Edgar Martinez should be in the Hall regardless.
But that's a discussion for another thread.
David Ortiz will retire at end of 2016 season.
- Thread starter soxhop411
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But that's a discussion for another thread.
Except to add that anyone who wants Papi in the Hall in 6 years ought to be lobbying hard for Edgar right now. Getting Martinez in would remove one big obstacle for Ortiz.
This is true - having Edgar in before Ortiz is eligible would help "grease the wheels."
Since, otherwise, when he's on the ballot, he'll have a bunch of "Well, Edgar's not in, so..." to deal with.
My favorite Ortiz memory is the Fenway crowd chanting "MVP" during Game 6 of the 2013 World Series whenever he came to bat.
Good to see him go out on his own terms. I believe both Edgar Martinez and Ortiz should be in the Hall; the anti-DH bias is Cafardo-esque (and even Cafardo believes Papi should be in first ballot).
Good to see him go out on his own terms. I believe both Edgar Martinez and Ortiz should be in the Hall; the anti-DH bias is Cafardo-esque (and even Cafardo believes Papi should be in first ballot).
Have watched David's young lad on numerous occasions during batting practice at Fenway. That youngster can hit a baseball.
I think you're right that Edgar belongs as well, but I think it's a bridge too far to say that Papi doesn't belong unless Edgar does. As I've argued in other threads, it's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Value. The numbers are the most important part of the resume, but they're not the only part; there's a subjective component to Hall-worthiness. It's possible for X to be demonstrably a less productive baseball player than Y, yet still have a better Hall case because he excelled at creating extraordinary, memorable experiences for baseball fans. I think that's true of Papi and Edgar; of course I'm a Sox fan, so I would think that. But I suspect that some Hall voters who are not Sox fans will think so too. I guess we'll find out.
Right, I think Papi's case, however more esoteric than Edgar's, is good enough on its own. It's just shocking how bad the east coast media bias is sometimes, though. Compare Jim Rice's career value to Edgar's. Yikes. But for more on that, I think I'll move over to the recent "Is Papi a HOF Lock" thread.
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Michael Silverman with the hottest of hot sportz take of the day.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2015/11/silverman_lets_hope_the_david_ortiz_farewell_tour_is_short_and_sweet
The gist is, "I'm already sick of hearing about David Ortiz' retirement." Apparent Silverman is sick of being an anonymous Sox reporter and wants to make a name for himself.
Click at your own risk, it's sizzling.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2015/11/silverman_lets_hope_the_david_ortiz_farewell_tour_is_short_and_sweet
The gist is, "I'm already sick of hearing about David Ortiz' retirement." Apparent Silverman is sick of being an anonymous Sox reporter and wants to make a name for himself.
Click at your own risk, it's sizzling.
When you think back to iconic players of the 90s, Edgar was a force; oddly, while he was always overshadowed by some other figure on the team (Johnson, Griffey, A-Rod, Ichiro) today I associate him and Jay Buhner more with the Mariners than any of the bigger names. It's sort of amazing that those late 90s Mariners teams didn't even make it to the WS.
Thanks for posting this. It's an eloquent statement that reminds me of the situation lots of people in the public eye find themselves in:
I'm not so sure it's East Coast bias as opposed to combination of anti-DH bias and antiquated thoughts from the old school writers that still dominate the ballot. I mean, Jim Rice with his RBIs were the most feared hitter of the 80s.
Nice article by the Washington Post's Adam Kilgore (why can't we get guys like him) on how Papi came to be a Red Sox.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/11/18/how-david-ortiz-became-a-star-and-an-icon-for-the-boston-red-sox/?postshare=2261447855551941&tid=ss_tw
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/11/18/how-david-ortiz-became-a-star-and-an-icon-for-the-boston-red-sox/?postshare=2261447855551941&tid=ss_tw
No... I agree with him, I wish we had writers like him covering the sox. He used to write exclusively about the Nats (and was a damn good reporter then), but now that he is a national reporter we get excellent articles like the one on Ortiz
I hear he used to write for some paper called the Boston Globe once upon a time, too.
Okay, I wasn't clear enough. Kilgore used to write about the Red Sox for the Globe ... which is why edoug said "why can't we get guys like him"
Now ... don't respond to this because we don't need to hijack this any further
Thanks for posting this - a really enjoyable read.
However, I must quibble with Ortiz's version of the origin story: Dave Jauss recommended the signing to Theo, having seen Ortiz up-close during the Dominican winter ball season.
To be clear, it's certainly likely Pedro was involved - because God is involved in all things - but without Jauss's thumbs-up, it's possible Ortiz doesn't end up in Boston.
Finally, when the board switch happened, and signatures were shortened, I removed a line I had been using since October of 2004:
"If we had Ortiz, I guarantee we could still be chanting 1918 at games." - yanks710
First, I accept whatever blame there is for removing this, because the retirement announcement happened mere days after. So, I apologize.
And second, yanks710 is probably right. So thank you Big Papi, you magnificent bastard. Everyone in New England owes you a beer and a whole pizza.
Didn't see this in the thread. Gammons tribute to Ortiz:
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/49502912/v530232183/mlb-tonight-pays-tribute-to-david-ortiz
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/49502912/v530232183/mlb-tonight-pays-tribute-to-david-ortiz
Dr. Charles told me in person on his trip to Nova Scotia with the World Series Trophy in the spring of 2014, that Pedro did recommend to baseball operations that David Ortiz should become a Red Sox. I believe that it was also mentioned in Michael Silverman's book as well.
Pete Abraham @PeteAbe 14s14 seconds ago
David Ortiz said his post-retirement plans will include TV and he hopes a role with the #RedSox.
David Ortiz said his post-retirement plans will include TV and he hopes a role with the #RedSox.
I'm looking forward to the final tribute at Fenway (the one just before playoffs start), with Pedro, Manny (maybe even Marichal, Vlad, others) and a cast of thousands.
If they can find a microphone for Jim Rice, Señor Octubre sure ought to get one. (Might be prudent to have the broadcast on a seven second delay, though.)
If Ortiz did TV it would likely be on a national level like Pedro. He's too big for NESN. I would think the role with the organization would be a coaching or front office role.
Rays broadcaster Dave Wills was asked if he'd give David Ortiz a standing ovation for his last plate apperance at the Trop and he said he'd "rather get a hotdog", generally disparaged Papi about his "past" and how he's not half the class act Mariano is...ugh
I despise the athlete victory lap also. It is poison. There should be one ceremony at home at the end of the regular season.
I hope Big Papi gets a job with the Sox or in a broadcast booth. What I have always found interesting about Big Papi is his constant attention to being focused. Maybe he could help others with focus.
I hope Big Papi gets a job with the Sox or in a broadcast booth. What I have always found interesting about Big Papi is his constant attention to being focused. Maybe he could help others with focus.
I'm as big of a home centric fan as anyone I know, but there is something cool about acknowledging a long time, respected rival in his last appearance in town. I thought the way the Cs fans handled Kobe this year was cool, as were the reactions to Jeter and Mariano in the last few years. I could do without lengthy, elaborate ceremonies but when all time greats announce their retirement before the season, tasteful celebrations along the way seem OK to me. As a Sox fan living in the NY area, I am going to make it a point to go to Ortiz's last game here, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the NY crowd handles that.
At the same time, if a rival fan or announcer takes no joy in it or does not participate, I'd completely understand that, too. I'd choose to get a beer or go to the bathroom rather than sit through a LeBron or A-Rod ceremony.
At the same time, if a rival fan or announcer takes no joy in it or does not participate, I'd completely understand that, too. I'd choose to get a beer or go to the bathroom rather than sit through a LeBron or A-Rod ceremony.
We're sorry, the judges were looking for "whatchu talkin' bout, Willis?"
A great Ortiz quote, when asked about the possibility of having a gay teammate:
“It’s the (expletive) 21st century man. Get over it.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/steve_buckley/2014/02/buckley_david_ortiz_is_ok_with_gay
“It’s the (expletive) 21st century man. Get over it.”
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/steve_buckley/2014/02/buckley_david_ortiz_is_ok_with_gay
Ortiz is settling all family business: hugs it out with A-Rod, resolving a dispute that had simmered since Rodriguez's lawyer implicitly accused Ortiz of using steroids (without, you know, any evidence whatsoever besides rumor and innuendo).
Presumable those "some circles" are whatever parts of the Inferno contain the Papi-Haters.
Alex Speier with some great quotes from Papi on "bat-flipping" and other celebrations:
And lots more like that.
I don't really care about the bat flipping issue, and I certain think throwing at guys for "showing up the pitcher" is stupid. However, reading the Papi quote jogged the brain. Wasn't there a quote attributed to Ted Williams along the lines of "I don't celebrate homers because I want to look like I've done it before and that I expect I'll do it again."
And in Ted's day when a football player made a sack or an NBAer slammed down a dunk or an NHLer scored a big goal they didn't fist pump, dance, or hug their teammates. That's how it's done these days, emotion is a part of sports and I don't see anything wrong with it.
Last I checked, Ortiz didn't spit at any fans while rounding the bases.
Seriously, the whole "pimping of home runs" did not start with David Ortiz, nor is it strictly a new phenomenon. I recall Dennis Eckersley fist pumping and pointing at batters in the on deck circle during his days in Cleveland. And, as Papi himself pointed out, The Babe would was never shy about this HR's either either.
The reason why baseball players are cringing at the whole "unwritten rules" nonsense is that those rules are completely arbitrary and for the most part made up by players victimized by the antics and their Cafardo-esque supporters in the media, aka, the same mediots that think Goose Gossage is still relevant. Some players are more emotional than others, and letting them express that emotion on the field is perfectly harmless. Opposing players that can't deal with that should have thought more carefully about their career choices.
I agree. The bolded expresses it perfectly. Perhaps there should be an all levels awareness campaign, beginning with a warning read to all little leaguers. "Thou shalt not become pouty over a pimping."
(Does anyone know if the quote in my prior post actually is a Williams quote?)
I don't recall that one. I do remember him talking about trying to hit a heckler with a foul ball, though.
sorry if this link doesn't work (it's been wonky), but this oral history of papa's career is a great deal of fun to read
www.bleacherreport.com/articles/2627719-big-man-big-personality-the-oral-history-of-david-ortizs-mlb-adventure
www.bleacherreport.com/articles/2627719-big-man-big-personality-the-oral-history-of-david-ortizs-mlb-adventure
That is a fabulous read. I didn't know the story that Peavy told of him wearing a fancy suit to the game when he hit 2 HRs and pissed off Price with the pimping. I LOVE that story. And I love that Wake makes sure to explain what he's doing with his charitable work. I hate this season because it is his last.