Female sports writers denied entry to locker room at Lucas Oil Stadium
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"Oh no, somebody made a mistake and I'm a psycho bitch so I'm going to make sure everyone knows he should be ashamed because I AM SO OFFENDED!!!!"
Graham Watson of Yahoo Sports, Joey Chandler of the Tuscaloosa News and the Tulsa World’s Katie McInerney
That's 2 dudes and a chick if you ask my caveman ass. I guess I can buy Joey because of the actress from chasing Amy, but Graham?
All joking aside, they should just be thankful when they finally got in there a whole 2 or 3 minutes later Donald sterling wasn't their guide to look at all the beautiful black bodies.
That's 2 dudes and a chick if you ask my caveman ass. I guess I can buy Joey because of the actress from chasing Amy, but Graham?
All joking aside, they should just be thankful when they finally got in there a whole 2 or 3 minutes later Donald sterling wasn't their guide to look at all the beautiful black bodies.
I've always been curious about this issue. What if male reporters wanted to go into a WNBA locker room? If a bunch of guys want to shower and get dressed without women hanging around that doesn't seem unreasonable.
I'm confused by the story, too. It seems - and I could be reading it wrong - like he was confused, and that even if he wasn't, both PR departments were appropriately apologetic and proactive about rectifying the situation. What am I missing?DrewDawg said:
P.S. Grew up on Free to be You and Me and raising my son in that spirit, too, so I'm not exactly a classic cave man about these sorts of things. I probably tend to overreact the other way. But this doesn't compute with me, at least not with the limited info I have as of now.
Edit: because autocorrect fucking SUCKS.
If a locker room were merely the place where players showered and dressed with no media present, men or women, then that that'd be fine. But for some reason decades ago it was decided that the locker room is where athletes talk to the media. So telling women they can't go in would be placing a very unfair obstacle to their doing their job.glennhoffmania said:
I assume female athlete locker rooms may be off limits for all media when players are showering and dressing.
But if you allow male reporters in to ask the players questions, that gives them an unearned advantage over female reporters.glennhoffmania said:
I'd be fine with not allowing any reporters in locker rooms. Give the players some time after a game to collect their thoughts. I can wait 30 minutes to hear whatever boring cliches the players are going to utter. But that's not the way the NFL wants things.
edit: What 8slim said.
What year was this a huge story in New England? I feel like it had to be mid eighties but that is the beginning of my solid memories
Edit I found some Lisa Olson thing in 1990 but I thought there was something well before that
Edit I found some Lisa Olson thing in 1990 but I thought there was something well before that
Nothing earlier, huh?8slim said:
I see 1990 is the same year Sam Wyche tried banning women.
I remember both these things but I was almost certain of where I was living when I had these memories and I'm wrong. I was already 11. I need some ginkgo biloba or something
Edit: okay, I'm seeing NFL did not do reporter equality until 1985 which means it was probably a big story that year which makes me feel less crazy.
This is what I was getting at with my post. I was probably too much of an asshole about it, though. Sorry.DrewDawg said:
Lose Remerswaal said:
I've been in NBA and WNBA locker rooms and I'm male. the difference is that the WNBA lockers open about 15 minutes later than the NBA locker rooms (to all media male and female) and the players are all mainly dressed at that point.
The point is that in both situations, the male and female reporters have the exact same access to players.
We live in the age of microaggression culture and tattletales. Your status is directly related to your victimhood.DrewDawg said:
EDIT: Looking at Graham's feed it appears that the locker room attendant was elderly and confused, which didn't stop them from tattling. The rudeness of microaggression culture is just flat out depressing.
I think they were trying to get into the Jags' locker room. If that's true, then it makes sense - the usher was probably told to keep the women out so that the Jags could finish doing whatever they needed to do to their kicker.
JimBoSox9 said:
It was better and quicker to the point than some of the other sources I found in a quick Google search.
This isn't about "only 2 or 3 minutes?!!?" or microaggression or whether the guy was elderly. This is SSDD for female reporters, and honestly I'm surprised there's any eye rolling coming from this site. "I'm sure you know how guys are, I'm just warning you," said to a group of accomplished professional reporters trying to enter a professional space to do their jobs? Seriously? Like they might get the vapors and need a fainting couch because they see a bare male ass or hear a naughty word?
"Microaggression" implies this is some tiny isolated thing, but it's not. It's as old as the profession. Women are treated terribly in sports journalism -- they still can't get into Augusta, for cripes sake. It's garbage behavior, even if its only two minutes long and coming from a doddering old fart, and anyone defending it has a problem.
"Microaggression" implies this is some tiny isolated thing, but it's not. It's as old as the profession. Women are treated terribly in sports journalism -- they still can't get into Augusta, for cripes sake. It's garbage behavior, even if its only two minutes long and coming from a doddering old fart, and anyone defending it has a problem.
As a person with elderly parents, I can tell you that terminal confusion isn't all that unusual. As it is, the offended parties themselves admit that the delay was a couple of minutes. This actually wasn't some earth shattering event. If they actually had been banned from the locker room I would have more sympathy. A few years ago people would have shrugged their shoulders at this, and yes, it would be far more polite than waving the victim flag.KenTremendous said:
Yeah, to me this is about some confused old dude and not the systemic sexism that woman have faced in the industry.
I had an old guy that was a greeter at Walmart that's open 24 hours a day tell me I had to leave because the store was closed. Getting old blows.
I had an old guy that was a greeter at Walmart that's open 24 hours a day tell me I had to leave because the store was closed. Getting old blows.
I'll never forget my father's first exposure to DVDs 14 years ago, when the movie was over and we popped the thing out of the player the first thing he said was "Aren't you supposed to rewind the film before you return it?" Once people pass 70 the cloudy days outnumber the sunny ones.DrewDawg said:
nighthob said:
Good gravy. It's not "waving the victim flag" to tweet out the fact that they are being treated badly. They weren't "woe is me"ing. They were calling bullshit -- which it was entirely appropriate to do, given the bullshit -- and they also then turned around and remarked that the organizations had handled it well post facto. Their restraint, all things considered, was admirable. If I were denied entry, to the place my employer required me to go, because I was a woman, by a misogynistic old turd who thought the sight of men grabassing would be too much for my delicate feminine sensibility to handle, I'd scream until glass shattered and then go full Keith Moon on whatever room I was in.
The problem with being aggrieved parties, like women in sports media, is that you have two choices: just grit your teeth and deal with it, or raise your voice and have people call you victims and whiners and complainers. Gritting teeth didn't work for the first like 100 years, so now they're getting tough, as they should, and when they do they are greeted with a bunch of people calling them victims and microaggressors and psycho bitches. Which, again, is nonsense. They were treated badly, so we should all say "That sucks that they were treated badly."
And again, it doesn't matter that the guy was old. It would be worse if he were young, but old age does not absolve you of the responsibility to treat people fairly. And if he is so old that he can't understand the basic rules of fairness and propriety, the team should have shuffled him into retirement already.
If you guys don't think old and out of touch geezers aren't a source of legitimate and often significant annoyance and even problems for modern professional women, then I don't know what to tell you.
I mean, did everyone read the tweets or are people just conjecturing? It's not like the women involved didn't understand that this is what it was. It's that they were pissed off about it. Time has a good presentation of the twitter feeds here (SoSH will only print a couple of tweets and it scans better when you see them all together.).
I mean, is there anything to disagree with here?
This notion that women should basically be used to it isn't a real strong position either. There's a real irony to the outrage over the purported microaggression outrage.
I mean, did everyone read the tweets or are people just conjecturing? It's not like the women involved didn't understand that this is what it was. It's that they were pissed off about it. Time has a good presentation of the twitter feeds here (SoSH will only print a couple of tweets and it scans better when you see them all together.).
I mean, is there anything to disagree with here?
This notion that women should basically be used to it isn't a real strong position either. There's a real irony to the outrage over the purported microaggression outrage.
There is no Rev said:
In Graham Watson's entire career she has been delayed entering a locker room, one single time. So as of yesterday morning it had never happened once. Like her I'd be annoyed but hopefully she'll be able to let it go due to it being an "old geezer" who made the mistake.
They are a source of annoyance for everyone. Which is sort of the point. If the old guy knew anything about social media he'd be crying "age aggression". But that's the thing with the elderly. In the real world it actually wasn't a big deal because the elderly usher actually asked the locker room, and someone came out and said "Yes, let them in." Believe me, actually having been on the wrong side of actual discrimination, I'd prefer this sort of thing.There is no Rev said:
The abuse heaped on women sports reporters is so ridiculous and extensive that they are going to be sensitive to anything perceived as a slight. If you don't understand what women sportswriters have to put up with, read this.
This isn't Ron Borges whining about not getting answers from BB. This is a woman being concerned that a long pattern of disrespect and sexism might be continuing. If you do not expose this kind of thing to daylight, it'll just fester. I'll bet every NFL team does a better job briefing their stadium employees about locker room access after this, which is a good thing.
This isn't Ron Borges whining about not getting answers from BB. This is a woman being concerned that a long pattern of disrespect and sexism might be continuing. If you do not expose this kind of thing to daylight, it'll just fester. I'll bet every NFL team does a better job briefing their stadium employees about locker room access after this, which is a good thing.
I thought you you were aware of me, apparently not. Before sexual preference was universally recognised as a form of discrimination mine has resulted in being passed over for promotion by companies run by people from my father's generation not comfortable with "men like me". Believe me, I would far prefer that those guys had asked someone else for advice and then promoted me according to my abilities when someone had said said "It's 1998, let's not make a big deal out of who he's living with."There is no Rev said:
nighthob said:
I would--and will--gladly argue against anyone who claimed the discrimination you experienced were not real or harmful as well.
And I would similarly discourage anyone from disparaging such experiences in this forum as well. I just don't want to create a hierarchy of grievances; injustice is injustice. Certainly some are more severe, but I don't see that as a reason not to resist injustice in all its manifestations, yeah?
There is no Rev said:
I didn't see where she said that she put it behind her. I guess we'll know for sure when we see whether she accepts any more media face time about the "incident".
DrewDawg said:
(1) What's the more effective path to ensure that this doesn't happen again: (A) mentioning it on Twitter or (B) privately mentioning it to the team.
(2) Was the old guy named anywhere? Did they demand he lose his job? Everything I saw suggested that they were unhappy that a team employee was discriminating against them and said so. I find it hard to believe there are people that feel that the guy refusing to let women into the locker room should have had his feelings spared. Talk about blaming the victims - sheesh.
I think it's safe to say that the old guy didn't typically work outside the locker rooms, given he stated he didn't know who was allowed in and this hasn't happened there before, right?
And is it also safe to assume that 99% of men's locker rooms in this country only allow access to one gender? I've personally never been in a woman's locker room or been in a men's locker room and seen women walking around.
Do you and I know that women are allowed into an NFL locker room? Yes. Does everyone know that? I doubt it. I'm not talking about having an opinion on it, merely if they are aware that is allowed.
It's possible that the guy was just an old misogynist who thought women shouldn't get equal access or couldn't handle the sight of a naked man without fainting. It's also entirely possible, and in my opinion more likely given what transpired after, that he was unsure if women in the locker room would be a privacy violation for the players and had to ask someone before letting them in. Like probably every other locker room he'd have ever encountered in his life.
I'm not saying women don't have to face discrimination. I've seen plenty of it. I just think in this case it sounds like ignorance on the part of an old man.
And is it also safe to assume that 99% of men's locker rooms in this country only allow access to one gender? I've personally never been in a woman's locker room or been in a men's locker room and seen women walking around.
Do you and I know that women are allowed into an NFL locker room? Yes. Does everyone know that? I doubt it. I'm not talking about having an opinion on it, merely if they are aware that is allowed.
It's possible that the guy was just an old misogynist who thought women shouldn't get equal access or couldn't handle the sight of a naked man without fainting. It's also entirely possible, and in my opinion more likely given what transpired after, that he was unsure if women in the locker room would be a privacy violation for the players and had to ask someone before letting them in. Like probably every other locker room he'd have ever encountered in his life.
I'm not saying women don't have to face discrimination. I've seen plenty of it. I just think in this case it sounds like ignorance on the part of an old man.
nattysez said:
This was a really good read, thanks for posting it. It provides plenty of context for the Lucas Oil locker room situation. There's a lot of manufactured outrage in the world nowadays that can obscure legitimate grievances like this. Chances are the usher in question probably thought he was doing a good thing, maybe even a chivalrous thing, based on the values he grew up with. In a perfect world he gets a gentle course correction and the awareness spreads.