Derrick White, On-Off wizard
- Thread starter benhogan
- Start date
At this point I’d rather he get the time off so he can relax and get his confidence/shot back to where it was.
He is shooting 40% from three over this last 10 games. I think his shot and confidence is just fine
Yeah if anything, he's missing too many inside, where his floater is usually more reliable.
To add onto this, both Lowe and Legler pretty much nailed the exact Eastern Conference roster.
Hollinger was hilariously off….which isn’t a surprise if you’ve read his work
Wasn't Hollinger just picking who he would have on the team? I don't think he was guessing what the coaches would do.
Jimmy Butler was an insanely stupid selection. Miami has been bad, Jimmy has missed a lot of time, and when he does play he's been far worse than last year (other than 3p%).
I’m hopeful that White and Trae Young will get named to replace Embiid and Randle.
If that happens, there will still be an argument that Markkanen or Fox should’ve gotten picked ahead of Steph Curry, and I’m sure someone besides White and Young will have cause to grumble about being passed over in favor of Bam (the only All-Star selection I’d describe as undeserving), but there would be no true snubs imo.
I know it’s purely anecdotal.. but the last few games he’s seemed to rush his shot.. as another poster said he’s been missing inside as well… and, to me, his body language has just been off. Don’t get me wrong.. love him on the Celts and we very much need him to play at his normal level to win a championship.
Looking at his last six games he’s gone 26-73 on fgs.. including against Indiana where he went 8-16. It may just be the homestand..everyone seems like they’re in a funk.
I'm in favor of rest for Derrick
BUT his confidence should get a BUMP if he is named to the All-Star team
White has relatively very little minutes under his belt - Tatum is 4 years younger and has played 50% more minutes than him. I say play him as much as possible.
Agreed, play DW more in Green. I've been in favor of the Celtics playing Derrick the 2nd most minutes for over two seasons now (I was pretty vocal about playing him more than Smart last season FWIW)
This was in reference to the All-Star game, which I think is an ego-stroking waste of time. BUT the players care about it, so maybe it gives Derrick a boost to his confidence if he makes it
Derrick White is shooting 68.8 EFG% (!) on pull-up jumpers over the last 15 games, best in the NBA during that span…
White’s shooting is devastating for opponents. Especially in the clutch where he has an 81.6 EFG% + a bunch of clutch defensive plays.
White’s shooting is devastating for opponents. Especially in the clutch where he has an 81.6 EFG% + a bunch of clutch defensive plays.
His offense is also rarely spectacular. He's like a good hitman. Or a noxious fart. Silent and deadly.
Biggest offseason move was trading Smart, so Derrick White could take all of the minutes. I think it was clear that for locker room reasons, Joe wasn't going to be able to bench Marcus and play White over him, so Brad taking that decision off his plate changed a TON of shit for this team.
My daughter sent me this post this am:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4UUCShrbIG/?igsh=MTE2ODgwcHN1dGJxeA==
The guy makes incredible plays on like a daily basis.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4UUCShrbIG/?igsh=MTE2ODgwcHN1dGJxeA==
The guy makes incredible plays on like a daily basis.
This is fair
White minutes were a clear upgrade over a gimpy Smart last season that CJM didn't make.
Don't blame Joe, not sure Smart would have reacted.
Basically, the Marcus Smart trade sprung more minutes/upgraded role for White, landed KP, and partially helped with the Jrue trade (along with Tillman/Springer additions)
At this point it's undeniable. Brad pulled a full-on HEIST trading Smart a year early.
There hasn't been one time this season where the Celtics have missed Marcus, who once again has struggled to stay healthy.
That play was so absurd that the broadcast kept replaying it over and over at random times. I think it was the last thing they played during their outro / postgame voice-over.
A lot of his blocks are just hustle and good timing on getting a hand above / behind the head. I say "just", obviously not everyone can pull them off, he has great agility, but there's nothing fundamentally extraordinary about most of them. But that one had some real "wait, WHAT WAS THAT" magic about it. Plus he was defending a fast break 1-on-2, I think.
Anyway, DW has had almost no nights off this year, other than the ones very early in the season with his new baby arriving. On the one hand he seems to be Gumby-like in his physical resilience; but on the other hand, he hits the floor hard after a layup attempt like 2-3 times per game. Just because he bounces right up doesn't mean it doesn't add up eventually. I hope we give him a few breaks over the next 3 weeks.
edit: also, from the comments on that post, White is second only to Jordan, and ahead of #3 Dwyane Wade, in blocks per game by a Guard.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-blocks-per-game-by-a-guard-nba-history
By far the most minutes of his career, but efficiency/production way up. There was never a reason to not be playing the shit out of him, except for team politics.....
This makes no sense. Smart was ultimately replaced by Jrue. What created more minutes for White was going from 3 guards that demanded 30 mpg to 2. In other words, the original Porzingis trade with Brogdon would’ve had the exact same impact on freeing up additional guard minutes. If you swap Smart for Jrue on this team we’d clearly be worse. Jrue is better than Smart, has always been, and has been a lot better this year. But White would still be seeing normal starter minutes on that counter-factual version of our roster instead of the reduced minutes he got because we had a 3-guard rotation last year.
That's fair, but I think it's also pretty clear that Smart was over-allocated minutes relative to White because of his standing on the team, even as White was clearly deserving of more.
Agreed to an extent, but "ultimately" is doing a ton of work there, isn't it?
Marcus Smart was traded in June, 2023. Leaving a backcourt of White/Brogdon/Pritchard
Brogdon was traded literally for Jrue almost 4 months later, in October. And that trade never happens if the Bucks don't trade away Jrue for Lillard.
So I'm not entirely sure how Smart was replaced by Jrue, when at the time, Jrue wasn't even a possibility. Either way, the Smart trade dropped us from 3 guards at 30mpg to 2, even before the Brogdon/Jrue trade, opening up minutes for White.
I understand what you're saying about the hypothetical Porzingis trade for Brogdon over Smart that didn't happen, but my point was that the most important move that did actually happen was getting rid of Smart and opening up those minutes for White (and frankly, I'd probably still fee the same way if the Brogdon/Jrue trade never happened, but of course, we have no way of knowing).
let's not underrate the extent to which the Smart trade was a bet on Pritchard's work ethic and skillset being able to contribute value for a lot less money. He'll never be DPOY but the team clearly thinks he's got a lot of value. So they might have been willing to let it ride with White / Brogdon starting, and Pritchard taking the rotational minutes, if Jrue never falls into our lap.
White is playing 4 more mpg than last year (not nothing), but clearly Pritchard was the major recipient of swapping 2 guards (Smart/Brogdon) for 1 (Holiday). He's averaging 7 more mpg, which really doesn't show the whole picture since he had so many DNPs last year. It's more impactful to point out that he's already played more than twice as many minutes this year as last year (and unless I'm forgetting something, he was healthy all year).
I don't know if there's a way to see who was closing games last year, but IIRC White was in the closing lineup more often than not. Except for rare occasions, it was Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford. Moving Smart and Brogdon didn't change much there, I don't think.
I don't know if there's a way to see who was closing games last year, but IIRC White was in the closing lineup more often than not. Except for rare occasions, it was Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford. Moving Smart and Brogdon didn't change much there, I don't think.
A bet that has without a doubt paid off in the regular season, Pritchard has definitely stepped up. We'll see how he fares in the playoffs, I'm not fully convinced.
I’m a Smart fan. I think people unfairly dogged him on this board. I was skeptical of that KP trade because I believed in Smart and I wanted him on the eventual championship winning team
But, ultimately, I think he had to go. His personality outgrew his productivity. Tatum and Brown (and Smart was Browns best friend on the team) couldn’t become leaders with Smart around.
But, ultimately, I think he had to go. His personality outgrew his productivity. Tatum and Brown (and Smart was Browns best friend on the team) couldn’t become leaders with Smart around.
White gained a few minutes but the real benefit was that he was given the ball. Smart and Brogdan were both ball dominant and getting rid of them gave White the ball. Jrue has been amazing because he was willing to step back and do a little of everything.
This was pretty much my exact call during the offseason. Wanted to trade Smart + draft capital for a center to get DW more minutes (it was clear coach was hesitant to play DW over Smart even though DW had obviously passed him) and shore up the frontline - Nurkic was who I was targeting so KP was a very pleasant surprise.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/the-summer-chopping-block-who-do-you-want-gone-and-why.39584/post-5587602
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/the-celtics-offseason.39525/post-5570909
When Smart got hurt last year there were times that White was basically the best player on the team..both on offense and defense. It was beyond obvious that White needed to have an expanded role... he played actual team defense and also doesn't seem to panic all that much on offense. White from Smart was an obvious upgrade... especially with the injuries and how much Smart loved to free lance on D late in games.
I'm sure we could go back and look at the games to get a better idea of what was happening at the end of games, but my recollection is that White wasn't really on the floor in the closing minutes until later in the season with regularity.
I just started looking at some quarterly box scores from March.
On March 5th, in a 2 point loss to the Knicks at home, White played 3 minutes, Smart played 9, and Grant Williams played 11:54, so seemed like Joe was going big for whatever reason (either way, White gets all of those without Smart) Brogdon didn't play in this game.
The next day on March 6th, a 4 point loss to the Cavs, White and Smart both played 9 minutes in the 4th. Brogdon played 11:55.
Next game was a blowout against the Blazers. White was the only starter who played in the 4th quarter and he played over 9 minutes.
Next game, on March 11th, a 9 point win in Atlanta. White played 7:22 in the 4th, Brogdon played 7:30 and Smart played 10:35
On year ago yesterday, in a loss at Houston, White 5:04, Smart played 6:56, and Brogdon played the entire 12:00 in the 4th
One year ago tomorrow, in a 2 point win at Dallas, White played 2:50 in the 4th, Smart played 9:10 and Brogdon played 8:52
So at this time last year, it seems pretty clear that while White was starting games, Brogdon/Smart were getting the big minutes down the stretch of the 4th.
A lot of starters /closing lineups were injury and match-up-driven during the entirety of last season
But don't let anyone dissuade you, White was clearly behind Smart in the pecking order (& MB in some matchups).
Derrick's health/ability to play got him a lot of his minutes. When everyone was available Joe was forced to sit White in Q4 quite a bit (in fairness to Joe it was kind of out of his hands)
Luckily Brad made an emotionally tough but intelligent basketball decision by trading Marcus (knowing that White would be elevated).
Credit where credit is due. Excellent posts by @ALiveH . You should post more
yeah if we had SoSH awards those would be contenders for Roster Construction Prophecy of the Year.
There was a stretch last year while Smart was hurt where White was the best player on the team or pretty close.. I feel like he was averaging over 20 a night and just making smart decision after smart decision.. but as soon as Marcus came back he was put back to his previous role.. which made zero sense. There were a ton of posts talking about why he wasn’t getting any minutes in the fourth while starting the game off well.. Stevens and JM had to have known that something had to change in the off-season.
Agreed. He was consistently dominant during that spell.
https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/derrick-white-earns-first-career-player-of-the-week-award
Can't find a good source for closing games, but in terms of crunch time minutes per game (using NBA.com's clutch time definition), White was 7th among the regulars last year, behind Brown/Smart/Horford/Tatum/Grant/Brogdon. This year he's tied for 1st, with Holiday and Brown. Pretty big change there.