Some people always want to bicker and insult each other.genivive said:How is it that every single discussion dissolves into bickering and insults? This is getting ridiculous.
Some people always want to bicker and insult each other.genivive said:How is it that every single discussion dissolves into bickering and insults? This is getting ridiculous.
HomeBrew1901 said:Just so I'm clear, posters are pissed at Shaugnessy for actually asking Ortiz to his face whether or no the was on PEDs and repoting what he said rather than just writing his opinion? Do I have that right?
"I fully acknowledge the right the media has to ask difficult questions and to express controversial opinions," wrote Werner, who then asserted that Ortiz has been tested five times for performance-enhancing drugs, and also submitted to a blood exam that tests for human growth hormone.
"Why then, should a writer publicly assert a presumption of guilt -- without any foundation, without any basis, and without any evidence?" Werner wrote. "Does this mean that whenever an athlete -- particularly a Dominican athlete -- does something exceptional, we have to assume he cheated?"
502 to Right said:CHB is a no talent ass clown. I wish we could all ignore the likes of CHB and Skip Bayless and then they'd be unemployed.
wutang112878 said:I am glad Werner is sticking up for him, but there was 1 little bit of evidence, that Ortiz was on the steroid list which he admitted he was on.
If you even did a simple Google search you will find that the creator of The Clear says it is feasible that Ortiz unknowingly took a legal supplement that was laced with a steroid.wutang112878 said:I am glad Werner is sticking up for him, but there was 1 little bit of evidence, that Ortiz was on the steroid list which he admitted he was on.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/balco-chemist-david-ortiz-supplement-tale-feasible-article-1.395677#ixzz2Szbx6pPmPatrick Arnold, who did prison time for his role in the BALCO
scandal, said it's possible Ortiz took 19-norandrostenedione, a
supplement that contained the hard-core steroid nandrolone and which
could be purchased legally in 2003.
"Yes, people back then did
test positive because of supplements, and occasionally it was for
nandrolone, which I think (Ortiz) is alluding to, but not verbatim,"
Arnold told the Daily News yesterday. "If he could say it was
nandrolone, I'd say, 'OK, you may have a case.' In lieu of the fact
there are no exact details (about what Ortiz took), the possibility of
having a false positive from supplement use in 2003 is definitely
plausible. We'll never learn if this is an excuse (for players) or a
legitimate defense until we know more details about the substances in
question."
I fully acknowledge the right the media has to ask difficult questions and to express controversial opinions. Freedom of the press is fundamental in our culture.
They had the right, but was it right?
We're in a new media world, and fact-less accusations stick.
Those who publicly ask questions must take responsibility for their words.
David Ortiz estimates he has been tested five times this year -- plus a blood test.
Furthermore, it is well known that the World Anti-Doping Agency has called MLB's testing program the toughest in all of American sports.
Why then, should a writer publicly assert a presumption of guilt -- without any foundation, without any basis, and without any evidence?
Does this mean that whenever an athlete -- particularly a Dominican athlete -- does something exceptional, we have to assume he cheated?
In today's media world, the question -- even if it's false, inflammatory and without real basis -- can become the story.
Baseball has done so much in recent years to improve its quality and defend its integrity. Should we not also speak out and insist upon solid journalistic standards and not stand by complacently and silently, lamenting their erosion?...
In the movie "42," which depicts Jackie Robinson's pioneering effort breaking the color barrier, we are reminded that baseball sets an example for society. Let's ask the media to also set an example.
Readers should understand that Shaughnessy’s job, as a sports columnist, is not to be a fan boy, player’s pal or owner’s suck-up. It is not to make sure he remains in good standing with the ever-vigilant Internet police.
No, his job is to provoke thought, and he is one of the best in the country at it. I say this as someone who once was a sports columnist for the Baltimore Sun — and wasn’t nearly as good.
I do think Shank's column breached journalistic ethics, and the Red Sox would have plenty of cause to yank his credentials over it.
riboflav said:This is disingenuous. My understanding of that "list" is one person saw it and reported it. MLB came out and said that the list also contained many players who did not test positive. So that one bit of evidence you cite is pretty flimsy and not really solid enough for a responsible journalist to base an entire interview on.
RedOctober3829 said:If you even did a simple Google search you will find that the creator of The Clear says it is feasible that Ortiz unknowingly took a legal supplement that was laced with a steroid.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/05/11/david-ortiz-to-dan-shaughnessy-look-who-it-is/As David Ortiz prepared to leave the Red Sox clubhouse after the team’s 3-2 loss to the Blue Jays, he did a double-take. The sight of Dan Shaughnessy, the Boston Globe columnist who confronted the slugger directly with suspicions about the possibility of his use of steroids, standing with a group of reporters, caught Ortiz’s attention.
“Look who it is,” Ortiz said.
He paused for a moment, then noted — loudly enough that all in the clubhouse were party to his address — that on the very day on which Shaughnessy interviewed him, he took a test for PEDs. Ortiz said he would be sure to pass along results of that test to the columnist. Ortiz became slightly more animated as he noted that he’d taken 40 tests administered by Major League Baseball.
“I’ve never tested positive,” Ortiz told the columnist, who had referenced the fact that the New York Times discovered in 2009 that the slugger had tested positive for a performance-enhancer in 2003 (at a time when a) there were no penalties for positive tests and b) test results were supposed to be anonymous).
When the report surfaced four years ago, Ortiz disputed that he had ever knowingly used PEDs, something that he mentioned anew to Shaughnessy as he walked towards the clubhouse door.
“By the way,” Ortiz said, “let me know what I tested positive for in 2003
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:Which journalistic ethic did he break?
Van Everyman said:The Dominican thing is unfortunate -- but in Shank's defense, there has been a lot of news on guys getting stuff in the DR -- how the controls down there are worse, etc. Hell, ARod was the biggest name after Bonds related to steroids -- and lest we forget, his cousin Yuri was procuring "boli" on trips to Santo Domingo.
And before we tar the guy as the Grand Wizard of the Boston Clan, there has has been more than a little talk here on SoSH about Dominicans and PEDs. Just take a look at some of the game threads when, say, Bartolo Colon has started against us.
Rosenthal et al are right to say that it's not fair to paint all Dominicans with the same brush but it's not like Shank is the first one to think it or suggest it.
DrewDawg said:Other reporters might think that's an unfair thing to do...
At the suggestion of a # of members of this board, I stopped reading CHB more than 3 years ago, and I can tell you it makes for a much more pleasant journey over the sports pages.bankshot1 said:The last thing anyone wants is to have the Sox make CHB a martyr, who's cause of freedom the press, is trumpeted by other writers. And they will.
Saint Shank was so wrong in this instance, of guilt by insinuation and by reason of nationality,that it there is no rational defense for his article. Don't give him a another platform to defend himself.
Facts, not opinions: According to Major League Baseball, there have been
636 professional players suspended for violating MLB’s drug policies
since 2005. Two hundred and thirty-four of those 636 are from the
Dominican Republic. That’s 37 percent. Players from the Dominican
Republic made up 10.4 percent (89 of 856) of Opening Day rosters in
2013. Of 38 positive tests involving major league players, 13 players
(34 percent) hailed from the DR. This doesn’t mean all Dominican players
use steroids. It means the steroid issue is significant in the DR.
I'm not sure I follow- isn't he comparing the number of Dominican professional suspensions to the number of overall professional suspensions, then doing the same for big-league suspensions?joe dokes said:
Is he really trying to get by by comparing the number of professionsal suspensions with the number of major leaguers from the DR with positives? Is he that stupid? That sloppy? That biased? Does he think we're so stupid? Or am I the idiot and I've mised something. Check my work before I send him a nasty-gram (copied to Globe editors) please.
I'm not math-man, but if, as i supect, there are many timmes a higher %% of DR players in the minors than MLB, then he's totally fulloshit.
Wilco's Last Fan said:I'm not sure I follow- isn't he comparing the number of Dominican professional suspensions to the number of overall professional suspensions, then doing the same for big-league suspensions?
What am I missing?
Wilco's Last Fan said:I'm not sure I follow- isn't he comparing the number of Dominican professional suspensions to the number of overall professional suspensions, then doing the same for big-league suspensions?
What am I missing?
And then there's the steroid thing, which is stupid, but which we have to talk about because earlier this month the Boston Globe's Dan Shaughnessy wrote a column in which he skated inches from outright stating Ortiz was currently using PEDs (he didn't, because unlike the casual fans whose banter his column resembles, he can't get away with libel). The fact remains that the term "PED" covers a vast array of products used in a wide variety of combinations, and we are woefully unequipped to perform any kind of analysis of what a guy's stats might or might not look like if he were using any or all of these substances -- especially if a guy is testing clean like Ortiz is. When you walk down the road of "stats bad = clean, stats good = dirty" in 2013, you're doing so not because you have something interesting to say about steroid or HGH use in American professional sports; you're doing so because for some reason, you want to watch a guy burn. If you're a particularly loathsome beetle about it, you bring his race into it too in some sort of twisted mockery of law enforcement's racial profiling. And really there's just no reason to engage with the question of whether or not Ortiz is using and what it means until he fails a test out in the open regardless of what you think of the 2003 result, because there's nothing informative you could possibly have to say on the matter.
JimD said:Sports on Earth's Jonathan Bernhardt walks up to Shaughnessy http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/48047864/]and hits him over the head with a chair[/url]:
Awesome.
Dan Shaughnessy wrote a column in which he skated inches from outright stating Ortiz was currently using PEDs
History does repeat it self it seems.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:What I love the most is that everyone in the media knew that Hernandez was a bad guy, but no one said anything until this past week.
Now they're all coming out of the woodwork to proclaim that even though they didn't write or say anything, they all knew.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:What I love the most is that everyone in the media knew that Hernandez was a bad guy, but no one said anything until this past week.
Now they're all coming out of the woodwork to proclaim that even though they didn't write or say anything, they all knew.