On the bright side EEI had a good interview with Jake Peavy, so at least there was an alternative.
Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time
- Thread starter HomeBrew1901
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Felger yesterday made the argument that Peavy mustn't be that good since Detroit was so willing to send him to the Red Sox, one of their likely playoff opponents.
That was the point felger was making. Someone applied that theory on his boy Iglesias and he countered with that.
After watching peavy tonight I wonder if he still thinks he is the same as dempster? Though I'm assuming he is watching the game
After watching peavy tonight I wonder if he still thinks he is the same as dempster? Though I'm assuming he is watching the game
Mazz will claim that since it was the D'backs, Peavy faced an inferior opponent and this is in no way representative of the caliber of opponent Peavy will face down the stretch. Still no better than a #4 starter, which the Sox have plenty of. Furthermore, Breslow stunk, Beato coughed up the lead last night, and it's really the bullpen that is springing leaks. Sox did not address.
Felger will babble about the Gold Glove SS that got away and is now hitting for power in Detroit. Detroit has to be the odds on favorite now to win the AL pennant thanks to the Red Sox.
Felger will babble about the Gold Glove SS that got away and is now hitting for power in Detroit. Detroit has to be the odds on favorite now to win the AL pennant thanks to the Red Sox.
Harry Hooper said:
Of course if the Tigers thought he was terrible, they could have opted to keep him in the division, where the played/play the White Sox 12 times after the day of the trade.
Not to mention next year.
Well, you guys seem to care about Felgers opinion, which in the radio game is 90% of the battle. As I mentioned several times, I listened to Glen Ordway for the better part of a decade and I couldn't tell you one single thing he felt strongly about one way or another. Other than Belichick and the Pats were awesome.
I dunno, I've listened and it doesn't seem all that reasonable to me. Are you upset that his opinion is that the move is bad for the Sox or that he ALWAYS says any move the Sox make is bad?
He's mouthed off about a ton of moves/players in this town, and a lot of time he's turned out "right". Or at least right in the sense that the team got rid of Seguin, Moss turned bad in the end, ect ect.
Now Mazz........I don't know what his thing is. He craps all over the team during one show then completely softens his stance in another show. He's not genuine and it shows. At least, for good or bad, right or wrong, I think Felger believes everything he says. Most times passionately. Its why I have no problem with him SHITTING all over the NBA even if its my favorite sport and disagree with almost everything he says on the subject.
I dunno, I've listened and it doesn't seem all that reasonable to me. Are you upset that his opinion is that the move is bad for the Sox or that he ALWAYS says any move the Sox make is bad?
He's mouthed off about a ton of moves/players in this town, and a lot of time he's turned out "right". Or at least right in the sense that the team got rid of Seguin, Moss turned bad in the end, ect ect.
Now Mazz........I don't know what his thing is. He craps all over the team during one show then completely softens his stance in another show. He's not genuine and it shows. At least, for good or bad, right or wrong, I think Felger believes everything he says. Most times passionately. Its why I have no problem with him SHITTING all over the NBA even if its my favorite sport and disagree with almost everything he says on the subject.
On last week's shows one problem was that Felger constantly undersold the value of Peavy, oversold the value of Iglesias, and refused to discuss at any depth either player's 2013 performance as a basis for his opinion. He just doesn't like Peavy, apparently because he wasn't won a Cy Young since 2007, and he loves Iglesias while failing to acknowledge that his offensive production has been falling off a steep cliff lately. Both he and Mazz also pretended that adding another starter did not allow Workman (as well as other young arms) to join the bullpen. It was Mustard & Johnson-level stupidity and foolishness. There are plenty of reasons to legitimately criticize this or any other trade, but I didn't hear any of those reasons on last week's shows.Rocco Graziosa said:
It's not that he likes Iglesias and doesn't like Peavy, its that he likes the guy they traded away and doesn't like the guy they got. The names may change but the rant remains the same.Dotrat said:
People care because he used to be entertaining but at this point its gone way over the top, certainly for me.
No one cares what Mazz thinks because he hasn't had an original thought in years.
Rocco, because his Sox takes over the last week seem incredibly disingenuous at best. It's okay to not like this trade, it's a baseball trade rarely are there any slam dunk trades. But every time someone refutes your take, you change the argument. Gasper was on Friday afternoon and Felger asked him what he thought of the trade, Gasper liked it because of many of the reasons people have stated here (Iglesias fell out favor with the organization, Peavy is a good arm, there are a few SS prospects with higher ceilings than Iglesias, Cherrington got out at the precise time, etc) and Felger is like, "Yeah, well it seems like a trade the Red Sox are going to regret." How the hell are you going to argue that?
Honestly, the trade reminds me of the Adam Everett/Carl Everett deal of early last decade. Carl did great for the Red Sox for a half season and then was a complete disaster and Adam started for the Astros and bounced around the majors for the better part of a decade as a solid gloveman/no hit SS. I don't think that I've ever heard anyone bemoan the loss of Adam Everett. And I think the same thing is true about Iglesias. You make that argument to Felger and then he moves the goalposts again, "Well, Jake Peavy isn't 2007 Jake Peavy and he's not a number one starter." You can't win and it's just a never-ending circle jerk of arguing.
And never mind the fact that Felger would have spent the last part of the week destroying the Red Sox had they sat on their hands and did nothing. Killed them, just like he did with the Bruins when they got Jagr at their deadline, "Derrrr, they should have done more!". And like he did with the Celtics when they did nothing this past year "Trader Danny is a joke!" And like he did with the Pats when they got Talib, "I don't know. He's not a good guy."
It seems that the last two years anything the Sox and Celts do is terrible and anything the Pats and B's do are just okay. Being a contrarian is fine when you pick your spots, but being a straight-up contrarian is much like having zero opinion in the guise of having an opinion. You're not thinking the moves through, you're just knee-jerking your thoughts as soon as something is done. To use a phrase, it's Orwayian and this knee-jerk reactions (though the other way with the Celts, Pats and Sox) are what got people turned off of EEI and the Big Show in general. If Felger doesn't watch it, the same thing is going to happen to him.
And as far as Seguin and Moss; Felger was pretty much wrong on Moss. HIs last year shit went south but that negate the years that he was a superstar here? I would take 10 weeks of a petulant Moss for the superstar years he was here, man he was the best receiver I've ever seen and he was awesome to watch. As far as Seguin what has Felger said about him that he's right about? He didn't really start the whole, "The Bruins are getting sick of Seguin's crap" until about a week before the trade and even then it was couched in such bullshit phrases, "Don't be surprised if ...", "I wouldn't be shocked if ..." and even Felger admitted that he was surprised about the trade. Plus, Seguin hasn't played a game yet for the Stars. He could be a 100-point guy next year and for ten years in a row. Let's not give Felger a check mark for that one.
Edit: reading this over, it may seem that I don't like Felger, which isn't true. When he's on and he's not just pushing buttons, there's no one better on Boston radio. But when he's in the middle of the summer dog days and he's on cruise control, he's just as bad as everyone else. And unfortunately he doesn't have a partner that will get him back on track. Mazz is completely useless.
Byrdbrain said:
Mazz claims Ellsbury isn't swinging as hard as he can because he is trying to protect his health heading into free agency. Does that count as an original thought?
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I don't see Felger as a "contrarian" but rather an uber cynic. He plays on the radio very similar to Howard Stern (a fav of mine) in that he really hates a lot of things, but he's pretty damn genuine about it. Your right that eventually it could backfire on him, but not because he was the same as The Big Show in reverse, but because people might tire of his genuine negativity.
I for one will probably never tire of that angle. I'll listen to anyone rant about anything if I think its genuine. (for instance I will often listen to his negative NBA rants, and I probably feel the exact opposite of everything that comes out of his mouth. But its entertaining to me the way he presents it) And if its not something I'm particularly interested in I just don't listen that day.
Good post though. Some food for thought there.
I hope people don't think Felger turned on Moss just before things went south and he got traded. I listened to his ESPNBoston show back in the day regularly, and he was calling Moss a dog from the day they traded for him. Then when they broke every record in existence in the process of going 16-0 the discussion turned to how Moss always "turtles" in the playoffs and how he could be shut down easily if someone would just jam him at the line of scrimmage (Mike Felger, smarter than 31 NFL teams). The fact that they got what, 3-4 great years out of him and then traded him is not in any way, shape or form a validation of Mike Felger.
Today's theme: People are saying good things about the Patriots new receivers, so obviously, THEY SUCK!
"We're being sold on these guys. I'm skeptical."
Shocker.
"We're being sold on these guys. I'm skeptical."
Shocker.
I think one of the main issues now is also that they tend to focus on things that happen between games/season just as much as what actually happens. Today is a prime example. We haven't even played a preseason game and they're bitching about how the team is going about touting its new receivers. Who cares? If they want to break down performance and decisions about keeping players, that's one thing, but they're obsessed with all of the spin and everything at this point. It feels like I'm listening to TMZ for sports.
Felger explained this to a caller last week, he likes (for lack of a better word) predicting and debating those predictions. To him it's a sport, if Felger has more predictions right at the end of the year, then Scoreboard, he won. Felger doesn't like talking about X's and O's (which is okay, because a lot of X and O talk gets boring) but at some point you have to discuss the games, right? Otherwise you're just talking about the transaction box and police blotter.
As far winning what, I don't know. Biggest Brain in Boston Sports Media? Even if there was a BBiBSM Cup, all of Felger's predictions are tinged with grey areas and stipulations. And who has the time to chronicle all of the stuff he says, anyway? Like most people, Felger only brings up the Scoreboard when he's "right". And I don't consider him right about Randy Moss, Felger said Moss would wear out his welcome in NE by the end of his first year. Didn't even remotely come close to happening. So he can take that one off his scoreboard.
The strange thing to me is that Felger keeps bringing up Albert Haynesworth as this monumental bust, like Belichick was designing his entire defense around the guy. Haynesworth played six games for the Pats and was cut and I think Washington was on the hook for most of his salary. Haynesworth is a jerk, but the Patriots aren't the only team in pro sports history to bring in a reclamation project that didn't work out. But Felger and Mazz hold on to this transaction like grim death and just bitch about it like it sunk the 2011 season.
As far winning what, I don't know. Biggest Brain in Boston Sports Media? Even if there was a BBiBSM Cup, all of Felger's predictions are tinged with grey areas and stipulations. And who has the time to chronicle all of the stuff he says, anyway? Like most people, Felger only brings up the Scoreboard when he's "right". And I don't consider him right about Randy Moss, Felger said Moss would wear out his welcome in NE by the end of his first year. Didn't even remotely come close to happening. So he can take that one off his scoreboard.
The strange thing to me is that Felger keeps bringing up Albert Haynesworth as this monumental bust, like Belichick was designing his entire defense around the guy. Haynesworth played six games for the Pats and was cut and I think Washington was on the hook for most of his salary. Haynesworth is a jerk, but the Patriots aren't the only team in pro sports history to bring in a reclamation project that didn't work out. But Felger and Mazz hold on to this transaction like grim death and just bitch about it like it sunk the 2011 season.
Today is another good example of how useless Beetle has become since the beginning of the year. He brings nothing to the table anymore. Here was a good opportunity to refute F&M on their pile-on against the new receivers. In the past, he would have. Today? Nothing. I feel like the fill-in guys the past two weeks had way more to say than Bertrand has since he's been back.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
See I don't really give a shit if he's right. I just like hearing someone with convictions talk about things. I don't agree with a lot of what Howard Stern thinks, especially since he's become a celebrity, but I enjoy listening to him rant about anything.
To each his own I guess. When something goes down in Boston Sports, one of the things that crosses my mind is...."I wonder what Felger thinks about this". I think the ratings show there are many people like me. I'm sure there are a ton of people who, when something goes down in Boston Sports thinks "I wonder what that moron asshole Felger thinks about this", which is fine and its a large part of Stern's audience as well.
I could listen to Felger rant about Randy Moss, Brett Favre or airlines all day long. But thats me.
Edit: Just like I could listen to Stern rant about the FCC, Don Imus, or Jay Leno.
Double Edit: On the flip side, I don't give a flying fuck what Tony Mazzerati thinks about anything.
I'll give Rocco some support, I feel exactly the same way. I know he's going to have a strong opinion and I know he's going to represent it relatively well. I've accepted that these guys aren't going to make stats driven arguments the way someone would here, so they're doing gut reaction and "analysis" and they'll occasionally bring up a stat that might support their thesis. I find Felger's opinions, even when I disagree with them, interesting.
But you guys are selling him way short on Moss. The day he was traded he had the team going to the super bowl. This is a day the collective Boston media completely shit itself with terror, and he was on the radio immediately saying it was going to be alright, they'd be better. Now maybe this is a case of being lucky rather than good, but he was extremely consistent in his opinion of Moss, and it's hard to say he was completely wrong.
But you guys are selling him way short on Moss. The day he was traded he had the team going to the super bowl. This is a day the collective Boston media completely shit itself with terror, and he was on the radio immediately saying it was going to be alright, they'd be better. Now maybe this is a case of being lucky rather than good, but he was extremely consistent in his opinion of Moss, and it's hard to say he was completely wrong.
Except for the part where Moss gave the Patriots two of the greatest seasons ever produced by a WR when Felger predicted he would be cut in training camp of his first season in NE.teddykgb said:
I'm not asking the guy to do SABR Radio because that would be boring, but not every decision made by all four teams is wrong. And I guess Rocco likes that (which is cool) but he loses a ton of credibility with me if he's just going to keep on saying that the Pats are arrogant, the Sox are dumb, the Celts are run by green teamers and the Bruins coddle their players too much.
At what point do you look at the last decade and a half and say, "these guys sorta know what they're doing"? Maybe that makes for boring radio, but honesty goes a long way when you have a daily dialogue. And I think that's what you're missing when you compare Stern to Felger, Rocco. Stern was legitimately pissed off at Imus or the FCC or Leno; Felger is doing schtick. He's acting "pissed" because "that's his thing". You are right, when he has a legitimate rant, there's no one better. But the Iglesias stuff is Morning Zoo radio.
At what point do you look at the last decade and a half and say, "these guys sorta know what they're doing"? Maybe that makes for boring radio, but honesty goes a long way when you have a daily dialogue. And I think that's what you're missing when you compare Stern to Felger, Rocco. Stern was legitimately pissed off at Imus or the FCC or Leno; Felger is doing schtick. He's acting "pissed" because "that's his thing". You are right, when he has a legitimate rant, there's no one better. But the Iglesias stuff is Morning Zoo radio.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
And as are 75% of Stern's rants on Baba Booey. I mean both guys have 5 hours of radio a day to fill.
I listen because I find Felger, for the most part, genuine and passionate. He doesn't like the Patriots or the NBA. He never will. Ever. (and I think thats 1000% genuine) Just like Stern will never like the FCC or Don Imus.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Edit: My guess is baseball is his "schtick". I don't think he cares much one way or another. He'll take a topic, give an opinion, stick to it, and thats that. Theoretically you have Tony Mazz there to fill this void. As we all know he's not getting the job done there.
Double Edit: You guys do know that Mike Felger is a Packer and Bucks fan right? I assume thats not a secret around here.
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Yeah, he talks about Jack Sikma all the time. And that's one of the reasons why he doesn't like Moss (the moon incident). He's also a huge Brewers fan too, I believe.
I wonder if the Wiggy experiment is going to end soon. Increasingly, Felger can't hide his disdain for Wiggy's "takes," to the point where its almost a reflex action for Felger to openly express his annoyance at everything that comes out of Wiggins' mouth. The chemistry there is really poor.
Every summer we seem to have the same exact debate that Rocco and JMOH are having right now and there is plenty of blame to go around.
I'm starting to think that a big part of the issue with the show now is that Felger has worn down both Mazz and Beetle to the point where neither of them even bothers to try anymore either out of laziness where they are more than content with letting Felger do all the heavy lifting with his 10 pages of show notes or just don't want to deal with his personality anymore.
I'm starting to think that a big part of the issue with the show now is that Felger has worn down both Mazz and Beetle to the point where neither of them even bothers to try anymore either out of laziness where they are more than content with letting Felger do all the heavy lifting with his 10 pages of show notes or just don't want to deal with his personality anymore.
Beetle will get into it when he's co-hosting while Mazz is out. I wonder if the regular set-up keeps him too busy doing other stuff.HomeBrew1901 said:
It didn't used to, even from the 3rd chair he used to challenge Felger but he's been doing it less and less lately.steveluck7 said:
I know we all bitch about Mazz too but he's actually pretty good on the Baseball Show after F&M.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
Strongly disagree. Lowest common denominator is the opposite - Limbaugh-style dittoheads who agree with 100% of what's being said. Many intelligent people just like hearing other intelligent people articulate, with passion and intelligence, a point of view. It's the same reason I like certain comedians - I don't really agree with their "takes" on life, but if they have sharp point of view and they're funny, it's easy to enjoy them. I'd say it's the smarter end of the spectrum that doesn't need to "side" with an opinion to be entertained or enlightened.
HomeBrew1901 said:
You're quite possibly correct. It does seem fairly regular for him to miss a conversation only to chime in " I wasnt paying attention" or something similar. If you ever watch the simulcast, you'll often see him sans headphones doing something on the computerHomeBrew1901 said:
I think one of the problems with Felger in Boston, is that for whatever reason he's never been presented/promoted as to what he really is. Some dude from Wisconsin who likes the Packers, Bucks, and Brewers. WFAN never for one second hid the fact that Mike Russo was a Giants fan who HATED the Yankees. It allowed the audience to understand where he was coming from.
Mike Felger isn't giving the audience a fair and balanced opinion on the Patriots. He fucking HATES them. And why wouldn't he..........90% of America hates the Patriots. Mike Felger grew up a Milwaukee Bucks fan in the 80's. I would give up on the NBA if had to go through that. Felger did. When Mike Felger goes home on Sunday he's rooting for the Patriots to lose. Badly. And for the Packers to win. He's a fanatic. (or "fan")
Does knowing this expose the man behind the curtain? Certainly not for me, its why I friggin like the show.
Mike Felger isn't giving the audience a fair and balanced opinion on the Patriots. He fucking HATES them. And why wouldn't he..........90% of America hates the Patriots. Mike Felger grew up a Milwaukee Bucks fan in the 80's. I would give up on the NBA if had to go through that. Felger did. When Mike Felger goes home on Sunday he's rooting for the Patriots to lose. Badly. And for the Packers to win. He's a fanatic. (or "fan")
Does knowing this expose the man behind the curtain? Certainly not for me, its why I friggin like the show.
I don't need Felger to like the local teams, that is not the issue for me at all.
I'm frustrated with Felger the same way people in the Simmons thread get frustrated with Simmons, because he's capable of a lot more. His takes used to be fresh and while i didnt always agree with him I thought he was fair and was willing to admit he was wrong, or better yet, change his view of things as he understood more about the situation.
Now his "hot takes" are predictable because 90% of the time they are negative. So while I don't need a guy who is a fanboy,I also don't need to listen to predictable negative rants, particularly when they are oftentimes illogical and not supported by facts. Felger is better than that, or at least he used to be.
I'm frustrated with Felger the same way people in the Simmons thread get frustrated with Simmons, because he's capable of a lot more. His takes used to be fresh and while i didnt always agree with him I thought he was fair and was willing to admit he was wrong, or better yet, change his view of things as he understood more about the situation.
Now his "hot takes" are predictable because 90% of the time they are negative. So while I don't need a guy who is a fanboy,I also don't need to listen to predictable negative rants, particularly when they are oftentimes illogical and not supported by facts. Felger is better than that, or at least he used to be.
C'mon Rocco. Mike Russo?Rocco Graziosa said:
And I think it's all well in good that Mad Dog hated the Yankees. But two points on this his partner was a big Yankee fan and also during most of his run there the Giants and the Mets weren't great so Mets fans could appreciate his anti Yankee stuff. Seems to me both guys on F&M don't really like the Red Sox.
Love that Mazz, Mr. BBWAA, has taken so much time off during the baseball season. Rough life.
Nobody cares that Felger doesn't like the local teams. They care that he's become a lazy fuck who appeals to lowest-common-denominator grunt-and-holler listeners because he and Mazz can't really be bothered to present even half-serious arguments anymore.Rocco Graziosa said:
Anyone catch Wiggy having to phone into the show around 5:30 to apologize for his gay teammate remark?
also, the idea that Felger despises the Patriots is ludicrous. He may not love the team, but the team's success drives his own success on radio and on TV. If they sucked like the bills there wouldn't be near the audience he commands now.
also, the idea that Felger despises the Patriots is ludicrous. He may not love the team, but the team's success drives his own success on radio and on TV. If they sucked like the bills there wouldn't be near the audience he commands now.
Rocco Graziosa said:
Well then life must suck for Felger, cause right now across all 4 major sports the Boston teams are better run than in any other American city.
You enjoy foolishness for its own sake, and credit is due for owning up to it.
Does anyone here other than ForKeep think Mike Felger is dumb? Because I think you can call him a lot of negative things.......condescending, lazy, confrontational, ect ect but he's not stupid.
ForKeeps could you expound on your opinion of Felger? You post often about him, but your comments are very brief, and consist of nothing but insults. Do you listen to the show? If you listen to the show and think Mike Felger is dumb and uninformed, then I question why on earth you would be spending your time doing that. If you don't listen to the show.....well, then I'll take your opinion of it with a grain of salt.
ForKeeps could you expound on your opinion of Felger? You post often about him, but your comments are very brief, and consist of nothing but insults. Do you listen to the show? If you listen to the show and think Mike Felger is dumb and uninformed, then I question why on earth you would be spending your time doing that. If you don't listen to the show.....well, then I'll take your opinion of it with a grain of salt.
I don't put the blame on Felger. He is what he is, and I don't think it's much changed from a few years back. I put the blame on his partners, who rarely ever challenge him. (I know that's not a particularly hot take.) When Gasper is in and willing to go toe-to-toe, the show's pretty listenable.
Now, if Mazz and Beatle have lost their muster because arguing with Felger day-in day-out is exhausting (maybe he's a poor teammate?), there might be something there to criticize. But that's behind-the-scenes speculation. On the air, I certainly wouldn't say he's the problem.
Now, if Mazz and Beatle have lost their muster because arguing with Felger day-in day-out is exhausting (maybe he's a poor teammate?), there might be something there to criticize. But that's behind-the-scenes speculation. On the air, I certainly wouldn't say he's the problem.
Felger is most assuredly not dumb. He knows what sells/titillates (banal "hot takes" and shitting all over players and organization, primarily) and runs his show accordingly.Rocco Graziosa said:
Now the guy on before him (the one who does the "Oreos for breakfast!" ads) is dumb and completely lacks Felger's acumen as an entertainer.
Anybody catch the last hour or so. Marshall Hook, filling in on the flash, has been taking it right to Felgie on the "clutch" issue and not backing down, and its telling that the more Marshall (and Bertrand) counter Felger's arguments, the more of an obnoxious bully Felger turns into. Its no wonder someone like Mazz can't hang with him.
