Felger: Red Sox offered Mookie what he asked for, and were turned down

scottyno

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Wait - it was widely thought that the reason Mookie was traded was because of the luxury tax etc. and there were all kinds of leaks and sports radio segments devoted to alternately killing Sox or agreeing with them on this. What was the point of the leaks if they actually offered him what he wanted?
The tried to sign him, either to what he asked for or still a very fair offer, and when he passed on it and then they were able to work out deals with X and Sale then keeping Mookie became a luxury tax issue if they even thought they still had a good chance to keep him at that point. If Mookie had signed first then they probably trade X instead.

I think they're right that it's better for the media to call them cheap because there's no legitimate argument that ownership has been cheap at all since they took over the team, in fact the complete opposite.
 

mauf

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They hated him so much attendance went down for the 3 years before he owned the club and the 5 or 6 afterwards?
MLB per-game attendance dipped sharply in 2002 from 2001, dipped slightly again in 2003, then increased markedly each year from 2004 to 2007. I didn’t check the Dodgers’ attendance, but McCourt bought the club during the 2003-04 offseason, so if the Dodgers’ attendance figures are what you say they are, they prove the opposite point from what you’re implying.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Mookie prefers to be in LA rather than Boston. It's not the end of the world. It's not the Red Sox organization's fault. It's not your fault. It's not my fault. It's just the way Mookie feels. Good for him.
Haven’t followed this much here but I’m shocked that so many people don’t feel this way. Betts gave many signals in the yesr(s) prior to the trade that he wasn’t going to sign heee long term......and that’s ok. He is, by all accounts, a good guy who for whatever his reasons were did not want to be here. It could be climate, racial tension, not liking the accents/attitudes/negativity, or whatever. In the end it’s really none of our business where Betts prefers to work.
 

reggiecleveland

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Haven’t followed this much here but I’m shocked that so many people don’t feel this way. Betts gave many signals in the yesr(s) prior to the trade that he wasn’t going to sign heee long term......and that’s ok. He is, by all accounts, a good guy who for whatever his reasons were did not want to be here. It could be climate, racial tension, not liking the accents/attitudes/negativity, or whatever. In the end it’s really none of our business where Betts prefers to work.
I recruited college players for a long time. This is the type of thing where you wish the kid well and he goes where he wants. I for one want to just move on. I

Everything may be better at your school, playing time, academic programs, scholarship money, kid even likes you personally more than the other coach, but he thinks its too cold, or his girlfriend (who will dump him 2nd week of classes) goes to the other school, or the other place has one exhibition game in Gramma's home city.This drives lots of guys, me included to a certain extent, out of college coaching, if you can't handle that this happens it isn't the world for you.
 
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scottyno

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I mean, he was talking to sox legend and former sox teammate David Ortiz, of course he's not going to tell him "Yeah I wanted out of Boston for X and Y reasons" whether it's true or not there's no benefit to saying it
 

Sille Skrub

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I mean, he was talking to sox legend and former sox teammate David Ortiz, of course he's not going to tell him "Yeah I wanted out of Boston for X and Y reasons" whether it's true or not there's no benefit to saying it
It's ok to say the Red Sox absolutely screwed the pooch here. You can still be a fan.
 

sodenj5

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I mean, he was talking to sox legend and former sox teammate David Ortiz, of course he's not going to tell him "Yeah I wanted out of Boston for X and Y reasons" whether it's true or not there's no benefit to saying it
Exactly. He’s obviously still friendly with Ortiz. He isn’t going to insult him or the Red Sox. Of course he’s going to say, “yea, really thought I was going to be in Boston forever... by the way did you catch game 4 of the World Series? Wild stuff.”
 

Seels

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It's also okay to say they quite possibly did all the could. You can still buy a Sox cap.
They've no reason to be given the benefit of the doubt after the Tito Theo and Lester debacles. In an isolated event, I could forgive after a bit and move on. This isn't isolated.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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They've no reason to be given the benefit of the doubt after the Tito Theo and Lester debacles. In an isolated event, I could forgive after a bit and move on. This isn't isolated.
Meh. World Series titles since those "debacles" wipes them off the board for me. Their job is to win World Series. Paying Mookie Betts an insane amount of money to overcome his desire to play elsewhere doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
 

pk1627

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It's ok to say the Red Sox absolutely screwed the pooch here. You can still be a fan.
It’s also entirely possible to say this is neither the team’s nor Mookie’s fault. Boston has been a historically difficult place for a black athlete. The team has taken all sorts of steps, but who knows what Mookie has had to deal with in the outfield.

(well, I guess Adam Jones, Tori Hunter, David Price and JBJ know)
 

Sille Skrub

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It’s also entirely possible to say this is neither the team’s nor Mookie’s fault. Boston has been a historically difficult place for a black athlete. The team has taken all sorts of steps, but who knows what Mookie has had to deal with in the outfield.

(well, I guess Adam Jones, Tori Hunter, David Price and JBJ know)
Fair points. Hopefully someday in the distant future, we get the real story in a juicy, post-career money grab tell all book.
 
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Seels

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This fan base has gotten so entitled.
that's your take? Sorry but I'm not mad when they struggle over a season or a signing doesn't work out here or there. I'm mad when one of the wealthiest teams in professional sports can't keep a guy they brought up, and I don't find the argument that they gave a competitive offer a compelling one.

This team got years of me cheering on shitty teams with Jody Reed and Brian Daubauch. Have they been great (at times) under Henry? Sure. Have they done otherwise ridiculous shit? Yes. It's fair of me as a fan to want the franchise I root for to have less of the ridiculous stuff coming out of the front office -- that is not entitled.
 

Al Zarilla

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Unless he has a big “Mookie game” in one or two of the remaining WS games, he will have had another mediocre hitting post season. So far he’s channeling Barry Bonds and ARod as excellent to great regular season hitters who fell down in the post. Mookie is .252/.339/.381, OPS of .720 lifetime post season through Sunday’s game 5. That’s in 177 plate appearances, so, coming up on equivalent to about a third of a season. Is it possible that Sox management took this, his post season hitting, into account when coming up with salary considerations for him? Guess not because some are saying he was offered his asking price to stay by the Red Sox. Also, can his post season PA’s still be considered a bunch of SSS’s, so, irrelevant?
 

Kliq

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that's your take? Sorry but I'm not mad when they struggle over a season or a signing doesn't work out here or there. I'm mad when one of the wealthiest teams in professional sports can't keep a guy they brought up, and I don't find the argument that they gave a competitive offer a compelling one.

This team got years of me cheering on shitty teams with Jody Reed and Brian Daubauch. Have they been great (at times) under Henry? Sure. Have they done otherwise ridiculous shit? Yes. It's fair of me as a fan to want the franchise I root for to have less of the ridiculous stuff coming out of the front office -- that is not entitled.
There is also a lot of frustration that Fenway Park has been turned into an expensive tourist trap and largely priced out middle-class fans from attending games on a semi-regular basis. Now, part of that is a broader MLB/pro sports problem, but there is no denying FSG has wrung every single cent they could get out of the Red Sox and when you jack up ticket prices every year, fans' tolerance for a team not being able to pay top dollar for star players is going to be strained.
 

mauf

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Being upset a beloved player departed the team that drafted him and with which he was a championship is the very opposite of entitled. It's the "they can just plug anyone in there and keep winning" mentality that's the entitled one. "We'll just sign Gerrit Cole and Trevor Bauer, no problem."
The post he quoted basically says the club is badly run. I’d say having that opinion as a fan of a club that’s won 4 titles in 17 years counts as entitlement. They didn’t get those results without making hard choices, and they’re not going to get every decision right.
 

tims4wins

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The post he quoted basically says the club is badly run. I’d say having that opinion as a fan of a club that’s won 4 titles in 17 years counts as entitlement.
Nah, they just lucked into it with 3 different GMs and 3 different managers
 

Sausage in Section 17

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Meh. World Series titles since those "debacles" wipes them off the board for me. Their job is to win World Series. Paying Mookie Betts an insane amount of money to overcome his desire to play elsewhere doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
Right! The complaints about those guys leaving seemed to get drowned out by the cheers for WS wins. I actually like the world where Theo Epstein gets to lead the Cubs to a championship, and we win another two World Series after he leaves. This is not a problem.
 

Seels

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The post he quoted basically says the club is badly run. I’d say having that opinion as a fan of a club that’s won 4 titles in 17 years counts as entitlement. They didn’t get those results without making hard choices, and they’re not going to get every decision right.
I didn't state it was badly run. But the the FO runs the risk of upsetting fans when they do some of the things they've done in the last decade, even with the championships. Mookie, Tito, these guys were beloved figures that didn't leave on their own terms. The team isn't above making atrocious decisions that are bad the moment they are made, like Bobby Valentine, Pablo Sandoval, Carl Crawford, etc.
 

richgedman'sghost

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I didn't state it was badly run. But the the FO runs the risk of upsetting fans when they do some of the things they've done in the last decade, even with the championships. Mookie, Tito, these guys were beloved figures that didn't leave on their own terms. The team isn't above making atrocious decisions that are bad the moment they are made, like Bobby Valentine, Pablo Sandoval, Carl Crawford, etc.
You seem like the sort of entitled prick that gives Boston fans a bad name. Tito admitted in hindsight that he was burned out and probably needed a rest. One of the great sports minds has said that most coaches or managers have a limited shelf life, even the best ones. Tito wound up in Cleveland which was probably best for everyone.
Theo admitted he wanted a new challenge after his Red Sox won. What was a greater challenge than getting the Cubs to win a World Series after 100 plus years? By guiding the Red Sox And Cubs to titles, Theo has guaranteed his place in HOF. It worked out for him too.
On the flip slip, the Red Sox have won 4 division titles and 2 world series since those people left. It has been 9 years since Theo and Tito left. With the Red Sox success, why the heck won't you let it rest? Accept it and move on. You hold too many grudges. You are like my one uncle who has not talked to the rest of the family for 36 plus years.
 

Sausage in Section 17

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I didn't state it was badly run. But the the FO runs the risk of upsetting fans when they do some of the things they've done in the last decade, even with the championships. Mookie, Tito, these guys were beloved figures that didn't leave on their own terms. The team isn't above making atrocious decisions that are bad the moment they are made, like Bobby Valentine, Pablo Sandoval, Carl Crawford, etc.
I continue to believe that hiring Bobby V. wasn’t a bad thing, in fact was sort of required in that situation. It was clear that Tito had lost the reigns with some players, and there was a somewhat entitled attitude among some stars. It was time to clean house to a degree, and by hiring a strong counterpoint (in Bobby V.), they sent the message that it’s team (not stars) first around here. It seemed to have the effect of reminding players that we don’t have to have a player’s manager, and perhaps you took to much for granted.

And it worked. When they were only willing to give him a 2 year contract, I thought, “They’re just creating a transition, and this is the guy they want in the interim, not in the long run.”

The upper management team of the Boston Red Sox is the most successful in MLB since they took over, and couldn’t be a sharper contrast to their predecessors. In the old days, we never won shit, but at least we had Yaz, Rice, Williams, Dewey (almost), for their whole careers. I think you can focus on being successful, or sentimental, but to think you can have both is entitled.
 

scottyno

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that's your take? Sorry but I'm not mad when they struggle over a season or a signing doesn't work out here or there. I'm mad when one of the wealthiest teams in professional sports can't keep a guy they brought up, and I don't find the argument that they gave a competitive offer a compelling one.

This team got years of me cheering on shitty teams with Jody Reed and Brian Daubauch. Have they been great (at times) under Henry? Sure. Have they done otherwise ridiculous shit? Yes. It's fair of me as a fan to want the franchise I root for to have less of the ridiculous stuff coming out of the front office -- that is not entitled.
The fact that you added the "at times' part shows that yes you're massively entitled. Since Henry took over you can make the argument they've been the most successful team in baseball, and at worst they're probably second after having not been competitive for years before he bought the team.
 

TomBrunansky23

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Seels I don't want to make this personal to you. My angle on all this is that I too lived and died with some shitty teams over the last 35 years or so, so I will never ever take for granted winning a division, much less a world championship...or 4. (I do have to take up for Jody Reed and Brian Daubach...we had far worse over the years than these two. John Wasdin anyone?) Yankee fans in my neck of the woods seem to express the take that they have a divine right to win it all every year. As a Red Sox fan, I know better. I am just as interested in seeing if Chaim can execute a rebuilding plan as I would be to watch Mookie rake on mediocre teams for the next 1-4 years while we sort out how to build a team where 1/7 or so of the payroll is spoken for by one player. I'll miss Mookie, we all will, but the business of baseball goes on. This ownership group didn't owe it to me to bring him back, damn the consequences. They do owe it to us to lay out a plan to get back to relevance, and in my eyes, they have built up the credibility over the last 17 years for us to have faith that they can do it.
 

Salem's Lot

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There is also a lot of frustration that Fenway Park has been turned into an expensive tourist trap and largely priced out middle-class fans from attending games on a semi-regular basis. Now, part of that is a broader MLB/pro sports problem, but there is no denying FSG has wrung every single cent they could get out of the Red Sox and when you jack up ticket prices every year, fans' tolerance for a team not being able to pay top dollar for star players is going to be strained.
It costs a lot of money to go out in Boston. That’s why the prices are high. If player salaries were capped at $100k a year it would have no affect on ticket prices.