketball teams would have been much more manageable, and they would be more on the same page

3. Not giving ND an ultimatum of all-in, or all-out. So what if another league gets their bball and Olympic sports? In retrospect, having them has only made the league more unstable.

4. Jesus Christ, not signing the ESPN deal last year that would have been worth more per school than the ACC deal, and then raising the exit fee

5. Not working harder behind the scenes with the PAC-12 to get the Big 12 to fall apart and pick up Kansas/KSU/ISU.

The guy is a 53 and he's never been married. He probably would't know a first move if it hit him in the face

 

[Skeesix]

What an abysmal hire John Marinato is, especially with a visionary like Larry Scott out there. Marinato is more like a stationary

Let's count the missteps :

1. Not moving the league office to NYC, leaving it in the backwater that is Providence (and I'm a native Rhode Islander.) That was the first thing adviser Paul Tagliabue said the Big East should do, and they didn't listen to the guy that grew the NFL into a billion dollar league. They actually just renewed the lease in Providence last year. Stupid.

2. Not dumping every bball-only school not named Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's. These are the schools with name-brand recognition; no one outside of locals care about Seton Hall, PC, Marquette, or DePaul. Eleven basketball teams would have been much more manageable, and they would be more on the same page

3. Not giving ND an ultimatum of all-in, or all-out. So what if another league gets their bball and Olympic sports? In retrospect, having them has only made the league more unstable.

4. Jesus Christ, not signing the ESPN deal last year that would have been worth more per school than the ACC deal, and then raising the exit fee

5. Not working harder behind the scenes with the PAC-12 to get the Big 12 to fall apart and pick up Kansas/KSU/ISU.

What was the rationale behind adding Marquette and DePaul anyways? It makes no sense unless you want to establish yourself as a Catholic conference, because it weakens the regional identity of a big east. But then you can't be both a Catholic conference and a BCS conference at the same time, at least not at this point.

I don't agree with you about Kansas/KSU/ISU for the same regional reasons.

 

[8slim]

What was the rationale behind adding Marquette and DePaul anyways? It makes no sense unless you want to establish yourself as a Catholic conference, because it weakens the regional identity of a big east. But then you can't be both a Catholic conference and a BCS conference at the same time, at least not at this point.

I don't agree with you about Kansas/KSU/ISU for the same regional reasons.

The Big East was desperate after the 2003 raid. They needed markets to renew their TV deal. And the hoops schools demanded parity in terms of membership with the football schools. Honestly what the BE did in 2004 to keep the league afloat was very good, but ultimately it was just putting a band aid on a much bigger fundamental structural problem.

 

[Royal Reader]

For success in college sports you need a coach first and a conference second. People forget how bad alabama and Auburn were just five and six years ago, or that UNC hoops was under .500 after Dean Smith left. Michigan football. I wonder what will happen to Duke when Coach K leaves, or Uconn when Calhoun leaves. Or villanova with Jay Wright...so on.

Auburn in 2005 were one year removed from an undefeated season and went 9-3. They were hardly terrible.

 

[bsan34]

What was the rationale behind adding Marquette and DePaul anyways? It makes no sense unless you want to establish yourself as a Catholic conference, because it weakens the regional identity of a big east. But then you can't be both a Catholic conference and a BCS conference at the same time, at least not at this point.

I don't agree with you about Kansas/KSU/ISU for the same regional reasons.

The hoops schools wouldn't have okayed the addition of 5 football schools. Adding Marquette and DePaul made the football:basketball balance an even 8:8, even though the basketball schools just let the football schools push through whatever they want.

At this point, I'm a huge proponent of the hoops schools being on their own if it is even remotely financially possible. The football schools have been utterly useless and their suck is as much a part of the conference's weakness as Marinatto's incompetence.

 

[The Napkin]

I split out the BC-UConn stuff that managed to find its way into yet another thread. Please try to keep it in the new thread. Because no one fucking cares.

 

[8slim]

The hoops schools wouldn't have okayed the addition of 5 football schools. Adding Marquette and DePaul made the football:basketball balance an even 8:8, even though the basketball schools just let the football schools push through whatever they want.

At this point, I'm a huge proponent of the hoops schools being on their own if it is even remotely financially possible. The football schools have been utterly useless and their suck is as much a part of the conference's weakness as Marinatto's incompetence.

Without Big East football the hoops schools would have become the Atlantic 10 a decade ago.

 

[pdaj]

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You are wrong. No one gives a shit about Syracuse in NYC outside of Syracuse grads. The fact you keep arguing this is retarded.

But I knew you were an idiot. So I am even more of an idiot for engaging you.

Syracuse has nothing to do with NYC.

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[Skeesix]

The hoops schools wouldn't have okayed the addition of 5 football schools. Adding Marquette and DePaul made the football:basketball balance an even 8:8, even though the basketball schools just let the football schools push through whatever they want.

At this point, I'm a huge proponent of the hoops schools being on their own if it is even remotely financially possible. The football schools have been utterly useless and their suck is as much a part of the conference's weakness as Marinatto's incompetence.

The basketball schools just let the football schools push through whatever they want?

This is a confusing statement. Certainly the football schools didn't want to keep the headquarters in Providence.

 

[DukeSox]

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[/size][/font]http://thequad.blogs...lignment-chaos/

This "share of population" part says it all.

NYC is not a college football market. At all. 10% of the population cares about college football. Much of that is transplants who are working in NYC and from all around the country (and thus irrelevant to the "adding the NYC market to our conference!" line)

There are mid-sized cities across the US that have more real college football fans than NYC.

 

[Captaincoop]

This "share of population" part says it all.

NYC is not a college football market. At all. 10% of the population cares about college football. Much of that is transplants who are working in NYC and from all around the country (and thus irrelevant to the "adding the NYC market to our conference!" line)

There are mid-sized cities across the US thaot have more real college football fans than NYC.

10% of NYC is a lot of people. New York is more than ten times bigger than a midsized American city - and I don't think there are markets out there that are 100% populated by college football fans.

 

[bsj]

[font="arial][size="2"]

[/size][/font]http://thequad.blogs...lignment-chaos/

The ny tv market includes jersey. I never argued that the dma is Rutgers heavy. NJ is 10:1 for Rutgers. I am talking the 5 boroughs exclusively.

 

[mauf]

One issue not mentioned here (unless I missed it) is what kind of breakup fee ND would need to pay to leave the Big East. ND has their own deal, so it won't necessarily be the same as what other schools pay.

The breakup fee (whatever it is) surely wouldn't keep ND from doing what's best for its football program, but the fee wouldn't have to be all that big to make ND think twice about moving its non-football sports to the ACC. That's especially true if they're seriously considering a move to the Big Ten in 2015.

 

[DukeSox]

10% of NYC is a lot of people. New York is more than ten times bigger than a midsized American city - and I don't think there are markets out there that are 100% populated by college football fans.

Yeah but that 10% roots for a billion different teams. Your Conference doesn't have all those teams, just one or two.

 

[DukeSox]

 

[Infield Infidel]

TAMU to SEC: it's official

Texas A&M is set to join the Southeastern Conference, the league said Sunday, possibly signaling legal hurdles have been cleared for the Aggies to leave the Big 12.

The SEC announced the move will be effective next July, and said Texas A&M will participate in all sports during the 2012-13 academic year. That gives the SEC 13 members and its first addition since South Carolina and Arkansas joined in 1992.

The Aggies' defection from the Big 12 had been held up by the possibility of legal action from Baylor and other members, but sources told ESPN's Joe Schad that the school's play in the conference next year is "unconditional." If any school, including Baylor, files litigation against A&M, it would be addressed at that time.

A Big 12 administrator said neither the SEC nor Texas A&M have asked any of the Big 12 schools to waive their right to sue. The person spoke Sunday night on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7019493/texas-aggies-officially-get-accepted-sec

 

[Butch Hobsons elbo chips]

2. Not dumping every bball-only school not named Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's. These are the schools with name-brand recognition; no one outside of locals care about Seton Hall, PC, Marquette, or DePaul. Eleven basketball teams would have been much more manageable, and they would be more on the same page

3. Not giving ND an ultimatum of all-in, or all-out. So what if another league gets their bball and Olympic sports? In retrospect, having them has only made the league more unstable.

What you wanted to happen and what had a chance to happen are two different things. 8 Votes are 8 Votes and the Basketball schools weren't going to let anything happen to each other over the last decade. I do agree ND was a thumb in the eye of BE football...but the basketball schools really didn't care because they wanted ND for their hoops and non-revenue sports.
And I take it you aren't very familiar with the Marquette program. Their NCAA Tournament profile is very similar to Villanova over history, they are TOP 15 IN THE COUNTRY in attendance for almost every year since 2003 and they report more Basketball Profit than Villanova, Georgetown, and St Johns combined. Only Dayton & Xavier are making more basketball profits among Catholic schools.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/03/09/louisville-syracuse-and-marquette-the-top-big-east-schools-in-mens-basketball-revenue/

 

[RingoOSU]

I'll miss A&M. They're the only top 25 program Gundy can beat on a yearly basis.

 

[Kremlin Watcher]

I'll miss A&M. They're the only top 25 program Gundy can beat on a yearly basis.

Meant to thank you for that on Saturday. I'll miss them for the humor value. Won't be the same if we're not playing them on a regular basis.

 

[Infield Infidel]

What you wanted to happen and what had a chance to happen are two different things. 8 Votes are 8 Votes and the Basketball schools weren't going to let anything happen to each other over the last decade. I do agree ND was a thumb in the eye of BE football...but the basketball schools really didn't care because they wanted ND for their hoops and non-revenue sports.

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/09/jim_boeheim_blames_syracuses_d.html

On Tuesday, the Hall of Fame coach talked about Syracuse’s impending departure from the Big East. He pointed a finger at Notre Dame’s president, who despite the fact that Notre Dame has its own television contract and isn’t a member of the Big East’s football conference, advocated walking away from a $1 billion deal with ESPN earlier this week.
...
Q: To clarify, you’re talking about Notre Dame’s Father Jenkins being on the committee.
Boeheim: “Yeah. I don’t know why that is. Why would he have a say on the football contract when they don’t participate in it? If they really wanted to keep the Big East together they would have come in in football, then we wouldn’t be talking about this.

This and other reports show the undermining influence ND has on the league. ND voted against signing the ESPN contract. Why should they have even had a full vote, seeing as they have their own TV deal? Cuse and Pitt would have stayed if ND played Big East football. Football drives the bus, even in the Big East. The Bball schools will probably lose ND now anyway.

Do you really think if the football schools voted to break off, G'town, Nova and St. John's wouldn't want to tag along? If you're G'town, Nova and St. John's, which would you rather have on your sched, long-time rivals like Pitt and Syracuse, or afterthoughts like Seton Hall, PC and DePaul? I'm sure their fanbases aren't happy about the turn of events.

My main point was the league was unstable for a long time, and Marinatto did little to bring stability

And I take it you aren't very familiar with the Marquette program. Their NCAA Tournament profile is very similar to Villanova over history, they are TOP 15 IN THE COUNTRY in attendance for almost every year since 2003 and they report more Basketball Profit than Villanova, Georgetown, and St Johns combined. Only Dayton & Xavier are making more basketball profits among Catholic schools.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/03/09/louisville-syracuse-and-marquette-the-top-big-east-schools-in-mens-basketball-revenue/

I never said anything about Marquette's quality, and I'm well aware of how good the program is. If they were anywhere else, or not tied at the hip with DePaul, keeping them would be a no-brainer. But I'm also aware that their market (35th nationally) pales in comparison to Philly (#4), DC (#9), and NYC (#1). Every basketball school except Providence is in a bigger market. They don't bring much to the table when it comes to TV negotiations, and just split the pie further.

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

http://blog.syracuse...yracuses_d.html

This and other reports show the undermining influence ND has on the league. ND voted against signing the ESPN contract. Why should they have even had a full vote, seeing as they have their own TV deal? Cuse and Pitt would have stayed if ND played Big East football. Football drives the bus, even in the Big East. The Bball schools will probably lose ND now anyway.

It was a unanimous vote, as I recall. How is that suddenly ND's fault? ND had a more vested interest than anyone in trying to keep the conference together.

Boeheim is disingenuously trying to deflect blame.

 

[Senator Donut]

Big East presidents voted unanimously to reject the ESPN deal.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/06/06/In-Depth/Rights-Fees.aspx

In early April when leaders of the Big East were discussing broad outlines of a seven-year extension of the conference’s media deal with ESPN, there was sharp, internal disagreement. Most saw the number — an average of $130 million a year — as a healthy increase that would boost their coffers. A vocal minority, however, saw a TV marketplace ripe for a larger increase.

Presidents from Georgetown, Notre Dame, Rutgers and Seton Hall voted against the deal, sources said. Others, including Pittsburgh and West Virginia, also were vocal skeptics of the deal, preferring to wait and see what the open market would bring once ESPN’s deals ended, following the 2013-14 football season. Still, the presidents voted 12-4 to accept its broad outlines.

Four weeks later, just a week after a record-breaking deal for the Pac-10’s media rights was announced, the Big East’s presidents met again. Not surprisingly, they needed only 15 minutes to reach a unanimous decision to reject ESPN’s offer.

The emphasis is mine.

 

[LeftyTG]

It was a unanimous vote, as I recall. How is that suddenly ND's fault? ND had a more vested interest than anyone in trying to keep the conference together.

Boeheim is disingenuously trying to deflect blame.

Boeheim is right. It doesn't matter whether or not the decision to reject the deal was unanimous or not. Why the hell should ND be on the committee? If ND joined the BE in football, the BE would have stabilized and Syracuse and Pitt would not have left for the ACC. That's the point Boeheim is making, and he is making it in light of Jack Swarbrick statements blaming Syracuse and Pitt for not looking out for the interests of the larger enterprise. Which, of course, is incredibly rich coming from Notre Dame. Good for Boeheim.

 

[Senator Donut]

Boeheim is right. It doesn't matter whether or not the decision to reject the deal was unanimous or not. Why the hell should ND be on the committee? If ND joined the BE in football, the BE would have stabilized and Syracuse and Pitt would not have left for the ACC. That's the point Boeheim is making, and he is making it in light of Jack Swarbrick statements blaming Syracuse and Pitt for not looking out for the interests of the larger enterprise. Which, of course, is incredibly rich coming from Notre Dame. Good for Boeheim.

I don't know if you're intentionally obtuse here, but why shouldn't Notre Dame and the seven other Big East institutions who don't play FBS football have a vote on their media rights? The ESPN offer was for football and basketball. It wasn't just the basketball schools who were skeptical either. Pitt and Rutgers thought it would ve better to wait until the Pac-12 made it's deal, which proved to be a wise decision when the Pac-12's media deal exceeded even the most optimistic of all predictions.

 

[Infield Infidel]

I don't know if you're intentionally obtuse here, but why shouldn't Notre Dame and the seven other Big East institutions who don't play FBS football have a vote on their media rights? The ESPN offer was for football and basketball. It wasn't just the basketball schools who were skeptical either. Pitt and Rutgers thought it would ve better to wait until the Pac-12 made it's deal, which proved to be a wise decision when the Pac-12's media deal exceeded even the most optimistic of all predictions.

Since the other basketball schools don't have FBS football, it's totally fine that they have a full vote.

But since ND has FBS football, and their own contract, they should get at most half a vote; their full vote has an impact on something in which they choose not to participate. By your reasoning, the Big East schools should have a vote in ND's NBC contract. And I should be able to vote in Canada.

 

[Senator Donut]

Since the other basketball schools don't have FBS football, it's totally fine that they have a full vote.

But since ND has FBS football, and their own contract, they should get at most half a vote; their full vote has an impact on something in which they choose not to participate. By your reasoning, the Big East schools should have a vote in ND's NBC contract. And I should be able to vote in Canada.

By your reasoning each citizen's vote should be multiplied by what they pay in taxes.

Porpotionial representation doesn't really work here. If the basketball presidents were given only half of a vote, the football schools could conceivably force through a deal that gives the basketball little share of a combined deal. One school one vote is the only method that really works if football and basketball are negotiated jointly.

 

[Infield Infidel]

It's not about proportionality, it's about participation. Did you not read where I said the bball schools should get a full vote? None of them have FBS football. Every school in the Big East participates in Big East sports to the fullest extent their programs allow, except ND. So they should all get a full vote, except ND.

I'm going to stop here since you obviously can't look at this unbiasedly. I don't even have anything against ND, it's just weird that they have any influence on something they don't participate in.

 

[Senator Donut]

I'm going to stop here since you obviously can't look at this unbiasedly.

Well, the Big East sees it my way and the voted Fr. John Jenkins chair of CEO executive committee.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Well, the Big East sees it my way and the voted Fr. John Jenkins chair of CEO executive committee.

And that's why Big East football is going down the toilet. They have no idea how to manage themselves. He'll have a great time presiding over a league of basketball schools, Temple, James Madison, U. Buffalo, U. Toronto, McGill, Holy Cross, and the Sun Belt pu pu platter.

 

[Butch Hobsons elbo chips]

Do you really think if the football schools voted to break off, G'town, Nova and St. John's wouldn't want to tag along? If you're G'town, Nova and St. John's, which would you rather have on your sched, long-time rivals like Pitt and Syracuse, or afterthoughts like Seton Hall, PC and DePaul? I'm sure their fanbases aren't happy about the turn of events.

No fanbase in the Big East is happy about Syracuse & PITT Basketball leaving but it's done and the defection of schools is hardly surprising to anyone who has watched the instability of the hybrid conference model. Even Marinatto's predecessor stated he knew the League was not built to last. It was just a matter of who eventually left and where they ended up. Pitt and Syracuse were talking with the ACC long before the new TV contract was rejected recently.

Georgetown//Syracuse or Villanova//PITT can play each other every season no matter what Conference they are in. It's not like the overgrown albatros known as the Big East was letting teams play each other twice a season every year. Home & Away match-ups shrunk to 3 and was about to drop to 2 as dictated by the League. Boeheim said he wants to keep that game so why not sign a 10yr deal with Georgetown for OOC game every season.
Expansion in the name of Football killed off more Big East Basketball rivalry games than any other change to the League over the last 20 years.

Villanova, Georgetown & St Johns aren't tag along schools unless someone is going to gift them a ton of bonus money from the Football TV contract. They have no reason to be treated as 2nd class athletic programs in some Football dominated Conference where they would be getting out-spent across the board on athletics including facilities. Georgetown & St Johns along with Seton Hall & Providence form the MAJORITY of the 7 BIG EAST founding members. Villanova joined shortly after and is the 5th of the 9 members that were part of the Big East Basketball emergence in the 1980's. 30 years later and these 5 schools still have more in common than they do with the BE Football achools.

I never said anything about Marquette's quality, and I'm well aware of how good the program is. If they were anywhere else, or not tied at the hip with DePaul, keeping them would be a no-brainer. But I'm also aware that their market (35th nationally) pales in comparison to Philly (#4), DC (#9), and NYC (#1). Every basketball school except Providence is in a bigger market. They don't bring much to the table when it comes to TV negotiations, and just split the pie further.

Marquette's ties to DePaul aren't any greater than they are to Notre Dame. Historically, all 3 of those basketball programs along with Detroit-Mercy were linked for many years as independents in the midwest who regularly scheduled each other.
Having a high quality winning basketball program with outstanding attendance in Milwaukee is hardly a negative issue when the Big East has had schools in similar or weaker media markets like Syracuse (#83), Louisville (#49), Cincinnati (#33) and Hartford/Storrs (#30).
TV Markets don't matter a whole lot if you can't put a product on the floor that people want to watch. St Johns attendance had plummeted over the last decade as they had little success on the court until last season. It's great to have representation in Top markets but if Rutgers, St Johns, USF and DePaul don't put a winning product on the court, not a whole lot of people want to follow them.

 

[Butch Hobsons elbo chips]

It's not about proportionality, it's about participation. Did you not read where I said the bball schools should get a full vote? None of them have FBS football. Every school in the Big East participates in Big East sports to the fullest extent their programs allow, except ND. So they should all get a full vote, except ND.

...fullest extent their programs allow? Who is deciding what sports you have to participate in?
Syracuse Baseball hasn't bothered to show up to a game in 32 years.
The dropping of the historic Seton Hall Track & Field program was never approved by a vote by the League.

The Athletic Depts at each school decides what sports they want to have in the League and which sports they don't. The BIG EAST wanted Notre Dame as a Member in the conference knowing they were a Football independent. Notre Dame doesn't have to put a football team in BIG EAST if they don't want. Remember, these are the same football schools that have so far refused Villanova an official invitation to Big East football even though Villanova is already a 30yr member of the Conference.

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

Since the other basketball schools don't have FBS football, it's totally fine that they have a full vote.

But since ND has FBS football, and their own contract, they should get at most half a vote; their full vote has an impact on something in which they choose not to participate.

<boggle>

(re-reads)

<boggle> <boggle>

That's so ridiculous, it's sapping my will to try to formulate a reasoned response.

How is ND's decision to decline football participation in the Big East any different from Villanova's or Georgetown's (edit: from the perspective of the Big East---in the case of both ND and Villanova, the school has a football team that is not a member of the conference, and all other sports are members of the conference)? It's one thing for you to suggest that the basketball-only members should not have a full vote on the conference media deal. I wouldn't go that far myself, but I would agree that they should not be involved in the football part of it. But the idea that ND is materially different from Villanova or Georgetown because they have a non-participating football team is ludicrous.

Look, I get it that it's a sore point with the Big East (especially the football schools) that ND football thinks its above the whole conference thing. That's no excuse to behave completely irrationally whenever the involvement of ND in the conference is involved.

 

[Butch Hobsons elbo chips]

This Sunday October 2nd, the BIG EAST presidents will gather to discuss the current status of the League. They have been asked to bring along their Athletic Directors so this isn't the usual do-nothing meeting. Originally they weren't expected to meet until November so they moved up the meeting.

Navy wants the BIG EAST but is skittish right now but still has real interest if the Conference actually shows some commitment and stability going forward.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7005807/navy-midshipmen-interested-big-east-not-hot-pursuit-membership

"The Big East is in more of a reaction mode with what's happened with Pitt and Syracuse," he said. "What's critically important for the Big East is they need to stabilize the membership first and make certain the people there now will remain the core of the membership moving forward. It's awfully disconcerting to read, and you never know what's right and what's speculative."

Gladchuk said he had no timetable for making a decision, but it does not appear Navy would be able to join anytime soon because of obligations.
"We're lock, stock and barrel for at least seven, eight years with everything, bowls, TV, scheduling," he said. "We're not in a situation where we have to react quickly. Yes, the future is conference affiliation. It has to be. Yes, the Big East has been incredibly attractive to the Naval Academy. But the Big East has got to make certain that the players are the players and that everybody is in and committed. With that strength of unity, the Big East can get through all this."

The Musical chairs continues...
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/09/27/bcs-football-big-12-expansion-options-boise-state-byu-missouri-to-the-sec-and-more-on-realignment/

The Big 12, which currently has nine teams but may be down to eight very soon — if Missouri leaves for the SEC — is considering expanding to 12, according to sources.
Boise State, Brigham Young, West Virginia and Louisville are under consideration.
(That would be a pretty good league, by the way. Six of the 12 teams are currently ranked: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia and Boise State.)

*** What about Texas Christian?
Texas purportedly doesn’t want the Frogs — and never has — and the other schools are worried about the league being too Texas-centric. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen, however — TCU makes a ton of sense on several levels and the league may not have many options.

*** As far as BYU is concerned, remember:
No school in the country is tougher to read — many people think they know what the Cougars are thinking and very few actually do.
I’ve been told the Cougars are happy with their Olympic sports in the West Coast Conference.

WVU looking at BIG 12, SEC and still hoping for a revamped BIG EAST.
http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/JackBogaczyk/201109273087

The reality is that right now, the Mountaineers' best option is a rebuilt football Big East. It's the option over which WVU has the most control because it's part of it. Schools have to deal in what's real in this, not speculation and imagination.
Also, those who know say the Big East - if it loses no programs besides ACC-bound Syracuse and Pitt - can remain a Bowl Championship Series conference.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Look, 10 days ago you wouldn't find a bigger Big East football fan than me. But now there are only two schools that were in the conference pre-2004. They've lost 2 founding members (BC/Cuse), another early member (Pitt) and another founding member is clawing away (UConn).

I think it would be best for the schools involved to go their separate ways, and for Big East football to end. Ideally, the ACC takes UConn and Rutgers, Mizzou leaves the Big 12 and then they take the remaining for Big East schools to get back to 12. But that's all doubtful and a couple of these schools (Rutgers, USF, Cinci) could be fucked.

Having a high quality winning basketball program with outstanding attendance in Milwaukee is hardly a negative issue when the Big East has had schools in similar or weaker media markets like Syracuse (#83), Louisville (#49), Cincinnati (#33) and Hartford/Storrs (#30).
TV Markets don't matter a whole lot if you can't put a product on the floor that people want to watch.

What do all those schools have that Marquette doesn't?

The deal the Big East turned down was 9/yr, $1b. Conservatively, let's say the nine football schools avg $9.5M/yr (which is $3.4m/yr less than the ACC got two years ago, the lowest recent deal). That means they would bring in $770 million into the league over that time, and the basketball schools would bring in $230 mil, or about $3.16m/yr each. So each of those four schools you noted are worth, conservatively, triple to the league than Marquette.

If the football schools got $10m/yr from the deal, they each would be worth almost quadruple the basketball schools ($2.64m/yr).

 

[Infield Infidel]

How is ND's decision to decline football participation in the Big East any different from Villanova's or Georgetown's (edit: from the perspective of the Big East---in the case of both ND and Villanova, the school has a football team that is not a member of the conference, and all other sports are members of the conference)? It's one thing for you to suggest that the basketball-only members should not have a full vote on the conference media deal. I wouldn't go that far myself, but I would agree that they should not be involved in the football part of it. But the idea that ND is materially different from Villanova or Georgetown because they have a non-participating football team is ludicrous.

Look, I get it that it's a sore point with the Big East (especially the football schools) that ND football thinks its above the whole conference thing. That's no excuse to behave completely irrationally whenever the involvement of ND in the conference is involved.

If you cannot see the difference between Nova/G'town football and ND football, I don't know what to tell you. ND is FBS, has a conditional BCS bid, a highly profitable football program, a multi-million dollar national TV deal, and a 80,000 seat stadium packed every week.
Nova is FCS, is rarely on TV, has an empty 12,500 seat stadium (couldn't sell out playoff games), and loses $2m every year. One is Jupiter, the other is a fig newton.
And Georgetown doesn't even field an FCS minimum 63 scholarship roster.

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

Sure, they're different within the context of their own athletic departments, but they're the same as far as the Big East is concerned: neither is a member, and neither is going to be a member.

 

[twothousandone]

The reality is that right now, the Mountaineers' best option is a rebuilt football Big East. It's the option over which WVU has the most control because it's part of it. Schools have to deal in what's real in this, not speculation and imagination.
Also, those who know say the Big East - if it loses no programs besides ACC-bound Syracuse and Pitt - can remain a Bowl Championship Series conference.

And isn't there a decent chance that, year-in and year-out, WVU is as good as the ACC champion?

 

[JMDurron]

A quick moment of levity.

Mark Emmert: "It's Not A Business"

As a growing number of schools play musical chairs with conferences, NCAA President Mark Emmert says he is concerned about the perception that money is driving the decisions and declared "this is not the NFL, the NBA, it's not a business."

Instead, Emmert is urging school presidents to consider factors besides revenue when choosing conference affiliation.

"I think what came across (with realignment) is that all we care about is money and what we can do that is to our advantage," Emmert said Wednesday. "Nobody was talking about what this is going to do for student-athletes or intercollegiate athletic programs. It was all about let's make a deal."

This seems like a case where he had to say something, it's more or less clear what he had to say, and it's equally clear that nobody is going to buy it.

 

[Infield Infidel]

I think it would be best for the schools involved to go their separate ways, and for Big East football to end. Ideally, the ACC takes UConn and Rutgers, Mizzou leaves the Big 12 and then they take the remaining for Big East schools to get back to 12. But that's all doubtful and a couple of these schools (Rutgers, USF, Cinci) could be fucked.

Ding ding, and probably adios Big East Football (or at least its BCS bid)

https://twitter.com/#!/Lockedonsports/status/119469336208478208

@Lockedonsports David Locke A Cincinnati paid site is reporting #BYU, #TCU, #Louisville, #Cincinnati, West Virginia to join Big 12 -- if Missouri stays that makes 14

Should these rumors of an exodus be true and the Big East fold as a football conference, it is unclear what would become of the three football playing members left behind. South Florida does not appear to be under consideration by any of the existing AQ conferences. Connecticut and Rutgers have both publicly expressed, to one degree or another, a desire to be in the ACC but expanding beyond 14 members doesn't appear to be on the ACC's agenda unless it can lure a very big fish. Like Notre Dame. The Big East's best option might be to add the service academies as football playing members, Houston, East Carolina, Central Florida, Temple, and invite Villanova to move up to FBS football and hope that adding teams with growth potential will allow it to regain its AQ status down the road.

Sunday's meeting of Big East presidents might be an exit interview now.

http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2011/9/29/2458627/conference-realignment-rumors-of-a-big-east-mass-exodus#storyjump

 

[RingoOSU]

I'm hearing the big 12 makes four invites only if missouri leaves, and BYU is not one of the four. It's just TCU, WVU, Louisville and Cinci.

 

[TomRicardo]

That sure is going to be an awkward 3 years of football for the Big East

 

[mabrowndog]

The Big East's best option might be to add the service academies as football playing members, Houston, East Carolina, Central Florida, Temple, and invite Villanova to move up to FBS football

I highly doubt there'll be two teams from Philadelphia.

Regardless of what teams get added if the departures for the Big 12 occur as reported, the Big East is going to be the Conference of Misfit Toys.

 

[Infield Infidel]

The fates of at least a dozen schools rest on the shoulders of . . . Missouri. It's like Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo

A source close to the Big 12 told Sporting News no action will be taken on expansion until the conference receives confirmation of Missouri’s commitment to the league. Indications from Mizzou have been more positive lately about remaining a Big 12 member, and a final decision is expected next week

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-09-30/big-12-puts-merger-on-hold-awaits-missouris-commitment#ixzz1ZUzb9KA3

 

[Sea Dog]

Mizzou Board of Curators have been meeting all day, but no word so far, and reporters on Twitter are complaining that Mizzou's teleconference sounds like 57 channels airing all at once -- radio stations not muting on their end, constant talking over each other, etc.

Wouldn't blame Mizzou for leaving for the SEC's stability, but as a KU guy, I would hate to see that rivalry gone from the conference. The Big 12 is better with Mizzou in it. And yes, I feel sick to my stomach having typed that.