End of an Era: Bill Belichick and Patriots to part ways

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,185
Newton
What an incredible press conference. Just on all fronts. The questions were good and the answers were better. I believed him, right down the line. The only time he was evasive was on the question whether Bill fought for his job, which was not a question he would ever have answered. Just a crazy throwback to a time when press conferences didn't seem like an absolute waste of time.

I know we say we're just like any other team now. And that's mostly true. But we do have a really good owner.
I completely agree. Kraft has had a reputation for a long time for being a really considerate, loyal and decent person but he’s largely (if understandably) kept himself out of the limelight. After all the drama of the last several years with the Patriots and the NFL as a whole, it was great to see him not just talk about being classy and loyal and a lover of the Patriots and football but for him to show it.

One of the sneaky best things I thought he said about the future, which he rightly said was to be delved into another day, was that the goal of the next coach was simply to win. Not win championships. Not build the next dynasty. But to win more games. To me that really sent a great signal that he’s not going to get mired in trying to replicate something that almost certainly can’t be.

For a guy who is admittedly a sentimental football fan, his showing made this one feel optimistic about the search ahead.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
3,987
Warwick, RI
I remember that and it didn’t surprise me that Camarillo was acting like an idiot.

I grew up in Foxboro and the local Jaycees used to hold a fundraiser pancake breakfast where various Pats would be the waiter for each table. One year we had Stephen “Brickhouse” Moore, who was quiet but very nice.

Camarillo was there and acted like a douche. Was a dick to kids who asked for autographs, made snide comments about people, etc.

Getting his ass kicked by Tippett was glorious.
Ironically, that summer I worked at the Lincoln Mall Papa Gino's and numerous Patriots came in after practice. The waitresses almost had a knife fight over who got to serve Doug Flutie. But somehow missed that fight just up the road.
 

Archer1979

shazowies
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
7,965
Right Here
My son came home from work last night. Unlike me, who admittedly didn't get much done, he hadn't yet heard the news, so I was the one who unknowingly let him know in a "sky is blue" type fashion. "So what do you think about Belichick getting let go?" "What???".

At any rate, he was bummed, but it was on the late side and I fell asleep without talking to him much about it. I asked my wife how he took the news about Belchick last night and she somewhat shrugged in a manner unbefitting the nature of the circumstance. "What is that... football?" Clearly I have work to do on the homefront.

But it got me thinking, my older boy was born in '97 and his two siblings in 2001. I was feeding my younger boy his bottle when Vinatieri kicked the oblong object between two yellow posts to win the Super Bowl in January of 2002. My daughter was happier than a clam in front of the TV set "watching" the game in her bouncy seat reacting more to the emotion of the gamecast than the actual game. My older boy, now working full-time with a kick ass commute was all of four years old upstairs watching Hey Arnold despite my futile attempts to extricate him and watch the end of the game with me (who thought that this was going to be a once in a lifetime experience... although it kind of was to me).

There's an entire generation (or two, three???) of Patriots fans that have absolutely no concept of a Patriots team not coached by Bill Belichick. It's one thing to compare him to Red Auerbach with the Celtics in terms of team achievements, but Belichick's tenure is going to stand as the regional record long after my eventual dirt nap.
 

Jinhocho

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2001
10,290
Durham, NC
Kraft hates BB, BB hates Jonathan, BB told Kraft Brady was cooked, etc. I'll grab some quotes.
I just used my brothers login it still works lol.

Brady sat next to Kraft as they watched early editions of the hallmarks of the 2023 Patriots: good defense, turnovers on offense, inability to jump to an early lead, which exposed even worse deficiencies. Everyone in the suite knew that Brady could have stepped in at halftime and been the best quarterback on the field. Over the years, those in Kraft's orbit have heard the owner "put down Belichick at every opportunity," a source close to Kraft said. This game was no different. Kraft's open mocking of Belichick -- a common line was "the great, intelligent man" -- was the worst-kept secret in New England. Although he denied saying it through a team spokesperson, Kraft used that line too many times to too many people for it to remain a secret.
Jonathan was talking to friends when one of them brought up New England's losing season.
"That guy's got to go," he said about Belichick. "He's done."
The losses, combined with the structure Kraft helped set up -- empowering Mayo and O'Brien -- subtly eroded Belichick's authority inside the building. The personnel and coaching staffs, intertwined for most of Belichick's run to avoid the type of back-stabbing common on other teams, started complaining about each other. In years past, Belichick would set a vision and leave it to the staff to execute it, leading to long discussions and creative solutions. That high-level collaborative roundtable was a thing of the past. People in the personnel department privately said that it was "amateur hour" with the coaches on game days; coaches complained that those on the personnel side were incapable of implementing Belichick's ideas. O'Brien, humbled by the inept offensive performance, was invested in finding a solution with Belichick. Mayo sometimes brought a baseball bat to meetings, swinging it around while the rest of the coaches had their heads down, projecting an attitude that he was separate from the rest, a favored son. Jonathan Kraft and the senior vice president of business affairs for the Kraft Group, Robyn Glaser, would chat with staff off to the side, asking why the head coach had made certain decisions. The subtext of the conversations was that life in Gillette Stadium might be different soon.
Jonathan Kraft was as involved as ever, hammering Belichick behind the scenes about personnel decisions, as if slowly building a case to remove the coach.
"He's been brutal," Belichick told a friend.
Ownership told confidants that they felt the game had passed Belichick by. Coaches and players started to rally around their coach in a way last seen during Spygate, angry that their coach's job status -- someone in professional and cultural thin air -- was a constant debate topic. The Patriots beat the Steelers and Broncos, two teams with more at stake than New England, on the road in December. It was clear the team hadn't quit. "I saw no quit in Bill Belichick," special teams star Matthew Slater said at the end of the season. "If you had sat in our team meetings this week, you would've thought we were getting ready for the AFC championship. "The Krafts should be ashamed of themselves," a Patriots assistant coach told a confidant. "
The statements were brief. Kraft and Belichick embraced at the end of it. A confidant of Kraft's who watched thought it was a virtuoso performance. "Robert's idea, throughout this process, was how can I look the best I can on this thing?" he said. "He got what he wanted. A hug at the end of the press conference. ... Completely amicable. It's an amazing performance because I don't think Bill has given Robert eye contact in a year and a half."
Worse than I thought for Kraft, even as they try not to be. It just reads like Bill is Bill, difficult and patient at the same time, just wanting to build and win etc. Definitely seems like the meddling had been much more than thought, Curran might have been closer to the truth than most gave credit, and just a sad way for it to end with Bill like a ronin headed out on his own.
 
Last edited:

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,858
Of course, we have no idea how much of this story is actually true. We have no idea how well-sourced Wickersham is, or how much of this is his own conjecture. It totally stands to reason that in the last few years there's been much more tension between Kraft and Belichick, given that the team isn't very good anymore, and as Kraft has always put it, he's a fan first and foremost, and he wants to win. Belichick's style is great when you win ("no days off!") but when you lose, it's got to be grating on everyone. And there's almost no way you can work with someone for 25 years and there not be tension. It is just intensified when things go south.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
[/QUOTE]
Over the years, those in Kraft's orbit have heard the owner "put down Belichick at every opportunity," a source close to Kraft said. This game was no different. Kraft's open mocking of Belichick -- a common line was "the great, intelligent man" -- was the worst-kept secret in New England. Although he denied saying it through a team spokesperson, Kraft used that line too many times to too many people for it to remain a secret.
So, lets say Kraft thought that BB was, after Hitler, the worst human being in the history of the Earth. So what? He kept him on until it was clear (clear enough to a lot of people, anyway) that things had to change. What people *think* is irrelevant. It's how -- or whether -- they put those thoughts into words or actions. Unlike, say, Jerry Jones, who was butt-hurt that the coach got all the credit. So he drove the coach out.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,868
Hingham, MA
"Bill had told me he couldn't play anymore," Kraft said privately afterward, "and then he goes out and wins the f---ing Super Bowl."

Belichick had sent clear signals internally for weeks that he thought he was coaching his final games for the Patriots. He also made it clear that he was ready to move on, telling confidants that Robert Kraft and his son, team president Jonathan Kraft, had eroded the culture he had built over two decades.

Belichick internally discussed trading Brady and talked openly to associates about wanting to win a Super Bowl without him.

A tricky dynamic ensued, with Kraft acting as a referee between the two alphas. Brady wanted to ease up his offseason workouts, which didn't bother Belichick and maybe even pleased him. Brady watched his old reps going to Garoppolo and jumped back in. Brady complained to Kraft about the offseason practice schedules, which led Kraft to start asking around the building. Word got back to Belichick, who wondered why Kraft was asking these questions.

"I'm going to do what I need to get my quarterback the right people," Kraft told a confidant.

Over the years, those in Kraft's orbit have heard the owner "put down Belichick at every opportunity," a source close to Kraft said. This game was no different. Kraft's open mocking of Belichick -- a common line was "the great, intelligent man" -- was the worst-kept secret in New England. Although he denied saying it through a team spokesperson, Kraft used that line too many times to too many people for it to remain a secret.

The relationship between Jonathan Kraft and Belichick, never strong, worsened. Jonathan is protective over his father's legacy and watched for years as Belichick refused to acknowledge him in the hallways and dismissed him as obsessed with optics. In late 2022, according to a first-hand account, which Jonathan denied this week through a team spokesperson, Jonathan was talking to friends when one of them brought up New England's losing season.

"That guy's got to go," he said about Belichick. "He's done."

Mayo sometimes brought a baseball bat to meetings, swinging it around while the rest of the coaches had their heads down, projecting an attitude that he was separate from the rest, a favored son.

Word leaked around the office that if Belichick were gone in 2024, football operations would be split between Glaser and Jonathan Kraft. Patriots coaches and executives thought that "the Krafts' meddling has got everyone spun around," a source on the personnel side said.

Local reporters asked Belichick and O'Brien whether Jones would be benched; instead, Belichick left him in games, even when it was clear the quarterback was losing confidence.

"A f--- you to Kraft," a confidant of Belichick's said.

As the season neared its halfway point -- and New England lost to Dallas and New Orleans in consecutive weeks by a combined score of 72-3 -- Jonathan Kraft was as involved as ever, hammering Belichick behind the scenes about personnel decisions, as if slowly building a case to remove the coach.

"He's been brutal," Belichick told a friend.


If Kraft came to him after the season, he would make it clear to confidants that his plan was to say that he had done his best with what ownership wanted, with Mayo, O'Brien and hiring outside on the scouting side. He wanted to force Kraft to decide.

"He's going to have to move first," Belichick said.


Before New England's 2002 Super Bowl against the Rams, Belichick refused to play along with the ritual player introductions and insisted on taking the field together, as a team, no stars, no egos, just a group of proud, talented men with a shared goal and a willingness to chase that goal with relentlessness. That became the norm. The central enemy of the Patriot Way was all those pesky human emotions: kindness, loyalty, friendship, nostalgia, ego. Rejecting those urges is what led to the success, and the inability to reject them is what proved the other 31 teams unable to replicate the blueprint.

"The Krafts should be ashamed of themselves," a Patriots assistant coach told a confidant.

But the building felt different. Belichick spent more time alone in his office. Over the decades he'd give assistant coaches projects toward the end of the season, preparing for the draft or free agency. He didn't do that this year.

In one staff meeting, O'Brien got angry with Belichick during a discussion about running plays. He stormed out. The rest of the coaches were quiet, unsure of what to do. Belichick just let it go, knowing it all would be over soon.

A confidant of Kraft's who watched thought it was a virtuoso performance. "Robert's idea, throughout this process, was how can I look the best I can on this thing?" he said. "He got what he wanted. A hug at the end of the press conference. ... Completely amicable. It's an amazing performance because I don't think Bill has given Robert eye contact in a year and a half."

The Patriot Way was always Team, Teammate, Self, until it wasn't.

Belichick made clear in the news conference with Kraft that he isn't done coaching, at least not until he passes Don Shula.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,868
Hingham, MA
There are so many semi-truths in there. E.g. the Don Shula comment at the end. BB never said anything about wanting to continue coaching to pass Shula.

Yes, BB left Jones in games as a fuck you to Kraft. Except when he pulled him from MULTIPLE CONSECUTIVE GAMES early in the season!

WTF does that Mayo passage even mean??

BB was the one who forced the team into being introduced as a team in SB36?!?!?!

Wickersham. Fucking. Sucks.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,868
Hingham, MA
Personal vendetta list for me. God I would love to kick any of those guys in the balls.

1) Roger Goodell
2) Ted Wells
3) Seth Wickersham
4) Jeff Pash
5) Mike Kensil
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,852
I get that people are interested in the inner workings of the relationship between (the) Kraft(s) and BB however the reason any of these anecdotes are out there/being fed to Wickersham is that people have axes to grind.

This piece aside, with the benefit of a full day as well as some of the more objective reporting around it, this really does feel like a good point for a fresh start for everyone.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
There are so many semi-truths in there. E.g. the Don Shula comment at the end. BB never said anything about wanting to continue coaching to pass Shula.

Yes, BB left Jones in games as a fuck you to Kraft. Except when he pulled him from MULTIPLE CONSECUTIVE GAMES early in the season!

WTF does that Mayo passage even mean??

BB was the one who forced the team into being introduced as a team in SB36?!?!?!

Wickersham. Fucking. Sucks.
Even if everything is true, so what? While there's disagreement on whether BB should've stayed, there's little disagreement that some things have to change. If the team just won the SB and this happened that would be one thing. But who gives a shit, whether (or which) Kraft said' "BB sucks." Even if they were all deeply in love with each other, the result is likely the same. It was time. (Or at least its difficult to argue that "it's time" was not a reasonable conclusion.)

There's quite an irony in Wickersham's use of "confidant."
 

CR67dream

blue devils forevah!
Dope
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
7,590
I'm going home
This piece aside, with the benefit of a full day as well as some of the more objective reporting around it, this really does feel like a good point for a fresh start for everyone.
Yeah, I think wherever anyone stood on the issue, or feels about it emotionally, It would be hard to effectively argue otherwise.
 

54thMA

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2012
10,170
Westwood MA
I just used my brothers login it still works lol.











Worse than I thought for Kraft, even as they try not to be. It just reads like Bill is Bill, difficult and patient at the same time, just wanting to build and win etc. Definitely seems like the meddling had been much more than thought, Curran might have been closer to the truth than most gave credit, and just a sad way for it to end with Bill like a ronin headed out on his own.
So basically, Jonathan hated Belichick.

And the sky is blue and water is wet.

Wow, shocking, never saw that one coming.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
Jonathan denied this week through a team spokesperson, Jonathan was talking to friends when one of them brought up New England's losing season.

"That guy's got to go," he said about Belichick. "He's done."
Until Jon-boy comes to me personally and denies it, I'm assuming he was talking about his old man, not BB.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
47,133
Hartford, CT
Jonathan on the warpath, I could never have envisioned this.

The relationship between Bill and Bob and, to a greater extent, Jonathan has never been close/warm. All this again illustrates to me is, yeah, maybe this breakup is best, and holy hell no wonder organizational structures generally falter sooner rather than later in the NFL.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2015
5,454
I assume you mean because Jonathan will soon be in charge and this doesn't exactly give you confidence in his ownership?
Partly this, and all the stuff (hopefully lies) about undercutting Belichick over the past couple of years. And the stuff about Mayo behaving as the chosen one, which doesn't really seem to indicate "great leader of men" to me. But yeah naming Mayo without first naming a GM has me queasy about what Jonathon might be up to.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
Partly this, and all the stuff (hopefully lies) about undercutting Belichick over the past couple of years. And the stuff about Mayo behaving as the chosen one, which doesn't really seem to indicate "great leader of men" to me. But yeah naming Mayo without first naming a GM has me queasy about what Jonathon might be up to.
Seems like, to many writers, "acted like the chosen one" has replaced "arrogant", which, in turn, replaced "uppity."
 

SemperFidelisSox

Member
SoSH Member
May 25, 2008
31,493
Boston, MA
I think the lesson Robert and Jonathan took away from all of this is that they will never give so much power to one individual ever again. I’m not saying it was wrong to give it all to Bill, the results speak for themselves. Just that the Krafts may not be interested in that kind of power structure from now on.
 

Hoya81

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 3, 2010
8,497
Wickersham is frustrating because his pieces are op-eds disguised as hard journalism. The Mayo story has one fact (he brought a bat to a meeting) and he pushes a narrative unsupported by anything else (Mayo was protected by the Krafts and could do anything).
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2015
5,454
Seems like, to many writers, "acted like the chosen one" has replaced "arrogant", which, in turn, replaced "uppity."
You think Wickersham is dog whistling? (Not defending Wickersham at all. And my sense is also that the article is likely mostly bullshit - and I sincerely hope it is. But that comment didn't strike me at all the same way as if he had written, "uppity".)
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,868
Hingham, MA
Wickersham is frustrating because his pieces are op-eds disguised as hard journalism. The Mayo story has one fact (he brought a bat to a meeting) and he pushes a narrative unsupported by anything else (Mayo was protected by the Krafts and could do anything).
Nailed it.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
You think Wickersham is dog whistling? (Not defending Wickersham at all. And my sense is also that the article is likely mostly bullshit - and I sincerely hope it is. But that comment didn't strike me at all the same way as if he had written, "uppity".)
Maybe not him, but maybe his sources.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
6,312
from the wilds of western ma
This is wholly unsurprising. There’s no way this was ending with the feel good of yesterday, without someone writing “the inside story “ of really happened. They’ll all likely contain some kernels of truth(a 24 year business relationship, in a highly competitive industry, has become strained), and a shit load of speculation, hyperbole, and score settling. I’d take them all with many grains of salt.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
This is wholly unsurprising. There’s no way this was ending with the feel good of yesterday, without someone writing “the inside story “ of really happened. They’ll all likely contain some kernels of truth(a 24 year business relationship, in a highly competitive industry, has become strained), and a shit load of speculation, hyperbole, and score settling. I’d take them all with many grains of salt.
Right. There's a reason Wickersham hasn't written the "inside story" of the Kliff Kingsbury years in AZ. Or the Frank Reich in Carolina. Not a lot of dirt to expose in Nic Cage's 4-day marriage. But I suspect Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson have had a few spats that would look good in print.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,560
Right. There's a reason Wickersham hasn't written the "inside story" of the Kliff Kingsbury years in AZ. Or the Frank Reich in Carolina. Not a lot of dirt to expose in Nic Cage's 4-day marriage. But I suspect Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson have had a few spats that would look good in print.
also its the Pats, so any "scandalous" story even if its all bullshit will get clicks.... Nobody would really give. a shit about AZ...
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,304
Partly this, and all the stuff (hopefully lies) about undercutting Belichick over the past couple of years. And the stuff about Mayo behaving as the chosen one, which doesn't really seem to indicate "great leader of men" to me. But yeah naming Mayo without first naming a GM has me queasy about what Jonathon might be up to.
Wickersham basically cited and repeated Bedard’s nonsense regarding Mayo. Nothing “new” on that front other than some anonymous assistant deep down the org chart has an axe to grind.

As for the rest of the article, I’m sure there have been a number of unreported blowups between Kraft, BB, and various assistants over the course of 24 years. The problem with articles like this is that they give one the impression the house is on fire when in reality it’s just the ordinary day-to-day life in the NFL.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
12,362
None of this seems surprising. Kraft chose Belichick over Brady, then watched Brady win a Super Bowl while the Pats became mediocre and irrelevant. He gave BB what he wanted the last couple years, and it didn’t work out. This ending was inevitable.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,124
Chelmsford, MA
Across the entire board really it’s like a competition to get behind the teams and shout down anything negative. It’s really strange. Wickersham undoubtedly has a narrative arc there but he’s using quotes left and right and murmurs of a lot of this stuff has been out there. I really doubt he’s making this stuff up wholesale and it’s incredible to me that so many of you are so dismissive of it all
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,490
Across the entire board really it’s like a competition to get behind the teams and shout down anything negative. It’s really strange. Wickersham undoubtedly has a narrative arc there but he’s using quotes left and right and murmurs of a lot of this stuff has been out there. I really doubt he’s making this stuff up wholesale and it’s incredible to me that so many of you are so dismissive of it all
Quoting anonymous sources means I'm left to trust his journalistic integrity.

I do not trust Wickershams journalistic integrity.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
Across the entire board really it’s like a competition to get behind the teams and shout down anything negative. It’s really strange. Wickersham undoubtedly has a narrative arc there but he’s using quotes left and right and murmurs of a lot of this stuff has been out there. I really doubt he’s making this stuff up wholesale and it’s incredible to me that so many of you are so dismissive of it all
I dont think the Wickershams of the word actually make shit up. There's always a source out there. So, I'm not especially dismsissive of its existence. I'm dismissive of its relevance. If the on-field results were the same, but the Krafts and BB were lounging nude together feeding each other grapes for the last 3 years, we'd be in the same spot. Time for a change.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,304
Across the entire board really it’s like a competition to get behind the teams and shout down anything negative. It’s really strange. Wickersham undoubtedly has a narrative arc there but he’s using quotes left and right and murmurs of a lot of this stuff has been out there. I really doubt he’s making this stuff up wholesale and it’s incredible to me that so many of you are so dismissive of it all
Not saying it’s made up (although I think Bedard made up the Mayo story). Just questioning how out of the ordinary some of this stuff is. Seems like stuff that happens (coach storming out of a meeting; someone not making eye contact one day). What is out of the ordinary is that BB and Kraft made it work for 24 years.

And some of it is shit stirring. Why would Bill mention Mayo’s name in his press conference? Mayo wasn’t named coach yet.

I’ll just conclude that Bill had very good reasons for not trusting the media, and consequently keeping the public interaction with the media at a certain distance.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,663
Not saying it’s made up (although I think Bedard made up the Mayo story). Just questioning how out of the ordinary some of this stuff is. Seems like stuff that happens (coach storming out of a meeting; someone not making eye contact one day). What is out of the ordinary is that BB and Kraft made it work for 24 years.

And some of it is shit stirring. Why would Bill mention Mayo’s name in his press conference? Mayo wasn’t named coach yet.

I’ll just conclude that Bill had very good reasons for not trusting the media, and consequently keeping the public interaction with the media at a certain distance.
He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that the coaches who blow smoke up their asses do. It's a trade BB was willing to make.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,036
Across the entire board really it’s like a competition to get behind the teams and shout down anything negative. It’s really strange. Wickersham undoubtedly has a narrative arc there but he’s using quotes left and right and murmurs of a lot of this stuff has been out there. I really doubt he’s making this stuff up wholesale and it’s incredible to me that so many of you are so dismissive of it all
I don't think this particular subforum is anything like the main board (where anything remotely negative about the Sox has certain posters flailing), people discuss some of the negatives, especially discussing where they think the leaks came from.

Wickersham generally gets a different response because he has no integrity and has a long history of running negative stories with wildly exaggerated or outright wrong facts/quotes in them. He's never getting any benefit of the doubt because he's proven he doesn't deserve it.
 

NickEsasky

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2001
9,218
I think a lot of the Wickersham piece is spin and slant from the various sources. But I do think it's funny that when he writes a piece like this about another team we lap it up but if it's the Patriots we can't shout it down hard and fast enough.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
12,362
What’s the big deal though? The three principles in the Patriots story kind of all got sick of each other over the course of two incredible decades for various reasons. It doesn’t diminish anything, it just makes it more incredible that it lasted for as long as it did.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,858
What’s the big deal though? The three principles in the Patriots story kind of all got sick of each other over the course of two incredible decades for various reasons. It doesn’t diminish anything, it just makes it more incredible that it lasted for as long as it did.
Yep if anything this is a massive credit to them. What they did was remarkable and unprecedented. To hold this organization together over all that time, given the inevitable tension (it’s like… omg there was tension???? As if that’s not perfectly normal and expected), and being so successful all the while, is pretty amazing. Kudos to Bill and the Krafts, and Brady too, who could have made it very uncomfortable and impossible if he had been more demanding.