Conference Realignment Thread
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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In what world is Utah a 'National' program and Oregon not? They've been one of the better teams in a non-BCS conference for a while, but 'Best non-BCS' is not 'national power.' If titles and top-10 rankings are your thing, why is South Carolina, which has one one conference title, EVER, there?
And being second in Texas is a much better position, long-run, than second in Oklahoma. A&M's historically underperformed the size of program it is, but it's still a big school, great facilities, draws 80k regularly.
No more conveniently than I left out Utah in 2001 (35). It's a real stretch to claim that BC was a more successful program than Utah from 2001-2010.
I'm not really arguing that nor have I ever. I'm arguing that Utah is not a national program with highly sustained success. Yeah, they're a good team that has had two very good years but they're basically a top 30ish team otherwise. The point is that they're much more closer to BC than they are most other teams on that list. I used a throwaway line when looking at Utah's record over the last 10 years, which is irrelevant for some reason I still don't quite understand but I digress, and, well, certain people are unable to not get butthurt whenever you mention certain schools.
I forgot to add the Pac 12 teams to that list. I mention Oregon, USC, and Stanford earlier.
Ahem, I am a BC fan but I am also a realist. I can't drill down on all of Utahs's numbers over the past few years but if you look over on the BC thread, I have given a pretty storng statistcal argument about the state of the BC program. In a nutshell, since 2009, they are overall 19-19 including wins over Weber State, UMass and Northeastern. They are 2-10 in games against Va Tech, Clemson, FSU and Notre Dame, all national programs. They have only 8 wins in three years against FBS schools with 4 wins or more in a season, and of that, only 4 wins against schools with winning records. They are 2-16 in games when trailing at halftime. They have not beaten a ranked opponent, won a bowl game or been ranked themselves. Pretty crappy if you ask me. Yet they have produced a BUtkus/Lombardi winner and a another LB who was the ACC Defensive player of the year and would have been a first round draft pick but for a horrible disease. They had the #112 ranked offense, and the #44 ranked defense. BC plays in the ACC.
Utah HAS been ranked nationally since 2009, has an overall record of 27-11 with only 1 FCS opponent in that span (Montana State who is in the FCS playoffs). They were ranked #18 in defense and #78 in offense and will be in their third bowl game against Ga Tech in the Sun Bowl. Utah plays in the Pac 12.
IDK but I would say that at least at this time, Utah is the better program and a more "national" power, whatever the hell that means.
You guys are arguing over where BC and Utah stand in relevance as national programs. That's like arguing over TRic's and Rasputin's status as porn stars.
Id agree if Tric was only talking about the current times. However from his list, it doesnt look like he is. Notre Dame hasnt been relevant since the early mid 90s. Same with a lot of the non-OSU B10 programs on his list. If youre looking at just the very modern window - theres no doubt - Utah is in considerably better shape and is a much stronger program.
Navy enters the Big East in Football only starting in 2015.
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2012/01/24/navy_to_board_big_east_football_in_2015/?p1=Well_Sports_links
Look for Pitt and Syracuse to now buy out their deals with the BE just as WVU has and enter the ACC next year. Asuming they do, the BE, if they bring everyone on board in the next 12-18 months (which is likely at this point) would look like this for football:
East Division
Navy
UConn
UCF
USF
Rutgers
Cincy
West Division
Louisville
SMU
Houston
San Diego State
Boise State
Look for them to now add Army in the East and move Cincy to the West to get to 12 teams or add another western team from the MWC or WAC to fill it out. It sure looks a lot different from when I was a student at the 'Cuse and went to the basketball tournament at MSG in the early '80s. Is thie even a legit BCS conference when you actually see it on paper???
http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2012/01/24/navy_to_board_big_east_football_in_2015/?p1=Well_Sports_links
Look for Pitt and Syracuse to now buy out their deals with the BE just as WVU has and enter the ACC next year. Asuming they do, the BE, if they bring everyone on board in the next 12-18 months (which is likely at this point) would look like this for football:
East Division
Navy
UConn
UCF
USF
Rutgers
Cincy
West Division
Louisville
SMU
Houston
San Diego State
Boise State
Look for them to now add Army in the East and move Cincy to the West to get to 12 teams or add another western team from the MWC or WAC to fill it out. It sure looks a lot different from when I was a student at the 'Cuse and went to the basketball tournament at MSG in the early '80s. Is thie even a legit BCS conference when you actually see it on paper???
I guess in the current college football climate, Army would have no choice but to join if offered, but folks around West Point swore for years that they'd never join a conference again after their failed experiment with Conference USA. The feeling was that the academic differences between West Point and the Memphis, Houston, Southern Miss etc. was so drastic that Army couldn't recruit on the same level as them. They also felt that the Conference USA wasn't particularly intriguing to recruits, and that they were better off when they could pick and choose teams as an Independent. The AD who pushed the move to Conference USA was run out of town and is still credited for the fall that Army's football program has seen. Like I said, I guess they have to follow Navy if offered, but there will be a lot of people there that aren't happy about it, and I have a lot of trouble seeing them being competitive in that league.
Notre Dame is only relevant because you can't have a college football conversation without someone going on and on about how Notre Dame is not relevant. Everyone pays attention to them just celebrate when the inevitably fall.
Losing Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU for Houston, Boise State, Navy, San Diego State, UCF and SMU makes the BE less of a BCS conference than it was before? I'd say that they've only improved.
Memphis is joining the Big East in all sports starting in the 2013-14 season.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7551260/memphis-tigers-joining-big-east-2013-14-season
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7551260/memphis-tigers-joining-big-east-2013-14-season
If the Big East is going to have a western division for football Memphis makes sense.
Memphis
Boise
SDSU
Houston
SMU
BYU??
Air Force??
They still need at least one more team though. It would be even smarter for scheduling if they had seven teams, so each team would only have two inter-division games, necessitating only one cross-country trip (and hosting a cross-country game as well to even things out). They should revisit BYU and Air Force and just give them whatever they want to get them to come along as football-only. BYU is already in WCC for basketball and WCC would probably take Air Force too.
East
USF
UCF
Rutgers
UConn
Louisville
Cincinatti
Navy
Not great, but the best of a shit situation
Memphis
Boise
SDSU
Houston
SMU
BYU??
Air Force??
They still need at least one more team though. It would be even smarter for scheduling if they had seven teams, so each team would only have two inter-division games, necessitating only one cross-country trip (and hosting a cross-country game as well to even things out). They should revisit BYU and Air Force and just give them whatever they want to get them to come along as football-only. BYU is already in WCC for basketball and WCC would probably take Air Force too.
East
USF
UCF
Rutgers
UConn
Louisville
Cincinatti
Navy
Not great, but the best of a shit situation
I still can't understand why we don't hear anything about Tulsa being a prospective target for the Big East. Strong academics, solid and consistently competitive teams in both basketball & football with lots of tradition (plus a strong soccer program), and an SMSA of almost a million people that ranks 54th in the nation and grew by nearly 10% over the past decade. Putting them in the west would help balance the divisions and also retain the established intra-divisional C-USA rivalries with Houston & SMU, including the Methodists vs Presbyterians "Holy War" with the Mustangs.
Infield: They now have 12 teams with Memphis. Take your divisions as outlined above and move Louisville to the West and add Memphis there. The West division will now be SD State, Boise, SMU, Houston, Louisville, Memphis..... The East will be UConn, USF, Rutgers, UCF, Navy and Cincinnati. That's the Big East football conference. Add the non football schools and you have a great college basketball conference but no way is this a BCS football conference. Combine the MWC and WAC and what's left of C-USA and that hodge podge is as ggod as this in football....and no one is talking about that combination as a BCS conference.
Look for the conference to play 8 league games, 5 in your own division with one designated cross division "rival" (say UConn-Louisville for the hoops side of the house and/or Navy-San Diego State since SD is a huge Navy town) along with 2 round robin home/home games against the rest of the other dvision (i.e. UConn-Boise/ UConn-Houston home/home followed by home/ homes with SMU and SD State) and look for the league championship game most likely to be played at the Citrus Bowl in Orlando. With 4 non conferene games, a UConn can play UMass and still schedule the Iowa States, Vandy's Michigans, etc. and build out a competitive schedule and Navy can play ND and the other service academies.
The Big Conf USA East is a joke. Read that Rutgers is telling recruits that they will be in the Big 10 soon. also heard that the Big 12 is looking at FSU and Clemson to expand (thosse two schools would increase their revenues by 50% even after the "new" ACC deal).
edit: and, with THE Big East, there is no way theya re going into 2012 with a guarnateed BCS spot and only seven teams, the best of which is.....Rutgers? Cincy? I guarnatee that there will be so much pressure on Boise to join in 2012 just so that no one gets stuck with another potentially horrible team playing ina BCS bowl game that they will do whatever needs to be done to get there
edit: and, with THE Big East, there is no way theya re going into 2012 with a guarnateed BCS spot and only seven teams, the best of which is.....Rutgers? Cincy? I guarnatee that there will be so much pressure on Boise to join in 2012 just so that no one gets stuck with another potentially horrible team playing ina BCS bowl game that they will do whatever needs to be done to get there
The BCS, as we know it now, is dying.....The bowl alliances are coming up and you will see a total revamp of the system with the BCS only giving a damn about the #1 and #2 teams. The rest of the BCS bowls will be free to pick who they want, unless they agree to stick with a confernce affiliation (i.e. Rose Bowl with the Pac-12 and Big 10). It will be like the old days when they competed for teams and teams competed to be chosen. Look for 7 wins to be the new entry point for bowl eligibility. Do you think the Orange Bowl has any interest, really, if a Fla school, Clemson or Va Tech isn't in the game?? Of course not. Can you imagine an Orange Bowl with NC State and Memphis?? They would never let it happen.
yeah, the BCS will probably only be in charge of a top 4. They are miffed about the drop in ratings. Heard on Ivan Maisel's podcast that they are thinking of putting the BCS title game up for stadiums to bid (like the super bowl). and then having semis either on campus or at two other bowls (Big Ten wants on campus, others are undecided). Everything else will be conf affiliation or bowls picking whoever they want.
For the Big East, this is just about getting TV markets, having enough teams for scheduling, and getting another good basketball school.
It would be beyond moronic to have the conf title game anywhere but on the campus of the league leader. No one will go otherwise, the schools are too far flung
For the Big East, this is just about getting TV markets, having enough teams for scheduling, and getting another good basketball school.
My reasoning for saying 14 would be better is the way this is playing out, each team will have three interdivisional games, meaning half the teams would have two cross-country flights, and half the teams would have one. That's pretty unfair. With 14 teams, each team would only have two interdivisional games, meaning everyone would have one cross-country flight. Saves money on travel. Also, SEC and ACC will have 14 so it's not exactly unprecedented anymore. And Louisville cannot be happy with flying to San Diego or Boise every year.
It would be beyond moronic to have the conf title game anywhere but on the campus of the league leader. No one will go otherwise, the schools are too far flung
I can think of a way for the bowls to get their ratings back. Let them be quarter, semi, and final games for an 8 team national championship. (insert sarcasm)
I don't ever recall a ratings discussion in the media following March Madness.
I don't ever recall a ratings discussion in the media following March Madness.
Tulsa, really? It's a respectable metropolitan area, but still smaller than alternatives like Memphis and Tulane. Television markets don't matter as much when it is the third most popular team in town. Tulsa also has the smallest enrollment in all of FBS and football fans without any connection to the university are more likely to support the Sooners and Cowboys.
I give you: Franken-conference!
Colorado State
East Carolina
Fresno State
Marshall
Rice
Tulane
Air Force
Alabama-Birmingham
Hawai'i
UNLV
Nevada-Reno
New Mexico
Southern Mississippi
UTEP
Tulsa
Wyoming
See you on ESPN2 on Tuesday nights, boys!
Colorado State
East Carolina
Fresno State
Marshall
Rice
Tulane
Air Force
Alabama-Birmingham
Hawai'i
UNLV
Nevada-Reno
New Mexico
Southern Mississippi
UTEP
Tulsa
Wyoming
See you on ESPN2 on Tuesday nights, boys!
"With the exception of Hawai'i as a football-only member, the participation would involve all sports"
That said, I think Marshall would have quite enjoyed the trip to Hawaii. . . . Oh wait, they'd have to fly . . . perhaps not.
Edit: dammit Ringo
I'm just glad the Big 12 took West Virginia instead of Marshall. Oklahoma State and Marshall in the same conference is just ASKING for it.
At least it's been downsized from the ridiculous 22-team behemoth they originally proposed, thanks to the Big East's desperate pilfering of 6 teams. I assume that for sports other than football and basketball, most conference games will be within divisions that mirror their pre-merger affiliations.
http://brett-mcmurph...532522/34946571
Not doing it earlier will likely cost the conference at least $2.5m extra. Great going guys!
I think this is a smart move and I'm surprised they hadn't done it earlier. Decent football lately, and always solid basketball.
Not doing it earlier will likely cost the conference at least $2.5m extra. Great going guys!
Wither the A10, poor URI. This leaves Xavier is a weird spot, they are likely going to just have to ride it out in the A10 hoping for a Big East collaspe and the formation of a catholic/non-football basketball league.
In other news, the ACC says Syracuse is joining the Atlantic division, and Pitt is joining the Coastal division. They will be cross-division rivals playing yearly in football, but they'll never contest for a division title. Quick, name their new divisional rivals? So once again, given the chance to put rival teams in the same division, the ACC doesn't, just like they did with the tobacco road schools. Their divisional setup is a classic case of over-thinking.
Wouldn't putting all the former Big East schools in one division make more sense?
What makes more sense:
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Maryland
Coastal: UNC, NC St, Duke, Wake Forest, FSU, GTech, Clemson
or this?
Under the announced setup, Syracuse gets to play former rivals Miami and VaTech once each every three years.
Wouldn't putting all the former Big East schools in one division make more sense?
What makes more sense:
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Maryland
Coastal: UNC, NC St, Duke, Wake Forest, FSU, GTech, Clemson
or this?
Under the announced setup, Syracuse gets to play former rivals Miami and VaTech once each every three years.
The ACC does not want to see a mini-BE subconference exist with some identity within their own conference. When the BE had three teams in the final four in the 80's, people were jumping out of windows down here.
They will root for a sworn enemy as long as its an ACC school advancing once they've been eliminated.
They will root for a sworn enemy as long as its an ACC school advancing once they've been eliminated.
If I'm Syracuse (and I kind of am), I'm elated with that setup. In basketball, they have the three best non-SU programs in the other division (UNC, Duke, Pitt). And in football, I know SU has to contend with Clemson and Florida State, but I think that Georgia Tech, UNC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, and Miami constitute a much tougher division.
Maybe that divisional setup is just for football, though, and the basketball aspect doesn't come into play. Either way, it's a win for SU.
I'm sure in football, VT, Maryland, and UVA are fighting hard to stop that alignment from happeneing. Those schools want more games in the Carolina's, Georgia and Florida where the recruits are. If they are forced to travel north for most of their games, thats going to be bad for recruiting.
All that said, their division alignments are a cluster the way they are currently constructed.
For the 'Cuse, its BC; for Pitt, its Va Tech. I think the reason it went this way is because BC had a lot of say in how this shook out with the old BE teams coming into the conference. It was down to UConn or Pitt coming in and BC didn't want either but told Swofford and Company if they had to let one of them in, let it be Pitt and put them in the Coastal. That way BC only has to play them once every 3 years, they are not a direct recruiting threat and they are the lesser of two evils as between them and UConn.
For BC and Syracuse, this actually sets up as a natural rivalry. They will be playing in the same division, playing each other, most lkely as the last regular season game each year, they both will likely play an FCS school from the Northeast, a MAC school as their weak non conference D1 opponent, and a wild card (i.e. ND, USC, Bama, Texas, etc.) Their recruiting areas are very similar so the programs will be in competition with one another on a pretty heated basis. I mean if you take the name off the top of the schedule you won't be able to tell the programs apart when you are looking at them (same kids, same schedule, similar graduation rates). It works for them. As for Pitt, I think it is more for the basketball side. It helps that they have a D1 football program and keeps a numbers balance but I will give you that there isn't a real divisional rival for them. Va Tech is probably the closest.
It's just for football. In basketball, each school goes through a 3-year with other schools, playing home-and-home, home only, and away only in the 3 years except for one "primary partner" who they play home-and-home every year. Syracuse plays BC as their primary; Pitt gets Maryland. Duke/UNC (duh), Clemson/GaTech, FSU/Miami, NC State/Wake, and Virginia/VA Tech are the other pairs.
SC and TAMU presidents both say they are likely cross-division rivals
which means Mizzou would play Arkansas
http://www.fbschedules.com/2012/03/arkansas-missouri-south-carolina-texas-am-to-become-permanent-sec-rivals/
CBS reporting VCU, George Mason, Butler and potentially Creighton are negotiating with the Atlantic-10.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18045227/vcu-george-mason-butler-in-discussions-to-join-atlantic-10
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/18045227/vcu-george-mason-butler-in-discussions-to-join-atlantic-10
Just catching up on this thread...what are they thinking about? So BC gets to play Wake Forest and NC State every year...and Miami once every three years? Ugh.
St. Louis (and Dayton) wasn't far enough away from the Atlantic, they are thinking about Omaha?
WTF.
I do think VCU is a great fit.
basketball-only schools to the A-10 and football schools to the CAA makes sense.
Whither UNH and Maine football, to the NorCon with URI? The closest CAA school is what, Delaware?
edit- Charlotte discussing a move to the SunBelt is also interesting. Thought they would have higher sites than that. MAC?
Whither UNH and Maine football, to the NorCon with URI? The closest CAA school is what, Delaware?
edit- Charlotte discussing a move to the SunBelt is also interesting. Thought they would have higher sites than that. MAC?
The sun belt might be their easiest entry into FBS football. I think the northern schools in the CAA that play football will break off with other FCS schools to form another conference. URI is going to the NEC which means reducing scholarships.
From what I've heard from the Butler athletic department, the first round of Butler to A10 rumors were coming from Dayton and Xavier, which is why that ESPN guy in Dayton 'broke' it.
Butler's athletic director Barry Collier has been trying to get out of the Horizon League since he took the job a handful of years ago. The problem Butler has is their athletic department budget is minuscule and they don't have very good facilities. This is a great move for the A10 but Butler will get destroyed in almost every sport in the A10 outside of men's basketball and cross country and they're going to need financial assurances from the A10 to make this move work.
Creighton, on the other hand, has phenomenal facilities, a large budget, and they're the only show in Omaha. The crown-jewel of the MVC.
If this goes through, the A10 would be taking the best men's basketball program from the two best mid-major conferences and nabbing two of the top programs in the CAA. They would corner the market on good non-football basketball programs outside of the west coast.
There's a poster on a URI message board that says his son is friendly with the son of a URI football coach. The poster says this coach has told him that Maine has already applied for NEC membership. I haven't seen even a whisper of this on anygivensaturday.com or anywhere else, so I'm still pretty skeptical. I always thought Maine would stick in the CAA with UNH as long as possible.
Lots of rumblings today...
* We've heard the VCU & George Mason to the A-10 rumors/reports. Today Lenn Robbins of the NY Post says it's going to happen on May 1, along with the Butler move. But shortly after that tweet came this from ESPN's Andy Katz:
* Prior to Katz's tweet, the Robbins report on VCU/GMU plus the GSU news led to this analysis of the CAA by blogger Matt Peloquin:
* We've heard the VCU & George Mason to the A-10 rumors/reports. Today Lenn Robbins of the NY Post says it's going to happen on May 1, along with the Butler move. But shortly after that tweet came this from ESPN's Andy Katz:
* Georgia St reportedly stepping up to FBS, leaving the CAA for the Sun Belt
Then there's this interesting scenario...
If that happens, Maine & UNH To the NEC would seem a fait accomplit.
* Prior to Katz's tweet, the Robbins report on VCU/GMU plus the GSU news led to this analysis of the CAA by blogger Matt Peloquin:
* More fuel on the "Appalachian State to FBS" fire
Our AD here at Stony Brook tweeted last night that there will be some "transformative" news regarding athletics soon.......