“@TMZ_Sports: Derrick Rose — Accused of Drugging and Gang Raping Ex-Girlfriend http://t.co/amc3ESkUF6
And you are why rape culture persists. Good job.ypioca said:these days, I don't doubt anyone being a ghoul.
Plus a 4-game suspension.CoRP said:I think that the allegation sounds serious enough to warrant awarding this woman all of Derrick Rose's money right now with no further inquiry.
HomeRunBaker said:Plus a 4-game suspension.
I think you're looking for reddit.com/r/mensrights.CoRP said:I think that the allegation sounds serious enough to warrant awarding this woman all of Derrick Rose's money right now with no further inquiry.
ypioca said:Just gonna point something out here:
One of those things is not like the other. It seems to me that, if you refuse to even masturbate in front of him, you wouldn't continue to date the guy, after he wants to fuck your friends and you to fuck everyone else.
Blacken said:And you are why rape culture persists. Good job.
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Dude.
Lots of people are raped. Lots of people extort celebrities. Someone pointing out one of those things is worthy of mocking because they've both been said a million different times at this point. Expressing that knowledge, however, does not persist the rape culture. It just confirms that he knows what everyone else already knows.
The rush to, when a woman asserts she has been raped, attack her credibility with that "WHOA WHOA WHOA LOTS OF WOMEN LIE ABOUT RAPE [even though they statistically do not, and if anything, rape is hugely underreported]" bullshit, is exactly, and literally, one of the core problems of rape culture.Kenny F'ing Powers said:Lots of people are raped. Lots of people extort celebrities. Someone pointing out one of those things is worthy of mocking because they've both been said a million different times at this point. Expressing that knowledge, however, does not persist the rape culture. It just confirms that he knows what everyone else already knows.
CoRP said:Do women swoon when you arrive in your white armor to defend their honor?
You weren't kidding before about /r/mensrights, huh? I guess that when your worldview reduces women to sex objects, you think everybody else's worldview is to reduce women to sex objects.Grin&MartyBarret said:Yep, that's why men "defend the honor" of rape victims--to get them to swoon. You nailed it, and are definitely thinking about this in the right context.
Blacken said:And you are why rape culture persists. Good job.
drleather2001 said:
So it's her fault for not breaking up with him?
ypioca said:Ok, let's take a step back, here.
You do realize by "ghoul", I mean Rose, right?
Blacken said:You weren't kidding before about /r/mensrights, huh? I guess that when your worldview reduces women to sex objects, you think everybody else's worldview is to reduce women to sex objects.
I don't quite understand, and probably never will, why SoSH frowns upon the word "cunt" because it's anti-women, but "with no evidence I am going to concern-troll that she lied about being raped" is A-OK. One of these is a lot more damaging than the other.
Grin&MartyBarret said:
Just to be clear, because I'm not sure if you picked up on it, I was laying the sarcasm on pretty thick in my response to Corp.
No one is saying people should make a definitive statement of guilt or innocence at this point, just that the right course of action is to generally take the word of a woman who alleges she was raped seriously.ALiveH said:If you guys are actually interested in facts & stats & estimates, here are a couple links to get you started:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume6/j6_2_4.htm
Based on the numbers above & how little we know, it's prudent to withhold judgment on either guilt or innocence until more info comes out.
rodderick said:No one is saying people should make a definitive statement of guilt or innocence at this point, just that the right course of action is to generally take the word of a woman who alleges she was raped seriously.
It's just that when the first reaction someone has to a rape allegation is "I wouldn't trust her, women lie about rape all the time", or "she's probably looking for a pay day" it trivializes the issue. The argument isn't that you should take her word as fact and deem Rose guilty based solely on that.
It wasn't clear, no. You didn't mention Rose as a subject, which makes parsing Rose as the antecedent of that sentence kind of difficult. And, no, I don't need to relax; this is important, and it's worth getting up for. Our resident self-hating beta (or is "cuck" the new term? I don't keep up with their neologisms) should be ample evidence as to why.ypioca said:You do realize by "ghoul", I mean Rose, right? As in, "I don't doubt anyone being a rapist, after, you know, Bill Fucking Cosby turned out to be one". If that wasn't clear, my bad. You also need to relax a bit.
Just to be clear, because I'm not sure if you picked up on it, I was applauding your earlier redirection to /r/mensrights. It's a better place for the worse of our population.Grin&MartyBarret said:Just to be clear, because I'm not sure if you picked up on it, I was laying the sarcasm on pretty thick in my response to Corp.
Blacken said:It wasn't clear, no. You didn't mention Rose as a subject, which makes parsing Rose as the antecedent of that sentence kind of difficult. And, no, I don't need to relax; this is important, and it's worth getting up for. Our resident self-hating beta (or is "cuck" the new term? I don't keep up with their neologisms) should be ample evidence as to why.
I'm glad that you are simply participating in the destruction of the English language rather than rape culture, though. :buddy:
Just to be clear, because I'm not sure if you picked up on it, I was applauding your earlier redirection to /r/mensrights. It's a better place for the worse of our population.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:What, exactly, is "rape culture"? Its an actual thing? I don't know anyone, at least who admits it, that rape is acceptable under any circumstances.
It's a term for the social phenomenon where third parties and bystanders (predominantly but by no means exclusively men) further harm and render incredible the victims (predominantly but by no means exclusively women) of sexual violence in ways that are largely not done for the victims of other crimes.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:What, exactly, is "rape culture"? Its an actual thing? I don't know anyone, at least who admits it, that rape is acceptable under any circumstances.
Goddamnit, when I say I have made up my mind and want no further inquiry, I mean it.Marciano490 said:Or, people could just not have to make up their minds about things right away and wait for more facts to come out. It's like uncertainty leads to madness.
Blacken said:It wasn't clear, no. You didn't mention Rose as a subject, which makes parsing Rose as the antecedent of that sentence kind of difficult. And, no, I don't need to relax; this is important, and it's worth getting up for. Our resident self-hating beta (or is "cuck" the new term? I don't keep up with their neologisms) should be ample evidence as to why.
I'm glad that you are simply participating in the destruction of the English language rather than rape culture, though. :buddy:
Blacken said:It's a term for the social phenomenon where third parties and bystanders (predominantly but by no means exclusively men) further harm and render incredible the victims (predominantly but by no means exclusively women) of sexual violence in ways that are largely not done for the victims of other crimes.
"She was asking for it." The implication being that it was consensual.
"He wasn't really raped." The implication being that an instance of sexual violence wasn't actually sexual violence.
"She's just looking for money." The implication being that the victim is untrustworthy.
These sorts of comments and prevailing worldviews do a lot to silence rape victims and encourage perpetrators--who may not even think that what they're doing is sexual violence due to the conditioning of their environment--to continue doing what they're doing. It's pervasively bad.
(There are other analogous phenomena, to be sure--you see something similar in the discrediting of, for example, black folks when being attacked by police. "Obey the police and you won't get hurt." But it's much harder to wave away a Maglite across the back of the head than coerced consent.)
No, what you were saying was clear, it just wasn't what you wanted to say. Antecedents mean things. (This is why I didn't apologize for misunderstanding you, because I read what you wrote.)ypioca said:So, you read something that was, at best, unclear, but still decided I was talking about the woman, and proceeded to say I was representative of the rape culture.
Psst.Surely you don't need to relax. You're fighting a war here, on the baseball message board. Where all the rape culture folks hang out.
I'm in 'Murica. I speak 'Murican.Also, I'd like to see you respond in Portuguese.
Holy shit. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but that is some disturbing shit. The details provided (hopefully backed up by text messages) ring pretty true to me. With my infinite knowledge of how sexual deviants/rapists like to party.maufman said:Here's the complaint that was filed with the court.
Jesus. How is this only in civil court?maufman said:Here's the complaint that was filed with the court.
ypioca said:
So, you read something that was, at best, unclear, but still decided I was talking about the woman, and proceeded to say I was representative of the rape culture. Surely you don't need to relax. You're fighting a war here, on the baseball message board. Where all the rape culture folks hang out.
ypioca said:Just gonna point something out here:
One of those things is not like the other. It seems to me that, if you refuse to even masturbate in front of him, you wouldn't continue to date the guy, after he wants to fuck your friends and you to fuck everyone else.
Obviously, none of us know what happened, yet. This is TMZ, and the woman is seeking damages (and no charges have been filed), but these days, I don't doubt anyone being a ghoul. That just struck me as weird.
edit: clarification
Snodgrass'Muff said:
The problem isn't the line about the ghoul, it's the rest of your post.
The bolded text can all serve to minimize the validity of her claims. Why point out that the masturbation thing seems odd? Coercing her into any sexual act she is uncomfortable with is wrong and where she draws the line shouldn't matter. Drawing attention to it could easily be read as "this doesn't smell right because this detail is really odd."
Asking why she continued dating the guy is very easy to read as "She could have left. Staying is a form of consent." Ie... the onus is on her to stop the sexual assault, not on him to not commit it.
Pointing out that none of us REALLY know what happened yet is a classic rape culture tactic.
Pointing out that she's seeking damages and not pressing charges is tough to reconcile as anything other than trying to weaken her position. What that ignores is that it's often much harder to prove sexual assault as a criminal matter than it is as a civil one, and the path toward some semblance of justice can appear much easier through a civil court. Plus, if she didn't report any of the alleged rape incidents immediately and didn't have rape kits done, it becomes much more difficult to get charges filed, never mind a conviction from a jury. So the fact that she's seeking damages rather than a criminal conviction doesn't tell us nearly as much as you may think. Then there's the possibility that there are criminal charges coming, or the possibility that she tried to get criminal charges filed and wasn't able to get any traction for whatever reason.
You may not have meant any of those things in these ways, but the onus is on you to be more careful in what you write, not to blame others for not catching your meaning the first time around. Your post was poorly written and the ghoul line was the least problematic part of it. Instead of getting on Blacken for misreading your intent, maybe own up to it being poorly written and try rephrasing or just rescinding it.